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<DocScrutinizer05>
also I didn't plan to check all possible numbers from 000 to 999. I only planned to check a few 114 etc numbers
<DocScrutinizer05>
I _know_ 112 and 110 works
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm pretty sure not much else will, though
<DocScrutinizer05>
0800 should work
<DocScrutinizer05>
the funny detail that's caused by historical reasons is: there's no end-of-number marker of any kind in POTS. Not even in ISDN. The network needs to check for a valid number after each single digit you entered
<DocScrutinizer05>
there's a certain short delay before such check happens (to reduce workload on the network infra), so for a valid number 123 you actually _can_ get a "invalid number" signal when you enter 1234 fast enough
<DocScrutinizer05>
on some exchange infra. Not on other type of infra
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<Oksana>
Gerry is silent. SIM holder for N950 did not arrive yet.
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<edwin1>
how is battery life going to be for Neo900? I see 1320mAh in the feasibility study but not on the specs page, but of course what I'm really interested in is standby time on 2G/3G. Is it possible to estimate that based on the modem or is it highly dependent on the network operator/signal strenght etc.?
<DocScrutinizer05>
both
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
standby time should be around same as fro N900
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<edwin1>
is it possible to fit a different/larger battery or given the space constraints thats the best battery you can get?
<mvaenskae>
DocScrutinizer05: what sim format are you incorporating btw?
<mvaenskae>
edwin1: if you get a custom enclousure you should be able to fit in a larger battery i reckon; the n900 had some large batteries with extra covers; maybe you can procur one of those somewhere
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<DocScrutinizer05>
edwin1: unless you use a mugen battery cover, you hardly will find a better battery fitting in
<DocScrutinizer05>
mvaenskae: ((SIM)) the original one of course :-)
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<edwin1>
hmm I don't suppose you'll have much control on how (often) the modem scans/switches between networks? whenever I'm in roaming my battery life is very bad and it is switching networks quite often
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<edwin1>
as long as I'm not in a call I wouldn't care if it keeps the same network I'm already registered on even if it has 1 "bar"s strenght and the other one would have 3
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, no, not much control of how modem works, except the usual selection of "band" (aka 2G/3G/LTE)
<DocScrutinizer05>
and yes, modem searching for 3G stations all the time, while in a region with poor coverage and only a 2G station available, that costs some battery. You however can select "2G only" in that case
<DocScrutinizer05>
starseeker: welcome! thanks for your interest in CAD (spacerframe), and Neo900 in general! :-)
<kerio>
wait, how's 1320mAh the battery
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<DocScrutinizer05>
huh?
<kerio>
aren't they ~1500 nowadays?
<DocScrutinizer05>
whatever they are
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's BL-5J formfactor
<edwin1>
ebay says there is a 2500mAh, photo has a bunch of chinese writing on it so I can't tell if its a fake
<DocScrutinizer05>
HAH! I just unboxed that 50 bucks "huge set of spare parts for N900" from ebay. One of the 5 batteries is a Polarcell
<kerio>
yay :3
<DocScrutinizer05>
fair deal, indeed
<DocScrutinizer05>
(the set)
<edwin1>
hmm I was thinking that I could use something like airplane mode to save battery during times of day I don't want to receive calls anyway (i.e. deep asleep), but it would be annoying having to re-enter the PIN code every morning. Is there some mode that saves power on the modem (almost off but not quite) and doesn't require to re-enter a PIN to come out of it?
<DocScrutinizer05>
on N900 you don't have to enter PIN after airplane->normal
<DocScrutinizer05>
can even be scheduled by e.g. alarmed app
<edwin1>
cool, one more reason to look forward for Neo900 then :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
nonetheless you usually want to use the time while you're sleeping to charge the phone, not to let it sit and idle, saving some battery by going airplane-mode ;-)
<edwin1>
yeah I usually do, but not everyday
<DocScrutinizer05>
you must be using a featurephone :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
none of the smartphone users I know would think of not charging their device at least once a day
<edwin1>
well tbh I don't use my phone that much (HTC Hero), the software is outdated, the applications I would want to run slow so I'm just waiting for something better to buy. meantime I use (and discharge a lot) my tablet
<kerio>
i survive with charging my n900 once every two days
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually N900 can stay idle (even with online mode) for several days, given you shut down all services that need internet connectivity, or you use WLAN for that
<edwin1>
if WiFi is on then its true it doesn't last much more than a day
<DocScrutinizer05>
N900 with wifi and IRC on survives much more than a day
<DocScrutinizer05>
N900 with Wifi and only a ssh but no IRC survives almost a week
<DocScrutinizer05>
(only on decent WLAN AP that supports PSM)
<edwin1>
thats quite decent
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<edwin1>
is the modem/CPU separation going to help in terms of battery life?
<DocScrutinizer05>
and it's always 'active' during that, means even via WLAN you can send commands and receive STDOUT any time, without lag
<edwin1>
I mean can you put the CPU in a deeper sleep state than on other SoCs where modem integration is more tight?
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, in terms of battery usage the separation is prolly irrelevant
<edwin1>
does the CPU have to stay on?
<DocScrutinizer05>
with a tendency to rather be a disadvantage
<edwin1>
or can it just wake like every second or so to check for calls?
<DocScrutinizer05>
the CPU on N900 is in zeroclock aka stop mode 99% of the time
<edwin1>
ah ok, can it be like that in neo900 too?
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's the 2trick" of maemo
<DocScrutinizer05>
s/2/"/
<DocScrutinizer05>
of course, Neo900 will work exactly same way
<edwin1>
nice. I should probably read up on the features of N900 to get a better idea of what Neo900 be like. Never used a phone with maemo, it was featurephones and then android for me
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually that's been one of the main arguments why we stay compatible to N900 so we can use maemo and profit from the awesome energy savings measures
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<edwin1>
eh, I hope I'll still be able to dual-boot it with whatever else is compatible if there is enough room
<edwin1>
can you boot from eMMC or only NAND?
<DocScrutinizer05>
unlike virually any other phone OS, maemo allows true multitasking and always active, thanks to OMAP's bunch of power saving measures called "SmartReflex" which don't need any suspending of CPU
<DocScrutinizer05>
we will configure the device to boot from all sources that make any sense, so of course also eMMC and uSD
<DocScrutinizer05>
and of course you can multiboot as many OS flavors as you manage to put on the device
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<edwin1>
512 MB NAND + 64 GB eMMC + external <- I don't know much about eMMC, but is that 64GB the maximum capacity supported, or will it actually ship as such?
<DocScrutinizer05>
(which should be quite a few, with a at very least 32GB of eMMC)
<DocScrutinizer05>
eMMC is soldered to the device, and we'll go for the maximum feasible and reasonable at time of production
<DocScrutinizer05>
prolly 64GB
<kerio>
why the NAND?
<DocScrutinizer05>
why not?
<DocScrutinizer05>
it seems there are few PoP chips that come without NAND anyway
<edwin1>
so will the NAND hold things like the bootloader, recovery (thinking in terms of android don't know about maemo), efs and the eMMC the OS and data?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
up to you
<kerio>
surely it'll hold the bootloader
<DocScrutinizer05>
surely it will hold *one* bootloader, initially
<kerio>
can ROMBL boot from something else
<DocScrutinizer05>
you're free to place the bootloader to eMMC or uSD and nuke the one on NAND
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<quatrox>
Hello guys. Is it too late to make a donation for securing a device?
<kerio>
neat
<DocScrutinizer05>
quatrox: not at all
<quatrox>
Perfect
<DocScrutinizer05>
however note that we're about to change the minimum amount we need, since we already start sourcing components
<DocScrutinizer05>
IOW you should already consider a higher down payment than 100
<edwin1>
could you recommend some resources (wiki, forum, etc.) that describe how N900/Maemo is different from Android (like this trick with power saving you mentioned). I mean is there a 'Introduction to maemo for android converts'? :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
we plan to source the 1GB RAM chips, some LEDs, and a few more chips and parts that might be tricky to source during short time when production finally starts
<DocScrutinizer05>
edwin1: I'm afraid nothing really good like this is avalable
<DocScrutinizer05>
generally talk.maemo.org and wiki.maemo.org are nice places to browse
<edwin1>
k
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess a /join #maemo will be the right thing to do, when you want to learn about maemo
<DocScrutinizer05>
then just ask, they are usually a nice bunch, unless you picked a time of day where just some few trolls are active
<edwin1>
good point, will wait until I have a device to try it out on though
<quatrox>
DocScrutinizer05: How much should I donate now in order to secure a complete device? 300 Euro or more?
<DocScrutinizer05>
300 sounds pretty good :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually "complete device" means we also want to source the "mech" parts like case, slider, LCD and so on. which will add another 100EUR on our own bill of materials
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<DocScrutinizer05>
unless you have a N900 to do the mainboard swap
<DocScrutinizer05>
in which case you don't need all those mech parts
<edwin1>
what technology is used for screen dimming? my galaxy tab 3 seems to use some PWM that hurts my eye when brightness is on auto setting or when running very low on battery. Some LED monitor manufacturers advertise flicker-free (e.g. Benq), but I don't know if any of the smartphone touchscreens have that, or what N900 has.
<edwin1>
if its PWM can it be made high-enough frequency so I don't notice it?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't know what makes your eyes hurt
<edwin1>
the flicker is quite visible, I'd guess 10-20 Hz or so
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually I don't know the frequency the PWM is done, would be interesting to check that
<edwin1>
but only on my tablet
<DocScrutinizer05>
(it's done by the LCD controller chip)
<edwin1>
that old phone is fine
<edwin1>
also another tablet (iPad2) is fine too
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess that 20Hz must be a hw defect
<DocScrutinizer05>
some LED drivers sometimes have that problem of getting instable and thus oscillating aka flickering
<kerio>
you've literally spent more CPU time of your brain thinking about this optimization that you will EVER gain
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's not meant to optimize CPU time :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
but it conventiemtly gets rif of said display shit ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
conveniently gets rid
<DocScrutinizer05>
though I kinda liked that "shit"
<DocScrutinizer05>
but now that it's evaluated and works and I know the scope is 3 times as fast when in STOP mode, I prolly don't have a use for it anymore
<DocScrutinizer05>
cya peeps, time to check if the huricane blew away Nuremberg
<DocScrutinizer05>
or just me ;-P
<ds2>
isn't it too cold to have hurricanes up there?
<DocScrutinizer05>
HAH! we wll have up to 18(!!) centigrade tomorrow
<DocScrutinizer05>
nice winter, eh?
<DocScrutinizer05>
~weather eddn
<infobot>
Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2015.01.09 2250 UTC; Dew Point: 48 F (9 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.97 in. Hg (1015 hPa); Relative Humidity: 100%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 48 F (9 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Weather: Light rain; Wind: from the WSW (250 degrees) at 15 MPH (13 KT)
<ds2>
isn't that pretty cold?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd be happy with our summers having no less than 18°C
* ds2
digs out the calculator
<ds2>
oh 64F...n/m
<DocScrutinizer05>
~18 degC to degF
<ds2>
that's like here
<DocScrutinizer05>
~convert 18 degC to degF
<infobot>
18 degC is approximately 32.4 degF
<ds2>
uh....
<ds2>
if infobot is right, that is pretty damn cold
<DocScrutinizer05>
dunno, the bot had many bugs particularly in that function
<ds2>
but IIRC, 32+(9*degC/5) is the formula
<ds2>
i think it forgot to add 32
<DocScrutinizer05>
~convert 88 degC to degF
<infobot>
88 degC is approximately 158.4 degF
<ds2>
~convert 100 degC to degF
<infobot>
100 degC is approximately 180 degF
<ds2>
infobot is broken
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah
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<DocScrutinizer05>
~convert 0 degC to degK
<infobot>
0 degC is approximately 0 degK
<ds2>
hahahahahahaha
<ds2>
the folks making liquid He would love to hear that :D
<DocScrutinizer05>
indeed ;-D
<DocScrutinizer05>
I however wonder what the outside would look like during winter then
<DocScrutinizer05>
seas of liquid air, no atmosphere