DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #neo900 to: http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ and http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900
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<Oksana> Moin. Any progress with prototypes?
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<bencoh> "lol"
<mvaenskae> bencoh: i thought they finally realized sharing main memory with the baseband was a bad idea
<mvaenskae> but then just a simple code bug D:
<bencoh> same here :)
<mvaenskae> welp, let them have their wonderful android phones :)
<mvaenskae> i wonder how many blackphone users will just install their usual goto apps and thereby render the blackphone idea useless anyways :)
<bencoh> they'll probably end up with whatsapp, or telegram for the more adventurous :p
<DocScrutinizer05> sorry for silence, still sick
<bencoh> aww, get well :)
<mvaenskae> DocScrutinizer05: i hope you will be getting better soon :o
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, I'm arguing with that damn virus every day. Also with my own evil mood that blocks me from e.g. contacting at least a dentist, so no more toothache on top of the flu
<mvaenskae> what are you battling?
<mvaenskae> bencoh: i was more thinking along the lines of the flashlight app that requires full system permissions ;)
<DocScrutinizer05> flu with a nice little tooth problem in the company. Or the other way around
<mvaenskae> D: not cool
<bencoh> mvaenskae: :]
<DocScrutinizer05> never know if my headache and paralyzed brain is caused by tooth or fever
<bencoh> sneaky
<mvaenskae> bencoh: aka google services framework ;)
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<DocScrutinizer05> (blackphone) I'm not sure the default install/config allows installing android apps from those common appshops
<DocScrutinizer05> but the bug is pathetic
<mvaenskae> that might be true but iirc you can get root-perms on it and thereby installing another app-store should be possible
<DocScrutinizer05> sure
<DocScrutinizer05> the silent circle guys obviously thought security concerns start outside of own system
<mvaenskae> type confusion happens quite often i feel... if there were smart compilers to warn coders of possible type errors...
<DocScrutinizer05> I mean, a silly not-even-buffer-overflow but simple negligence to sanitize/rangecheck inbound data type flags (aiui)
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<DocScrutinizer05> I admit twinklephone (that part not designed or written by me) also is highly, even extremely, vulnerable to shellshock type env var exploits, and I didn't notice the problem when reviewing it back when. Hey it's a 8(?) years in the past
<mvaenskae> twinklephone?
<DocScrutinizer05> the industry lab standard state of the art SIP softphone
<DocScrutinizer05> used by many SIP providers to test their infra
<DocScrutinizer05> and by a lot of callcenters, it seems
<DocScrutinizer05> I helped with development, particularly with the scripting hooks
<DocScrutinizer05> and with I18N
<DocScrutinizer05> German translation is by me
<DocScrutinizer05> some maybe 30% of scripting concept are by me
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<DocScrutinizer05> ooh, forgot a tiny bit of ALSA debugging I did as well
<DocScrutinizer05> ooh, CLI UI
<DocScrutinizer05> actually the CLI is probably still unique
<DocScrutinizer05> (vulnerable) http://mfnboer.home.xs4all.nl/twinkle/manual.html#script_environment sorry the link doesn't work as expected, thanks to xs4all crappy website
<DocScrutinizer05> hah, reviews date back to 2005, so 10 years
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<DocScrutinizer05> real fun when IRC chanops go mad and refuse to listen to polite concerns about their ways to "moderate" and administrate channels
<DocScrutinizer05> :-S
<DocScrutinizer05> honestly, I never before heard that some chanop claimed he *needed* to use /msg chanserv akick *.<isp>
<DocScrutinizer05> and then even reacting with an explicit STFU when trying to discuss better ways to handle the problem than just enforcing ban without exempts on a whole ISP network
<DocScrutinizer05> suggestion to innocent users who happen to be on same ISP: "get a cloak!" OMG!
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<mvaenskae> wait, some freenode chanop kicked a whole ISP out?
<DocScrutinizer05> banned, yes
<mvaenskae> that's pretty bad
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, and he banned me for telling him
<mvaenskae> i hope he angers some other chanop in the process
<DocScrutinizer05> I doubt, he's chan founder
<mvaenskae> hmpf, may i ask what channel?
<DocScrutinizer05> "I asked the VUA's and they said just 'thanks', so this discussion end here"
<DocScrutinizer05> guess what channel ;-)
<mvaenskae> ubuntu?
<DocScrutinizer05> #debianfork and #devuan
<mvaenskae> devuan?! are they mad? they need everyone interested in their cause
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, of course
<DocScrutinizer05> poor coagen is massively floored on the task
<mvaenskae> welp, that's how to get people to use systemd-debian
<DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/92533872 X-D
<mvaenskae> VUA == duaVUAners?
<mvaenskae> VUA == virtually useless associate?
<DocScrutinizer05> Veteran Unix Admins, coagen is none of them evidently
<DocScrutinizer05> he's no veteran chanop either ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> I offered to help, two times, which been rejected with a "no thanks"
<DocScrutinizer05> I don't mind, he thinks he knows his stuff. But I probably am too dull to understand why you need to use chanserv akick
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<mvaenskae> what is a veteran unix admin? i never heard of such a title
<DocScrutinizer05> never seen any chanop using it
<mvaenskae> until now :)
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, he prolly learned about that command a week ago
<DocScrutinizer05> and now thinks it's 1337 shite ;-P
<mvaenskae> well, better not join them then :)
<DocScrutinizer05> -NickServ- Registered : Oct 02 00:09:25 2005 (9y 17w 1d ago)
<DocScrutinizer05> I don't get it
<mvaenskae> so let's maybe not promote devuan on the neo900 :)
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<DocScrutinizer05> it's a pity the VUAs don't care or even know much about IRC it seems.
<mvaenskae> let's just go full blown gentoo, the easiest to manage anyways as we will need make everything from sauce ;)
<bencoh> and emerge on device, yay
<bencoh> (thx but no thx :p)
<DocScrutinizer05> actually here's a more comprehensive copy of #devuan channel http://paste.opensuse.org/29416266 . The real action however obviously happened on #debianfork
<DocScrutinizer05> first troll, first epic fail of chan administration. A week before they stated they don't need any help ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> *shrug*
<DocScrutinizer05> o/ back to bed
<Wizzup> mvaenskae: gentoo yay ;)
<mvaenskae> bencoh: we can alwaus create a binhost on gentoo or distcc with crossdev ;)
<mvaenskae> also it isn't too bad, just 6h for a kernel \o/
<Wizzup> mvaenskae: that long? kernel compiles should be <1 hour on a 1ghz
<Wizzup> I guess if you have slow storage...
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<bencoh> Wizzup: on arm ?
<Wizzup> yes
<Wizzup> Maybe if you're compiling the debian kernel, then not
<Wizzup> They're too '=m' happy
<mvaenskae> Wizzup: i was refering to a hardened kernel with a couple of modules :)
<Wizzup> But I have a lot of arm devices, many 1Ghz or less, and kernel compiles don't take too long
<Wizzup> mvaenskae: ah, I do that much faster on a single 1ghz arm device
<mvaenskae> Wizzup: i assume the neo900 might have to do some thermal throttling tough
<Wizzup> possible
<Wizzup> regardless, you can just cross compile
<Wizzup> no need for distcc, or anything
<Wizzup> Or just compile on a different armv7 device
<Wizzup> They're plenty powerful ones
<mvaenskae> so you are compiling on armv7?
<Wizzup> there are*
<Wizzup> yes
<mvaenskae> the neo900 is armv6 ;)
<Wizzup> ow
<Wizzup> my bad
<mvaenskae> or is it?... i think it still is
<Wizzup> I thought it was armv7
<DocScrutinizer05> thermal throttling? I hope not :-o
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<mvaenskae> oh, pardon :o the ti dm3730 is armv7 :p
<mvaenskae> :o
<mvaenskae> i am a big dum dum for mixing that up
<DocScrutinizer05> meh!
<mvaenskae> DocScrutinizer05: it is armv7, correct?
<DocScrutinizer05> I'm admiring people who got the faintest clue about that maze that is ARM labels
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, correct
<mvaenskae> Wizzup: i was totally wrong, pardon my lack of knowledge :)
<Wizzup> :)
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway as long as you **got enough RAM**, compiling should neither take ages nor eat that much energy so the device would heat up unreasonably
<mvaenskae> is armv8 backwards compatible to armv7?
<DocScrutinizer05> there my own clue about that maze already ends
<Wizzup> mvaenskae: btw, if you think HAM was slow, then just think about emerge
<Wizzup> It sounds nice for playing around / testing
<Wizzup> Not for 'end users', if that's what you may be aiming at
<Wizzup> (I actually have quite a few arm devices that are self-updating with emerge, using binhost, updates still take quite some time)
<DocScrutinizer05> (v8) but I *guess* that v8 should know how to run v7 code
<DocScrutinizer05> would be weird to drop opcodes, they usually don't do that for newer models in a series of CPUs
<DocScrutinizer05> I mean, you frequently need those functions provided by those opcodes anyway
<mvaenskae> good :)
<mvaenskae> then i will wait for armv8 to arrive before acquiring another arm board (thoroughly disappointed by my pi)
<mvaenskae> DocScrutinizer05: indeed, the correct ressource would be arm.com :)
<kerio> buy an ALIX board
<mvaenskae> i was just wondering if someone already looked that up so that i can get the information possibly quicker ;)
<kerio> nice, low-power x86s
<mvaenskae> kerio: i still have an atom netbook i can recycle as a nice 'server'
<DocScrutinizer05> lemme guess: AArch32 is compatible to ARMv7
<DocScrutinizer05> wild guessing
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<DocScrutinizer05> here you are (I think): http://www.arm.com/files/downloads/ARMv8_Architecture.pdf
<mvaenskae> kerio: thanks though for showing me alix; i think their apu counterparts make great routers :o
<DocScrutinizer05> Enhancement to the AArch32 functionality
<DocScrutinizer05>  Relatively small scale additions reflecting demand
<DocScrutinizer05>  Maintaining full compatibility with ARMv7
<Wizzup> nice
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<mvaenskae> DocScrutinizer05: thank you very much :) then i will wait for armv8 boards :)
<DocScrutinizer05> yw :-)
<kerio> mvaenskae: yep
<kerio> they run openbsd :3
<mvaenskae> kerio: i would put gentoo on it ;)
<kerio> fu
<kerio> :v
<DocScrutinizer05> mvaenskae: actually I looked up ARMv8 board a few days ago and pasted some URLs in here
<mvaenskae> DocScrutinizer05: that will make compiling for the neo900 much easier i think; especially as they will likely be multicore and therefore having much more performance than the neo900 :)
<kerio> DocScrutinizer05: pls armv8 neo900
<mvaenskae> kerio: what's bad with putting gentoo on it? i know gentoo the best :)
<kerio> with 32gb of ram
<DocScrutinizer05> *sigh*
<Wizzup> mvaenskae: no one will stop you from doing that
<kerio> mvaenskae: gentoo had more than 2 remote holes in the default install in a heck of a long time!
<Wizzup> I may attempt it as well
<Wizzup> ah, oft repeated openbsd fallacies ;)
<DocScrutinizer05> mvaenskae: yes, a compiler should provide genuine armv7 target arch on a armv8 machine
<kerio> Wizzup: nah we're talking about alix boards for routers
<Wizzup> ahhh
<Wizzup> ok
<kerio> yes, "fallacies"
<mvaenskae> kerio: mind pointing me to reports? i would like to check if i have unknown holes :)
<kerio> except that i never get a link to a CVE for a remote-exploitable third bug
<kerio> mvaenskae: it's mostly tongue-in-cheek
<Wizzup> (exactly)
<DocScrutinizer05> may I quote "i would like to check if i have unknown holes" ? ;-D
<kerio> ROFL
<kerio> i wasn't even thinking about that
<mvaenskae> DocScrutinizer05: are you searching for the links currently? (else i will look for them) :)
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<DocScrutinizer05> yes, searching
<DocScrutinizer05> [2015-01-16 Fri 22:04:30] <DocScrutinizer05> anyway https://www.google.de/search?q=cortex-a53+eval+board&prmd=ivns&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:y&sa=X&ei=sHy5VLy2L4WqPJXxgWA&ved=0CA8QpwU
<mvaenskae> kerio: why would you recommend openbsd for a router btw?
<DocScrutinizer05> [2015-01-16 Fri 21:47:53] <DocScrutinizer05> mvaenskae: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:c8vTNipUmAQJ:https://www.apm.com/products/data-center/x-gene-family/x-c1-development-kits/%2BAppliedMicro+X-C1+first+64bit+ARMv8+development+board+available+now&gws_rd=cr&hl=en&&ct=clnk
<kerio> because in spite of all the naysayers, the default install *is* pretty fucking secure
<kerio> even if it mostly does nothing
<kerio> but pf is there
<kerio> and openssh is there
<kerio> and that's pretty much all you need for a router
<mvaenskae> the cortex a57 would be nicer to have :)
<DocScrutinizer05> I guess you know how to tweak the google searchstring ;)
<mvaenskae> kerio: i never said i despise openbsd, i just said i was more comfortable with gentoo :)
<mvaenskae> DocScrutinizer05: <dau>how do you do that?</dau> (just kidding :D)
<kerio> eeh i dunno
<kerio> gentoo stage3 has a whole toolkit
<kerio> *toolchain
<mvaenskae> DocScrutinizer05: sadly they don't seem to be selling single-devices :/
<mvaenskae> kerio: you can always remove it and it won't complain ;)
<freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: I know you're ill, but a question I think is important just popped in my head: have you ever though what bootloader Neo900 will use? as AFAIC one can't boot unsigned secondary loader on HS device
<freemangordon> *AFAIK
<mvaenskae> welp, the second link is seriously expensive D:
<DocScrutinizer05> well, Neo900 is no HS device
<mvaenskae> HS?
<freemangordon> GP?
<freemangordon> oh, ok
<DocScrutinizer05> I just discussed that with vakkov yesterday
<vakkov> today *
<DocScrutinizer05> see, my brain is porridge
<mvaenskae> kerio: you posting those low-power boards is really great though; finally i have a hardware source for possible router hardware
<mvaenskae> freemangordon: what is "HS"/"GP" refering to? :)
<kerio> mvaenskae: alternatively, buy a dreamplug
<DocScrutinizer05> High Security, General_Purpose(?)
<kerio> aka shitty armv5 board with two gigE
<DocScrutinizer05> TrustZone, M-Shield, that stuff
<DocScrutinizer05> also Aegis, sort of
<mvaenskae> kerio: armv5? no kthxbai x)
<kerio> but it needs to route shit
<kerio> and that's it
<kerio> the one i have is happily routing warez and pr0n to a usb HD via bittorrent
<kerio> surely running a network is less taxing
<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: right?
<freemangordon> yep
<DocScrutinizer05> 3430 vs 3530, and 3630 vs 3730
<freemangordon> I forgtot Neo900 wil use only the memory from N9, not the whole core
<freemangordon> *forgot
<DocScrutinizer05> :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, N9 using OMAP3630, Neo900: DM3730
<DocScrutinizer05> iirc
<Pali> what is difference between omap and dm?
<DocScrutinizer05> err, dunno, prolly nottin
<DocScrutinizer05> DM* is the version for the plebs
<DocScrutinizer05> or sth like that
<Pali> so only different name
<DocScrutinizer05> aiui yes
<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: vakkov and me concluded RAM init is done in x-loader and might get locked after x-loader finishes. What's your info on that? Could RAM init get done again in NOLO/uBoot (3rd stage)?
<DocScrutinizer05> (on HS)
<Pali> nolo has code for ram init
<DocScrutinizer05> \o/
<Pali> but no idea if it will work in kernel/nolo which is not signed
<Pali> err. I wanted to say uboot
<Pali> not nolo
<DocScrutinizer05> "our" NOLO isn't signed, you can patch it
<Pali> we do not know if that code for ram init does not have to be signed
<Pali> like L3 firewall configuration
<DocScrutinizer05> actually I wonder if not even GP chips need a signed x-loader, just that the signing key is "public"
<Pali> not crypto signed
<Pali> just some xorg or what is used
<Pali> *xor
<Pali> looks interesting...
<DocScrutinizer05> aah nope, no signing needed on GP: http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project#Building_x-loader >>If you are using an HS (High Security) OMAP device, an extra step is required<<
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<timclassic> Just received a brand-new N900... so pretty.
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<timclassic> Now I have a dev device.
<kerio> neat
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<timclassic> Now I want to figure out how to build Maemo5 from scratch... or as scratch as I can get it.
<DocScrutinizer05> that's an excellent plan. Ask Pali and/or freemangordon and/or merlin1991
<timclassic> DocScrutinizer05: Thanks, I will!
<DocScrutinizer05> actually I guess ~50% of users in here could help
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<DocScrutinizer05> Pali definitely knows how to build powerkernel (original maemo kernel with augments)
<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon knows about building most recent kernel, sth I consider step two after making a as-genuine-as-possible maemo build
<timclassic> Is there a good starting point on the Wiki? I would ultimately like to build as much from source as is possible, pulling in closed bits only as necessary. I've searched a bit and found the "Fremantle Porting Task Force."
<timclassic> Not sure if that's quite what I need (yet)
<DocScrutinizer05> not yet :-)
<timclassic> Though I have a claim on a Neo900.
<DocScrutinizer05> first step: get a "homegrown" maemo to work on N900
<DocScrutinizer05> you'll need all the stuff you need to establish for that, when you later on build maemo for another target
<timclassic> Sure, makes sense
<DocScrutinizer05> I'm almost sure nobody outside of Nokia servers behind walls ever built a genuine maemo from scratch
<timclassic> Wow, really? Everyone has just taken their packages and modified them?
<timclassic> Hmmm
<DocScrutinizer05> except probably stskeeps alias Carsten Munkert(?), see fptf reference
<DocScrutinizer05> ~#maemo kp
<DocScrutinizer05> ~fptf
<infobot> well, fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308
<timclassic> Ah! I found "Maemo Getting Started" in the past but my recent Google-fu was not strong enough.
<DocScrutinizer05> int's in #2 in fptf thread
<DocScrutinizer05> SDK isn't available anymore on Nokia's servers. But you can get a VM and stuff from merlin1991
<DocScrutinizer05> ~#maemo SDK
<DocScrutinizer05> or ask me when you can't find stuff elsewhere
<timclassic> Hmm, that last link (the .txt) gives me a 404
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, Nokia forced us to take that down
<timclassic> Oh.
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<timclassic> Ah, right, merlin1991.
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<DocScrutinizer05> Pali: maybe you can help timclassic a bit?
<DocScrutinizer05> o/ bbl
<Pali> ok, just ask
<DocScrutinizer05> actually the question is generic: how to set up a maemo SDK (SB) environment nowadays?
<DocScrutinizer05> step 2: how to build a minimal maemo system from scratch on it
<DocScrutinizer05> I guess starting with powerkernel would be a good starting point
<Pali> setup SDK: download vmware disk image with preinstalled SDK
<Pali> vmware or qemu/kvm can start virtual machine
<Pali> building any debian system from scrach should be possible via debootstrap
<Pali> (maemo too, but only those packages which have source code)
<Pali> ~kp
<Pali> ~kp53
<DocScrutinizer05> ~#maemo kp
<DocScrutinizer05> ~#maemo kp53
<Pali> how to compile kp is written here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=78371
<Pali> I think thats all for now
<DocScrutinizer05> any hint on "only those packages which have source code"
<DocScrutinizer05> ?
<DocScrutinizer05> apt-get source?
<Pali> build from source means you need source code
<Pali> I think debootstrap takes source from apt
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah sure ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> I meant "where from to get all available maemo sources?"
<DocScrutinizer05> aiui the shuld stll ne a repo somewhere on Nokia, right?
<DocScrutinizer05> there should*
<DocScrutinizer05> god
<DocScrutinizer05> aiui there should still be a repo somewhere on Nokia, right?
<DocScrutinizer05> ~#maemo repos
<DocScrutinizer05> hmm
<DocScrutinizer05> ~#maemo repo
<DocScrutinizer05> ~#maemo repositories
<DocScrutinizer05> sssshhhhh!
<Pali> nginx :D
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway "broken"
<DocScrutinizer05> ummm
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<freemangordon> Pali: though, if you read to the end of that thread, there are some comments that this key is not that much useful
<Pali> yes, I read it
<merlin1991> iirc the factoid for sb images is
<merlin1991> ~#maemo SB
<infobot> rumour has it, scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB
<freemangordon> Pali: and yes, this is exactly the same key I have as ROOT.pem in my CSST installation :)
<Pali> freemangordon: is there any tool or anything else which can extract keys & certificates from x-loader structure header?
<freemangordon> I looked just briefly on that CSST thingie
<freemangordon> so far no such tool
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<freemangordon> Pali: but I guess a dll called signing_omap would be of some help to understand the xloader structure
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