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<Oksana>
xes: His listing was the only SIM holder on EBay which was close to what I was looking for. But, the SIM holders he sent, look much more common - like the dozens of other listings. I can only hope that he still has a way to get the SIM holder which is shown in his listing photograph; it would be neat. Otherwise, I will have to make do with this -very-different- SIM holder.
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<wpwrak>
Oksana: hmm, the two you got still look kinda like the one you wanted :) i see 6 vs. 8 holes in the shield, but the 2 extra ones don't seem to have contacts underneath. so is the critter really functionally different ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
2 of the 8 contatcs of SIM are useless anyway: USB
<ds2>
hmmm
<ds2>
how bad of an idea is it to hot air the sim sockets?
<DocScrutinizer05>
should work
<DocScrutinizer05>
they're made for that
<ds2>
u think that will fix the infamous N900 SIM errors?
<ds2>
they may be made for it but are they made for multiple reflows
<DocScrutinizer05>
usually not. and N900 problems are not related to SIM tray
<ds2>
oh
<DocScrutinizer05>
Oksana looks for a spare for N950
<ds2>
does the new phone module on the neo900 address that?
<DocScrutinizer05>
address what?
<DocScrutinizer05>
BGA solder joint pop
<DocScrutinizer05>
?
<DocScrutinizer05>
we try to address that by not placing large bga chips on opposite PCB side of keyboard
<ds2>
the SIM error problem
<Oksana>
Hmm... Theoretically, the SIM holders are functionally same, pins are in same place. And if there is no chance of getting the one on the listing phone, I will have to use the one(s) I have received. But, I am sure that spring-ejector is done differently, for better or for worse. Just, the listing-photo gave me false hope to get nearly-identical piece, and now it's like: it will likely work,...
<Oksana>
...but why cannot I get the one from the photo?
<DocScrutinizer05>
plus we plan to have mechanical support posts to make the whole kbd PCB more rigid
<ds2>
oh it is a big BGA that w/a bad joint causing the SIM errors?
<ds2>
sigh
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod:
<DocScrutinizer05>
the modem chip
<Oksana>
And, I cannot be exactly sure, but now that I compare them, new SIM holder seems to be 1mm narrower :-/
<DocScrutinizer05>
ds2: D2800 BB5 RAPUYAMA, right under TYU keys
<DocScrutinizer05>
Oksana: narrower? how would the SIM fit in then?
<Oksana>
They made the ejector-spring part narrower somehow.
<Oksana>
So the SIM-holder part on the whole is narrower, too. Not sure how it would affect solder-ability into place of old SIM holder...
<wpwrak>
(why can't i get the same) welcome to the world of electro-mechanical components ;-) you'd be surprised how many hours i spent comparing microsd card holders for anelok (where i get to choose whatever i like - neo900 is much less flexible) before at had at least three that would fit on the same footprint. not that they'd be electrically identical. that would be asking for too much ...
<Oksana>
It's theoretically good for new phones, more compact, but how will it affect solder-ability to old SIM-holder's place? And did they sacrifice usability of SIM-ejector-spring, or did they actually improve it while changing it?
<Oksana>
If only I knew who made the old SIM holder... I have "part number", of a kind: 14011V2. Surely, they are not out of business?
<ds2>
is the foot print compatible?
<ds2>
somewhere in the docs should be a recommended footprint drawing
<DocScrutinizer05>
the nasty thing about Nokia spare parts: even for pretty common chips (say, a LED) they use their own Nokia-proprietary part numbers and usually don't disclose the real manufacturer and manuf's part number
<DocScrutinizer05>
thus you end up buying a spare LED from Nokia for 8$ while at digikey same part costs 15ct
<DocScrutinizer05>
s/LED/younameit/
<wpwrak>
0 Ohm 0402 resistor ;-)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
Nokia wasn't silly enough to provide those as spare parts afaik. If they had, it would cost 1.80USD
<wpwrak>
a bargain ! :)
<wpwrak>
well, one issue is of course sheet handling cost. if you really sell such critters one piece at a time, this still takes a few minutes of your sale folk's time, shipping cost, and so on.
<wpwrak>
so in the end it will be expensive even if the cost of the actual part is basically zero
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod:
<DocScrutinizer05>
of course
<DocScrutinizer05>
no reason to sell domesheets for 18 bucks
<DocScrutinizer05>
or kbd frames for 12
<wpwrak>
ah, they're a rarity item. supply and the demand, the joy of the free market :)
<quatrox>
with increased number of cores comes increased responsibility to not waste CPU cycles just because they are available
<wpwrak>
quatrox: like spiderman, that's deep in the realm on the unreal ;-)
<wpwrak>
#s/on/of/
<quatrox>
:)
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<uhhimhere>
DocScrutinizer05: well we can use the other cores to produce energy
<quatrox>
uhhimhere: will you reprogram the cores to believe they are batteries?
<uhhimhere>
no i will use them to cook eggs
<uhhimhere>
so it adds to nokia n900 value
<uhhimhere>
now you CAN answer your phone while making breakfast
<quatrox>
But do not touch it! It will burn you
<uhhimhere>
no it uses cooltouch(TM) algorithm
<quatrox>
hmmm... does it work with induction? I prefer induction over ceramic elements
<uhhimhere>
prolonged use could induce orgasms.
<uhhimhere>
also the SPARC can act as an electrical generator as well. SPARC = Special Peltier Arrangement for Regenerative Conduction
<uhhimhere>
so while 1 core is working the other 15 can be making energy from thin/think air
<uhhimhere>
so you can feedback into grid
<quatrox>
Usually peltier elements requires energy
<uhhimhere>
this is Special Peltier Arrangement
<uhhimhere>
for Regenerative Conduction
<uhhimhere>
SPARC
<uhhimhere>
and this is 3x as efficient
<uhhimhere>
3 Times
<uhhimhere>
SPARC T3
<quatrox>
uhhimhere: You should take a patent and sell your idea
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<quatrox>
I want a phone that could run on petrol instead of electricity. Imagine how fast it could be charged :)
<uhhimhere>
actually that would be very bad idea
<quatrox>
why? We got lots of oil here
<uhhimhere>
because then people think you sniff petrol
<quatrox>
but I would never loose my phone because I could always here where it is
<quatrox>
s/here/hear/
<Oksana>
xes: Thank you, but it's not in the list...
<Oksana>
About thin air: seriously, battery-charging by radio from EMPs created by lightning 40kms away sounds more plausible. Though, it would be less plausible than solar charging. If the lightning is less than 10kms away, then it starts to sound like an idea of an idea...
<uhhimhere>
lightning generation cause significant increase of greenhouse emmisions due to ozonification of the air during generation
<Oksana>
It's not like I am going to create lightning; I just would like to gather energy of natural lightning.
<uhhimhere>
lightning is also very bad for your hair
<uhhimhere>
SPARC T3 can condition and dry your hair as it generates free ions that rejuvenate remove free radicals from you hair and scalp
<uhhimhere>
please have SPARC T3 in neo900
<uhhimhere>
for the sake of the baby seals and your impending baldness
gry is now known as svetlana
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<Oksana>
Should I contact PolarCell? Their batteries (the two newest ones, not the old one I have been using for months) have hats falling off them, after just a few week. It's possible PolarCell never heard of DT-33, or something. Because the Battery-Charging-Dock seems to grab the battery, by its hat, and that makes the issue particularly visible. Though, the hat may fall off after the battery has...
<Oksana>
...fallen to the floor ;-/
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<DocScrutinizer05>
ouch. LiIon cells are very sensitive to mechanical impact
<uhhimhere>
DocScrutinizer05: if u use Tri-Helical Plasteel 1000 MBS as case material you should be alright
<uhhimhere>
MBS = Molecular Bonded Shell
<DocScrutinizer05>
uhhimhere: please stop that nonsense
<uhhimhere>
what?
<uhhimhere>
DocScrutinizer05: will you consider using an FPGA for a processor base
<uhhimhere>
so people can implement whatever SIP
<Oksana>
Ok, so tip number 777: Do not put battery charger on a book-shelf, to avoid battery falling down to the floor. | But, I would say that the battery still works. As in, I would not say that it has lower capacity than before the fall. Just, the hats on "new" PolarCell batteries are extremely easy to take off.
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I understood that. Damage possibly done to LiIon is perforating separator foil
<DocScrutinizer05>
which would result in either immediate "explosion" or significantly increased self discharge
<Oksana>
How would I inspect the battery (without destroying it) to know whether it has perforated foil or not?
* Oksana
Good night
<DocScrutinizer05>
check self discharge rate
<drathir>
Oksana: You maybe hear about prototypes of batteries with high capacity and fast chargin, but minus of them is very high temperature of cells? not sure if good remember but ~100'C...
<DocScrutinizer05>
drathir: please rephrase
<drathir>
lipoli isnt more aware of explosion and damage?
<DocScrutinizer05>
are you talking about high temperature cells?
<drathir>
DocScrutinizer05: yes if nothing changet its still prototype ones...
<DocScrutinizer05>
there are very fine sulfur batteries - milten sulfur
<DocScrutinizer05>
molten*
<DocScrutinizer05>
they are slightly beyond prototype stage, but used only in the range of 100kg+
<drathir>
oh ;( that didnt know... thats bad news than...
<drathir>
hard to fit in pocket ;/
<DocScrutinizer05>
I just found there are LiS batteries, actually still prototypes, 2.5 times capacity of LiIon
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess that's what you're referring to
<DocScrutinizer05>
while what I recalled probably were NaS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium–sulfur_battery (also no molten sulfur, only molten sodium. maybe I've been mistaken)
<DocScrutinizer05>
drathir: however I don't get the 100°C detail then
<ds2>
sounds like another fun thing to poke open and toss into the water :D
<DocScrutinizer05>
wut? LiS 1300 mAh/g - either I need sleep or sth is odd with those figures in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium–sulfur_battery - possibly both
<DocScrutinizer05>
how does that match with the claimed 500 W·h/kg ?
<drathir>
DocScrutinizer05: that can be that, but not full sure...
<DocScrutinizer05>
let's see: voltage is 1.7 ~ 2.5V
<DocScrutinizer05>
~1.3 * 2.1 * 1000
<infobot>
2730
<DocScrutinizer05>
not 500
<DocScrutinizer05>
or other way round: 500Wh/kg = 0,5Wh/g. 1300mAh/g * 2.1V ~= 2.6Wh/g
<stevend>
Molten sulfur batteries sound lovely. I have handled molten sulfur... while it is melted it is hard to keep it from catching on fire spontaneously, and it bubbles vigorously as it combines with oxygen in the air to release a great big cloud of sulfur dioxide.
<stevend>
Though there are definatly worse things you could make a battery from.
<stevend>
Hmm, actually I think I would prefer the molten sulfur to the gasoline phone suggested above...
<stevend>
(different cpu) What do you guys think of the OpenCores OpenRISC project? I was hoping we would finally get a non-FPGA open CPU, but it never seems to have gone anywhere.
<stevend>
drathir: There are only three families of room-temperature liquid metal alloys: mercury based (highly toxic), sodium-potassium alloy based (very very flammible, explodes on contact w/ water), and gallium-indium-tin based (expensive, and those elements don't sounds very useful for batteries to me). If I were to take a guess, the prototype in question would be a sodium-potassium battery, which could be quite efficient, but extremely
<drathir>
stevend: the best will be nuclear universal source which even if device broke able to switch to another one...
<stevend>
drathir: Do you really want to hold highly radioactive elements up to your ear?
<MonkeyofDoom>
why is this channel 95% ppl talking complete nonsense
<stevend>
I have no idea.
<MonkeyofDoom>
the neo900 is a hacker phone, not a bad science fiction movie
<stevend>
MonkeyofDoom: A really bad science fiction movie brought us Plan 9 from Bell Labs.
<drathir>
stevend: the radioactivity is elsewhere even in nature, and the clean one source takin on mind not needed to replace by years... the best will be solar one but not possible store with that much efficiency...
<MonkeyofDoom>
stevend: I'll name my next operating system "the FCC approving nuclear batteries"
<stevend>
Lol.
<stevend>
drathir: You need to be more careful about what you believe from random things you read.
<drathir>
MonkeyofDoom: if will be possible create secure nuclear one for earth will be much better than produce all the time a lot current bateries and recycling them... but i know its not possible atm ;/
<fling>
How is it going?
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<drathir>
now even smoke detectors good one are radioactive btw...
<stevend>
fling: It is going somewhere else.
<drathir>
bc contain izotopes...
<DocScrutinizer05>
MonkeyofDoom called for on-topic, so I have to stop this discussion now
<drathir>
k roger that and follow...
<MonkeyofDoom>
d'aww thanks
<DocScrutinizer05>
LiS cells are considered on-topic, though at the brink
<DocScrutinizer05>
we couldn't use LiS even when it became available: wrong cell voltage
<stevend>
A punctured LiS cell would almost certainly cause a fire, release of noxious gasses, and chemical burns to anyone that got splashed by the sulfur. Even if you could put one in your phone, I don't think I would want to. Lithium-ion batteries can get pretty hot and larger ones can catch on fire, but they are pretty tame by comparison. At least, this is based on my interpretation of how the battery is working.
<stevend>
Though a methanol-based fuel cell might be interesting... You would have to refill it instead of recharging, but it could potentially last a lot longer than a battery.
<stevend>
Ah, I think I was confusing this with something else. (I would call this a lithium-sulfide battery, not a lithium-sulfur battery)
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, discharging is like S 8 → Li 2S 8 → Li 2S 6 → Li 2S 4 → Li 2S 3
<DocScrutinizer05>
thus the charged battery has pure sulfur and pure Li, as anode/cathode
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<DocScrutinizer05>
lithium-sulfide is in discharged cell.
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<DocScrutinizer05>
ok, some caled the hydrogen bomb helium bomb, based on the fusion product
<DocScrutinizer05>
((hule cell)) such stuff exists, as prototypes. Dunno if any made it to mass production
<DocScrutinizer05>
fuel*
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think the smallest I've seen was ~ size of a Neo900
<DocScrutinizer05>
the interesting thing is actually the easy and lightweight carrying of arbitrary amounts of "spare energy"
<stevend>
Back.
<stevend>
If you really wanted to, you could carry a very large jug of methanol with a tube to your phone, and then power it for several years.
<stevend>
The inconvenient thing would be getting the fuel then. Do these units have the ability to create fuel using electricity, to sort of "recharge" the cell? That is easy to do with a hydrogen cell, but methanol is a bit more complex.
<stevend>
Hmm... looks like the carbon from the methanol is carried off as CO2 (expected), and water is produced.
<stevend>
IMO, I think I would prefer a battery for most applications, because electrical connections are ubiquitous. Unless your local utility company hooked up methanol lines everywhere... the distribution problem just sounds complex, like the problems associated with gasoline now.
<stevend>
I think fuel cells have a good chance of replacing non-recharging batteries though.
<stevend>
DocScrutinizer05: Do the Neo900 devs have any plans/ideas for the project after the Neo900 has shipped? Besides a possible second run that is.
<DocScrutinizer05>
search for Step2
<stevend>
Web search, site search? I get no results. Oh, maybe you mean IRC logs?
<ds2>
doesn't that require a model of how old do engineers live to? ;)
<stevend>
Thanks for the link. I actually read that thread recently, but I forgot what it said (I get memory loss). Sorry for bugging you redundantly. =P
<DocScrutinizer05>
UGH >>Aus rechtlichen Gründen ist dieses Video nur innerhalb von Deutschland abrufbar<<
<stevend>
Maybe a Neo900-specific wiki would be helpful for non-devs to contribute organizing this information that is spread out amongst irc/forum/etc.
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<mvaenskae>
nice of them to admit their wronggoings and pushing fixes
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<DocScrutinizer05>
nice for NSA to have jump-host access to 90% of companies worldwide
<DocScrutinizer05>
they won't cry about it getting fixed now. they already installed their backdoors on some machines of the intranets meanwhile
<DocScrutinizer05>
now you got the perfect explanation why companies like Siemens and ST-Ericsson go to the extent of installing a separate dedicated cat-5 network just for phones
<DocScrutinizer05>
((nice of them)) well, here in Germany they could get sued outa the water if they wouldn't fix that vulnerabilities/threars ASAP
<DocScrutinizer05>
threats*
<DocScrutinizer05>
ignoring/denying the threat could render them liable for *all* damage ensuing
<mvaenskae>
you can get sued in germany for supplying bad software?
<mvaenskae>
hm, wiki doesn't have a regexp matching "Software" at least; it is interesting to know though
<mvaenskae>
i will remember to not use germany as my testing ground for software :
<mvaenskae>
:D
<DocScrutinizer05>
"Produkthaftung" is not exactly applicable for companies, since the recompense-able goods need to be used non-commercially. But other even more rough laws and regulations apply for business2business
<DocScrutinizer05>
s/rough/tough/
<DocScrutinizer05>
((90% of companies)) prolly exaggerated, since snom << grandstream. I however bet grandstream isn't the literal bit better
<DocScrutinizer05>
meh, nowadays many cmpanies use skype, which definitely must be worst of all
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<Pali>
why too many netsplits??
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<DocScrutinizer05>
[Notice] -mquin- [Global Notice] We are about to start rehubbing the network ahead of planned maintenance work. This will cause some netsplits, but should be completed shortly. Thank you for your patience and for flying freenode! :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
[Notice] -mquin- [Global Notice] And we are done, thanks for bearing with us. There will be a services outage at around 0000 UTC (just under two hours from this notice) which is expected to last between 15 and 30 minutes.