<DocScrutinizer05>
I think the N900 maemo kernel was pre-DT
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<MonkeyofDoom>
haha
<MonkeyofDoom>
way pre-DT
<MonkeyofDoom>
I'm running upstreamish 3.8 at which point I think it n900 wasn't DT-ready
<MonkeyofDoom>
-it
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<DocScrutinizer05>
iirc freemangordon made DT "work" only with 3.12 plusminus a few
<DocScrutinizer05>
IroN900:~# uname -a
<DocScrutinizer05>
Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux
<uhhimhere>
so will the neo900 have a dts
<uhhimhere>
so that users can compile whatever vanilla they want
<uhhimhere>
for fun
<DocScrutinizer05>
ask freemangordon, for example
<DocScrutinizer05>
you know, Neo900 ships without much of a OS anyway. Up to community to port whaever OS they like to have on it
<DocScrutinizer05>
but yes, the FPTF is aiming at running kernel >3.1x on Neo900, I'm not sure how it will pan out for maemo but it will provide your DTS for sure
<DocScrutinizer05>
which actually has the comprehensive set of reasons to stay with OMAP3
<DocScrutinizer05>
OMAP4 is pretty much deprecated by me since it has SiErr I don't want to work around in hardware. And it's already unclear if it would be really sw-compatible on a binary level to N900
<DocScrutinizer05>
OMAP5 is actually too large to get it fit into Neo900
<uhhimhere>
i understand the whole SoCs arent OTS
<DocScrutinizer05>
and any non-OMAP architecture is a complete nogo when we wanna stay compatible
<uhhimhere>
but dont they have surplus?
<uhhimhere>
these companies of past generation SoCs?
<DocScrutinizer05>
huh?
<uhhimhere>
i dont know lying around in a warehouse somewhere
<uhhimhere>
obviously they dont make just enough
<DocScrutinizer05>
what are you talking about?
<uhhimhere>
surplus
<DocScrutinizer05>
of what?
<uhhimhere>
SoCs
<DocScrutinizer05>
errr
<uhhimhere>
from past generation
<DocScrutinizer05>
you want a OMAP2?
<uhhimhere>
no
<uhhimhere>
but neither do i want quadcore superflex snapkrait with duplexing gigaflops
<DocScrutinizer05>
then you should be happy with OMAP3, no?
<uhhimhere>
but i could also be happy with the rbpi processor
<uhhimhere>
again because of the open documentation of the GPU
<uhhimhere>
people could work on it
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, people could work with Neo900 without even using the GPU
<uhhimhere>
aws talking to a guy last night on rbpi dev
<uhhimhere>
thinks the rbpi v3d has 192 cores
<DocScrutinizer05>
and we actually have 2D drivers, only 3D is closed source, though recently leaked
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<DocScrutinizer05>
we're not interested in the number of GPU cores
<DocScrutinizer05>
we're perfectly happy when the closed blob GPU driver of maemo works on Neo900
<ds2>
just a wild ass, not thought out idea - how painful powerwise is it to use one of those FPGA w/Cortex A cores?
<DocScrutinizer05>
generaly FPGA are power hogs
<uhhimhere>
DocScrutinizer05: thats great and all then question is why even bother messing with the SoC... just keep the old one
<ds2>
i know in general...but is one of those FPGA w/hard cores akin to using an Allwinner SoC or is it magnitudes worse then that
<DocScrutinizer05>
why keep the old one when we can use a faster one while staying 100% compatible?
<ds2>
a FPGA would solve some of the GPU issues
<ds2>
and SoCs ARE OTS
<uhhimhere>
because its not that much faster, and compatibility is theoretical
<uhhimhere>
only allwinner
<DocScrutinizer05>
ohmy
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<DocScrutinizer05>
go buy a OMAP3530 then. GTA04 using DM3730. Period
<ds2>
did I hear someone claiming compatibility between the DM3730 and the OMAP3430 is only theoretical?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah ;-P
<uhhimhere>
well until something is actually implemented it is theoretical isnt it
<ds2>
I don't have a cluebat big enough to address that one....
<DocScrutinizer05>
I ran binaries from N900 on N950/N9 - both have OMAP3730
<ds2>
if you design the board right, you can just swap those 2 chips around
<DocScrutinizer05>
or 3630, who knows
<DocScrutinizer05>
ds2: thanks!
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<ds2>
IIRC, the key thing is a few bypass caps
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep
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<uhhimhere>
ds2: are there any non allwinners that are ots?
<ds2>
what I am curious is - how are you handling the MIPI stuff?
<ds2>
uhhimhere: virtually all SoCs re OTS
<DocScrutinizer05>
MIPI? as in SSI/HSI, camera, that crap?
<ds2>
that and the display
<ds2>
IIRC, the N900 uses MIPI for the display
<uhhimhere>
ds2: which shelf?
<DocScrutinizer05>
there are crappy specs publicly available. There are linux drivers available, there are application notes / schematics available
<ds2>
public app notes?
<ds2>
official docs are lacking, IIRC unless that has change in the last year or so
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, schematics, like BB, N900, etc
<ds2>
ah. gotcha
<DocScrutinizer05>
the display stuff of N900 will be what we use in Neo900 pretty much 100% cloned
<ds2>
oh...not crossing the bridge when the N900 displays dry up?
<DocScrutinizer05>
proto_v2 for testing this - among others
<ds2>
'k
<DocScrutinizer05>
N900 displays are not that unique like they seem to be
<DocScrutinizer05>
and there's a number of other displays people connected to OMAP3 successfully
<DocScrutinizer05>
not suggesting we could use them in Neo900
<DocScrutinizer05>
just saying video bus isn't a miracle
<DocScrutinizer05>
despite MIPI pita
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually I think the OMAP TRM should have sufficient info to connect any compatible display to the SoC, without referencing to any unobtainium MIPI specs
<DocScrutinizer05>
what really hurts is OMAP3's lack of a decent digital secondary video bus, for external video
<DocScrutinizer05>
only this CVBS signal
<DocScrutinizer05>
if it at least was RGB
<DocScrutinizer05>
but noooo, they mix it chip-internal
<DocScrutinizer05>
S-Video is as good as it gets with this stuff
<DocScrutinizer05>
for anything beyond, we need to choose between internal and external display, mutually
<DocScrutinizer05>
and in this dmain the chips we could use are really a PITA
<DocScrutinizer05>
doman*
<DocScrutinizer05>
dang
<DocScrutinizer05>
digital video is infested with NDA and royalties
<DocScrutinizer05>
and vaporware chips
<DocScrutinizer05>
.
<DocScrutinizer05>
o/ n8
<uhhimhere>
ds2: so where can I buy a single non-allwinner SoC
<uhhimhere>
which shelf
<DocScrutinizer05>
digikey
<DocScrutinizer05>
mouser
<DocScrutinizer05>
arrow
<DocScrutinizer05>
or, for the more recent ones, you need to find the subcontractors that got support by the big guys to build modules with the SoC
<DocScrutinizer05>
you can't buy a OMAP5 chip, only modules
<DocScrutinizer05>
try find an OMAP5 and you might understand what's written on that page
<uhhimhere>
so why isnt omap5 available ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>They explained to me that in order to be able to use the Tegra, I need to let the hardware be designed and produced by a contracted partner [of their choice]. <<
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<uhhimhere>
so will the neo900 have the ability to put out hdmi?
<uhhimhere>
just to save cables on both the a & v
<uhhimhere>
so much easier to have just 1x output
<kerio>
in all likelyhood, no
<uhhimhere>
why not?
<uhhimhere>
just wont fit into the theme of keeping it the same as the n900?
<kerio>
because there's no digital video ut
<kerio>
out
<uhhimhere>
what would it take to have digital video out( i know this isnt even standard on newer phones but then again video out isnt even standard)
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<sixwheeledbeast>
Why have a digital out on a device with 800x480?
<uhhimhere>
well the digital out res wouldnt be tied to the lcd input
<uhhimhere>
it would be whatever the silicon could handle
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2015-01-11 Sun 07:16:35] <DocScrutinizer05> what really hurts is OMAP3's lack of a decent digital secondary video bus, for external video
<DocScrutinizer05>
...
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2015-01-11 Sun 07:19:22] <DocScrutinizer05> for anything beyond, we need to choose between internal and external display, mutually
<uhhimhere>
but i thought this wasnt an OMAP3 SoC/
<DocScrutinizer05>
dunno what you thought
<uhhimhere>
ok so the DM3730 is an OMAP 3
<uhhimhere>
ok so youre saying neo900 doesnt have HDMI because it was decided that having to switch one off while the other is on is not acceptable?
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2015-01-11 Sun 07:20:38] <DocScrutinizer05> and in this domain the chips we could use are really a PITA <DocScrutinizer05> digital video is infested with NDA and royalties
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry when i'm not interested in wasting more time on somebody who refuses to contribute
<uhhimhere>
digital video is infested with NDA and royalties
<uhhimhere>
so youre saying just by going with MIPS theyve manage tocircumvent royalties?
<uhhimhere>
and NDAs?
<uhhimhere>
come on
<DocScrutinizer05>
I shared fine links to comprehensive dicussion and latest info on the topic. When you're not wlling to read, don't expect spoonfeeding
<DocScrutinizer05>
and honestly I'm feeling like wasting my time
<uhhimhere>
im just saying forwarding a 227 page thread as an answer isnt really an answer
<uhhimhere>
how much more would the neo900 cost with HDMI out
<uhhimhere>
from what youve said the issue is having to choose between the onscreen display and digital out
<uhhimhere>
for the DM implementation
<uhhimhere>
which i think is fine
<DocScrutinizer05>
you're just saying that you're too lazy to read the very post and follow-ups dealing with exactly this topic, in an admittedly long thread. Sorry I'm out
<DocScrutinizer05>
either way, I'm out. I don't feel like taking bashing and offensive arguing
<DocScrutinizer05>
with somebody who doesn't even care to find out what's DM3730
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry when I assume you're not, and prolly never will be, a customer of Neo900, since the device quite obviously isn't up to your requirements
<uhhimhere>
what requirements i have an n900 and its a good device, always wished for it to have digital out
<uhhimhere>
never thought it was that slow or anything especially since you could overclock it
<uhhimhere>
and i am really excited for a neo900
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<uhhimhere>
DocScrutinizer05: alright i talked to the devs over at gcw and it seems none of them know anything about the hardware, everything was reverse engineered
<uhhimhere>
they have no cad files etc
<uhhimhere>
they just went to the factory said this is what we want and got a pcb prototyped
<uhhimhere>
and btw i will buy it if it comes out
<uhhimhere>
as long as everything about the hardware designs made open
<uhhimhere>
cad schems etc
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<Openbot>
Just a wild idea : today i repaired a chineese tablet (mtk) and was surprised to find 2 cpu's inside though i am not sure about that as it might be a gpu but it was written mediatek as in soc's i see genrelly
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<Openbot>
Is it a coprocesser compensating for somethimg or booster and can the neo have something like that
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<Openbot>
Kauboik_;)
<mvaenskae>
Openbot: maybe a picture/part number would clear up what the chip was :)
<Openbot>
\kabouik
<Openbot>
\kabouik_
<Kabouik_>
\Openbot.
<Openbot>
Thanx ;)
<Openbot>
Na i had little time to fix the speakers doused in oil :p
<Openbot>
Mvaenskae^
<mvaenskae>
Openbot: but now you have plenty, right? :D
<Openbot>
It can be awsome if theres a second processor that can be used by apps videos if needed
<Openbot>
Mvaenskae ? I didnt get that rephrase pls :)
<Openbot>
Mvaenskae docscrutnizer05 can i /query you
<Openbot>
Anybody i need help on my messed up irc acc
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<Openbot>
Meh
<Openbot>
I cant
<Openbot>
Time tm query fire brigade
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<Openbot>
Done :D
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