<DocScrutinizer05>
FIQ: Pyra has none of the unique Neo900 monitoring and special sandboxing features which are hardware features designed by me, not Nikolaus. Pyra is using same modem attached in a similar way obviously. That's where similarities end
<FIQ>
yeah I was curious of the exact differences
<FIQ>
when seeing that thread
<DocScrutinizer05>
we are monitoring the modem with special sensors which are not existing in Pyra for all I know
<DocScrutinizer05>
using pyra as a phone, LOL
<DocScrutinizer05>
good luck with that
<kerio>
why?
<DocScrutinizer05>
how will you signal missed calls etc when clamshell closed? how will you even make calls when there's no earpiece?
<FIQ>
um you know
<FIQ>
I never ever used the earpiece in a phone
<FIQ>
(because I can't hear what people are saying if I try :P)
<DocScrutinizer05>
then don't say "as a phone"
<FIQ>
??? I never used it in "normal" phones either
<DocScrutinizer05>
a phone by definition is something you press to your ear
<FIQ>
<DocScrutinizer05> how will you signal missed calls etc when clamshell closed?
<FIQ>
not sure what you mean
<FIQ>
you realize that there's tons of clamshell phones as well
<FIQ>
mostly older ones pre-smartphone-boom
<FIQ>
but yeah
<kerio>
he means like
<kerio>
there's no external-facing led
<FIQ>
there is actually
<FIQ>
pyra logo
<FIQ>
on the back
<DocScrutinizer05>
oooh, they were so smart to add that now? :-D
<FIQ>
anyway, not trying to argue that pyra would make for a great phone -- it would definitely be awkward to use
<FIQ>
but it would definitely be *usable* as one
<FIQ>
if proper software existed
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure, even my PC is "usable as a phone"
<FIQ>
does your PC has a built in 3g modem?
<FIQ>
(or 4g or whatever)
<FIQ>
you could go out and buy a random dongle for it if not I guess
<FIQ>
but if you're doing that -- might as well buy a dumbphone
<FIQ>
the reason OP in the thread ^ (and me, and probably a couple of others) would like to use the thing as a phone is simple -- one less device to carry around
<DocScrutinizer05>
so what? you as well could buy a Neo900 ;-)
<FIQ>
of course, if it would be a very crappy experience, not buying an actual phone would be foolish
<FIQ>
but if it works -- why not? :P
<DocScrutinizer05>
so what's your question now?
<DocScrutinizer05>
no the Pyra is no and never will be a real phone, and no the pyra will not have the unique Neo900 security features
<FIQ>
I do ot have any more questions
<FIQ>
since you answered them with your first line earlier
<DocScrutinizer05>
when the question is if $arbitrary-device can get used to do phonecalls when you're willing to take several compromises... I dunno
<FIQ>
kerio, nice link btw
<DocScrutinizer05>
kerio: you're aware that the pyra speakers will prolly be on the small sides? so even when you can hold the pyra to your ear with small side, the *mic* will be like 50cm from your mouth :-P
<DocScrutinizer05>
at side of your head, not in front of mouth
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<DocScrutinizer05>
on a sidenote: I'm not sure the Pyra is completely tested (and designed) for very low power suspend mode. A single little "design glitch" will spoil the whole usecase scenario and either result in *) high standby quiescent current, or *) constant wakes from standby (which will also cut through battery), or *) not waking from standby when an event (read 'inbound call') would require that
<DocScrutinizer05>
at least (thanks to my nagging, partially) Pyra will have decent charging that doesn't show the "deadlock: not charging when not booting" issue
<DocScrutinizer05>
NO Sir, you can NEVER trust the modem!!!
<DocScrutinizer05>
That's why Neo900 has special HARDWARE to sandbox and monitor the modem
<DocScrutinizer05>
Pyra does NOT - for all I know, and when it has then they at least should have credited me and made good use of those features in their advertising
<FIQ>
Not very relevant, but just saying @ <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: you're aware that the pyra speakers will prolly be on the small sides? so even when you can hold the pyra to your ear with small side, the *mic* will be like 50cm from your mouth :-P
<DocScrutinizer05>
HAHAHAHA I *see* how kerio is holding that speaker to his ear X-P
<FIQ>
heh
<DocScrutinizer05>
kerio: will you grow a dent behind ear, for the hinge? ;-)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
but yeah, pressing a few dozen buttons with your ear lobe and cheeck, you actually can keep the right speaker close to your ear while mic would stay reasonably close to your mouth
<DocScrutinizer05>
plus you might find dual use of display as umbrella during phonecall ;-)
<FIQ>
rofl
<DocScrutinizer05>
what might be a tad flawed is ringer/sounder volume of those speaker though, when display/clamshell closed
<DocScrutinizer05>
but then, you told me it has vibrator. Yet to be seen if the maybe 2g of vibrator excenter mass can make that massive device vibrate enough so you'd notice when you carry it in errrr where did you plan to stash it?
<FIQ>
in my pocket
<DocScrutinizer05>
ok :-D
<FIQ>
it would barely fit -- but it would
<FIQ>
if not, I wouldn't buy one
<FIQ>
same for OP
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, my final verdict: Pyra is an excellent device, and yes probably you even could do phonecalls with it. But don't expect it to be a valid replacement for a *phone*
<FIQ>
hahah I know it would likely do a crappy phone if it would work in first place (there is currently no plans for any such software)
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's not made for that, and only time will show all the little inconveniences and shortcomings you have to accept when using Pyra as a phone
<DocScrutinizer05>
the range will be from "almost bearable" to "sorry, XY detail defeats that"
<FIQ>
(and using it as a phone with its' speakers only would be ridiculously dumb, you'd obviously need to use headphones/etc to make it somewhat sane)
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's just the obvious details
<FIQ>
my point was more a case of IF it would work, and be slightly usable, I wouldn't mind dismissing one extra device to carry
<DocScrutinizer05>
there might hide more under the obvious surface
<FIQ>
and if not, well, I'd just buy the neo900 when released
<DocScrutinizer05>
FIQ: I wouldn't hope for that - we're building to order
<FIQ>
yeah I know
<DocScrutinizer05>
there might be a few devices available for "free sales", but only a really small number
<FIQ>
I don't really *want* to jump ship, it's an awesome concept and I loved the N900
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<FIQ>
But it was what, 2 years ago? that I joined
<FIQ>
So I'm not as sure as back then
<FIQ>
s/joined/donated for order/
<DocScrutinizer05>
Neo900 idea is only 1.5 years old
<FIQ>
ah
<DocScrutinizer05>
donations started like 1 year plus a tiny bit ago
<FIQ>
still a long time though
<DocScrutinizer05>
or not so tiny, maybe 14 or 15 months ago
<FIQ>
iirc I "ordered" nov 2012
<FIQ>
er 2013
<DocScrutinizer05>
that might be about correct
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe, wizardStan still missing the point
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>trying to justify himsel<< LOL
<DocScrutinizer05>
quite insulting how he's claiming my explanations would be >> Very strawman.<< while in same post admitting >>I don't know what "special hardware" he has<<
<DocScrutinizer05>
and he completely fails to grok the concept of "you cannot trust the modem since you don't know what's inside"
<DocScrutinizer05>
I can tell for sure Pyra will NOT be able to detect modem being on when it's not supposed to be. Not reliably, it's lacking the dedicated sensors for that. Any sensors, while Neo900 has several of them
<DocScrutinizer05>
and wasn't that exactly the question the OP asked?
<DocScrutinizer05>
when I felt Pyra was a competitor, I hardly had called it "our sister project" (OWTTE) and rather had chosen some other HW house than GDC to build Neo900
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<DocScrutinizer05>
NB Pyra has a electronic switch to force power-down on modem. It _lacks_ however any dedicated hardware that would monitor modem behavior when modem powered up. Unlike Neo900 that comes with a multitude of such dedicated sensors - something absolutely unique to Neo900
<DocScrutinizer05>
and why should I join that forum to answer questions about Neo900? why can't we expect people to ask questions about Neo900 on Neo900 forum and other dedicated channels?
<DocScrutinizer05>
read that one sentence: >>Aye, he's not wrong, the Pyra isn't the NEO900, but he's not entirely right either, there are many ways it can be useful.<< Then tell me where I said "Pyra is not useful" (or even "is useless"). So is the "he's not entirely right either" just there to make the poster feel superior?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
>>The absolute worst it can do is turn itself on and start broadcasting your location which, as explained, the Pyra will know about by the power spike<< incorrect, and incorrect. The modem doesn't even need to send position, see U-TDOA which he also never heard about and instead claims "BTS needs to know your position for cellular to work" which is wrong. And Pyra has no dedicated sensor that can detect the "power spike" of modem and
<DocScrutinizer05>
tell it apart from the other arbitrary noise on total of system power consumption.
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