<DocScrutinizer05>
Wizzup: I suspected that too, but then...
<DocScrutinizer05>
feels similar to what the chinese sellers do on ebay when they can't deliver: rather than removing the offer they change it from $$ to $$$$$
<P-G>
Honestly, that sort of mistake would be enough to make me never use them again. Trust is important.
<DocScrutinizer05>
mouser has those BB-xN "on order. Estimated stock refill time: 8 weeks" since 8 months now
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, mouser sent me a mail about them hoping to get the board I ordered during next 6 weeks
<DocScrutinizer05>
boards (plural)
<DocScrutinizer05>
so possibly sparkfun actually got a limited number of boards, satified the pending orders, and 2018 is thier semi-automatic prognosis for next batch based on statistics
<DocScrutinizer05>
who (except sparkfun) knows
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<DocScrutinizer05>
the original website is dead, but yeah, I should fix that too
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually the http://boycottsystemd.org/ being dead and even eradicated from wayback and archive was the reason I posted it to pastebin
<DocScrutinizer05>
go have your own theory on *why* the site went south
<DocScrutinizer05>
smells like DoS or even C&D
<P-G>
Those Systemd guys are pretty hardcore.
<P-G>
What happened to the website?
<wpwrak>
probably abducted the site operators to some torture camp in the jungle
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<DocScrutinizer05>
"an offer they couldn't resist"
<DocScrutinizer05>
systemd is part of RH's plan to conquer the world
<DocScrutinizer05>
;-)
<P-G>
Well, as long as there are alternatives available.
<wpwrak>
if you've seen "mars attacks", that was the pg-13 version of what awaits with systemd
<DocScrutinizer05>
that plan been carefully thought of and stage-managed
<wpwrak>
or was it "the call of cthulhu" ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
P-G: that's exactly the pint: the whole plan is aimed at killing the alternatives
<DocScrutinizer05>
point even
<DocScrutinizer05>
finally turning linux into a copy of MeeGo incl the aegis abomination and the "it's safe since you can't have root and can't install packets that are not signed by RedHat err Nokia"
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure there always will be an "open mode" - just like there was in MeeGo. Just nobody will use it and several apps will break when you nevertheless dare to use it
<DocScrutinizer05>
very smart spin doctors drafted all that. Lennart is only their silly soldier
<P-G>
:(
<P-G>
Well, I don't know enough to go about porting alternatives to different distros.
<P-G>
I imagine that would be pretty hard.
<P-G>
My linux knowledge is pretty basic.
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<DocScrutinizer05>
e.g. systemd ate udev. lsusb and a lot of other stuff depends on udev. The way it's handled now makes it virtually impossible to have a udev independent of systemd in a systemd system. So with all distros going systemd there will not survive any udev alternatives in the long run. And systemd ate at least a dozen other subsystems already, which all are meant to be under control of sysop, not under control of systemd - http://
<P-G>
The stupid thing is that I have been there, I just keep getting distracted and falling back into old habits. ;(
<P-G>
I need an intervention.
<P-G>
100cc of Debian, stat.
<PrettyKitti_>
i just moved some common things over to linux
<PrettyKitti_>
like, installed, updated, and then opened all my browser tabs
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh, sidenote: currently 968 zombie processes thanks to systemd
<PrettyKitti_>
after that, it was too inconvenient to switch back to windows :P
<PrettyKitti_>
so i slowly assimilated from there
<P-G>
I'm not entirely confortable installing a GUI on linux so I typically just use CLI. I had a nice AMD machine a while back that ran Debian for a few years as my main P.C. but then I sold it. ;(
<P-G>
I ran GUI on that because it was part of the base image.
<PrettyKitti_>
not comfortable in you dont like\trust it? or arent fully knowledgable about how to do it?
<drathir>
systemd is devil thing ;/
<P-G>
How to do it. There are a bunch of different layers and I haven't gotten them straight.
<drathir>
PrettyKitti_: m$ is extracted devil ;p
<drathir>
in pure form;p
<PrettyKitti_>
^ \o/
<PrettyKitti_>
P-G: most distros all come with the gui built-in now
<PrettyKitti_>
and you can damn near just swap them out at will :)
<drathir>
PrettyKitti_: go to arch, sadly systemd based but for now able to use...
<PrettyKitti_>
personally, i use pclinuxos as a day-to-day system. its fantastic. easy to use, designed to just work out of the box :)
<drathir>
if not possible migration to openbsd i guess...
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<PrettyKitti_>
drathir: im already a *nix user :)
<drathir>
not hear before about pclinuxos...
<P-G>
I know how to install with GUI but that doesn't really teach me how it works.
<P-G>
The main reason I would use linux is to learn more about how computers work so I want to take my time and do it properly.
<drathir>
P-G: gui mostly not give aall possibilities...
<PrettyKitti_>
P-G: gui makes the transition easier
<P-G>
Well, I'm pretty comfortable in CLI but I should know how it works.
<drathir>
P-G: go to arch than if You like learn, or fedora or openbsd...
<PrettyKitti_>
similar to windows. you could technically work in the CLI all the time. but its hard to start there, and not always the most efficient.
<PrettyKitti_>
i think its important to find the one your comfortable using. then its easy and more fun to dive deeper into learning the mechanics.
<drathir>
pacman -Ss searched_word
<P-G>
If this were about efficiency, it doesn't matter what I use. I just don't like relying on things I don't understand.
<P-G>
I ran Arch for about a year, that was nice but I do prefer Debian.
<drathir>
pcbsd is bsd easy one...
<PrettyKitti_>
P-G: but then you hit a wall where you never use anything new.
<PrettyKitti_>
gotta play with it to really learn it. and no one fully understands any OS
<P-G>
I like to think somebody does.
<drathir>
P-G: debian easier to broke bc of dependencies loop...
<drathir>
arch more modular one...
<P-G>
Hm.
<DocScrutinizer05>
P-G: well, without GUI it doesn't look TAHT nice (still not bad on terminal with ncurses) but nowadays even the installers come with X11 GUI
<drathir>
debian is great os for server in my opinion...
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<drathir>
but for daily learn and usge always on the edge in most possible up2date os in my opinion...
<P-G>
I do want to put a GUI on my computer but I don't really *need* it so I've been lazy about figuring out how to set it up.
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<PrettyKitti_>
lol install a distro with a gui
<PrettyKitti_>
and just dont use the gui unless you feel like playing with it :P
<P-G>
Drathir, I like the idea of Arch and Parabola but I am more comfortable with Debian because it's simpler. I will probably try Arch again soon but Debian also works better as a VM.
<drathir>
when out ;p
<P-G>
Kitti, yes. I should probably do that. :p
<drathir>
P-G: yes thats true debian have more packages workin out of the box if good sayin...
<drathir>
kvm+virtmanager at arch even better, bc arch is lighter than debian...
<P-G>
Doc, I have used OpenSUSE before but not for long as a P.C. You prefer that to Debian?
<P-G>
Drathir, I tried to install Arch as a VM a couple weeks ago and I couldn't get it to install. Everybody says to read the tutorial and the tutorial is terrible so I gave up.
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, i'm used to Suse since err 16 years or so (prolly longer). I just don't want to migrate, I rather try to adjust the system to my needs than to find the system that meets my needs OOTB
<P-G>
That's how you become an expert. :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm very disappointed Suse now also jmps on the systemd bandwaggon, but... see above
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'll probably migrate first time in my life when devuan becomes ready fro primetime
<P-G>
Most linux are actually pretty similar from my standpoint. All much better than the alternatives so I might as well go with the one that seems easiest and learn from there.
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, same here
<P-G>
Debian has nice compatibility, community support, and is very reliable. That's good enough for me right now.
<P-G>
In the long run, I think I will like Arch or Parabola more.
<DocScrutinizer05>
Suse is fine for people who want to tweak but not straight dive into commandline arcane mess
<P-G>
I like command line arcane mess. ;)
<P-G>
I'm not good at it, of course, but that's something I'll work on.
<DocScrutinizer05>
me too, but I admit that often I use the convenient tools rather than cmdline, even when I know (in theory) how to e.g. configure a fiewall rule on cmdline, or add a new user etc
<drathir>
P-G: arch have the best possible wiki...
<P-G>
CLI is all about scripting. I'm not a programmer but I think scripting is the most important aspect of computing.
<P-G>
Do it right once and never do it again.
<P-G>
Drathir, that's what everyone says but I don't like it. :(
<drathir>
i guess better only openbsd, but there a lot of reading until do something arch wiki is easy one step by step...
<P-G>
I like the OS and I like the people but not the websites.
<drathir>
P-G: yes is needed to switch on arch way sadly...
<drathir>
that is even harder if person before using m$...
<P-G>
I've tried following that walk-through at least five times and every time I've encountered a problem that it did not tell me how to fix. When I try to find help on the forum, people tell me to read it then ignore me.
<freemangordon>
P-G: I installed Ubuntu (with gnome-session-fallback) about an year ago, as a replacement to Windows XP.
<DocScrutinizer05>
P-G: all my sympathy with your approach towards scripting. But I learned that sometimes scripting takes longer than the 4 times you do it by hand until the whole system gets replaced by next version for which your script won't work anymore
<freemangordon>
P-G: and it simply works :)
<P-G>
Lol.
<drathir>
P-G: soon will installing also arch to vm-s, bc moved to new hdd... and goin to check if no problems...
<freemangordon>
the install process is very easy, with GUI
<P-G>
Doc, I know. I'm not that interested in scripting myself but it's nice to have the option.
<PrettyKitti_>
ubuntu would be my 2nd place recommendation to anyone making the move to linux, until they get more comfortable with the basic mechanics :)
<freemangordon>
PrettyKitti_: as a wondows replacement I would put it on 1st place
<drathir>
freemangordon: but mostly with gui no customizaation...
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure, and I do a lot of scripting myself. Just not for system management usually
<freemangordon>
*windows
<PrettyKitti_>
freemangordon: i still prefer pclinuxos over ubuntu
<freemangordon>
drathir: no customisation? why is that?
<PrettyKitti_>
but the *buntu's are fantastic too
<drathir>
honestly switch from m$ only debian...
<freemangordon>
PrettyKitti_: never seen it
<PrettyKitti_>
it really just comes down to your preferences :) pick a couple and play :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
ubuntu is a sort of a mess in my book
<drathir>
ubuntu is to much unstable with dependencies...
<PrettyKitti_>
DocScrutinizer05: i agree, but its an easy platform to start from
<DocScrutinizer05>
well
<freemangordon>
DocScrutinizer05: but does the job for Windows desktop replacement
<DocScrutinizer05>
just as Suse
<drathir>
personally ubu allowing only to version 11.04...
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, it might be more windowy
<freemangordon>
drathir: hm? can;t parse
<freemangordon>
DocScrutinizer05: and all 3rd parties support it
<drathir>
freemangordon: gui mostly give You hard option not edit by hand to Your needs...
<DocScrutinizer05>
which partially is what I hate about it
<PrettyKitti_>
wasnt ubuntu originally based on debian?
<freemangordon>
it is still based on debian
<freemangordon>
afaik
<PrettyKitti_>
theyve moved away from a lot of the core though
<drathir>
P-G: pls not compare ubu to debian ;/ that they stolen deb package system not makin ubu similar to debian, they have own strange repositories on board not connected directly to debian...
<PrettyKitti_>
made it slightly more..not proprietary but... specific i guess?
<PrettyKitti_>
like, there the normal linux command and file structure, and then there's the buntu version
<P-G>
Mhm. Focusing their target market.
<freemangordon>
wait, what?
<PrettyKitti_>
not everywhere, but just enough to make it a bit confusing when you're digging deeper into the mechanics.
<PrettyKitti_>
i dont have good examples offhand. but i ran into it a lot when i was using kubuntu and ubuntu for a couple years
<freemangordon>
what is non-standard in file structure and commands?
<P-G>
The design is just more user friendly. That means easier to learn but sometimes harder to work with.
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway last time I looked all the ubunto system management stuff at large was a clutterd mess of incoherent incomplete piecemeal
<P-G>
I have trouble with things that are user friendly though. :p
<freemangordon>
P-G: CLI is still there :)
<drathir>
im pretty sure ubu copying a lot of debian things, but still it isnt 1:1 bc of own packagers, own repository...
<infobot>
cmd: ubuntu (.*?) -- created by findlay <n=justin@67.137.24.115> at Fri May 25 20:39:59 2007 (2841 days); last modified at Fri May 25 20:42:20 2007 by findlay!n=justin@67.137.24.115; it has been requested 39 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 14m 54s ago.
<DocScrutinizer05>
~factinfo cmd: debian (.*?)
<infobot>
cmd: debian (.*?) -- created by atoponce <n=aaron@oalug/member/atoponce> at Fri May 25 21:10:50 2007 (2841 days); last modified at Fri May 25 21:13:06 2007 by atoponce!n=aaron@oalug/member/atoponce; it has been requested 63 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 15m 30s ago.
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<DocScrutinizer05>
dunno if the implied still holds true - I'm neither in #debian nor in #ubuntu
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway it seems like the more relevant question boils down to "which DE?". Gnome description in http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/GNOME mostly sounds like parody to the point to me
<DocScrutinizer05>
didn't 2we" do exactly that some err 12 months or so ago?
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<Pali>
we did it for garage.maemo.org
<Pali>
and it was clonned to gitorious.org
<Pali>
nice :D
<DocScrutinizer05>
when gitorious anounced that they want payment for subdomain projects which got misinterpreted as "gitorious will stop hosting maemo projects"
<Pali>
it means that gitorious deleted page meego.gitorious.org
<Pali>
but they did not deleted subprojects
<DocScrutinizer05>
exactly
<Pali>
all projctes were FOSS and so they were hosted
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway most likely a topic rather for #maemo than for this channel, or me
<DocScrutinizer05>
unless you say it's driven by you as a part of FPTF which Neo900 UG promised to support
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess techstaff is the right addressee for this issue
<DocScrutinizer05>
at least considering competence
<DocScrutinizer05>
otherwise - for responsibility - it's council
<DocScrutinizer05>
and when it comes to finding a new home, it's maybe HiFo to make the contracts
<DocScrutinizer05>
unless those who think new is leete and thus better have changed all that recently
<DocScrutinizer05>
for all I know HiFo resp MCeV could be responsible for everything incl coding of new apps now, and council only allowed to fetch the letter mail for them
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<DocScrutinizer05>
and also for all I know estel could be president of all that
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<Pali>
I think better will be to clone all repos to github
* infobot
tells FIQ to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh funny, it strips punctuation marks
<FIQ>
~slackware FIQ
<FIQ>
aw
<DocScrutinizer05>
doesn't exist, I already checked :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
~listkeys slackware
<infobot>
Factoid search of 'slackware' by key (12): nom slackware ;; slackware help ;; love slackware ;; slackwarez ;; be slackware barbie ;; debian2slackware ;; slackware 3.6 ;; slackware_kid ;; slackware 2.3 ;; slackware ;; slackware, ;; slackware 3.5.
<DocScrutinizer05>
~litertal slackware,
<DocScrutinizer05>
ugh
<DocScrutinizer05>
~litertal 'slackware,'
<DocScrutinizer05>
~litertal "slackware,"
<DocScrutinizer05>
dang
<DocScrutinizer05>
~listkeys slackware,
<infobot>
Factoid search of 'slackware,' by key (1): slackware,.
<DocScrutinizer05>
~factinfo slackware,
<infobot>
slackware, -- created by chillywilly <baumannd@d82.as29.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net> at Sat Dec 23 06:38:46 2000 (5186 days); it has been requested 2 times, last by pcj at Fri Nov 21 10:46:58 2008.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess that one is stuck by bug
<DocScrutinizer05>
Well, the MySQL admin could clean it out at database level
<DocScrutinizer05>
afaik there's also a wildcard option for bot admins, which I happen to be one of them. Alas I don't know how to use it, and I've been warned about that command by Tim
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