DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #neo900 to: http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ and http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900
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<jonwil> hi
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<DocScrutinizer05> OHLOL, sparkfun updated their BB-xM page: >>We expect some of these to arrive next on Apr 12, 2018.<<
<DocScrutinizer05> ARE YOU KIDDING???
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<DocScrutinizer05> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9978 last time i looked it said >>>We expect some of these to arrive next on Mar 5 2015<<
<P-G> Lol...
<Wizzup> they probably mistyped
<P-G> Or they have really bad projections. :p
<DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: I suspected that too, but then...
<DocScrutinizer05> feels similar to what the chinese sellers do on ebay when they can't deliver: rather than removing the offer they change it from $$ to $$$$$
<P-G> Honestly, that sort of mistake would be enough to make me never use them again. Trust is important.
<DocScrutinizer05> mouser has those BB-xN "on order. Estimated stock refill time: 8 weeks" since 8 months now
<MonkeyofDoom> that's such garbage
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<DocScrutinizer05> well, mouser sent me a mail about them hoping to get the board I ordered during next 6 weeks
<DocScrutinizer05> boards (plural)
<DocScrutinizer05> so possibly sparkfun actually got a limited number of boards, satified the pending orders, and 2018 is thier semi-automatic prognosis for next batch based on statistics
<DocScrutinizer05> who (except sparkfun) knows
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<DocScrutinizer05> ~systemd evil is http://privatepaste.com/3612d88a0b
<infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
<DocScrutinizer05> ~boycottsystemd is http://privatepaste.com/3612d88a0b
<infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
<DocScrutinizer05> ~no, systemd evil is <reply>see boycottsystemd
<DocScrutinizer05> infobot: no, systemd evil is <reply>see boycottsystemd
<infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
<DocScrutinizer05> ~systemd evil
<infobot> rumour has it, boycottsystemd is http://privatepaste.com/3612d88a0b
<P-G> Hm.
<P-G> ~systemd
<infobot> systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, Harald Hoyer, Daniel Mack, Tom Gundersen, David Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel, or see http://boycottsystemd.org/, or http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ https://devuan.org
<P-G> :p
<DocScrutinizer05> the original website is dead, but yeah, I should fix that too
<DocScrutinizer05> actually the http://boycottsystemd.org/ being dead and even eradicated from wayback and archive was the reason I posted it to pastebin
<DocScrutinizer05> go have your own theory on *why* the site went south
<DocScrutinizer05> smells like DoS or even C&D
<P-G> Those Systemd guys are pretty hardcore.
<P-G> What happened to the website?
<wpwrak> probably abducted the site operators to some torture camp in the jungle
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<DocScrutinizer05> "an offer they couldn't resist"
<P-G> D:
<DocScrutinizer05> wild guessing, I dunno
<P-G> Weird though.
<P-G> Not like Systemd is an institution.
<wpwrak> it's more an invasion ...
<DocScrutinizer05> systemd is part of RH's plan to conquer the world
<DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
<P-G> Well, as long as there are alternatives available.
<wpwrak> if you've seen "mars attacks", that was the pg-13 version of what awaits with systemd
<DocScrutinizer05> that plan been carefully thought of and stage-managed
<wpwrak> or was it "the call of cthulhu" ?
<DocScrutinizer05> P-G: that's exactly the pint: the whole plan is aimed at killing the alternatives
<DocScrutinizer05> point even
<DocScrutinizer05> finally turning linux into a copy of MeeGo incl the aegis abomination and the "it's safe since you can't have root and can't install packets that are not signed by RedHat err Nokia"
<DocScrutinizer05> sure there always will be an "open mode" - just like there was in MeeGo. Just nobody will use it and several apps will break when you nevertheless dare to use it
<DocScrutinizer05> very smart spin doctors drafted all that. Lennart is only their silly soldier
<P-G> :(
<P-G> Well, I don't know enough to go about porting alternatives to different distros.
<P-G> I imagine that would be pretty hard.
<P-G> My linux knowledge is pretty basic.
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<DocScrutinizer05> e.g. systemd ate udev. lsusb and a lot of other stuff depends on udev. The way it's handled now makes it virtually impossible to have a udev independent of systemd in a systemd system. So with all distros going systemd there will not survive any udev alternatives in the long run. And systemd ate at least a dozen other subsystems already, which all are meant to be under control of sysop, not under control of systemd - http://
<DocScrutinizer05> devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/112502661235/watching-systemd-evolve
<infobot> DocScrutinizer05: okay
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<P-G> Yeah, that sounds like Windows.
<P-G> And Windows sounds like Mac. :p
<PrettyKitti_> yay, windows! D:
<PrettyKitti_> anybody body?
<PrettyKitti_> no?
<P-G> Well, I do use it.
<P-G> I also use linux but not enough.
<PrettyKitti_> its ok
<PrettyKitti_> we'll get you there :P
<P-G> The stupid thing is that I have been there, I just keep getting distracted and falling back into old habits. ;(
<P-G> I need an intervention.
<P-G> 100cc of Debian, stat.
<PrettyKitti_> i just moved some common things over to linux
<PrettyKitti_> like, installed, updated, and then opened all my browser tabs
<DocScrutinizer05> ooh, sidenote: currently 968 zombie processes thanks to systemd
<PrettyKitti_> after that, it was too inconvenient to switch back to windows :P
<PrettyKitti_> so i slowly assimilated from there
<P-G> I'm not entirely confortable installing a GUI on linux so I typically just use CLI. I had a nice AMD machine a while back that ran Debian for a few years as my main P.C. but then I sold it. ;(
<P-G> I ran GUI on that because it was part of the base image.
<PrettyKitti_> not comfortable in you dont like\trust it? or arent fully knowledgable about how to do it?
<drathir> systemd is devil thing ;/
<P-G> How to do it. There are a bunch of different layers and I haven't gotten them straight.
<drathir> PrettyKitti_: m$ is extracted devil ;p
<drathir> in pure form;p
<PrettyKitti_> ^ \o/
<PrettyKitti_> P-G: most distros all come with the gui built-in now
<PrettyKitti_> and you can damn near just swap them out at will :)
<drathir> PrettyKitti_: go to arch, sadly systemd based but for now able to use...
<PrettyKitti_> personally, i use pclinuxos as a day-to-day system. its fantastic. easy to use, designed to just work out of the box :)
<drathir> if not possible migration to openbsd i guess...
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<PrettyKitti_> drathir: im already a *nix user :)
<drathir> not hear before about pclinuxos...
<P-G> I know how to install with GUI but that doesn't really teach me how it works.
<P-G> The main reason I would use linux is to learn more about how computers work so I want to take my time and do it properly.
<drathir> P-G: gui mostly not give aall possibilities...
<PrettyKitti_> P-G: gui makes the transition easier
<PrettyKitti_> then you can reach out from there
<P-G> Well, I'm pretty comfortable in CLI but I should know how it works.
<drathir> P-G: go to arch than if You like learn, or fedora or openbsd...
<PrettyKitti_> similar to windows. you could technically work in the CLI all the time. but its hard to start there, and not always the most efficient.
<PrettyKitti_> i think its important to find the one your comfortable using. then its easy and more fun to dive deeper into learning the mechanics.
<drathir> pacman -Ss searched_word
<P-G> If this were about efficiency, it doesn't matter what I use. I just don't like relying on things I don't understand.
<P-G> I ran Arch for about a year, that was nice but I do prefer Debian.
<drathir> pcbsd is bsd easy one...
<PrettyKitti_> P-G: but then you hit a wall where you never use anything new.
<PrettyKitti_> gotta play with it to really learn it. and no one fully understands any OS
<P-G> I like to think somebody does.
<drathir> P-G: debian easier to broke bc of dependencies loop...
<drathir> arch more modular one...
<P-G> Hm.
<DocScrutinizer05> P-G: well, without GUI it doesn't look TAHT nice (still not bad on terminal with ncurses) but nowadays even the installers come with X11 GUI
<drathir> debian is great os for server in my opinion...
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<drathir> but for daily learn and usge always on the edge in most possible up2date os in my opinion...
<P-G> I do want to put a GUI on my computer but I don't really *need* it so I've been lazy about figuring out how to set it up.
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<PrettyKitti_> lol install a distro with a gui
<PrettyKitti_> and just dont use the gui unless you feel like playing with it :P
<drathir> last time ubu 11.04... ;p
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe simply start here: http://software.opensuse.org/132/en
<P-G> Drathir, I like the idea of Arch and Parabola but I am more comfortable with Debian because it's simpler. I will probably try Arch again soon but Debian also works better as a VM.
<drathir> when out ;p
<P-G> Kitti, yes. I should probably do that. :p
<drathir> P-G: yes thats true debian have more packages workin out of the box if good sayin...
<drathir> kvm+virtmanager at arch even better, bc arch is lighter than debian...
<P-G> Doc, I have used OpenSUSE before but not for long as a P.C. You prefer that to Debian?
<DocScrutinizer05> starting at http://software.opensuse.org/132/en will eventually give you http://wstaw.org/m/2015/03/06/plasma-desktopte1893.png during installation process
<P-G> Drathir, I tried to install Arch as a VM a couple weeks ago and I couldn't get it to install. Everybody says to read the tutorial and the tutorial is terrible so I gave up.
<DocScrutinizer05> well, i'm used to Suse since err 16 years or so (prolly longer). I just don't want to migrate, I rather try to adjust the system to my needs than to find the system that meets my needs OOTB
<P-G> That's how you become an expert. :)
<DocScrutinizer05> I'm very disappointed Suse now also jmps on the systemd bandwaggon, but... see above
<DocScrutinizer05> I'll probably migrate first time in my life when devuan becomes ready fro primetime
<P-G> Most linux are actually pretty similar from my standpoint. All much better than the alternatives so I might as well go with the one that seems easiest and learn from there.
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, same here
<P-G> Debian has nice compatibility, community support, and is very reliable. That's good enough for me right now.
<P-G> In the long run, I think I will like Arch or Parabola more.
<DocScrutinizer05> Suse is fine for people who want to tweak but not straight dive into commandline arcane mess
<P-G> I like command line arcane mess. ;)
<P-G> I'm not good at it, of course, but that's something I'll work on.
<DocScrutinizer05> me too, but I admit that often I use the convenient tools rather than cmdline, even when I know (in theory) how to e.g. configure a fiewall rule on cmdline, or add a new user etc
<drathir> P-G: arch have the best possible wiki...
<P-G> CLI is all about scripting. I'm not a programmer but I think scripting is the most important aspect of computing.
<P-G> Do it right once and never do it again.
<P-G> Drathir, that's what everyone says but I don't like it. :(
<drathir> i guess better only openbsd, but there a lot of reading until do something arch wiki is easy one step by step...
<P-G> I like the OS and I like the people but not the websites.
<drathir> P-G: yes is needed to switch on arch way sadly...
<drathir> that is even harder if person before using m$...
<P-G> I've tried following that walk-through at least five times and every time I've encountered a problem that it did not tell me how to fix. When I try to find help on the forum, people tell me to read it then ignore me.
<freemangordon> P-G: I installed Ubuntu (with gnome-session-fallback) about an year ago, as a replacement to Windows XP.
<DocScrutinizer05> P-G: all my sympathy with your approach towards scripting. But I learned that sometimes scripting takes longer than the 4 times you do it by hand until the whole system gets replaced by next version for which your script won't work anymore
<freemangordon> P-G: and it simply works :)
<P-G> Lol.
<drathir> P-G: soon will installing also arch to vm-s, bc moved to new hdd... and goin to check if no problems...
<freemangordon> the install process is very easy, with GUI
<P-G> Doc, I know. I'm not that interested in scripting myself but it's nice to have the option.
<PrettyKitti_> ubuntu would be my 2nd place recommendation to anyone making the move to linux, until they get more comfortable with the basic mechanics :)
<freemangordon> PrettyKitti_: as a wondows replacement I would put it on 1st place
<drathir> freemangordon: but mostly with gui no customizaation...
<DocScrutinizer05> sure, and I do a lot of scripting myself. Just not for system management usually
<freemangordon> *windows
<PrettyKitti_> freemangordon: i still prefer pclinuxos over ubuntu
<freemangordon> drathir: no customisation? why is that?
<PrettyKitti_> but the *buntu's are fantastic too
<drathir> honestly switch from m$ only debian...
<freemangordon> PrettyKitti_: never seen it
<PrettyKitti_> it really just comes down to your preferences :) pick a couple and play :)
<DocScrutinizer05> ubuntu is a sort of a mess in my book
<drathir> ubuntu is to much unstable with dependencies...
<PrettyKitti_> DocScrutinizer05: i agree, but its an easy platform to start from
<DocScrutinizer05> well
<freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: but does the job for Windows desktop replacement
<DocScrutinizer05> just as Suse
<drathir> personally ubu allowing only to version 11.04...
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, it might be more windowy
<freemangordon> drathir: hm? can;t parse
<freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: and all 3rd parties support it
<drathir> freemangordon: gui mostly give You hard option not edit by hand to Your needs...
<DocScrutinizer05> which partially is what I hate about it
<DocScrutinizer05> ~buntkuh
<P-G> Ubuntu is very similar to Debian but more focused on P.C. use. I have not tried Ubuntu Server editions.
<P-G> I think it's a good option but I want to get my hands dirty and Debian is very well established.
<freemangordon> actually maemo servers use ubuntu server ;P
<DocScrutinizer05> and of course http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/GNOME in buntkuh, right? otherwise it was kuntbuh
<PrettyKitti_> wasnt ubuntu originally based on debian?
<freemangordon> it is still based on debian
<freemangordon> afaik
<PrettyKitti_> theyve moved away from a lot of the core though
<drathir> P-G: pls not compare ubu to debian ;/ that they stolen deb package system not makin ubu similar to debian, they have own strange repositories on board not connected directly to debian...
<PrettyKitti_> made it slightly more..not proprietary but... specific i guess?
<PrettyKitti_> like, there the normal linux command and file structure, and then there's the buntu version
<P-G> Mhm. Focusing their target market.
<freemangordon> wait, what?
<PrettyKitti_> not everywhere, but just enough to make it a bit confusing when you're digging deeper into the mechanics.
<PrettyKitti_> i dont have good examples offhand. but i ran into it a lot when i was using kubuntu and ubuntu for a couple years
<freemangordon> what is non-standard in file structure and commands?
<P-G> The design is just more user friendly. That means easier to learn but sometimes harder to work with.
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway last time I looked all the ubunto system management stuff at large was a clutterd mess of incoherent incomplete piecemeal
<P-G> I have trouble with things that are user friendly though. :p
<freemangordon> P-G: CLI is still there :)
<drathir> im pretty sure ubu copying a lot of debian things, but still it isnt 1:1 bc of own packagers, own repository...
<DocScrutinizer05> compare Xast (suse): http://wstaw.org/m/2015/03/06/plasma-desktopnu1893.png
<freemangordon> drathir: which is not a bad thing per se
<DocScrutinizer05> Yast even
<P-G> Freemangordon: Yup. It's still a fine distro of linux and I've used it and I recommend it.
<freemangordon> :nod:
<drathir> ubu is ticking a bomb in my opinion... like aalways takin somethin and remaake to "own" strange vision...
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<P-G> I hope so too.
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<drathir> P-G: its np...
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<DocScrutinizer05> ~debian drathir
* infobot tells drathir to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
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<DocScrutinizer05> ~ubuntu P-G
* infobot lovingly explains to P-G in a way that causes P-G to weep with gratitude that P-G must read the fine, friendly manual
<DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
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<PrettyKitti_> *nix for e'rbody! \o/
<drathir> DocScrutinizer05: nice...
<drathir> infobot: botsnack
<infobot> drathir: :)
<DocScrutinizer05> ~factinfo ubuntu
<infobot> ubuntu -- last modified at Tue Oct 25 18:33:34 2005 by sinplomo; it has been requested 26 times, last by dob1 at Mon Jan 19 17:01:29 2015.
<DocScrutinizer05> ~listkeys ubuntu
<infobot> Factoid search of 'ubuntu' by key (11): xubuntu ;; debian-ubuntu ;; kubuntu ;; #ubuntu-us-ut why ;; cmd: ubuntusmite (.*?) ;; ubuntu rocks ;; ubuntu ;; cmd: ubuntu (.*?) ;; ubuntu-en ;; edubuntu ;; ubuntu-tomcat.
<DocScrutinizer05> ~factinfo cmd: ubuntu (.*?)
<infobot> cmd: ubuntu (.*?) -- created by findlay <n=justin@67.137.24.115> at Fri May 25 20:39:59 2007 (2841 days); last modified at Fri May 25 20:42:20 2007 by findlay!n=justin@67.137.24.115; it has been requested 39 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 14m 54s ago.
<DocScrutinizer05> ~factinfo cmd: debian (.*?)
<infobot> cmd: debian (.*?) -- created by atoponce <n=aaron@oalug/member/atoponce> at Fri May 25 21:10:50 2007 (2841 days); last modified at Fri May 25 21:13:06 2007 by atoponce!n=aaron@oalug/member/atoponce; it has been requested 63 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 15m 30s ago.
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<DocScrutinizer05> dunno if the implied still holds true - I'm neither in #debian nor in #ubuntu
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway it seems like the more relevant question boils down to "which DE?". Gnome description in http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/GNOME mostly sounds like parody to the point to me
<DocScrutinizer05> as well as the sidenote on KDE
<DocScrutinizer05> ubuntu comes with gnome
<PrettyKitti_> kubuntu comes with kde
<PrettyKitti_> xubuntu = xfce
<DocScrutinizer05> and xkcd will have a reason for http://xkcd.com/424/
<PrettyKitti_> <xkcd
<PrettyKitti_> er..
<PrettyKitti_> <3 xkcd
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<Pali> I suggest to backup all repos from http://maemo.gitorious.org
<Pali> and also all from meego
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<DocScrutinizer05> didn't 2we" do exactly that some err 12 months or so ago?
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<Pali> we did it for garage.maemo.org
<Pali> and it was clonned to gitorious.org
<Pali> nice :D
<DocScrutinizer05> when gitorious anounced that they want payment for subdomain projects which got misinterpreted as "gitorious will stop hosting maemo projects"
<Pali> it means that gitorious deleted page meego.gitorious.org
<Pali> but they did not deleted subprojects
<DocScrutinizer05> exactly
<Pali> all projctes were FOSS and so they were hosted
<DocScrutinizer05> same for maemo iirc
<Pali> no, maemo still exists
<Pali> somebody must pay for ir
<Pali> Nokia forget for what they pay? :D
<Pali> or MS
<Pali> ?
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway I seem to remember somebody (even you?) did backup all maemo-at-large related stuff from gitorious back when
<Pali> no, I backup garage to gitorious
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway most likely a topic rather for #maemo than for this channel, or me
<DocScrutinizer05> unless you say it's driven by you as a part of FPTF which Neo900 UG promised to support
<DocScrutinizer05> I guess techstaff is the right addressee for this issue
<DocScrutinizer05> at least considering competence
<DocScrutinizer05> otherwise - for responsibility - it's council
<DocScrutinizer05> and when it comes to finding a new home, it's maybe HiFo to make the contracts
<DocScrutinizer05> unless those who think new is leete and thus better have changed all that recently
<DocScrutinizer05> for all I know HiFo resp MCeV could be responsible for everything incl coding of new apps now, and council only allowed to fetch the letter mail for them
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<DocScrutinizer05> and also for all I know estel could be president of all that
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<Pali> I think better will be to clone all repos to github
<Pali> its free and used by lot of people
<Pali> and looks like github is working
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<FIQ> ~slackware
<infobot> from memory, slackware is for when you're feeling lazy. http://www.slackware.com
<FIQ> ~debian
<FIQ> w/e
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<DocScrutinizer05> ~debian FIQ??
* infobot tells FIQ to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
<DocScrutinizer05> ooh funny, it strips punctuation marks
<FIQ> ~slackware FIQ
<FIQ> aw
<DocScrutinizer05> doesn't exist, I already checked :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> ~listkeys slackware
<infobot> Factoid search of 'slackware' by key (12): nom slackware ;; slackware help ;; love slackware ;; slackwarez ;; be slackware barbie ;; debian2slackware ;; slackware 3.6 ;; slackware_kid ;; slackware 2.3 ;; slackware ;; slackware, ;; slackware 3.5.
<DocScrutinizer05> ~litertal slackware,
<DocScrutinizer05> ugh
<DocScrutinizer05> ~litertal 'slackware,'
<DocScrutinizer05> ~litertal "slackware,"
<DocScrutinizer05> dang
<DocScrutinizer05> ~listkeys slackware,
<infobot> Factoid search of 'slackware,' by key (1): slackware,.
<DocScrutinizer05> ~factinfo slackware,
<infobot> slackware, -- created by chillywilly <baumannd@d82.as29.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net> at Sat Dec 23 06:38:46 2000 (5186 days); it has been requested 2 times, last by pcj at Fri Nov 21 10:46:58 2008.
<DocScrutinizer05> I guess that one is stuck by bug
<DocScrutinizer05> Well, the MySQL admin could clean it out at database level
<DocScrutinizer05> afaik there's also a wildcard option for bot admins, which I happen to be one of them. Alas I don't know how to use it, and I've been warned about that command by Tim
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