<DocScrutinizer51>
(( So it turned out to be easier to hunt down refurbished N900 devices, complete, than to look for separate parts...)) yes exactly
<DocScrutinizer51>
((Is the main flex ribbon going to be affected )) no
<DocScrutinizer51>
on a sidenote: to secure my own health I'm be afk next week
<bencoh>
oh .... take care
<bencoh>
shall we take your keyboard and pocket devices away from you to make sure you trully are afk ? :p
<DocScrutinizer51>
would be reasonable but hard to accomplish
<DocScrutinizer51>
honestly holiday from internet isn't even needed. Just some new air to breathe, and warm weather
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<owenh>
Hi, is anyone interested in OEM Nokia cables shipped with N900? AV cable, USB cable, charger
<owenh>
I have all 3 that were originally shipped with the N900s if someone is interested.
<DocScrutinizer05>
owenh: you probably should ask in #maemo
<DocScrutinizer05>
we are dealing with quantities of 500 or 1000 here
<owenh>
Okay, I will ask there. Thank you.
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<DocScrutinizer05>
yw, please stay tuned for news about the only phone that really respects and protects/defends your freedom and privacy
<owenh>
I am already subscribed! What happened to part 3 of the July Trilogy? Or was it a trilogy in 2 parts?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, sadly
<DocScrutinizer05>
part 3 never made it
<DocScrutinizer05>
we ran short of inspiration for part3
<DocScrutinizer05>
also part 3 headline was "the future", and you know... nobody knows the future
<owenh>
Yeah! :)
<owenh>
But do keep the news coming.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm trying to, mostly in here
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
latest news: we built first 1GB BeagleBoard-xM *ever*
<owenh>
But people need to see it on the website, and in email for those who are subscribed.
<owenh>
Is there any update on the estimated price of the motherboard when finished? Still 500-700 EUR?
<DocScrutinizer05>
((email)) dos1 is working on it
<DocScrutinizer05>
more like 700
<DocScrutinizer05>
we added some goodies that were not planned initially
<DocScrutinizer05>
1GB costs a ~30 bucks to start with
<DocScrutinizer05>
and the bulk discount didn't really pan out
<DocScrutinizer05>
it startes at 1000..2000, we are at 400 now
<Oksana>
400? 500? 450? /Thorough check of numbers could be helpful.../ And yes, I understand that with 30 bucks each, ordering 1000 is too costly to attempt... Though, it would have been brilliant :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
though to be honest, we still have no reliable price estimations since we haven't sourced the components yet
<DocScrutinizer05>
Oksana: sorry?
<Oksana>
It would have been brilliant if it was possible to manufacture 1000 Neo900 with 1GB RAM. But I understand that there should be more like 800 pre-orders for that...
<DocScrutinizer05>
Oksana: we are at ~400 devices preorders/to-build. And we have a error margin of +/-15 on that. And ordering 1000 RAM chips is exactly what we plan to do
<Oksana>
:-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
the evaluation and R&D was >60% of the cost for 1GB
<Oksana>
So, the discount does not happen even when ordering 1000?..
<DocScrutinizer05>
however for e.g. the N900 mech parts this isn't feasible at all
<DocScrutinizer05>
no, for the RAM chips no significant discount at 1000
<Oksana>
/Unless somebody starts 3D printing the mechanical parts.../
<DocScrutinizer05>
3D-printing LCDs?
<DocScrutinizer05>
or digitizers?
<DocScrutinizer05>
afk, n8
<Oksana>
Why do not the manufacturers still create such LCDs, new? Not enough demand on the market?
<Oksana>
Good night :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
((Why do not the manufacturers)) they sort of do: 40 bucks per LCD, questionable compatibility/quality
<wpwrak>
FDM-print the rough shape, then put the display content on it, printed with high resolution on paper :)
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<Oksana>
267dpi... That's much higher than 40lpi of Lenticular technology (moving non-electronic images...) By the way, combination of stereoscopic-lenticular and high-resolution electronic display behind it would allow moving 3D pictures... That's interesting, because it provides use-case for displays with resolution higher than what human eyes can see... And for super-powerful graphical processors,...
<Oksana>
...which would be super-hungry and require super-batteries...
<Oksana>
As of 2010, a number of manufacturers were developing auto-stereoscopic high definition 3D televisions, using lenticular lens systems to avoid the need for special spectacles... Wondering if anybody is doing such "mobile phones" - likely not, since it would require much higher electronic-display resolution...
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<DocScrutinizer05>
the Neo900 is a category of device completely distinct from shitphones of any price segment and brand. "It's *not* a phone" as they said about N900 already
<enyc>
DocScrutinizer05: =)
<P-G>
Well written.
<P-G>
Neo900 is not a shit-anything. It is significantly better than the competition.
<kerio>
neo900 is not a consumer device
<kerio>
it will never be shittified
<kerio>
or bought in any remarkable amount
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's to the point, yes
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05 is literally throwing money in the fire
<kerio>
to get a pleasing sense of warmth
<DocScrutinizer05>
it a niche market product made for people that have very special requirements
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05: <3
<P-G>
I still hope it will be marketable. I know it's not realistic but it really should be very popular.
<P-G>
People should want a better phone.
<kerio>
it won't be popular
<kerio>
it can't be popular
<kerio>
the n900 wasn't popular
<kerio>
and it was hyped and marketed by a giant company
<P-G>
I don't have much interest in an n900. I do have interest in Neo900. Why is that?
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, not really, to behonest
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think Nokia did a poor job on marketing the N900
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I seem to recall we discussed exactly this only a few days ago in here
<P-G>
Also, they were a small player in a big industry. We have all sorts of advantages in our current economy.
<P-G>
We need huge sales numbers to significantly decrease price per phone, sure, but we don't need to decrease price per phone to sell phones.
<P-G>
There are a lot of people in the world who would but one for a stupid price if they knew why it were better.
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<P-G>
Buy*
<DocScrutinizer05>
and tbh we're still same price segment as the arbitrary fruitphone
<kerio>
yeah but from a consumer perspective, you're selling a premium shitphone
<kerio>
hell, not even that, because it's not going to run recent android like premium shitphones or flagship devices
<P-G>
There are a lot of different types of consumers. It's all about marketing.
<kerio>
i meant consumer as in my aunt
<DocScrutinizer05>
those who complain about lower ratings of Neo900 compared to $spyPhone should jsutify for significantly lower price tag are just looking at the wrong specsheet
<P-G>
Security, open source, and DIY phone are all major selling points to people who tend to have some extra money laying around.
<P-G>
They are also trending markets.
<DocScrutinizer05>
when we use *our* list of key features as a basis for comparison, we beat any random $smartphone hands down
<P-G>
The OS issue is valid though.
<DocScrutinizer05>
which OS issue?
<P-G>
An OS that is reliable and easy to use for consumers.
<DocScrutinizer05>
we offer the _only_ phone that's capable of running _different_ OS, even basically any OS you like
<P-G>
Right, but what do we ship with?
<P-G>
Debian can't really compete with Android for phone user experience, can it?
<DocScrutinizer05>
nothing, just like your ASUS PC mainboard
<DocScrutinizer05>
why does hardware always need to ship with OS?
<P-G>
Well, for the consumer. It makes the phone a lot easier to sell.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't care
<P-G>
Fair enough.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't do this project to *sell*
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<P-G>
Well, it would be a nice bonus...
<DocScrutinizer05>
I do this project for the love of freedom
<P-G>
Well, that's admirable but you put a lot of time into it. I think you should try to make some money as well.
<P-G>
Being compatible with as many OS as possible is good, of course, but it doesn't hurt to ship with something.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I won't compromise the purpose of the project for making my own bargain from it. Nice if it pans out in the end but that never been the primary idea behind it
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I can make a living for now, means I'm not starving (a lot, at least). That's just good enough antil we start sales. Then we'll see how stuff develops
<DocScrutinizer05>
until*
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<P-G>
Ok. For the record though, I do think you should ship with something. It won't hurt anybody and it will help some people. More money for the project means more future development.
<DocScrutinizer05>
you know OpenMoko had millions of funds from $FIC_et_al and we reached the profit zone after >2 years
<P-G>
Isn't that good?
<DocScrutinizer05>
Neo900 won't ship with a ready-for-daily-use OS. We will ship with a "wizard" (how I hate that term) for helping user getting the OS if their choice installed
<DocScrutinizer05>
at least that's the plan, though no warranted product feature
<DocScrutinizer05>
when you think you can sell hundreds or 1000s of Neo900 value-added by a complete OS you take care about maintenence thereof, feel invited to talk to me via mail about special conditions when you order and downpay a few 1000 already ;-)
<P-G>
Lol, ok. When I finally get my hands on one maybe I will. ;)
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05: admit it, you're doing this because designing a mobile phone without caring for profit is like an engineer's dream
<DocScrutinizer05>
guilty ;-)
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<SylvieLorxu>
DocScrutinizer05: What about a tablet next? ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't see how to bring any of the goodies of Neo900 concept to a tablet. I think the market is already occupied
<SylvieLorxu>
DocScrutinizer05: It could come with a non-shitty OS, maybe :P
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<SylvieLorxu>
Honestly, I'm still sad about the KDE Vivaldi dying...
<DocScrutinizer05>
tablet with hw-kbd? tablet with intrinsic security by sandboxing of whichever rogue subsystems? tablet with maemo and and community and existing app pool?
* Oksana
would rather rig-up some kind of projector-3Doutputsystem to Neo900...
<Oksana>
Though it's insanely power-hungry...
<DocScrutinizer05>
THAT would be awesome, yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually I alread looked into that option a long time
<DocScrutinizer05>
not 3D maybe - though that's more a question of the right goggles
<DocScrutinizer05>
but nano-projector
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<DocScrutinizer05>
and maybe even laser projectng kbd too, though I guess that's as shitty an experience as it can get, even worste than vkbd on touchscreen
<dos1>
reminds me of that android-based freerunner modification, which initially promised integrated projector and laser keyboard :D
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehehe
<Oksana>
All auto-stereoscopic displays in mobile phones are based on parallax barrier. Lenticular technology would have been less power-hungry (like, 5 times less power-hungry for the same brightness and other parameters). But, it seems that lenticular is only just being introduced to TVs...
<DocScrutinizer05>
the smallest projectors meanwhile are like 6 sugar cibes
<DocScrutinizer05>
cubes*
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<Oksana>
"right goggles" 3D means that you are given only two angles of view. auto-stereoscopic displays allow far more angles of view - at the cost of sacrificing resolution, of course. If you want to have 4 images at the same time, it means 4-times-worse resolution than it would have been otherwise?..
<DocScrutinizer05>
we're just mixing stuff. Projectors are not same as stereoscopic display
<Oksana>
Yes :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
basically any display technology can do 3D with according shutter goggles and doubled framerate
<Oksana>
Yes... Would require excellent synchronisation, but yes...
<DocScrutinizer05>
for autostereoscopic displays there are a few alternative technology approaches
<DocScrutinizer05>
they basically either use the cylinder lens foil effect which defines basically a limited fixed set of viewing points where left eye sees the even pixels and right eye sees the odd pixels, or they use eyetracking and whatever taergeting mechanism up to possibly even holograms
<DocScrutinizer05>
aka wave front synthesizing
<Oksana>
By the way, why does the lend have to be lenticular? If they had rectangular lenses (one lens covering mxn pixels), then it would allow for different images not only when changing angle of view in one direction (m angles of view), but also when changing angle of view in a different direction (n angles of view)?
<arossdotme>
SylvieLorxu: the tablet isn't dead yet, see rhombus-tech.net and check out the mailing list
<DocScrutinizer05>
recently a company allegedly has registered patents where each pixel(SIC!) is an own 3 color laser with a mirror actuator, to project different picture to arbitrary number of visitor's eyes
<DocScrutinizer05>
hell, that may be a machine
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe 2287 they will present first prototype ;-)
<Oksana>
Moving parts are prone to breaking, yes...
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I guess the misquito killer comes as a convenience feature with such display X-P
<DocScrutinizer05>
mosqi*
<DocScrutinizer05>
they got all it needs: high precision target tracking, lots of laser power (when focused and all at full power), and ultrafast actuation
<Oksana>
Heh... A virus would make a user go blind through use of such over-powered focusing...