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<dal2>
I am really looking forward to the Neo900 since it's so much more trustworthy security-wise than what's out there
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep, that's true
<P-G>
Very exciting. :)
<dal2>
but I need to get a new phone now as well, so if you had to pick from standard commercial phones that are rootable,
<P-G>
"Rootable".
<dal2>
what would you do in terms of disk encryption...I realize basically the enduser device isn't trustworthy, nor the disk encryption really, but if protecting files on the phone is your only concern...
<DocScrutinizer05>
N900 or Jolla
<P-G>
Motorolla sells some models with unlocked boot loaders if you want something modern.
<dal2>
okay let me look for a bit, thanks
<P-G>
They're stupid expensive and the firmware isn't secure but I would use one if Neo900 wasn't in the making.
<DocScrutinizer05>
some users are going for ubuntuphone bow. I never looked into it, and I guess it doesn't deliver on the promises, but in the end it's up to you
<P-G>
Ubuntu has a hardware phone?
<dal2>
I think the N900 would make the most sense because it'd prepare me a bit for the Neo900 since Neo900 is based on the N900, yes?
<dal2>
And you're considering adapting Maemo for Neo900?
<P-G>
This Ubuntu phone is interesting but not really impressive. It says open source but does that include the firmware? I thought Ubuntu used proprietary blobs.
<P-G>
I think I'm going to try Replicant pretty soon. I'm getting really pissed at my phone.
<DocScrutinizer05>
P-G: FPTF is about Neo900
<DocScrutinizer05>
read the thread topic
<DocScrutinizer05>
subject
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>the Fremantle Porting Task Force, or "how to run maemo on Neo900"<<
<P-G>
Yes, I understand. I looked it up. :p
<P-G>
Do you prefer Maemo to Replicant?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
me? clearly maemo
<P-G>
Why? I really don't know much about either of them.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I prefer a true *nix system with everything running much the way I'm used to, over an android that has lots of apps but no decent unix userland
<P-G>
Hm.
<P-G>
But Meamo is preferable to actual debian because it has some apps and is more designed for phone use?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, exactly
<DocScrutinizer05>
maemo basically is debian
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<P-G>
Maybe I'll dual boot in case I want to use my phone as a P.C. Android is annoying but it is nice and easy to work with as a phone interface. The apps are a real selling point.
<DocScrutinizer05>
you can install all debian packages built for ARM on maemo. Those which need stuff like X11 plus desktop manager will need a few adjustments to integrate into the hildon desktop
<P-G>
Nobody makes linux terminal programs that turn your P.C. into a flashlight. :(
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, multiboot is pretty simple and standard on N900
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't really know of other phones that offer this capability
<P-G>
I'm waiting as long as I can for the Neo900 than buying an unlocked Motorolla if I get too angry at my current phone.
<DocScrutinizer05>
uboot for android still leaves the root question unanswered: what OS to boot *instead of* android
<FIQ>
<DocScrutinizer05> you can install all debian packages built for ARM on maemo. Those which need stuff like X11 plus desktop manager will need a few adjustments to integrate into the hildon desktop
<FIQ>
isn't that a really good way to kill your rootfs space
<DocScrutinizer05>
FIQ: please don't repeat my posts
<Oksana>
Yes, yes, it is... a good way to kill rootfs space and home space. MyDocs is almost-invincible...
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I don't understand your question
<kerio>
<DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: please don't repeat my posts
<DocScrutinizer05>
afk
<FIQ>
debian packages would install themselves to the rootfs, wouldn't they
<FIQ>
thus, killing free space on it
<kerio>
eeh
<P-G>
Couldn't you just install it somewhere else?
<kerio>
you can probably optify after installing
<kerio>
P-G: not from a .deb
<P-G>
Oh, ok.
<P-G>
Wait, are you sure?
<DocScrutinizer05>
for that there's optification
<FIQ>
kerio, hmm, sounds awkward, but maybe possible
<P-G>
I thought there was a parameter to install to a different directory.
<P-G>
Maybe I'm remembering something else.
<kerio>
maybe "easy debian"
<kerio>
which is a full debian install in a chroot jail
<DocScrutinizer05>
you're maybe confusing it with buildtime parameter?
<DocScrutinizer05>
or diverting?
<P-G>
Maybe buildtime.
<P-G>
It's been too long since I've used linux. ;(
<P-G>
No, I like to keep things simple. Still not entirely sure where things should go depending on the distribution but I generally use a single partition.
<P-G>
I know there are advantages to distributing but I don't know enough about the software to do that comfortably.
<dal2>
Studying these N900 .PDFs...
<dal2>
Basically I need Twitter, serve as hotspot, encrypt the internal SD (no external SD), and an app to record all calls
<DocScrutinizer05>
P-G: when you like to "keep it simple" then you should follow the recommended best practice
<DocScrutinizer05>
P-G: fact on N900 is: rootfs has only a ~240MB, but /opt and /home has some 2GB
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<DocScrutinizer05>
that's why FIQ asked, and optification is the official answer
<P-G>
Oh, wow. That's interesting.
<DocScrutinizer05>
and /home/user/MyDocs even has 28GB
<kerio>
and it won't ship any user-oriented software
<DocScrutinizer05>
... and prolly will come with 64GB
<P-G>
:p
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05: wait, /usr will be mountable at early boot time right?
<kerio>
we can install systemd! :D
* kerio
flees
<DocScrutinizer05>
kerio: go collect some more bitcoins
<DocScrutinizer05>
;-)
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<FIQ>
systemd hm
<DocScrutinizer05>
devuan HMMM!
<DocScrutinizer05>
on unrelated sidenote: "webshop" comes with dwarf steps of progress
<DocScrutinizer05>
as soon as we got that, we#ll send out a bulk mail to all customers and publish an announcement, about "Buy your RAM, other risk parts. And - when you want one - buy your N900 case, display etc now"
<DocScrutinizer05>
obviously this will be start of dinal phase of preorder window, since a few days/weeks after that campaign started, we need to _order_ the stuff and then some time after that (after, since we'll try to reasonably over-provide on number of components ordered) no more late joins will be possible for the first batch
<DocScrutinizer05>
s/dinal/final/
<P-G>
So the design has been finalised?
<P-G>
Or is that just the plan?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
P-G: the design is somewhat finalized, yes
<P-G>
Between BTFM and Backerbus there is BT Balun with ??? next to it. That is missing from Neo900 but there is a blank space with Hackerbus on the other side.
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe
<DocScrutinizer05>
so what's the question?
<P-G>
Well, I don't know what the BT Balun is but what does the Hackerbus connect to?
<DocScrutinizer05>
HackerBus is our naming for the extension connector inside battery compartment. It's intended for connecting extensions, as the name "extension connector" suggests. Since it's up to you what extensions you want to connect there, we call it HackerBus
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I don't see how BT Balun is related to it
<P-G>
I'll read the PDF and figure it out. I don't need to bother you with everything. :p
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: HB popup in BD needs update to link to whitepaper
<DocScrutinizer05>
P-G: the BlockDiagram for Neo900 and N900 are not meant to get compared using location of blocks
<P-G>
I understand. They are pretty similar though. Very readable.
<DocScrutinizer05>
when there are different subsystems in Neo900 where in N900 BD there's for example Balun, that doesn't mean anything
<P-G>
What is the Balun though?
<DocScrutinizer05>
it just means that in Neo900 there *probably* is no Balun
<DocScrutinizer05>
~wiki balun
<infobot>
At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balun (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{for|the village in Iran|Balun, Iran}} {{More footnotes|date=October 2008}} (Krone IDC) to 75 Ω coaxial cable balun transformers. Actual length is about 3cm.]] toroid]] {{Antennas|components}} A 'balun' {{IPAc-en|ˈ|b|æ|l|ʌ|n}} is an electrical device that converts between a balanced signal (two signals working against each other where ground is irrelevant) and an unbalanced signal ...
<P-G>
Village in Iran.
<P-G>
Oh, so like a balancer?
<DocScrutinizer05>
it is
<DocScrutinizer05>
BALanced->UNbalanced
<P-G>
That makes sense now. :p
<P-G>
Still not sure why it's between the WLAN and BTFM but I guess that's why the question marks.
<P-G>
I feel like I'm reading an old treasure map.
<DocScrutinizer05>
no, the ??? are since we have no component specs or part number
<DocScrutinizer05>
and it's between BT and WLAN since it's needed by the WLAN design in N900
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I prolly had left it out of BD since it's of minor complexity and doesn't contribute to the principles of how the device works
<P-G>
Ok, well, I'll take a look at this again once I've read Electronics For Dummies. I hope to learn a lot. :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
tbh a block diagram is as much about electronics like a map is about driving a car
<DocScrutinizer05>
all you need to know from electronics domain are the technical terms
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<DocScrutinizer05>
like CPU, or RAM or modem or....
<P-G>
Well, I know what those are more or less because I work with computers but I really don't understand much about electronics. Even this block diagram map is complicated for me. The shapes, the references back to CPU. I understand a circuit needs to be made but I can hardly imagine what the circuit board would look like. It will be very exciting to see.
<arossdotme>
ot: would did you think of the rhombus-tech project? lukes asking for testimoials
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't see how rhombus-tech is going to tackle the targets they decided to have as their colors/flag
<DocScrutinizer05>
building the bazillionth mini MCU card doesn't look like doing anything about sustainability/environment/resources/recycling
<DocScrutinizer05>
even Neo900 is much more about all that than what I seen mentioned by that site as being their plans for devices to build
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<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe they try to do "coltan free" or whatever. Well, a lot of compaies do now, but it's pretty hard and generally not really feasible
<arossdotme>
it's not the mcu card on it's own but the bix modle around it, how things are done and
<arossdotme>
biz
<arossdotme>
model
<arossdotme>
yea
<DocScrutinizer05>
the only other two aspects that come to mind regarding "green" are: "no slaves in production" - well, Neo900 UG produces in Bavaria Germany. And "proper recycling at end of product life cycle" - we're more than happy to take back devices you'd otherwise dispose to the landfill
<arossdotme>
yes but there also the creation of devices and the future devices that come into question
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry?
<arossdotme>
so...
<arossdotme>
bare with me
<DocScrutinizer05>
their biz model seems to be largely about a certain mindset
<DocScrutinizer05>
"we're aware and try hard to do as good as possible" - well, as mentioned above a lot of companies do now
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's just most honest companies don't think that's a good major selling point. Even less a "business model"
<arossdotme>
while no slaves in production is great and so so recyicaling it, if sacaled upto millions of devices where the main change between them is a better soc then theres a lot of unnecessary re-producing re-cycling of hole devices which all had a lot in common
<arossdotme>
and a lot of energy spent in doing that
<DocScrutinizer05>
so what?
<arossdotme>
...ant it more effiant
<DocScrutinizer05>
"we promise we won't do innovation more frequently than once a year"?
<arossdotme>
no
<P-G>
That's stupid.
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry, I miss the point of that page/company. And I didn't feel like trying to find out if there actually _is_ any point, since I cannot figure what it might be anyway
<arossdotme>
i'd say with rhombus-tech you get way more rapic inovation
<arossdotme>
re bix model, um yes. i was thinking of the fact thats is a whats it call community interest company, where all profits are re-invested into new products and not share-holder pockets maximisation
<arossdotme>
mmh
<DocScrutinizer05>
uh, that's not a new biz model at all. Rather seems that's how _any_ arbitrary company has to start when they want to survive foirst 2 years
<DocScrutinizer05>
first*
<arossdotme>
mhh
<P-G>
I like the idea of standardising hardware for compatability. It could reduce waste by allowing old parts to be reused but that would require a redistribution network or resellers. It is also possible that making upgrading cheaper and more convenient could decrease operational use of hardware so it will probably come down to their marketing image. The hardware they're developing seems totally
<P-G>
unrelated to their mission and only really to attract donors, which is fine but kind of makes them look cheap and unfocused. The website itself is very simple, which is also fine but it doesn't help their marketing and they would need some big attention to take off since their product is ultimately just a standard.
<P-G>
Sorry for the boarderline flood...
<arossdotme>
i don't mind, i found it intresteing reading also
<arossdotme>
but well the motivation that started wtih lukes quest for a libre software laptop
<DocScrutinizer05>
P-G: I couldn't have put it much better
<arossdotme>
and his frustrations
<arossdotme>
anyone can sign up to the wiki and start edtting ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway I thik that's largely off topic in here
<arossdotme>
urrg markecting is not easy... spents much brain time thinging about it
<arossdotme>
yea sorry for th ot
<arossdotme>
the OT
<arossdotme>
thanks for you input :D
<P-G>
Sorry to be so critical. :p
<arossdotme>
P-G: want to hop on to #arm-netbook? got one or two questions