<micahjohnston>
jesusabdullah: i have a bit of family in alaska
<jesusabdullah>
micahjohnston: oh yeah? Which part?
<jesusabdullah>
micahjohnston: it's a huuge state
<jesusabdullah>
micahjohnston: My guess is: The Valley
<micahjohnston>
i have no idea, sorry :p
<micahjohnston>
it's one of my dad's literally 13 siblings
<joelteon>
ok that was easy
<joelteon>
and by that i mean it was hard
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: I'd like to say I know what you mean, but I actually have no clue at all
<jesusabdullah>
hahaha
<alexgordon>
my experience of religious people is limited to the bitching people do on /r/atheism
<alexgordon>
london and utah could not be more disparate
<jesusabdullah>
hahaha
<micahjohnston>
i went through an r/atheism phase
<micahjohnston>
i like to think i've transcended that
<micahjohnston>
joelteon: what was hard?
<micahjohnston>
fixing monitor thing?
<joelteon>
making my laptop realize it was not connected to anything
<alexgordon>
in many ways /r/atheism is right, it's just that their method of dealing with religion (focus on it as much as possible) is rather counterproductive
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: "faces of atheism" isn't right, it's just laughable
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: what's faces of atheism?
<micahjohnston>
everybody uploaded pictures of their face
<micahjohnston>
and put some retarded quote on it
<alexgordon>
lol
<purr>
lol
<micahjohnston>
yeah, I guess they're "right" a lot
<micahjohnston>
but they're wrong about being confrontational
<micahjohnston>
which is I guess what you said
<alexgordon>
lol
<alexgordon>
yes
<micahjohnston>
but I think, for instance, Hitch is very wrong about saying "religion poisons everything"
<micahjohnston>
because religion can do both good and bad things
<micahjohnston>
so it's not always bad
<alexgordon>
I dunno
<alexgordon>
is it?
<alexgordon>
I'm willing to accept it's not at fault 100% of the time
<alexgordon>
but doing good things is harder
<micahjohnston>
well for instance I think
<micahjohnston>
taking away religion but not replacing it with education could have a bad effect on people's behavior
<micahjohnston>
I'M GONNA TAKE SOCIOLINGUISTICS FOR MY DIVERSITY REQUIREMENT
<jesusabdullah>
I think there's some truth to the ideas that religions as memes are quite viral, and that there are some bad ideas that come with many religions
<alexgordon>
I think what hitch said anyway, is that any good religious people do can and is done more efficiently by secularists
<jesusabdullah>
but that it doesn't matter if someone is a good person and make good actions
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: well there was a good question somebody said
<micahjohnston>
if you were approached in an alley at night by a group of teens
<jesusabdullah>
so I'm not really out to end religion, or convince all my friends they should be militant atheists or anything
<micahjohnston>
would you feel more safe had they just come from a bible study class
<jesusabdullah>
but I would very much like my friends to tolerate my OWN lack of belief
<micahjohnston>
jesusabdullah: right, I like that
<jesusabdullah>
and my behaviors which The Pope, or Brigham Young or what have you, might have disapproved of
<jesusabdullah>
but which from a libertarian standpoint are either neutral or only harmful to myself
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: as someone who was not long ago such a teen, I'd say no. I wouldn't feel *more* safe
<jesusabdullah>
"oh shit a roving gang of mormon teens! Quick, hide before they prostelytize to you!"
<alexgordon>
because the vast majority of teens in dark alleys are harmless
<jesusabdullah>
"Hi there I'm Elder Young" "oh, uhh, hi"
<alexgordon>
the only reason that "works" is that you're giving more information from them
<alexgordon>
for example
<jesusabdullah>
thing is, those kids are usually very nice and professional, so you feel kinda douchey about it
<alexgordon>
"If you were approached in an alley at night by a group of teens, would you feel more or less safe knowing they'd come from math class?"
<alexgordon>
now, can we surmise from this that math improves morals?
<jesusabdullah>
whereas that fire and brimstone southern baptist preacher with all the "mormons are cultists" and "you're all going to Hell" signs?
<jesusabdullah>
Don't feel too bad ditching that guy at all
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: and yeah sure, a philosophy or math class would be just as comforting as a bible study class
<micahjohnston>
but that's beside the point
<micahjohnston>
that just means that religion doesn't have a *negative* effect in that case
<alexgordon>
point is, it's unfair to compare one situation with more information vs one situation without any information
<jesusabdullah>
what if it was a bible class taught by the Westboro Baptists?
<jesusabdullah>
I'd feel less safe
<jesusabdullah>
XD
<micahjohnston>
well yeah
<micahjohnston>
lol
<purr>
lol
<jesusabdullah>
I went to Mormon church a few times
<jesusabdullah>
with a mormon friend
<micahjohnston>
it's the most boring church you can go to probably
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: do you know they have bible study classes in prison? prisoners are often quite religious
<jesusabdullah>
as an aside, the kid became a waste of skin.
<jesusabdullah>
but that's an aside!
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: they also have math classes
<alexgordon>
indeed
<alexgordon>
just goes to prove my point :P
<jesusabdullah>
but the church was pretty friggin' normal I thought
<jesusabdullah>
actually fairly pleasant, they're more interested in feeling God's glory than they are about guilting you
<alexgordon>
the only reason you would feel less safe, is because you don't *know* where they've come from
<jesusabdullah>
sunday school was interesting, lots of stuff about like
<jesusabdullah>
Zion or something
* micahjohnston
finishes his bowl of cherry ice cream
<micahjohnston>
jesusabdullah: hm yeah like missouri?
<alexgordon>
so you are at an information deficit
<jesusabdullah>
only weird part was during prayer I was like, "who the fuck is Joseph Smith??"
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: well if you know they've come from like
<alexgordon>
if you add information, then you can narrow down whether you feel more, or less safe
<micahjohnston>
doing gang related activities
<micahjohnston>
lolol
<alexgordon>
right
<micahjohnston>
but even like
<micahjohnston>
if they just came from a club or some shit
<micahjohnston>
you'd feel less safe than a bible class
<alexgordon>
well yes they're more likely to come from a club indeed
<alexgordon>
and I would feel less safe in that case
<alexgordon>
but that's beside the point :P
<alexgordon>
the point is, if you get more information, you can make more accurate predictions
<jesusabdullah>
also my mormon friends' family was secretly polygamist so there were some interesting dynamics going on there
<micahjohnston>
jesusabdullah: oh haha wow
<micahjohnston>
was this like
<jesusabdullah>
yeah well like, you know how having two wives can lead to "favorite wife" issues
<micahjohnston>
official COJCOLDS
<micahjohnston>
or
<micahjohnston>
jesusabdullah: yeah sounds awful
<jesusabdullah>
His dad was known around the town as "
<jesusabdullah>
"Ron the Stallion"
<alexgordon>
Ron Jeremy?
<micahjohnston>
oh god
<jesusabdullah>
lol inorite?
<purr>
lol
<joelteon>
ron jeremy is a mormon?
<jesusabdullah>
nono, Ron ANDERSON
<jesusabdullah>
the ANDERSONS
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: anyway, I'm still not convinced hitchens was very wrong, or even slightly wrong
<jesusabdullah>
(and Betsy the "nanny")
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: religion made things better in that specific case
<micahjohnston>
in that in can have a positive effect on behavior
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: no, information made things better
<micahjohnston>
sure, so can education
<micahjohnston>
but religion can motivate people to do good things
<micahjohnston>
as well as bad
<jesusabdullah>
here's the thing, beliefs in general may or may not inform actions
<micahjohnston>
so it's just another neutral thing in the stew of humanity
<jesusabdullah>
so religion comes with a big box of beliefs
<jesusabdullah>
and so does education
<jesusabdullah>
the thing is, which of these beliefs and tenets end up informing actions?
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: the test is not whether religion is better than a complete lack of education, it's whether religion is better than any other type of education (and other type of education aren't as destructive as religion)
<jesusabdullah>
Like, if you learn some science and take it to be true, you almost definitely take it into account when deciding to do something day-to-day
<alexgordon>
if you go to church, then you're spending some time educating yourself in whatever brand of bullshit they teach there
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: well obviously there are better things than religion
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: but religion isn't solely negative, is the point
<joelteon>
yeah, it's not SO harmful that it's useless
<jesusabdullah>
I'm trying to think of a good example here in terms of education informing action but I'm derping here
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: but this misses the point that if we didn't have religion, we could replace it with education instead
<jesusabdullah>
Maybe this: You believe that you can experimentally figure something out, and that if you observe an effect from a cause consistently than your observation is probably accurate
<jesusabdullah>
and day-to-day, you run into something you don't understand, you can use that process to figure out how it works
<jesusabdullah>
now, in bible study and such
<jesusabdullah>
you may learn that God doesn't like gays, and that informs your actions when you vote, or find out your friend is gay, or something like that
<jesusabdullah>
and that's not so good
<jesusabdullah>
OR, you may learn it, and on some level hold the belief, but have it compartmentalized such that you still have gay friends, etc.
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: yes, arguing that we need religion because it has good effects is the broken window fallacy
<jesusabdullah>
but like, you can also learn that God wants you to treat people with respect, and the informed action is reasonably good, even if you can learn that same lesson through other means
<jesusabdullah>
Too out of focus to take all that babble to a logical conclusion, hopefully you guys can connect the dots :)
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: I think the reason this is difficult is because religion is so varied. It's impossible to have a conversation about religion in general, though you can easily take specific religions to pieces
<jesusabdullah>
Here's an interesting one
<jesusabdullah>
Hinduism and castes
<alexgordon>
I'd say that there is not a single religion on earth, that is not bad
<jesusabdullah>
in India, the caste system is more or less dissolved
<alexgordon>
but I would have to go through each one
<jesusabdullah>
the president of India is from the "untouchables" caste
<alexgordon>
I can't argue that based on "religion" in general
<jesusabdullah>
but my understanding is that the caste system is somewhat central to Hinduism
<jesusabdullah>
Basically, you can be as religious as you want as long as we can play some video games, you're okay with me drinking beers and look the other way when I smoke a doob on the back porch
<jesusabdullah>
Deal? :D
<micahjohnston>
jesusabdullah: r u a tree
<micahjohnston>
:o
<alexgordon>
yes, or in other words: I don't care if you believe in string theory as long as you don't force it on me too
<alexgordon>
individual beliefs are harmless, the trouble is that a number of people who hold the same belief gain power they can abuse to make like harder for other people
<jesusabdullah>
micahjohnston: if you mean, "are you concerned that you'll have trouble buying and smoking cannabis without getting arrested or ostracised by your neighbors?", then yes
<jesusabdullah>
micahjohnston: you live in SFBay, that happens to you
<jesusabdullah>
k bbl
<alexgordon>
e.g., there's quite a few people in France (and the UK) who don't want to see gay marriage (two very irreligious countries). The belief is not completely based on religion - yet it is destructive nonetheless
<jesusabdullah>
indeed
<jesusabdullah>
I have to wonder if these people have ever had gay friends
<jesusabdullah>
cause, like
<micahjohnston>
jesusabdullah: was just meaning do you smoke :p
<jesusabdullah>
micahjohnston: yes
<alexgordon>
the problem is religion is mainly that it gets its beliefs from 1000+ years ago
<alexgordon>
so it's very entrenched, and the beliefs are very out of date
<jesusabdullah>
alexgordon: by that standard the mormons are relatively progressive no?
<alexgordon>
jesusabdullah: haha they're still christians though :P
<alexgordon>
tbh moral standards didn't really improve until after the second world war
<alexgordon>
the WWII is in some ways one of the best things to happen to humanity
<alexgordon>
which seems very wrong to say
<alexgordon>
in a few decades, everybody who died in it would be dead anyway. But we will still be feeling the benefits its had to human compassion and morality. Now there's a question to ponder: was WWII mainly good or mainly bad?
<micahjohnston>
hi
<purr>
micahjohnston: hi!
<joelteon>
so
<joelteon>
TIL you can catch exceptions thrown by the error function in haskell
<joelteon>
so i'm pretty stupid
<micahjohnston>
well that's the gross part of haskell
<micahjohnston>
:p
<joelteon>
yeah well exceptions are pretty hard
<micahjohnston>
JUST USE MAYBE AND EITHER EVERYWHERE
<micahjohnston>
AM I RIGHT
<joelteon>
No, use monads, moron
<micahjohnston>
those are both monads
<micahjohnston>
:p
<alexgordon>
exceptions suck
<alexgordon>
monads suck
<alexgordon>
exceptions + monads = windows 8 level of suck
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon speaks the truth
<alexgordon>
omg
<alexgordon>
I thought you like exceptions?
<micahjohnston>
no?
<micahjohnston>
i like time travel
<micahjohnston>
it's my preferred error handling system
<alexgordon>
lol
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
is that the same time travel as elliott's
<alexgordon>
?
<micahjohnston>
yeah
<micahjohnston>
3 CREDITS TO GO
<micahjohnston>
UNTIL I'M REGISTERED AND CAN WAIT TO CHANGE ALL THESE CLASSES
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: what's a credit?
<alexgordon>
mmmm, I think I must have designed about 4 different module systems for furrow today. Hate all of them :P
<alexgordon>
such a simple thing, has such huge repercussions
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: it's like
<micahjohnston>
you have to have these many credits in these categories
<micahjohnston>
to get this degree
<alexgordon>
right
<micahjohnston>
and a class will be worth 3 credits or 4 credits or something
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: I don't get "3 credits to go until I'm registered"
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: I'm currently registering for classes
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: and I need to be enrolled in 15+ credits this semester for a scholarship, like I explained
<micahjohnston>
so I have signed up for 13 credits
<micahjohnston>
and I need to sign up for a class worth 3 more
<devyn>
whenever I need Linux I just log into my server
<joelteon>
yeah same
<devyn>
or I have a VM on Firestar but it's currently in a state of disrepair :p
<joelteon>
i have a vagrant image for developing my bot
<joelteon>
otherwise
<joelteon>
ok brb gym
<Nuck>
I loved OS X
<Nuck>
I still do
<Nuck>
But I just love Linux more
<Nuck>
It's sorta like why I use vim - everything is *exactly* how I want it
<Nuck>
Down to the littlest details
<cythraul>
heh. i can tell whenever D's been using my computer because the webcam has mysteriously become unplugged and shoved almost completely off the monitor
<Nuck>
u camwhore
<cythraul>
Nuck: if only. i could be rolling in money instead of idk sitting on my wallet or whatever
<devyn>
don't lie you spoon that wallet
<cythraul>
devyn: i DID get drunk and tongue it a bit once ;)
<devyn>
ahaha
<devyn>
I can totally see you doing that
<cythraul>
ikr
<cythraul>
actually last time i got drunk i got bored while in a g+ hangout and started deep throating the beer bottle.
<cythraul>
conversation ceased. i died laughing
<devyn>
haha
<cythraul>
devyn: i got escorted out of the local comic book shop on Free Comic Book Day by mall security. i was dressed as Jack Sparrow. apparently someone thought i'd stolen something.
<cythraul>
what is my life, etc.
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<cythraul>
gqbrielle's life: a series of anecdotes strung together improbably.
<devyn>
better an adventurous life than a boring one behind a desk
<devyn>
mine's currently kind of that :/
* cythraul
shrugs
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<cythraul>
gotta spend some time behind the wheel of the pirate ship & not just dashing around keelhauling people & getting booty
<devyn>
indeed
<devyn>
but getting booty I am
<cythraul>
badumtssh
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<joelteon>
ok i am back
<joelteon>
that was a quickie
<devyn>
must have been hot
<cythraul>
...lol
<purr>
lol
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<joelteon>
yeah it was biceps day
<devyn>
huh, what did you do with them
<devyn>
did it work? ;)
<joelteon>
so far
<joelteon>
they're pretty sore
<joelteon>
i wonder if anybody sees me and thinks "curlbro"
<devyn>
god damn it joelteon I'm throwing innuendo at it and it's going so whoosh
<cythraul>
they might not. they might just carry it around looking badass
<joelteon>
i want to customize my zsh more
<joelteon>
but...
<joelteon>
what else is there to do
<cythraul>
add little bells
<cythraul>
there's always room for little bells
<joelteon>
there are bells if i tab complete
<cythraul>
i see
<joelteon>
so there's nothing else to do
<joelteon>
i have vi mode with indicators
<joelteon>
i have a green dot if everything went well
<joelteon>
i have git
<joelteon>
i have rbenv
<joelteon>
the indicators are greek
<cythraul>
purr occasionally goes beep if there's stuff
<devyn>
huh
<devyn>
shiina ringo, eh?
<devyn>
sounds pretty good
<devyn>
lol her name is literally Apple Beech
<purr>
lol
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<devyn>
yup
<devyn>
shiina ringo
<devyn>
good stuff
<cythraul>
devyn [~devyn@oftn/board/devyn] has quit IRC: Quit: Lost terminal
<cythraul>
just makes me think of devyn like hulking out and throwing the computer out the window
<joelteon>
makes me think of devyn misplacing his computer
<devyn>
more like restarting tmux because I had to add my user to a group
<devyn>
but hey
<devyn>
that works
<joelteon>
bah
<cythraul>
i know what it means
<joelteon>
use ZNC
<cythraul>
but the image it creates is something else x3
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<joelteon>
do you guys play haxball
<devyn>
I have come to love db migrations a lot
<joelteon>
yesod is great at them
<devyn>
also this is starting to look kinda pretty http://cl.ly/PwkV
<devyn>
need a better font though
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<joelteon>
what is it
<cythraul>
huh. i like it devyn
<cythraul>
i was expecting some stripped-down clinical nightmare horror like most of e's stuff is
<devyn>
receiver for tasks from distributed computing/compute sharing platform
<joelteon>
oh yeah that thing
<devyn>
basically it downloads results and tracks their status
<devyn>
maru at the moment is basically split into four fairly minimal parts:
<devyn>
- producer. creates jobs
<devyn>
- network. distributes jobs
<devyn>
- worker. does work on jobs
<devyn>
- subscriber. receives results
<devyn>
this is a subscriber interface.
<devyn>
as you might imagine, you can also combine those roles as much as you'd like. it probably makes sense frequently to have an application that is both a producer and a subscriber
<devyn>
or a network with some built in producer functionality
<devyn>
cythraul: also thanks
<cythraul>
:>
<devyn>
haha the timestamps need some formatting
<devyn>
I was thinking of doing the 'x Y ago' style
<devyn>
also at some point I need to put in a speed, i.e. “82 jobs/hour” or something
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<micahjohnston>
gmorning
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: !
<micahjohnston>
have I caught you in the afternoon instead of late at night?
<alexgordon>
hi
<purr>
alexgordon: hi!
<alexgordon>
yes
<alexgordon>
sup micahjohnston
<micahjohnston>
so i just got texted that my macbook will come on wednesday
<micahjohnston>
which is worse than tuesday but better than thursday or friday
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: LOL
<purr>
LOL
<micahjohnston>
I ONLY LOVE YOU
<micahjohnston>
I ONLY LOVE YOU
<micahjohnston>
I ONLY LOVE YOU ONLY LOVE YOU ONLY LOVE YOU WHEN I'M DRUNK
<ec>
hi
<purr>
ec: hi!
<alexgordon>
ec!
<alexgordon>
EC!
<ec>
Holy *shit* the clouds
<ec>
so many clouds
<alexgordon>
ec: nah, it's mainly micahjohnston saying "I LOVE YOU"
<ec>
lol sounds like much the usual, then
<purr>
lol
<ec>
who the fuck is cythraul
<ec>
can't decide if I should -bankrupt
<ec>
yeeeeeah. No way I'm reading all this shit
<ec>
if there was anything important, tweet it at me.
<ec>
ec out, bitches. I've got a hair appointment, and then a date with four girls. #killmenow
<alexgordon>
ec: four girls?
<joelteon>
boy google groups sure has gone downhill
<joelteon>
ok that was weird
<joelteon>
somehow I booted without hardware virtualization enabled for my cpu
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<joelteon>
♪ white walls
<purr>
joelteon is listening to “White Walls Ft. Schoolboy Q & Hollis”, by Macklemore & Ryan Lewis
<alexgordon>
I've gone through half a dozen different module systems for furrow in total, but I think this one is pretty much perfect
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston will proceed to find flaws in it, now I've said that
<whitequark>
oh there are flaws
<whitequark>
alexgordon: "import sha384()"
<whitequark>
where is a list of modules in which it will find functions?
<alexgordon>
YES, BITCH.
<whitequark>
wat
<alexgordon>
I anticipated your objection to that bit
<alexgordon>
whitequark: it will search all modules in the search path
<whitequark>
in which order?
<alexgordon>
any order, doesn't matter
<whitequark>
what if several ones have such function?
<alexgordon>
then it generates an error telling you to be more specific
<whitequark>
this pretty fucking much destroys the purpose of module systems
<whitequark>
that is to keep name resolution local.
<whitequark>
you add a module, and boom, a completely unrelated module explodes
<whitequark>
your system is crap.
<alexgordon>
lol whitequark
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
no because you're only importing one function
<whitequark>
how so?
<alexgordon>
also one module can have a different search path to another module
<whitequark>
module A contains sha512; module B does "import sha512()" and it's OK
<whitequark>
you add module C to the project which also contains sha512
<whitequark>
suddenly module B, which wasn't written by you, explodes
<alexgordon>
yes but it doesn't work like that...
<alexgordon>
it's not just "throw everything in together"
<alexgordon>
you know node.js?
<alexgordon>
you have a node_modules folder
<whitequark>
no
<alexgordon>
lol
<alexgordon>
well you have a node_modules folder
<alexgordon>
with the dependencies
<alexgordon>
a dependency wouldn't have access to the module that contains it
<whitequark>
that solves ambiguity, right
<whitequark>
but creates different problems
<whitequark>
you can have two versions of Date coexisting in a single app
<alexgordon>
yep
<whitequark>
which is not a problem for functions (well, it is, but it's not as bad)
<whitequark>
but it is a problem, because they may very well have incompatible data structures
<whitequark>
and it's not like node can enforce or verify that you only put Date 0.5 to Date 0.5's functions
<alexgordon>
no, but furrow's type system can
<whitequark>
ok
<whitequark>
then it should work
<alexgordon>
yep
<alexgordon>
if a module has a dependency on Date 0.5, and there's also a Date 0.4 somewhere else, then the two are different types. In general this isn't a problem since dependencies *tend* to be internal
<micahjohnston>
i hate module systems
<micahjohnston>
all of them
<alexgordon>
lol micahjohnston
<purr>
lol
<micahjohnston>
i have no idea how to fix them
<whitequark>
lol
<micahjohnston>
but like
<alexgordon>
what about mine!
<micahjohnston>
the idea of files
<micahjohnston>
and improt
<alexgordon>
mine is better
<micahjohnston>
import
<micahjohnston>
and modeuls
<micahjohnston>
and antyhing like that
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: oh, furrow's module system isn't based on files
<alexgordon>
it's based on directories
<micahjohnston>
i want to spend as little thinking as possible
<whitequark>
I enforce enough interface to be able to meaningfully do encapsulation
<whitequark>
ie, public/private methods
<whitequark>
and meaningfully do separate compilation
<whitequark>
ie, type signatures
<whitequark>
everything else the compiler doesn't need, and the human will have to act upon
<micahjohnston>
wisdom's a gift, but you'd trade it for youth
<micahjohnston>
age is an honor; it's still not the truth
<alexgordon>
I would add that if you only use "import fs" or "from fs import copy" you won't have any problems with stuff generating ambiguity errors in the future due to interface change
<alexgordon>
and imports don't change the public interface, so nobody else knows or cares which style of import you use
<micahjohnston>
modules end up having the most sql-ey syntax
<micahjohnston>
like
<micahjohnston>
most languages go for english syntax with fill in the blank
<alexgordon>
I suppose my motivation is mainly to get OO-style encapsulation in an exclusively functional language. So instead of classes, you have modules. Instead of instance methods you have functions in the module, and instead of instance variables you have data structures of the same name
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: ha, I tried some symbolic syntaxes but I didn't like the look of them
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: mhm
<micahjohnston>
actually that's spot on about the OO encapsulation
<alexgordon>
too unintuitive
<micahjohnston>
Haskell does that a lot
<micahjohnston>
although this seems probably better
<alexgordon>
yeah haskell has problems because it has no overloading (except in typeclasses)
<alexgordon>
which kinda ruins the whole encapsulation thing
<alexgordon>
most important thing about OO-langs is that instance methods are overloaded based on the self/this type
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: holy shit, immature people play FPSs?
<alexgordon>
completely irrelevant but: I'm annoyed that art has become just another outlet of political expression. Once upon a time, the goal of art was making pretty pictures
<alexgordon>
now every artist wants to have some political "message" in their artwork
<whitequark>
hahahahaha
<whitequark>
if you think old art was never about politics
<whitequark>
it's just because the politics didn't survive