alexzordon has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
<purr>
<ec> MENSTRUAL MINER
<ec>
hiiii
eligrey has quit [Quit: Leaving]
sharkbot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sharkbot has joined #elliottcable
<joelteon>
hi
<purr>
joelteon: hi!
_whitelogger has joined #elliottcable
sanitypassing has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
devyn has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
devyn has joined #elliottcable
Nuck has quit [Quit: Nuck Off]
<purr>
<devyn> AIIIIIIIAHHHH
PLejeck has joined #elliottcable
PLejeck has joined #elliottcable
PLejeck has quit [Changing host]
PLejeck is now known as Nuck
<devyn>
hm
<devyn>
I'm not sure if I'm going crazy
<devyn>
or my music is playing slightly faster
<devyn>
than it should be
<devyn>
yep I'm going crazy
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<purr>
<elliottcable> I think John Mulaney is turning me gay.
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
yorick has joined #elliottcable
PragCypher has joined #elliottcable
_whitelogger has joined #elliottcable
alexgordon has joined #elliottcable
<purr>
<purr> idklolosx
<whitequark>
purr: wat.
<purr>
whitequark: can't find the referenced what.
<whitequark>
purr: wat.
<purr>
whitequark: can't find the referenced what.
<whitequark>
purr: wat.
<purr>
whitequark: can't find the referenced what.
<whitequark>
purr: wat.
<purr>
whitequark: can't find the referenced what.
<whitequark>
purr: wat.
<purr>
whitequark: can't find the referenced what.
<whitequark>
purr: wat.
<purr>
whitequark: can't find the referenced what.
<whitequark>
purr: wat.
<purr>
whitequark: can't find the referenced what.
<whitequark>
purr: are you fucking dumb
<alexgordon>
lol
<purr>
lol
<purr>
<gqbrielle> sephr
<purr>
<Nuck> I'm gonna go write a state machine, because it makes more sense than Elliott does.
<purr>
<locks> figures, talk about hookers and here comes alexgordon
<alexgordon>
you called?
eligrey has joined #elliottcable
Kapone has joined #elliottcable
chris-tina has joined #elliottcable
<alexgordon>
ec: here?
chris-tina has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
fleaslice has joined #elliottcable
<joelteon>
i'm back and better than ever
<fleaslice>
great to hear brosli
sanitypassing has joined #elliottcable
<purr>
<alexgordon> why, we lispers spend half as much time writing code as normal programmers, leaving the other half of our time for writing smug essays!
<alexgordon>
:D
fleaslice has left #elliottcable ["Konversation terminated!"]
<joelteon>
10.8 is so much better than 10.9 rigth now
sanitypassing has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
devyn has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
devyn has joined #elliottcable
<alexgordon>
joelteon: you think so?
<alexgordon>
10.9 is so much better than 10.8
<whitequark>
hey don't fight
<whitequark>
OS X is crap regardless of version
<joelteon>
alexgordon: yeah, but my tiling WM won't work on 10.9
<joelteon>
whitequark: then this is not the discussion for you
<alexgordon>
lol
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
sounds like you should be using linux joelteon
<joelteon>
yeah, maybe I should
<whitequark>
joelteon: i fuck things
<joelteon>
I dunno, last time I used arch it was pretty tough to get the battery life up to a reasonable length
<joelteon>
that and it didn't automatically lock when I closed the lid
<joelteon>
but it was pretty great other than that
<joelteon>
and I really like the apple hardware
<joelteon>
if I wanted to get some random notebook to install arch on it just wouldn't be the same
<joelteon>
what to do what to do
<whitequark>
joelteon: thinkpads
<joelteon>
oh plus arch has GNU sed
<joelteon>
hmmmm
<joelteon>
I'll have to play around with one
<joelteon>
oh, and the trackpad behavior on OSX is something I can't replicate anywhere else
<joelteon>
and drivers on arch are kinda lousy
<whitequark>
use debian.
<joelteon>
why
<joelteon>
64-bit GHC is broken on debian
<whitequark>
where
<joelteon>
where?
<joelteon>
everywhere
<alexgordon>
joelteon: it's kinda annoying that all linux distros suck
<alexgordon>
compared to OS X
<joelteon>
yeah I'd say that qualifies as very annoying
<alexgordon>
and the more niche you go, the worse it gets
<joelteon>
yeah
<alexgordon>
ubuntu seems to enjoy the most support
<whitequark>
wat
<alexgordon>
I often see instructions especially for ubuntu
<whitequark>
ubuntu is like, flexibility of os x, user-friendliness of windows
<joelteon>
yeah, but it's worse
<whitequark>
fortunately 99.9% of ubuntu packages work on debian testing
<joelteon>
the hting is
<joelteon>
ok, here's one example I just thought of at 11:47
<alexgordon>
which is not to say that ubuntu is more broken than other distros, but if there's a problem people are more likely to share the solution for ubuntu
<whitequark>
besides
<joelteon>
OSX implements scroll momentum at the hardware level
<whitequark>
distros don't suck :p
<joelteon>
well, not at the hardware level
<alexgordon>
joelteon: yeah, it doesn't :P
<joelteon>
I don't think that's the right word
<joelteon>
but
<joelteon>
maybe the driver level?
<whitequark>
desktop environments sometimes do
<joelteon>
i dunno
<whitequark>
joelteon: discover synclient
<joelteon>
ok anyway
<joelteon>
yeah, I tried synaptics
<alexgordon>
on linux there's a certain contempt afforded to users
<alexgordon>
"go fix it yourself, it's free"
<joelteon>
i tweaked the trackpad options about
<joelteon>
600,000 times
<whitequark>
alexgordon: well, because it is
<joelteon>
and it still didn't feel right
<alexgordon>
whitequark: right, but this is not the user's problem
<joelteon>
the granularity of steps for scrolling is too high
<whitequark>
alexgordon: if the user doesn't like something, it's first and foremost their problem
<joelteon>
and once you use a mac trackpad for like, 2 months
<joelteon>
and then switch to any other method that involves scrolling
<joelteon>
it's like switching from, say, an audi to a dump truck
<alexgordon>
whitequark: and lots of users get pissed off with fixing stuff themself, then linux loses
<joelteon>
incredibly jarring
<whitequark>
alexgordon: desktop is by far not the most important market for linux
<whitequark>
it's already won
<alexgordon>
okay
<joelteon>
well, I think our discussion is about desktop linux
<joelteon>
not server linux
<whitequark>
the amount of linux installations is more than windows, osx and all other oses combined
<joelteon>
i'm 100% happy with my server linux
<alexgordon>
point is, on OS X, you can pay someone (Apple) and they make the shit work
<joelteon>
because there's not any interaction with it besids a terminal
<whitequark>
by, probably, several orders
<alexgordon>
on linux… well there's canonical but they're not quite as good
<joelteon>
alexgordon: well, I'm not too dumb to configure stuff myself, the point is that it can't be equivalently configured
<whitequark>
joelteon: server? android, plus all those SOHO routers, etc, etc.
<alexgordon>
joelteon: it's not a question of being dumb though, it's a question of giving a shit
<joelteon>
and anyone who says that linux and OSX usability are equivalent if you "tweak the config"
<joelteon>
has not used OSX for any extended period of time
<alexgordon>
my OS exists to serve me, and it should work, out of the box
<alexgordon>
if it can't do that, then I'll find one that can
<joelteon>
ok
<joelteon>
android too
<joelteon>
I don't personally use an android device
<whitequark>
joelteon: you clearly didn't use android 4
<joelteon>
yeah
<joelteon>
clearly
<whitequark>
because everything before is utter shit
<whitequark>
I agree
<joelteon>
yeah I've never used android
<whitequark>
and android 4 is where iOS gains features from ;)
<joelteon>
yeah
<joelteon>
and iOS fixes them
<joelteon>
that's the general pattern
<whitequark>
doesn't seem so.
<whitequark>
but whatever
<whitequark>
I have work to do
<joelteon>
ok
Alexandra has joined #elliottcable
<Alexandra>
hola
Alexandra has left #elliottcable [#elliottcable]
<ec>
hi, all
<ec>
-clouds
<purr>
ec: is stuck up in the clouds; hilight 'em if you want 'em.
<joelteon>
being in a channel full of self taught programmers has given me some very bad preconceptions about humanity in general
<joelteon>
such as "never assume your users aren't stupid"
<joelteon>
well
<joelteon>
no, actually, "assume your users aren't stupid"
<joelteon>
or "don't assume your users are stupid"
<purr>
<Nuck> Pretty sure CoffeeScript is already preoccupied sodomizing itself.
<prophile>
almost all programmers are self-taught
<prophile>
the formal stuff comes after you already know how to program
<prophile>
for pretty much everyone
<prophile>
(the scientific community being the exception)
<alexgordon>
hah
<alexgordon>
and scientific code is the best
<prophile>
well, it's the whole tools vs robots thing
<alexgordon>
a formal education in programming reduces the variance: it teaches you to think like someone who's had a formal education in programming
<alexgordon>
self-taught people can be very good, or very bad. Formal educations breed meritocracy
<alexgordon>
erm
<alexgordon>
thanks spell check
<prophile>
you think so?
<alexgordon>
mediocrity
<prophile>
which uni did you attend?
<alexgordon>
I have only ever taken one university-level programming coursee
<alexgordon>
it was as bad as I was expecting it to be
<prophile>
and naturally you can generalise from that to all university-level programming courses
<prophile>
I'm going to guess imperial or bristol
<prophile>
not computer science though, clearly
<prophile>
hm
<alexgordon>
prophile: not all, just most
<prophile>
see I tried to search for your CV
<yorick>
prophile: alright, I've been attending university computer science for a year now, and it was far far worse than I thought
<yorick>
happy now? :)
<alexgordon>
prophile: I'm a baseball player
<prophile>
but google treats CV' and 'resumé' as equivalent
<prophile>
then treats 'resumé' and 'resume' as equivalent
<prophile>
and gives me github issues for lion resume support
<yorick>
they were like "this is a bridge. on a bridge, the customer and the user are different entities"
<alexgordon>
prophile: I don't doubt that if you go to oxbridge you'll get a pretty good education. But there's not enough good people to go around
<alexgordon>
the people who design these courses don't have a clue, most of the time
<prophile>
hah
<prophile>
not at bloody oxford you won't
<yorick>
"company X wants to manage airlines, where every airline has planes that have flights with seats and everything" underline the important words
<prophile>
the BCS pulled their certification
<prophile>
the oxford CS course doesn't have any bad programming parts because it doesn't have any programming at all
<prophile>
I believe their programming has been reduced to an optional haskell course in the fourth year
<alexgordon>
ha
<yorick>
also xhtml/1.1 and script.aculo.us are web 2.0 tools for the future
<alexgordon>
prophile: well cambridge then
<prophile>
cambridge and imperial are probably the best on CS
<prophile>
with places like exeter or bristol or soton not too far behind
<alexgordon>
prophile: if you're a good programmer you can make pretty serious money. Why would you design a programming undergrad course? (not even a masters!)
<prophile>
there are plenty of good programmers in academia
<prophile>
alexgordon: which of my research groups do you want surveyed? :D
<alexgordon>
prophile: anyway my original point was that people who teach themselves are taught by experience, whereas people who learn from universities are taught the same as everybody else