<ELLIOTTCABLE>
The iLife suite — made up GarageBand, iMovie and iPhoto — isn’t really a suite anymore. At one time, all of the apps (with iDVD and iWeb) came together on an installer DVD.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
prophile ⑊ interesting point of view. similar to mine in many ways, right now.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I still nominally hate it; but it's the *best option* in many ways.
<prophile>
hah
<alexgordon>
the number one thing I look for in a programming language is: how hard is it to fuck up?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lol.
<purr>
lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
that's a terrible metric.
<alexgordon>
not at all
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
go write Java/
<prophile>
you'd love befunge
<alexgordon>
I spend most of my time debugging
<prophile>
it's almost impossible to make it crash
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
building llvm ಠ_ಠ
<alexgordon>
therefore, a language should not - at a minimum - introduce bugs unnecessarily
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
god damnit clang_complete why won't you just work
<prophile>
clang_complete works pretty damn well for C
<alexgordon>
by being confusing, or inconsistent with itself
<prophile>
don't recommend it for C++
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
that's great and all except I can't get it to work
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I just want to dive into git-core ;_;
<prophile>
oh don't do that, for god's sake
<prophile>
there's LINUS code in there
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
too late
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
need to
<prophile>
having commits from both you and him in the same project is liable to cause singularities
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
pf why
<prophile>
an insufferable force meeting an immovable object
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“elliottcable: an insufferable force”
<alexgordon>
I want to spend as little time programming as possible. That means, batteries included, hard to write buggy code, and fast enough that I don't have to spend time optimizing
<prophile>
I was referring to linus
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I can't decide if the use of ‘insufferable’ was intentional >:
<prophile>
but that too
<prophile>
it was :)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
wait, I'm immovable? nah.
<prophile>
lel fat joke
<prophile>
(that wasn't intentional)
<prophile>
alexgordon: haskell, darling
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm definitely the moving one out of the two. I do the crazy shit and never stop trying to do more-crazy shit. Yes/no? That's my reputation in here, at least.
<alexgordon>
prophile: fails on points 2 and 3
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon ⑊ I don
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
t know, everything I've heard about haskell satisfies *exactly* what you just listed
<prophile>
alexgordon: really? your experience must differ from mine
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Fuck me ai can't type today
<alexgordon>
haskell makes it easy to write slow code
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Somebody needs to write in the vertical on Haskell
<prophile>
haskell makes it easy to write code modular enough that if it's slow you can swap a bit of it out in isolation
<alexgordon>
that may be
<alexgordon>
but
<alexgordon>
nobody cares if it's too slow
<prophile>
no compiler can read minds
<alexgordon>
not my problem
<prophile>
if you want fast code, you're always going to have to write it to be fast
<alexgordon>
it's up to the language to not be unnecessarily slow
<prophile>
the language and compiler will only change that by a constant factor
<alexgordon>
if it IS unnecessarily slow, it'd better be python, otherwise I don't care about it
<prophile>
hah
<prophile>
let me introduce you to paws
<alexgordon>
:D
<alexgordon>
prophile: not at all, if I write code in C++, I never have to fight the compiler to make the code fast
<whitequark>
yes
<whitequark>
you fight it to make it correct instead
<alexgordon>
maybe, but that is a separate issue
<whitequark>
correctness > speed.
<whitequark>
period.
<alexgordon>
nope
<alexgordon>
maybe in masturbatory projects
<prophile>
my experience of C++ is that the path of least resistance is still slow
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Look! Whitequark came, too!
<prophile>
because rotating things around to be fast is such a fucking pain
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hey be nice to Paws prophile
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
she's fragile
<whitequark>
I fucking hate that aspect of the c-family
<prophile>
this one time I had to optimise an A* implementation
<prophile>
I couldn't sit down for a week
<whitequark>
"yeah it isn't correct... but it fast!"
<alexgordon>
C++ can be fast because you can avoid memory allocation
<alexgordon>
and it feels natural
<prophile>
dat RAII
<whitequark>
rofl
<whitequark>
(if you say *dynamic* memory allocation then maybe)
<prophile>
that I grant you, I do contend though that the big differences come from algorithm implementation rather than memory fiddling strategies
<alexgordon>
well obviously I meant dynamic memory allocation, because anything else wouldn't make sense
<prophile>
actually it's not that obvious
<whitequark>
I'll just let prophile make sense
<prophile>
part of the reason C is so popular in the microcontroller world is precisely because you can avoid dynamic memory allocation entirely
<alexgordon>
well what other types of memory allocation are there that you can avoid? if not dynamic
<prophile>
you can calculate a precise bound on your stack size and shove everything else in statics
<alexgordon>
yes but you wouldn't be avoiding that
<prophile>
moment
* prophile
rereads
<prophile>
yes, sorry, misinterpreted that
<prophile>
you are correct
<alexgordon>
yay lol
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
my prize: eternal loneliness
<alexgordon>
prophile: I see it said all the time, that the big differences come from algorithms
<alexgordon>
this might be true in C and C++
<prophile>
Congratulations, you win a prize. The prize is exactly the same apathy and contempt with which I treat all of our regulars.
<alexgordon>
but if you're comparing C++ vs Python, or C++ vs Haskell, it's just well... not
<prophile>
<something about rpython>
<whitequark>
rpython is, well, not python
<prophile>
strictly it is python, or a subset thereof
<whitequark>
you can just as well bring up shedskin, or starkiller
<prophile>
it's also fucking horrible
<whitequark>
prophile: it's about as python as asm.js is js
<alexgordon>
(yeah for future reference I ignore any implementations that are non-popular)
<whitequark>
ie, it isn't
<prophile>
it's like worse ML
<prophile>
alexgordon: rpython isn't an implementation, it's a language subset
<prophile>
the pypy native compiler is the implementation
<prophile>
but now i'm just splitting hairs
<whitequark>
though, rpython is awesome for the tasks it was written for
* alexgordon
seems to have entered the house of Pedants
<whitequark>
things they do with pypy is amazing
<prophile>
welcome alex
<whitequark>
the culmination of jit compiling
<prophile>
we've been expecting you
<prophile>
IMO the culmination of jit compiling would look more like luajit than pypy
<alexgordon>
jit compiling is a load of bullshit
<prophile>
which isn't to say pypy isn't very cool
<prophile>
tell me more, alexgordon
* prophile
gets out popcorn
<alexgordon>
it's like regular compiling, but slower
<alexgordon>
and harder to implement
<alexgordon>
and not as good
<alexgordon>
it's just... overrated
<whitequark>
prophile: elaborate on luajit
<alexgordon>
yeah, take luajit
<alexgordon>
how many platforms does it run on?
<alexgordon>
compare to llvm
<whitequark>
alexgordon: it isn't. it's much, much more precise than regular compiling
<alexgordon>
is it faster than llvm? no
<whitequark>
and, ironically, faster than llvm
<prophile>
faster for what?
<whitequark>
llvm is fucking slow as hell
<prophile>
llvm's a pretty fast static compiler
<prophile>
I wouldn't use it for jit
<whitequark>
exactly
<prophile>
i've only seen it work once as a jit compiler
<alexgordon>
well like if spend 10 minutes writing a program in lua, and run it on luajit
<prophile>
every other attempt at using it for jit has ended in disaster
<alexgordon>
then spend 10 minutes writing a program in C, and compile it with llvm
<whitequark>
prophile: now they have two JITs
<alexgordon>
or fuck, gcc
<whitequark>
one of them deprecated
<whitequark>
the second is broken
<alexgordon>
which will be faster?
<whitequark>
alexgordon: I'd guess about on par
<alexgordon>
you'd guess wrong!
<alexgordon>
unless it's a really shitty C programmer
<whitequark>
considering you perform operations on the same scale
<prophile>
probably C, although I'd say the development time estimate is off
<prophile>
in that a program that takes 10 minutes to implement in lua will probably take longer to implement in C
<alexgordon>
but anyway, even if it's ON PAR, it still runs on like one platform
<whitequark>
as in, if you operate ints in C, be sure to operate ints in lua.
<alexgordon>
compared to a fair few for llvm, or a gazillion for gcc
<alexgordon>
so what has this magical JIT got you?
<prophile>
luajit runs perfectly happily on win/lin/mac x86/x86_64 and ARM
<whitequark>
and that's about all platforms which matter
<prophile>
which represents a significant portion of the market
<prophile>
it covers all installations of windows, for instance
<whitequark>
alexgordon: magical JIT allows us to use a dynamic language
<whitequark>
and have it perform nearly as fast as usual static ones
<whitequark>
or better.
<alexgordon>
that is not a good thing
<alexgordon>
I prefer compiled languages!
<prophile>
why?
<whitequark>
there are things you cannot do with a JIT
<whitequark>
if you want predictable code, you're off
<whitequark>
if you want to have understanding of the result, you're off
<alexgordon>
it just feels like going backwards
<whitequark>
or you have a shitty jit
<prophile>
alexgordon: that sounds very vague...
<whitequark>
alexgordon: compiled languages? or languages with better type systems?
<prophile>
could you make that more concrete?
<whitequark>
with the latter I agree
<alexgordon>
whitequark: mostly the same thing these days
<whitequark>
alexgordon: no
<alexgordon>
yes...
<whitequark>
the one is talking about implementation
<whitequark>
the other is about semantics
<alexgordon>
so?
<whitequark>
not the same.
<whitequark>
implementations always get better
<prophile>
alexgordon: I find it helps to actually analyse and find what my problems are when I have vague dislike for something
<alexgordon>
they are correlated to the point of being indistinguishable in real languages
<whitequark>
you can take the shittiest thing and make it fast
<whitequark>
eg. V8
<whitequark>
semantics, you need to think about.
<alexgordon>
prophile: depends, are we talking about dynamic languages or JITs?
<prophile>
alexgordon: well, exactly
<alexgordon>
dynamic languages are fine, insofar as they allow me to write short programs with a minimum of fuss
<prophile>
we were talking about JITs and then it went into preferring compiled languages
<alexgordon>
I wouldn't want statically checked shell scripts
<prophile>
well, strictly speaking
<prophile>
bash has static typing
<prophile>
in that there's only one type
<alexgordon>
LOL
<purr>
LOL
<prophile>
and thus you can statically determine the type of any variable :)
<whitequark>
actually, you do want statically checked everything
<alexgordon>
no I really don't
<prophile>
I tend to agree with whitequark, checking is good
<alexgordon>
I do actually like python. For "scripting" purposes
<whitequark>
the only reason JITs are able to make dynamic languages fast is because they're not really that dynamic
<prophile>
although you have hit on a counterexample with shell scripting
<whitequark>
in practice
<alexgordon>
I write lots of 20 line programs
<whitequark>
as in... most method calls are monomorphic, for example
<prophile>
I'd still want to be able to check even a tiny script
<prophile>
even if just for the peace of mind
<alexgordon>
I find for most 20 line programs, they are fast enough, and I usually get them right first time
<prophile>
one of my friends has recently entered the rspec core team
<alexgordon>
so there is no utility in static typing
<prophile>
and having been pelted with rspec repeatedly, i've come to greatly appreciate the peace of mind from being able to check that things work
<whitequark>
ugh. rspec
* whitequark
doesn't get it. why did they feel a need to build a totally new language on top of ruby
<prophile>
rspec is excellent and if you don't think so, you're racist and hate the scots
<prophile>
why do you hate the scots whitequark
<prophile>
they have awesome accents
<prophile>
and whiskey
<whitequark>
rspec is a pile of unneeded DSLs
<prophile>
I find it very natural and clean to use
<whitequark>
which should be burned in favor of minitest.
<alexgordon>
oh another thing about JITs I don't like
<whitequark>
prophile: it's slightly awkward to use, but that's not the worst part
<whitequark>
it's insanely hard to extend
<prophile>
and if my rspec friend wasn't (a) asleep and (b) probably currently has a BAC >100% I'd bring him in here
<alexgordon>
JITs require executable memory (I think?)
<whitequark>
I don't think I was ever able to accomplish what I want, in less than a hour, without reading kilometers of that
<whitequark>
sources
<prophile>
alexgordon: yes, they do
<whitequark>
alexgordon: yes
<alexgordon>
just, from a security point of view, that's disgusting
<prophile>
in some form
<prophile>
at any rate
<prophile>
alexgordon: I... disagree, I think
<prophile>
I'd want my security mechanisms at a different level
<prophile>
clamping down on syscalls and such for instance
<prophile>
a la seccomp, or seatbelt/sandbox
<whitequark>
prophile: NX memory would actually help
<whitequark>
if not for the fact that VMs are everywhere, anyway
<whitequark>
so you can in effect execute arbitrary code even without executable memory
<prophile>
there's an argument to be made that each process in running a VM of sorts
<prophile>
I'd have to dig out my tanenbaum book to quote it word for word though
<whitequark>
by the way, you can apply JIT techniques to code which is not actually JITted
<prophile>
(modern operating systems. a damn good book)
<whitequark>
for example
<whitequark>
Obj-C method caches
<alexgordon>
sure, and that's great
<prophile>
there's jit in linux
<prophile>
I just remembered
<whitequark>
bpf?
<prophile>
yeah
<whitequark>
it's not turing complete
<whitequark>
to my knowledge
<prophile>
no, but it is JIT
<prophile>
and it's being used in the seccomp thing now too
<prophile>
it's pretty cool
<prophile>
I wish someone would come along with a network card which you can offload bpf things to as well
<prophile>
that'd be cool
<whitequark>
prophile: there's a ton of "fat NICs"
<whitequark>
or rather, there were
<whitequark>
it turned out that making good hardware is hard, same for firmware
<whitequark>
and it's much easier to just offload stuff to the CPU
<whitequark>
onload?
<prophile>
"handle stuff on"
<whitequark>
so... I think that only the simplest and most common things remained in NICs
<prophile>
I'd like to seen an open hardware NIC
<whitequark>
tcp checksum or what it was
<prophile>
tcp checksum offload
<prophile>
(and udp!)
<whitequark>
yeah
<whitequark>
CRC-32
<whitequark>
thirty two triggers and a few wires
<whitequark>
everything more complex people screw up
<prophile>
well, it's more likely implemented in firmware
<whitequark>
though, I think I've seen errata in CRC-32 modules
<prophile>
than actually in hardware
<whitequark>
prophile: I doubt so
<whitequark>
why would you?
<prophile>
because you have to recognise whereabouts in the packet it is and turn it off and on and such
<prophile>
besides which, firmware is cheaper
<whitequark>
prophile: nah
<whitequark>
firmware feeds the CRC-32 module
<whitequark>
sets up the DMA transfers to it, or whatever's the NIC variant of the idea
<whitequark>
or at least this is how it would be implemented in any modern SoC
<prophile>
DMA is still a thing even in little microcontrollers
<prophile>
interesting
<whitequark>
prophile: hm?
<prophile>
I'll have to find out more tomorrow
<alexgordon>
TOAST
<whitequark>
check out how STM32 does with that
<whitequark>
neat chips
<whitequark>
buggy though
<prophile>
god I love STM32s
<whitequark>
ya
<prophile>
SR's just built a new motor controller with an STM32 core
<prophile>
I'm interested in doing FRP stuff on microcontrollers
<whitequark>
mmmmm
<whitequark>
I'm not that into FRP
<alexgordon>
you know what. what really pisses me off? C should have been a low point, not a high point of programming language design
<whitequark>
it IS
<alexgordon>
yes it IS
<alexgordon>
but
<alexgordon>
It's like, as soon as C89 achieved, the world's programming language designers went "Yep, that's good enough. Let's masturbate around with some crappy languages for the next 25 years"
<prophile>
I'm looking into definining formal semantics for discrete FRP for my uni thesis
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Hi
<prophile>
should be interesting
<prophile>
hey elliott
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: right on cue
<alexgordon>
C should not be the best example of language design we have
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: hi!
<alexgordon>
yet it is
<alexgordon>
that speaks volumes
<prophile>
cough, cough, haskell
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
language design?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but I'm busy! D:
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
damn you.
<whitequark>
prophile: well, Foundry's less about doing some interesting FP stuff, and is more about being a workhorse. something that C/C++ could not achieve.
<prophile>
I'm still interesting in fiddling with it
<whitequark>
it's rather bland from the point of interesting features. I think the most interesting part is its partial evaluator
<prophile>
one of my long-term backburner projects is an STM32-based arduino type situation
<whitequark>
aka, how I make the language static but retain most of the dynamism.
<alexgordon>
well if the eventual goal of a language, just like the goal of a species, is to ensure it sticks around in as many places as possible, then C is doing a much better job than Haskell is
<prophile>
if that's the goal for language design then FORTRAN takes the first prize by a looooong way
<alexgordon>
nah, there's more C than Haskell in active use
<prophile>
Foundry could be interesting for that
<alexgordon>
erm
<alexgordon>
FORTRAN
<whitequark>
prophile: yeah
<prophile>
I think you'd be surprised, alex
<whitequark>
I'm testing it on such a board
<alexgordon>
I know people use fortran a lot
<alexgordon>
but
<alexgordon>
C gets more use
<prophile>
I'm not sure you're right
<prophile>
but we'd need data to actually find out
<alexgordon>
first we need to decide if we're going by code or installations
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
wait, prophile is working on Foundry too?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
when did I miss this!?
<prophile>
no, I just found out about it
<alexgordon>
there might be more fortran code in existence, but if it's only running on a few supercomputers...
<alexgordon>
I'm trying to be miserable here, stop being more miserable than me
<alexgordon>
I'm probably biased by my hatred of dynamic languages though
<whitequark>
"ALGOL 60 is not just improvement on its predecessors, but also on most of its successors"
<alexgordon>
I'm sure if you're a PHP developer, C is scary scary stuff!
<prophile>
just to lower the tone here
<whitequark>
C is scary scary stuff either way
<alexgordon>
nah, PHP is scarier for me
<prophile>
I should mention that a friend of mine works on a Visual Studio COBOL plugin
<prophile>
which is used for COBOL .Net
* whitequark
is not surprised
* ELLIOTTCABLE
blinks twice
* alexgordon
blinks many times, daily
<prophile>
next to that, even PHP looks good
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
God damnit.
<alexgordon>
I just don't know why people bother making languages that suck
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm literally incapable of understanding normal-world-C-source-code.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I just can't fucking wrap my head around anything in the git codebase.
<alexgordon>
making a language is harder than knowing if it's any good or not
<whitequark>
mmmm git
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I feel like I'd need to spend a week studying this before I could make one line of change. ಠ_ಠ
<whitequark>
git has good sources
<whitequark>
compared to, for example, GNU anything
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark ⑊ ah! you're familiar with it! HALP
<whitequark>
I recently discovered that GNU tar (I think) contains an entire fucking libc
<whitequark>
well, almost
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I was kinda hoping this gonna be in sh. Nope, the part I need to modify is apparently in C.
<whitequark>
it has several dozens shims for various stuff
<whitequark>
printf, etc
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: whaddayawant
<alexgordon>
can we all at least agree that stallman has set programming back 20 years?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
trying to duplicate the `--date-order` flag to git-log
<prophile>
no
<prophile>
the world of programming is advancing very quickly
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and make an identical flag that uses the *author* date-order instead of the *comitter* date-order
<prophile>
despite stallman
<alexgordon>
legally, technically and aromatically
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you don't pay me enough for that
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I can't imagine that it should be that hard to do; all the code will already be there for --date-order, I just need to copy it and change all the references to whatever the equivalent of commit->committer->date to commit->author->date or what the *fuck* ever their implementation does
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
here have some bitcoins
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“legally, technically and aromatically”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
laughed.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
code smell.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
nice play on words.
<alexgordon>
also feet
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
how the FUCK do flags get into the codebase.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
should have been as easy as grep --date-order, but it's not at all. ಠ_ಠ
<whitequark>
getopt?
<whitequark>
github.com/git/git ← lol
<purr>
lol
<gkatsev>
6 pull requests on that.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
all of them with automatic “go away we don't do pureqs” comments
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
prophile: "I wish nigger was more socially acceptable because it's a great onomatopoeia for the sound of a helicopter. niggerniggerniggerniggerniggerniggernigger"
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
prophile: "I wish nigger was more socially acceptable because it's a great onomatopoeia for the sound of a helicopter. niggerniggerniggerniggerniggerniggernigger" wat.
<purr>
beep.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
A *really bad* porn site
<prophile>
etis norp
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
God damnit ;_;
<alexgordon>
I came expecting code, instead I just came
<prophile>
the facebook of sex
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: it's okayish
<prophile>
the github of lesbians
<whitequark>
at least it doesn't pop up shit all the way 'round
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Isn't GitHub *already* the GitHub for lesbians?
<prophile>
just because she's a lesbian doesn't mean she'll code ruby for you
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: insofar as you comprise over 50% of it, and you look like a lesbian
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I comprise 50% of GitHub? And I look like a lesbian?
* ELLIOTTCABLE
is boggling right now
<prophile>
you keep using that word
<prophile>
i don't think it means what you think it means
<prophile>
'comprise'
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
right!?
<alexgordon>
moi?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
god help me somebody i will throw money at you
<prophile>
if a is built out of b
<alexgordon>
I comprise of many words
<prophile>
then a comprises b
<prophile>
"a is comprised of b" makes no sense
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you can climb poles, I will make it rain, whole nine yards
<prophile>
if anything it makes it sound like b is built out of a
<alexgordon>
I meant that ELLIOTTCABLE is responsible for over 50% of the code in github
<prophile>
better
<alexgordon>
but it's not funny if you say it like that
<alexgordon>
maybe it's not funny either way
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
which is patently untrue ;_;
<alexgordon>
I don't care. I want cake
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I write so little code
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<prophile>
CAKE
<prophile>
DID YOU BRING CAKE SGEO
Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
* alexgordon
stuffs himself full of the brown goodness
<prophile>
twss
<alexgordon>
I hope not
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
...
<prophile>
I didn't know she even knew you
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what the ACTUAL fuck just happened
<prophile>
once upon a time
<prophile>
when I was a wee 16 year old
<alexgordon>
CAKE
<prophile>
one of my peers broke out the phrase 'I used to have one of those'
<prophile>
I vended a twss then came to the horrible realisation I'd never get a twss as good as that again
* ELLIOTTCABLE
laughs
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so, if we're doing that one time I delivered a joke really well stories,
<prophile>
oh don't get me wrong
<prophile>
I didn't deliver it well
<prophile>
I was 16
<alexgordon>
twss
<prophile>
I said it quietly then laughed at my own joke
<prophile>
because I was that cool
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
didj'all hear about the time I got kicked out of a car on the side of the road outside Seattle 'cause a dude's mom just died and I “I <blank> your mother last night”'d?
<alexgordon>
nope
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
never spoke to him again
<alexgordon>
nor does it surprise me
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it was great
<prophile>
what about her?
<Sgeo_>
prophile, yes, with a part rhubarb on fire
<prophile>
lovely
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I don't remember; it was in a period of time in my life when “<something something> your mom” was my default response to basically everything
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
♪ Toxix, Glee
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: Song not found. ):
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
♪ Toxic, Glee
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE is listening to “Toxic [Britney Spears]”, by New Direction
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
*completely* lack of documentation is *complete*
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
damnit, now you've got me wanting to spider jazz, prophile
<alexgordon>
spider jazz?
<alexgordon>
prophile: Cry Baby is classier
<prophile>
uh huh
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
spider, as in, spider through, listening to stuff on the radio and alternately switching over to spider through a particular artist's tracks
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
how I discover most of my music.
<alexgordon>
oh
<alexgordon>
right
<alexgordon>
I do that
* ELLIOTTCABLE
nods
<alexgordon>
though instead of the radio, I use youtube suggestions :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
wat
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you're a joking thing
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you actually mean Pandora or Spotify Radio in the real world
<alexgordon>
pandora?
<alexgordon>
also spotify radio sucks greatly
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lies.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Spotify Radio is *truly excellent* for the kinds of music I like
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
better than Pandora in *some* situations, and that's saying a lot
<prophile>
I want
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: well, tell me if you find anything
<prophile>
ice cream
<prophile>
but all the fucking shops shut at 11
<prophile>
FML
<alexgordon>
it's really hot in here, not sure if it's the three computers I have on
<joelteon>
oh boy
<alexgordon>
oh god I need to clean my ears
<alexgordon>
after jemini
<prophile>
thanks for sharing
<prophile>
oic
<prophile>
might I recommend some miles davis
<alexgordon>
what's the thing that does it for an artist?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
There's the original implementation to the best of my ability to spelunk
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
trying to figure out where it's moved since then
<vil>
7 years ago
<vil>
dear god
<vil>
it could've gotten to anywhere
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Bisecting: 15117 revisions left to test after this (roughly 14 steps)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
fucking nearly 2**14
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
14 fucking bisections
<vil>
what does bisect do?
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: I recently did 15
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
splits the history between you (a known-bad commit) and a given commit (known-good), allowing you to work with the repository at each half
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and tell it whether you're closer or further from the goal.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark ⑊ on what!?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark ⑊ oh, llvm
<vil>
interesting
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
vil ⑊ normally it's to find out which commit broke a test
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
vil ⑊ but for me, it's finding out which commit moved this shit
<joelteon>
llvm is cute
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so I've gotta do 14 bisection-tests, *each time I find another move*
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark ⑊ Paws compiler. let's talk while I bisect.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
♪ Molly
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE is listening to “Drunken Lullabies”, by Flogging Molly
<jeannicolas>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you should read Shibumi!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jeannicolas ⑊ oh my god you spoke to me
* ELLIOTTCABLE
pinches himself
* ELLIOTTCABLE
slaps himself
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
is this real life
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what is shibumi
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
did I hallucinate that word
<jeannicolas>
:D
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it must be real life I doubt I would ever hallucinate something that Eastern-sounding
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm the Unaboo™.
<jeannicolas>
novel by Trevanian!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what's that jeannicolas
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
who's that jeannicolas
<jeannicolas>
it's hard to explain really… we had to read that novel in a bookclub and I thought it was a bit boring but apparently a lot of people loved it.. and there's a whole lot of spelunking going on in it :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
... >,<
<gkatsev>
shipoopi?
<jeannicolas>
I'm pretty sure it was a good novel… I'm just easily bored… but apparently it was really good… I bet you would love it!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
god i want my salt-n-vinegar schips
<jeannicolas>
I'm not doing a good job at selling it am I?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jeannicolas ⑊ you should talk to meee moreee offfften
<jeannicolas>
"Shibumi is a novel published in 1979, written in English by Trevanian, a pseudonym of Rodney William Whitaker, an American academic who remained mysterious throughout most of his life"
<jeannicolas>
I mean that right there…. makes it interesting… no?
<jeannicolas>
ELLIOTTCABLE: ok! let's see! last time we talked you had never drank alcohol and you were writing Paws!… WHAT'S UP!
<jeannicolas>
I *think* you have tried alcohol since then!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I was hilariously drunk with jessica in here last night
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but I can't talk *right now* very well, buried in git's source-code and very unhappy with it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
just lurk and say hi once in a while jeeze
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(=
<jeannicolas>
that's not a fun place to be!
<jeannicolas>
yeah I should! and I wanted to a couple of times… I just feel like I've been an outsider for so long hehe
<jeannicolas>
I have no idea who anyone in here is besides you, alex and micah… and sephr…and devyn I guess! :)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh come on you know everybody
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you're not a fuckin' outsider
<joelteon>
jeannicolas: you made chocolat
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
the only new people who are regulars are whitequark and gkatsev
<joelteon>
i'm a regular
<joelteon>
:(
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
don't tell me you don't remember nuck, prophile, brr ... COME ON.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and vil?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jeannicolas ⑊ vil == spherecat1
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jog your memory?
<nuck>
haha
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
abd joelteon == otters, but you were probably before his time
<jeannicolas>
yeah nuck and prophile definitely ring a bell
<nuck>
joelteon is my stalker
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Girlfriend just told me I was “sexy” for spelunking git.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
She's not a developer.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
She just, apparently, gets turned on by the word “spelunking.”
<nuck>
That is so ... creepy
<joelteon>
that's gay
<jeannicolas>
who doesn't...
<nuck>
Creepy coming from me means a lot.
<jeannicolas>
3 different opinions right there
<gkatsev>
ELLIOTTCABLE: new people who are regulars?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gkatsev ⑊ hm?
<gkatsev>
I dont understand how I can be new and a regular?
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: since when you have a girlfriend
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gkatsev ⑊ this room is something like four fucking years old
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gkatsev ⑊ and jeannicolas has been gone for probably more than a year
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gkatsev ⑊ you've only been a regular relatively recently. If I recall correctly, you started being *active* on-and-off within the last few months.
<jeannicolas>
also… I only get slightly turned on by the word "spelunking"… I guess that's slightly gay and a bit creepy!… in the end we were all right really!
<gkatsev>
ELLIOTTCABLE: I've been here since #elliottcable has turned into ##Hat and back
<gkatsev>
heck, since ##Paws
<jeannicolas>
I know I've seen gkatsev before (the nick that is)...
<nuck>
jeannicolas: Does this mean you have a slight boner for elliott?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark ⑊ I usually have one. My love life gets covered in here on a regular basis, just wait until somebody says something that makes me mention my history again
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gkatsev ⑊ yes, but you weren't at all active for the vast majority of that time. c'mmon.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
♪ Ninur, Savant
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE is listening to “You can Play”, by Savant
<joelteon>
is it possible to stop microsoft from turning everything they touch into carcinogenic waste
<gkatsev>
what now?
<whitequark>
(being thick on purpose) I refuse to treat trolls with respect
<whitequark>
if you're acting like an idiot, you are an idiot.
<joelteon>
gkatsev: skype
<gkatsev>
ah
<gkatsev>
skype was broken a long time ago though
<joelteon>
yeah, I did the math
<joelteon>
it's been broken since Microsoft acquired it
<gkatsev>
no
<gkatsev>
since before
<joelteon>
well
<joelteon>
technically, the last release before microsoft acquired it was broken
<gkatsev>
the new UI as of version 4.x was utter shit
<joelteon>
yeah, but who cares about the UI if you can use the API
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
...
<joelteon>
microsoft managed to break the API too
sephr has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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* inimino
immediately afks
<joelteon>
bye
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
TOLD YOU HE WASN'T DEAD.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Just in china.
<joelteon>
same thing
sephr-space has joined #elliottcable
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lol it's sephr
<purr>
lol
<sephr-space>
ELLIOTTCABLE: i noticed in muPaws.js/readme it says you wont impl concurrency
<sephr-space>
dealing with web workers is easy
<sephr-space>
and with the async.js 2.0 update making threads is as easy as `yield thread(func)`
<sephr-space>
but primarily intended to be used with async.js call descriptors instead of funcs
<sephr-space>
though you can drop in funcs as well
<sephr-space>
2.0 isnt out yet but ill push it this weekend hopefully
<sephr-space>
ive been putting it off
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
web workers aren't appropriate
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
can only transfer stringish messages; whereas I need each stage to work on the same memory-space
<sephr-space>
what kind of limitation makes them inappropriate?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
was intending to do web-workers in Paws.js for a while, but µpaws.js was never going to do it
<sephr-space>
you can transfer binary buffers to workers
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
again, not enough
<sephr-space>
arraybuffers, blobs, etc.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I need to *access the same objects* on multiple stages
<sephr-space>
you can pull it off with sharedworkers as long as the entire paws runtime is limited to sharedworkers then
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
explain
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and that's still not good enough; becasue I need an external JS API
<joelteon>
why not just explain paws
<sephr-space>
lol
<purr>
lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
i.e. external code needs to be able to grab a Paws object, do shit to it directly, and that object needs to be floating around within the Paws data-graph *that the stages are operating on*
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
joelteon ⑊ sephr already knows some
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
can't be arsed to do a big “teach somebody Paws” thing right now, busy with git
<sephr-space>
a bit yeah
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
made huge progress
<sephr-space>
i've been watching and the progress is looking good
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
not Paws progress
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
git progress
<joelteon>
ok
<joelteon>
so
<joelteon>
if your ribs are visible
<joelteon>
you should be able to get abs without cutting any
<joelteon>
i feel like
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
... wat
<sephr-space>
abs?
<sephr-space>
oh
<sephr-space>
joelteon: are you doing something legal?
<joelteon>
yeah
<sephr-space>
clearly legal or questionably?
<joelteon>
clearly
<joelteon>
well
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
... what
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
confused.
<joelteon>
except for the seeding
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
abs? as in, abdominal musculature?
<joelteon>
but
<joelteon>
yeah
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what the hell is being discussed here?
<joelteon>
not ABS
<joelteon>
abdominals
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
do u even lift
<jeannicolas>
♪ Selkies: The Endless Obsession
<purr>
jeannicolas is listening to “Selkies: The Endless Obsession”, by Between the Buried and Me
<jeannicolas>
haha I love that song… and it's definitely the best out of their self-titled album so don't bother with it if you don't like the song :P
<joelteon>
it's like they were writing parallax
<joelteon>
and they revised their first draft like six times
<joelteon>
and that was their first draft
<jeannicolas>
I guess you could say that about any band's 6th album ;)
<joelteon>
yeah
<joelteon>
well
<joelteon>
that's why I like the more recent albums
<jeannicolas>
most of my friends like Colors the best
<joelteon>
colors is good
<jeannicolas>
my 2 favs are definitely The Silent Circus and Alaska…but I'm guessing that's mostly because they are the 2 albums I've heard the most by them
<joelteon>
that might be it
<joelteon>
how much i like one of their albums is directly proportional to how much i listen to it
<jeannicolas>
except for the really catchy stuff… where I like it really quickly….and hate it just as quickly!
<jeannicolas>
but they are anything but catchy haha
<jeannicolas>
so yeah… gotta agree
<joelteon>
oh parallax i is also good
<joelteon>
Wanting what they have, with their perfect smiles and heartless lusts.
<joelteon>
good shit
<eccloud>
wow.
<eccloud>
brr's channel is a strange place.
<brr>
lol
<purr>
lol
<brr>
currently putting utf8+colored nicknames back on
<brr>
so maybe itll be stranger
<eccloud>
egads
<eccloud>
doubt irccloud supports that
<brr>
??
<brr>
it just works
<brr>
on every client
<brr>
that ive seen
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