ELLIOTTCABLE changed the topic of #elliottcable to: #ELLIOTTCABLE: Puppy paws patter placidly through the pale passageways ...
<alexgordon>
slow channel is slow
<purr>
<Nuck> I'm gonna go write a state machine, because it makes more sense than Elliott does.
sharkbot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sharkbot has joined #elliottcable
Aria has joined #elliottcable
<joelteon>
wow it's really quiet in here
<alexgordon>
yeah
<alexgordon>
wonder if I can write a python script to generate a compiler for me
<alexgordon>
i.e.
<alexgordon>
write the grammar rules
<alexgordon>
write the lexical syntax
<alexgordon>
I'm super lazy
<alexgordon>
have it generate the ragel and lemon files, and the AST
<alexgordon>
and all that shit
<alexgordon>
won't know if I don't try!
<joelteon>
a python script to generate a compiler
<alexgordon>
no
<joelteon>
whynot.jpg
<alexgordon>
a python script, to generate a grammar, to pass to a compiler compiler, to generate the C++ source for a compiler, to be compiled by a C++ compiler
<joelteon>
ok
<alexgordon>
alexgordon: wat.
<purr>
beep.
<joelteon>
the fuck is that for
<alexgordon>
what
<joelteon>
the "wat" thing
<joelteon>
where purr beeps
<alexgordon>
purr has a database of quotes
<alexgordon>
which it reposts in the channel at random
<alexgordon>
at some point that will get requoted and elliott will wonder "WTF?!"
<alexgordon>
lulz will be had
<alexgordon>
-find compiler
<purr>
alexgordon: Could not find `compiler`.
<alexgordon>
dammit
<alexgordon>
dammit
<alexgordon>
WE DO IT LIVE
* alexgordon
gets out google docs
<alexgordon>
joelteon: this is something I've been doing recently
<alexgordon>
writing specifications, and then writing a python script to parse it and turn it into code
<alexgordon>
I find it to be faster and more efficient, because I can more easily see the errors in a human readable specification
<alexgordon>
and I can easily generate stuff like documentation
<alexgordon>
like I'm adding a ",s" to mean a comma separated list
<alexgordon>
and indentation to mean grammatical alternation
<alexgordon>
though on second thought maybe ",s" isn't such a good way of writing it
<alexgordon>
I'll settle for ,+
<joelteon>
oh yeah
<alexgordon>
man getting the syntax of this is hard
<alexgordon>
if expressions can start statements...
<alexgordon>
maybe that should only apply in assignments
<alexgordon>
there's a whole bunch of stuff that I could allow
<alexgordon>
but I'm not sure if I should allow it
<alexgordon>
I'll err towards not allowing it
<joelteon>
err
<alexgordon>
I think what I realized last time was that it's better to sort stuff out at the semantic analysis phase than to try and catch errors during parsing
<alexgordon>
since parsers suck at that
<alexgordon>
oh MAN this is so much nicer than what I was doing before
<alexgordon>
I actually have space to think
<alexgordon>
whole grammar fits on one page
<alexgordon>
etc etc
<alexgordon>
statement syntax is the hardest
<alexgordon>
everything else is easy peasy
vil has joined #elliottcable
<alexgordon>
guys
<alexgordon>
guys
<alexgordon>
guys
<vil>
whatwhathawhthawhthaht
<alexgordon>
help me name furrow's standard library
<alexgordon>
paws has "fullness"
<vil>
"awesomeness"
<alexgordon>
which sounds like a porn movie. Anal Fullness 3
<vil>
well you can't have Cornerstone, that's mine
<alexgordon>
Foundation? nah cocoa has that
<alexgordon>
Furrow Foundation sounds cool though
<alexgordon>
Furrow Rut?
<vil>
YES
<vil>
Ditch
<vil>
no Rut is better
<alexgordon>
Ditch haha
<alexgordon>
Furrow Hoe?
<vil>
I got excited because I thought I could access my server from the internet over IPv6 but it was a lie
<vil>
LIE
<vil>
AT&T is horrible people
<alexgordon>
calling a standard library "std" always seemed rather shady
<alexgordon>
I feel a bit weird googling "std vector"
<vil>
yeah, I never figured out why they thought that was a good idea
<alexgordon>
I should call the standard library Condom
<vil>
^^
<vil>
Protection
<alexgordon>
batteries
<vil>
…my router just gave me a 408 timeout
<vil>
what the fuck
<alexgordon>
I kind of like "batteries" it gives the right connotations
<vil>
hmm
<vil>
should be more sci-fi
<vil>
some sort of core
<alexgordon>
there will be a "core"
<alexgordon>
akin to haskell's prelude
<alexgordon>
i.e. each furrow program has an implicit "from core"
<alexgordon>
at the top
<alexgordon>
btw btw vil I think I just saved a week's work by writing furrow's grammar this way
<purr>
<AAA_awright> Fine I guess you don't want me
<purr>
<yrashk> super async MMORPG
eligrey has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<purr>
<purr> Factoid ‘sephr’: Popularity 0.
<micahjohnston>
fuck
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<devyn>
micahjohnston enters the channel
<devyn>
“fuck”
<devyn>
micahjohnston: wat.
<purr>
beep.
<joelteon>
butts
<devyn>
joelteon: wat.
<purr>
beep.
<devyn>
man that creates such a clear auditory image
<devyn>
I just imagine a guy with a solid tenor voice going “beep” monotonically
<devyn>
with a slight kermit-like deformation
<joelteon>
heh
<joelteon>
i know the feel
<joelteon>
jesus why am I staying up past midnight to work on my bot
<devyn>
haha
<joelteon>
i was sleepy at the gym
<joelteon>
while doing cardio
<joelteon>
something is wrong there
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<devyn>
yup
<devyn>
I still find it amusing that the OS X icon for an SMB-based (Windows) server is an old ugly-as-shit CRT PC monitor with a Win2000–XP BSOD on it
<joelteon>
that's a smug asshole kind of thing to do
<joelteon>
but that's ok because i don't use windows
<purr>
<micahjohnston> what was that one webcomic with lots of dicks in it
<joelteon>
devyn:
<joelteon>
what is that
<vil>
the fuck
yorick has joined #elliottcable
<devyn>
joelteon: it's concentrated beauty
<joelteon>
what language is it
whitequark has joined #elliottcable
owenb_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
dnyy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
dnyy_ has joined #elliottcable
<purr>
<alexgordon> elliottcable: 1. seduce isaacs, 2. change the name
elliottcable has joined #elliottcable
<elliottcable>
oops
<elliottcable>
I apepar to have made a hole in my logs, somehow
ellio has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
gozala_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
<joelteon>
well at least it wasn't in your legs
ellio has joined #elliottcable
gozala_ has joined #elliottcable
eligrey has joined #elliottcable
<vil>
I read those two lines at the same time, so I thought it said legs
<vil>
hi ELLIOTTCABLE
<joelteon>
yeah I thought it said legs the first time
<vil>
ack, lag skyrocketing
<vil>
and now it's gone
<vil>
weird
<vil>
joelteon: wasn't sure whether to respond "that sounds uncomfortable" or "why the fuck are you telling us instead of fixing it"
<joelteon>
ah, the old bash.org standby
<joelteon>
"my house is on fire, i'll tell people on irc"
<vil>
"<Xavier> if it has 'teen' in the channel name, the collective iq of the group can automatically be assumed to be a negative value"
<vil>
bahaha
eligrey has quit [Client Quit]
<vil>
I don't visit this site often enough
<vil>
to be fair, he was in here during a tornado one time, so…
<elliottcable>
what site
<vil>
bash.org
<elliottcable>
and yes, there was a tornado *storm* (very different thing, multiple short tornados, not something you can just plot the path of and be all “meh it's not headed for me”)
eligrey has joined #elliottcable
<vil>
I should make my motd pull from that quote db
<elliottcable>
My house. Is so fucking empty.
<joelteon>
fill it
<vil>
I can't even imagine the weird feeling that must have
<vil>
haven't moved since I was two
<elliottcable>
no, I just emptied it
<vil>
I mean, to a dorm I guess, but that doesn't really count
<elliottcable>
(That's both combined into a single folder.)
<elliottcable>
Save it to ~/Photos or whatever, drag the savedSearch to the dock.
<vil>
oh nice
<devyn>
I'm ffffffing hungry
<purr>
<alexgordon> now if I could download popcorn from usenet...
<alexgordon>
sup ELLIOTTCABLE
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: omg retina display is so cool
<alexgordon>
how do you read text that small?!
<joelteon>
retina display is cool
<elliottcable>
alexgordon ⑊ what?
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: text in your screenshots is small
<elliottcable>
is it?
<elliottcable>
do you want a retina display?
<alexgordon>
yeah the <+ELLIOTTCABLE>
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: if you're willing to buy me one!
<elliottcable>
Write a Paws. I'll give you enough Bitcoin for one.
<elliottcable>
;)
<elliottcable>
mind you, that's proffering a gift. Not contracting for payment.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: I would if I knew how
* elliottcable
laughs
<elliottcable>
that requires a certain amount of paying attention / showing interest.
<elliottcable>
I'm sure you know enough C++ to write one.
<alexgordon>
man,
<alexgordon>
C++ is not the issue
<alexgordon>
the lack of a concrete written spec...
<elliottcable>
No, that was commentary to myself.
<alexgordon>
that is the issue
* elliottcable
shrugs
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<elliottcable>
you can write one without a spec. You'd just have to live without the resultant feel-good of “Look! I adhered to a spec!”
<alexgordon>
er
<alexgordon>
no I honestly can't
<alexgordon>
I have no idea what the precise semantics are
<elliottcable>
it's a young language. In this case, you'd be helping *develop* the specification; as a specification can't exist until we work out distribution semantics and the IPP.
* elliottcable
eyebrow
<elliottcable>
you should try.
<alexgordon>
I have tried
<alexgordon>
it ended in failure
owenb__ has joined #elliottcable
<elliottcable>
didn't try hard enough! You gave yourself *one day*, sillypants mclonghair.
<elliottcable>
alexgordon ⑊ c'mmon. I want to see what *you* make of this. Really. I do.
<alexgordon>
make of what?
<elliottcable>
alexgordon ⑊ For one thing, it's much more straight-forward than it was last time; it's been implemented *several* times, and everything's pretty well-specified at this point. The only reason there's no formal specification, is becasue the part that's done is *incomplete*. Everything that's done, may need to be changed in light of distribution/bubbles/Units, that whole category of concepts.
<alexgordon>
paws is not fully specified in my head. not even half specified.
<elliottcable>
yes, I know
<alexgordon>
so how would I write code for something I don't understand?
<elliottcable>
micahjohnston, devyn, myself, or probably half of the other people in this channel can help with that;
<elliottcable>
and even if we couldn't, there's *actual working code* that could.
<alexgordon>
when I start programming, I like to have in my head a plan that will get me from start to finish
<alexgordon>
it doesn't need to be fully specified... BUT
<alexgordon>
I need to have, in my head, an assurance that I'll be able to figure out the bits I don't understand
* elliottcable
nods
<alexgordon>
not sure how I would get that with paws
<elliottcable>
mmmm
<elliottcable>
well, we have a working implementation, with which I can sit down and *show* you what various things do
<alexgordon>
either it needs a specification, or it needs example code that tests every part of it
<elliottcable>
at least, up to a point
<alexgordon>
or something
<alexgordon>
that formalizes it
<elliottcable>
hmmm that said, I need to write some sort of tutorial.
<alexgordon>
so that it's not just in your noggin
<elliottcable>
alexgordon ⑊ you should try, nonetheless. I want to get you involved, and as long as you keep believing it's some big black box of confusingness, I'll never be able to do so.
<elliottcable>
Getting you to try implementing it, now that it's easy, serves two purposes:
<elliottcable>
1. curing your Blackboxia, and 2. giving me yet another implementation with which to begin to attempt to design distribution.
<elliottcable>
alexgordon ⑊ If you're willing, we can sit down and talk about it soon. I didn't mean you had to start now.
<elliottcable>
In fact, because of my life-situation at the moment, I'm basically *stuck* in a cheap hotel for part of the coming week. I *may* be travelling to Chicago for the weekend, but after I get back, I should be extremely free until my car's repaired.
<elliottcable>
If we can find a good time for you, I can sit down and get you started.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: yeah sorry, in the middle of something right now, maybe at the weekend
<elliottcable>
or at the very least, talk this through.
<alexgordon>
but
<elliottcable>
yep, exactly
<alexgordon>
you should write up stuff
<elliottcable>
either the weekend, if I end up not flying north; or at the beginning of next week.
<elliottcable>
I'm planning to, when I have time.
<elliottcable>
got a few blocker-issues like the one I just posted above, though.
<elliottcable>
Design flaws that need to be worked out *before* I can even bother writing up example documentation, or continuing to port Paws.js, or getting you started
<elliottcable>
here's a nice little test: can you understand the issue I just posted? If not, where do you get hung up?
<elliottcable>
Last I recall, you understood enough to read/understand everything I wrote there.
<purr\Paws>
[Issues] ELLIOTTCABLE comment on issue #6: (This is blocking work on `examples/**-coproduction.paws` and `examples/**-implement.assignment.paws`. Also, the direct consequence of those, which is beginning work on a cPaws “tutorial” / walkthrough.) https://github.com/Paws/Issues/issues/6#issuecomment-19070724
<elliottcable>
Woah, it does comments. Cool, GH!
<alexgordon>
errr, ALL of it?
<alexgordon>
"In the current design" <-- I understand up to there
<elliottcable>
Is there anything in particular you find confusing? Or is it all completely greek? In which case, I think we need to do a brief refresher on the generals.
<elliottcable>
I always have pretty, smart dogs. Shetlands.
<elliottcable>
changing that shit from red to a pretty robins'-egg blue.
<elliottcable>
gotta write some copy someday. I'll be terrible at it. I'm always terrible at writing any text relating to anything technical. Half the reason I suck at trying to document Paws.
<elliottcable>
It seems my talents for writing, and for programming, are *completely* mutually exclusive. Oil and water. As soon as I try to mix them, they both go to shit.
<joelteon>
if i got a dog i would get that dog
<elliottcable>
get a shetland. They're the kindest, most loyal, and smartest fucking animals.
<elliottcable>
anyway.
<elliottcable>
thanks for complimenting my dog. Now, Paws? >:
<joelteon>
i cant into sql
<elliottcable>
Nuck ⑊ you're mildly designer-y, at least, for a programmer.
<elliottcable>
experimenting with this as an alternative: http://ell.io/i7uym
gozala_ has quit []
gozala_ has joined #elliottcable
gozala_ is now known as gozala
<elliottcable>
gozala!
<gozala>
what's up ?
<gozala>
ELLIOTTCABLE: ^
<joelteon>
dude
<joelteon>
rainbow_parentheses is fucking cool
<elliottcable>
joelteon ⑊ oh?
<elliottcable>
might use it for gvim/mvim
<elliottcable>
Things'd.
<joelteon>
thingsdnsth
<elliottcable>
oh woah
<joelteon>
yeah it's neat
<elliottcable>
white on black is SEXY for this
<joelteon>
I don't use it all the time
<joelteon>
buuutt
<joelteon>
<leader>r
<elliottcable>
oh my GOD it is so SEXY
<elliottcable>
going to cream myself
* elliottcable
hurbleburblegurps
* elliottcable
attacks purr and hugsh im
<elliottcable>
PURR YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL
* purr
rrrr
<elliottcable>
PURR THIS PAGE IS BEAUTIFUL
<alexgordon>
back
<elliottcable>
alexgordon ⑊ omg
<elliottcable>
alexgordon ⑊ omgomg
<alexgordon>
omgomgomg
<joelteon>
ELLIOTTCABLE:
<joelteon>
isnt it cute though
<elliottcable>
joelteon ⑊ haven't used it yet
<elliottcable>
bzz
<elliottcable>
bzzy
<elliottcable>
lk bee
<elliottcable>
lk a bee
<elliottcable>
eeeee
<elliottcable>
i have turned into burr
<joelteon>
oh
<joelteon>
well
<joelteon>
well!
<joelteon>
ok
<elliottcable>
BUT
<elliottcable>
MY DESSIGHZN
<joelteon>
oh
<joelteon>
ok good
<joelteon>
did you name paws after your dog
<joelteon>
or after the action of pausing
<elliottcable>
neither.
<joelteon>
oh
<elliottcable>
I named Paws for:
<joelteon>
boy do i feel silly
<elliottcable>
1. short four-character word (for extension) that had never been used for anything programming-related before, for googlability
<elliottcable>
2. to make people go “... wat” before they even learned anything about the language
<elliottcable>
3. to make people go “that's cute and playful” before they even learned anything about the language
<elliottcable>
basically, 2 + 3 is a combination of feelings (‘WTF’ combined with ‘okay, that's cute’) that they're likely to be feeling throughout their learning of the language; so the name is intended to evoke those same feelings to “prepare” them to some extent.
<purr\Paws>
paws.github.io/header-refactor+ 668e114 elliottcable: + blue background
<elliottcable>
tell me what you think, guys
<elliottcable>
alexgordon ⑊ reload
<elliottcable>
fannkuch ⑊ you too
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: like!
<fannkuch>
ELLIOTTCABLE: by jove
<elliottcable>
fannkuch ⑊ huh?
<elliottcable>
I need to work on a copy blurb, and I definitely need help with that.
<elliottcable>
elliottcablespeak is bad enough amongst people who've known me three years ...
<elliottcable>
I realllllly need help writing / verifying a “random landing-page visitor”-compatible blurb.
<elliottcable>
I'm still thinking about what I want to write, at a high-level
<fannkuch>
ELLIOTTCABLE: it's alright I mean
<elliottcable>
but I'm considering a blurb casting Paws as a “high-level VM, a programming language that you can turn into your *own* programming language” and focusing on the hilights of concurrency/asynchronicity