ELLIOTTCABLE changed the topic of #elliottcable to: #ELLIOTTCABLE: Puppy paws patter placidly through the pale passageways ...
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<ellio>
guys I have a problem
<ellio>
I'm a really good programmer :D
<swart>
so you get asked to help fix people's PCs a lot?
<Nuck>
lel
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon^: seriously paws is more designed than you think
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon^: and less complicated than you think
<micahjohnston>
this channel has become so ridiculously repepetititititive
<ellio>
I just had The Best Idea™.
<ellio>
1. a *documentation*-coverage tool (breaks blocks-of-code down, and compares the length of functions' *documentation* blocks to the length of the function's code. Below some threshold, doesn't count it; then, tells you what percentage of your codebase's API is covered. Should be able to handle tagged-docs too.)
<ellio>
2. … that's git-aware. (i.e. can tell *how out-of-date* the coverage for a particular block of code is, by comparing the git-blame of that code-block, and that documentation-block. If there's two new commits to the code-block *since* the documentation-block was modified, then it can say it's <this> out-of-date.)
<ellio>
that way, it can give you (or better yet, *publish*, when you're using a C.I. tool like Travis) information about how “healthy” a project's documentation is.
<ellio>
catching stuff like undocumented, but public, methods or values … undocumented arguments to particular functions … and documentation that's gotten out-of-date or out-of-sync with changes to the code.
<swart>
be good to check if the docs were updated when code is changed
<ellio>
yep
<ellio>
better yet, tie this in with a docco-like tool,
<ellio>
and then you can generated HTML documentation / manpages from the source-code *that also tell you how out-of-date they are.*
<ellio>
Right there, in the HTML documentation for foo(), it tells you that there's a third, as-of-yet-undocumented argument to foo().
<swart>
_NSAKEY
<ellio>
or tells you that the documentation hasn't been updated to cover <3> commits; with that information being a link to a GitHub compare-view of that file.
<ellio>
dude. could be the BEST THING.
<ellio>
tell me I'm wrong!
<swart>
it's a great idea, but the trick is getting people to use it
<ellio>
meh
* ellio
shrugs
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<swart>
people hate writing docs
<gkatsev>
what if the doc doesn't need to be changed even if the implementation has changed?
<ellio>
not my problem
<ellio>
yes, but people also hated writing tests
<swart>
not my problem is a problem
<ellio>
and writing tests is *so* much more popular when you can make a little number go up every time you write them
<swart>
yes and *unit made it easy
<swart>
gamification of code docs
<swart>
next QA
<ellio>
… which raises its own issue of people paying more attention to coverage-numbers than the quality of their tests, yes.
<ellio>
but again, not my problem. If people will never write good tests, they'll never write good tests, and there's nothing I can do about that. But I can *help* those who *do* want to write good tests, but struggle with it, with a coverage-like tool.
<ellio>
And the same applies here:
<ellio>
I can *help* those who already desire to have quality documentation for their tools/code, if they're already wishing to try, but having a hard time keeping it updated.
<swart>
I hate writing docs, but I always find my code is never feels finished until I do
<ellio>
gkatsev: that's why you'd want it to show the *number* of changes.
<ellio>
gkatsev: not *every* change to a block of code, needs a change in that block of doc.
<ellio>
gkatsev: but if you've committed ten fucking changes to that block of code, and haven't updated the docs … then anybody can see that you have a problem.
<gkatsev>
not necessarily.
* ellio
shrugs
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<ellio>
again, the job here isn't to make judgements. Just to give you info.
<ellio>
same can be said of coverage, for instance.
<ellio>
such-and-such part could be *untestable*; or it could be reported as covered, when in fact it's not explicitly tested; or it could be tested, but the test could be shittily-written and convey nothing to readers.
<purr\Paws>
Paws.js/Master e204e8b elliottcable: (- meta) Moving `cake test` into a script ... sort of
<ellio>
micahjohnston: If you're around, I'm moving forward here.
<ellio>
got about thirty commits across three branches of un-pushed work, and I'm working up towards the point where I'm gonna have a massive octopus-merge of all these babies
<ellio>
Here's what I want: a shared API for things like test-runners, coverage-output, and aforementioned documentation-coverage-tool, to inject information into an outputting “documentation C.I. stream”
<alexgordon^>
ellio: git
<ellio>
so that something like docco can compile that all together, and have all of the information about your code *in one place*.
<ellio>
An HTML file with the source-code, coverage-status, documentation-for, GitHub-issues-with, test-results …
<ellio>
… etcetcetc
<ellio>
for each function/code-block-section-whatever,
<ellio>
in one place.
<ellio>
here's what I'm thinking: a standardized format, like lcov, but without any actual *content* (coverage-data). All the generator would do is *break the code down into blocks*.
<ellio>
Whether that's breaking C files up into functions, or Ruby into classes-and-then-methods (sub-“blocks” be a thing.)
<ellio>
Restrict it to being line-wise. That's good enough, and has worked for most of the popular coverage-tools and documentation-tools out there, so …
<ellio>
then, the output from that, can be piped *into* various tools that generate or analyze metadata about code.
<ellio>
The tools would then be responsible for breaking *whatever output they may have*, up line-wise using the sections they are given.
<ellio>
And then they can individually spit-out whatever format output they want, back into that original standardized format, but now *with content*. (HTML documentation, HTML coverage-data. ANSI-escapped, prettified command-line output of test-results, the same for test-coverage. Whatever.)
<ellio>
finally, a C.I. system, or something like docco, or a test-harness being called by something like `cake` from the command-line,
<ellio>
can munge all that data back up together, *by block*.
<ellio>
So, for each block of code, you see *together*, the test results, the coverage-information for those tests, mutation resistance for those tests … you get the idea.
<ellio>
This is a framework that *any meta-software-development tooling system* could share, as long as <whatever it does> can somehow logically be broken down linewise, could be tied into.
<ellio>
'k. Done. Sorry.
* ellio
goes back to what he was doing
<swart>
almost finished chp 1 of that calculus book
<swart>
it's not about calculus btw :)
<swart>
it's just a problem domain to teach you J
<ellio>
Oh?
<swart>
the J concepts are much more mind-bending than any calculus :)
<ellio>
oh sn
<joelteon>
parsing PHP's variable names is just fucking terrible
<swart>
keep hitting a spelling error with this expression PS=:1 : (':'; '(u. x.) p. y.')
<joelteon>
of course
<joelteon>
variable variables
<joelteon>
are very stupid
<ellio>
fuckin' GitHub for Mac
<ellio>
ಠ_ಠ
<joelteon>
mithub for gac
* ellio
slaps joelteon
<joelteon>
I like it
<joelteon>
I'm not a github "power user"
<joelteon>
git*
<joelteon>
power user
<alexgordon^>
joelteon: ${"WHAT'S WRONG WITH VARIABLE VARIABLES?"}
<joelteon>
ok I'm not a github power user either
<joelteon>
yeah, so, you can have variable variables with any name, can't yoU?
<joelteon>
but you can only have literal variable names that start with a-z_ and are alphanumeric
<purr>
<Nuck> Imagine if all porn everywhere just had dolphins over the tits
<joelteon>
<alexgordon^>
* alexgordon^
googles "dolphin tits"
<alexgordon^>
I may regret this
<swart>
ELLIOTTCABLE: that's weird. my FB status from 10 hours ago: Hey I just found this, and this is crazy, but here's an introduction to Calculus and a programming language called J
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon^: i think a higher percentage of tv is shit
<alexgordon^>
fortunately, it's only the good stuff that counts
<micahjohnston>
""This comic started as an attempt to make pornography. It degenerated into sex comedy pretty much immediately. Even so, there are some things depicted that are best kept away from children and work. Please click on the button below to certify you're over 18. Of course, if you are under 18, you can't legally certify anything. So if you're a minor, please get
<micahjohnston>
a parent to click the button which says you aren't. Thank you."
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
that's a good point
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon^: well yeah
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lolololollololol
<purr>
lolololollololol
<alexgordon^>
I mean, TV is better in that respect because if something is shit you are not obliged to watch the rest of it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you know what I like?
<alexgordon^>
which I would argue, is the reason it is winning
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
fucking candy.
<alexgordon^>
capitalism, baby
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
taking candy-bars,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and stuffing them up my anus.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I've got a Three Musketeers halfway up there right now.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It's *amazing*.
<alexgordon^>
micahjohnston: when's your 18th birthday?
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon^: the 27th
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
micahjohnston ⑊ I'm about to push a bunch of changes; I'm going to be sleeping soon
<alexgordon^>
micahjohnston: it'll be great when you can click the button which says you are
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
micahjohnston ⑊ and more importantly, shit happened with Chelsea, so I'm going to Chicago on a midnight flight
<alexgordon^>
micahjohnston: I mean, you wouldn't lie to an internet website, would you?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
micahjohnston ⑊ so, Paws Week ain't happening on my side /=
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
micahjohnston ⑊ BUT.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
micahjohnston ⑊ I'd be super-excited if you came up with an *innovative* way to serialize diagonal execution while I'm gone.
<alexgordon^>
ELLIOTTCABLE: is this shit, good shit or bad shit? equivalently, does Chelsea live in Chicago?
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon^: oh no definitely not
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
The biggest problem at the moment is syntax. I don't see a way to do it that's not going to end with worse-even-than-Node.js “indentation towers”
<alexgordon^>
micahjohnston: The age of consent in Utah is 18. However, it is legal for minors aged 16 and 17 to engage in sexual activity with partners less than 10 years older.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
would need to either be hard-tab-based, or have a fixed number of spaces across the *entire* codebase
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
also, very susceptible to towers-of-indentation
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
also, limited to two dependants
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
meh.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
anyway. brainstorm on it while I'm gone.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
maybe sketch out a parser and attach it to µPaws.js
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
not because you necessarily want notDiagonal to have Paws semantics,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but because I'm sure you want *similar* semantics, and it's already there to work with.
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<micahjohnston>
metasyntactic variable is such a silly name
<joelteon>
I agree
<joelteon>
a better name is variable variable
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what! no.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I love it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It's an excellent name.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It's always made me so happy that phrases like that exist, and have meaning, in English.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I get all -squirrel!-y inside when I think about it
<joelteon>
ok mr. my design depends on my implementation
<micahjohnston>
it's such a dumb name
<micahjohnston>
like
<micahjohnston>
there are cool words in english
<micahjohnston>
that have complex meanings told through prefixes and suffixes
<micahjohnston>
but metasyntactic variable is not only
<micahjohnston>
overblown
<micahjohnston>
and unnecessary
<micahjohnston>
but also
<micahjohnston>
doesn't use meta or syntactic in the usual way
<micahjohnston>
basically it's awful and you should feel very bad
<joelteon>
yeah, that's why it makes no sense
<joelteon>
the name "foo" is not related to syntax
<joelteon>
at the most it should be called a metavariable
<micahjohnston>
but the thing is
<micahjohnston>
it's not even a metavariable
<micahjohnston>
like for instance if you have like
<micahjohnston>
A asdf B
<micahjohnston>
where A and B can be { }
<micahjohnston>
yknow
<micahjohnston>
that could plausibly be metasyntactic or something
<joelteon>
oh
<joelteon>
but foo isn't that
<joelteon>
nobody does that
<micahjohnston>
yeah
<micahjohnston>
well like
<micahjohnston>
logicians and language designers do
<micahjohnston>
sometimes
<micahjohnston>
lol
<purr>
lol
<micahjohnston>
yknow
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
joelteon ⑊ Sorry, did I hear you say something?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
joelteon ⑊ go design a programming language, and then come back and talk.
* ELLIOTTCABLE
glares
<joelteon>
i've done that a couple times
<joelteon>
they never saw the light of day though
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Any design that *doesn't* depend on implementation, is an unimportant design *by definition*.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“I'm going to design a car that flies through the air with unicorn-waves!”
<joelteon>
define important
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
That's nice. Come back and talk to me when you make one that works in the constraints of the real world.
<joelteon>
I don't think a primary limitation for programming languages is gravity
<joelteon>
that doesn't make sense
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
If you don't sit down, and test the ideas you have, and modify the design based on the results of those tests, you're *bad at what you do.*
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Design in a vaccuum is meaningless.
<gkatsev>
joyent also runs solaris so you could have full dtrace capabilities, if you need them
<gkatsev>
though, perhaps that what the "smartos" is
<joelteon>
this is just a thing that I'm gonna run my mail server on and a bot
<joelteon>
and ZNC
<joelteon>
joyent is also $12/month ok
<joelteon>
i'd prefer prgmr in that case
<joelteon>
and it scales down to less than 2x buyvm's price after a year
<joelteon>
guess that'll keep saving me money
<joelteon>
centos or arch for a server?
<gkatsev>
arch or debian/ubuntu
<joelteon>
centos it is
<gkatsev>
lol
<purr>
lol
<purr>
<prophile> I wish nigger was more socially acceptable because it's a great onomatopoeia for the sound of a helicopter. niggerniggerniggerniggerniggerniggernigger
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<remyvaillancour>
bored.
<remyvaillancour>
who's awake?
<remyvaillancour>
lock?
<remyvaillancour>
*nope, guess not
<remyvaillancour>
god whatever
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<prophile>
isn't she banned?
<joelteon>
is that gabrielle
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<whitequark>
likely
<joelteon>
i guess it would be
<joelteon>
based on her username
<landocalrissian>
huh?
<prophile>
-!- remyvaillancour [~gqberilir@2001:0:4137:9e76:4c3:288c:b822:3fc8] has joined #elliottcable
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<prophile>
IPv6 though
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<prophile>
I approve
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<landocalrissian>
that's me, prophile
<landocalrissian>
can you help me?
<landocalrissian>
i've had my account hacked into again
<landocalrissian>
hacked/cracked
<landocalrissian>
:(
<prophile>
oic
<landocalrissian>
how about you, jolteon?
<prophile>
have you tried XML?
<landocalrissian>
*joelteon. clever nick!
<landocalrissian>
er. xml the client?
<landocalrissian>
i have access to a variety of clients
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<landocalrissian>
the client isn't the problem. but no, i have not tried that.
<landocalrissian>
the client isn't the problem. but no, i have not tried that.
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<landocalrissian>
hi _whitelogger! gosh it's been a long time!
<landocalrissian>
hi _whitelogger! gosh it's been a long time!
<landocalrissian>
hi _whitelogger! gosh it's been a long time!
<landocalrissian>
hi
<landocalrissian>
hi
<landocalrissian>
hi
<purr>
landocalrissian: hi!
<purr>
landocalrissian: hi!
<purr>
landocalrissian: hi!
<whitequark>
shit
<whitequark>
shit
<whitequark>
shit
<landocalrissian>
OH MYG OD HOW MANY OF U ARE TEHERE
<landocalrissian>
OH MYG OD HOW MANY OF U ARE TEHERE
<landocalrissian>
OH MYG OD HOW MANY OF U ARE TEHERE
* landocalrissian
freaks out
* landocalrissian
freaks out
* landocalrissian
freaks out
<landocalrissian>
lol
<landocalrissian>
lol
<landocalrissian>
lol
<purr>
lol
<purr>
lol
<purr>
lol
* landocalrissian
pets purr
* landocalrissian
pets purr
* landocalrissian
pets purr
* purr
rrr
* purr
rrr
* purr
rrr
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<landocalrissian>
i missed u too purr
<landocalrissian>
i missed u too purr
<landocalrissian>
i missed u too purr
<landocalrissian>
i missed u too purr
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<landocalrissian>
OH MY GOD
<landocalrissian>
lol
<landocalrissian>
whitequark: are u always this incompetent
<landocalrissian>
or is someone havin a giggle at ur exepsne m8
landocalrissian is now known as unreggednick
<whitequark>
unreggednick: how do i phrase it
<whitequark>
go fuck yourself?..
<whitequark>
no, that's not it
<unreggednick>
cunts
<unreggednick>
freenode is staffed by cunts
<unreggednick>
i'm so sick of it here
<unreggednick>
is there any staff here? fuck you all
<unreggednick>
your network sucks and so do you.
unreggednick is now known as Aarakul
<Aarakul>
signed, your friendly neighborhood ringwraith.
<Aarakul>
how do i phrase this, whitequark? name yourself after a creationist, becuase you are DUMB
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<B4Bitchdetta>
i'm done. never using freenode for my own purposes again.
<B4Bitchdetta>
if they want my traffic, they can apologise on bended knee.
<B4Bitchdetta>
god, it's like playing legos in 1st grade all over again.
<B4Bitchdetta>
hello folks. how's tricks?
<B4Bitchdetta>
yes, it's me
<B4Bitchdetta>
christ
<B4Bitchdetta>
it's like talking to a wall made out of elliott flavored legos
<B4Bitchdetta>
YES ELLIOTT, I SAID YOUR NAME. IT'S A HILIGHT, BITCH.
<B4Bitchdetta>
purr: say something
<B4Bitchdetta>
sigh
<B4Bitchdetta>
!what
<B4Bitchdetta>
!what
<B4Bitchdetta>
god this is awfull
<B4Bitchdetta>
purr: who coded you? a bunch of frogs on typewriters?
<B4Bitchdetta>
bye folks
<B4Bitchdetta>
back later, if i feel nice
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<derpydash>
anyone know any channels on this fucking place that AREN'T staffed by idiots?
<whitequark>
btw
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: whitelogger now works on #Paws.Nucleus
<whitequark>
though, I really ought to add color highlighting
<joelteon>
the fuck is wrong with her
<derpydash>
you mean me?
<derpydash>
TALK TO ME, YOU FUCKING MORON
<derpydash>
YOU DON'T TELL THE LADY EC DEIGNED TO DATE A FUCK
<derpydash>
OR A STUPID
<derpydash>
OR ANY OTHER NAME
<derpydash>
purr: kill
<whitequark>
joelteon: elliott dumped her
<derpydash>
purr: I SAID KILL JOELTEON
<derpydash>
uh, no
<whitequark>
several years ago
<derpydash>
i dumped his sutpid ass
<derpydash>
what does he clal me these days?
<whitequark>
and now she's mad as fuck
<derpydash>
ummmm
<derpydash>
erika?
<derpydash>
erika
<derpydash>
FUCK YOU
<derpydash>
I'M A MARRIED DERPY
<derpydash>
I WOULDN'T HAVE HIM IF I FOUND HIM DEAD ON THE STREET
<derpydash>
D:
<derpydash>
whitequark: lies, all lies. U MAD?
<derpydash>
Nuck: WAKE UP, BUDDY
* derpydash
falls over
<Nuck>
derpydash: Who dafuq are you
<derpydash>
jeannicolas: tell...ec...i never loved him...
<derpydash>
Nuck: I'M GQ YOU TURD
<derpydash>
christ
<derpydash>
it's like talking to a wall made of derp
<alexgordon>
also, is there such a thing as unattractive russian girls?
<whitequark>
so fucking absurd
<whitequark>
mm
<whitequark>
when you're 18 anything with a hole is an attractive girl
<alexgordon>
I'm not 18, you may be confusing me with micahjohnston
<whitequark>
wasn't referring to you
<alexgordon>
THEN WHO
<whitequark>
no one in particular
<alexgordon>
my point stands
<whitequark>
well, *shrugs* maybe me? when I want to fuck everything's attractive. when I don't, I don't judge people by their appearance because why the fuck
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<alexgordon>
wait you're 18?
<whitequark>
no
<whitequark>
but I was 18 at some point in my life
<alexgordon>
so was everybody. except micahjohnston
<whitequark>
I think I'm 20
<alexgordon>
we really must work out the average age of this channel
<whitequark>
that changes everything for sure
<whitequark>
yes. should be 20
<alexgordon>
Russia: where you drink so much you forget how old you are
<whitequark>
i don't drink
<whitequark>
i only ever drank alcohol once in my life. wasn't impressed, didn't repeat
<alexgordon>
haha
<whitequark>
neither did drugs. too lazy to obtain.
<alexgordon>
you should meet ELLIOTTCABLE
<alexgordon>
didn't drink, then installed a bar in his house
<whitequark>
plus, i have more fun things to do
<whitequark>
like writing compilers at 5am
<whitequark>
or explaining lambda-calculus to a girl at 5am
* alexgordon
predicts that would go badly
<whitequark>
how so?
<alexgordon>
Russia: where the girls drink so much they let you explain lambda calculus to them
<whitequark>
she doesn't drink with me, and not much at all. I think she's tired of it already
<whitequark>
(which is in line with your joke so that's a bit funny)
<whitequark>
though
<whitequark>
I believe I got to church's numerals, checked that she actually understands the material, and fell asleep
<whitequark>
something along these lines
<alexgordon>
lol.
<purr>
lol
<whitequark>
what's so funny about it?
<alexgordon>
it just IS funny
* whitequark
rolls his eyes
<whitequark>
lemme guess: "anything you should do with girl at 5am is to have sex with her", right?
<whitequark>
it's boring. you are boring, all of you who have responded with such statements innumerous times throughout my life
<whitequark>
plus, it's too much physical work and waaay not enough biochemical reward to be worth it
<whitequark>
whereas, explaining things is.
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<whitequark>
I'm probably weird.
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<joelteon>
you sound like a sociopath
<joelteon>
or possibly just asexual
<joelteon>
i can see how that joke would be entirely unrelatable
<joelteon>
or
<joelteon>
you might just be repressing something
<alexgordon>
whitequark: man, explaining lambda calculus to a girl is bad at ANY time of day
<alexgordon>
but if you can pull it off, more power to you
<joelteon>
i realize what i said sounds insensitive
<whitequark>
alexgordon: i don't really talk a lot to dumb girls ;)
<alexgordon>
A man walks into a bar. He says to a girl: "λf.(λx.f (x x)) (λx.f (x x))". The girl buys him a drink.
<whitequark>
and a person who can do university-level math would have no problems with lambda calculus
<whitequark>
granted, you are able to motivate them somehow
<whitequark>
joelteon: sociopath? maybe, the definition is rather wide. asexual? definitely no
<alexgordon>
the only sociopath here is ELLIOTTCABLE
<joelteon>
no way
<joelteon>
he feels emotions
<alexgordon>
just not the RIGHT emotions
<whitequark>
gqbrielle?
<whitequark>
besides
<alexgordon>
haha well if not feeling emotions is the definition of a sociopath... gqbrielle doesn't qualify either
<whitequark>
isn't one of defining qualities of a sociopath an ability to imitate emotions well?
<joelteon>
yeah
<joelteon>
he's not doing it so well
<whitequark>
so well you could trick people who surround you
<alexgordon>
probably jeannicolas then
<alexgordon>
he's the most normal person I've ever met
<gkatsev>
psychopaths are the ones with no emotion or something.
<alexgordon>
on irc
<alexgordon>
everybody in this channel is very slightly crazy, except for jeannicolas
<joelteon>
yeah
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<whitequark>
ugh
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<whitequark>
twitter asks if I want to follow: "God", "Jesus Christ" and another totally irrelevant dude
<whitequark>
I wonder what's up with it, or, more worryingly
<whitequark>
what's up with my recent following patterns
<alexgordon>
lol there's an @allah, tweets in arabic and accepts bitcoins
<purr>
lol
<purr>
<micahjohnston> what was that one webcomic with lots of dicks in it