11:06 <jrc> Actually /part

11:07 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm?

15:21 <DocScrutinizer05> Oksana: indeed

15:55 <DocScrutinizer05> YAY, new design on https://devuan.org/

15:55 <DocScrutinizer05> waaaay better than before

17:39 <DocScrutinizer51> btw I had a funny effect on N900 with BT headset (with media buttons): pressing play/pause on BT caused mediaplayer to startup and play playlist. I stopped that by pressing playpause again. Then I did a phonecall and switched off the BT headset. Later on a call came in and eventually stopped ringing. At this point the media player got unpaused :)

17:42 <DocScrutinizer51> sort of bug: ringtone stop shouldn't unpause MP when it didn't pause it at starting ringtone

17:43 <MonkeyofDoom> I've got a funny race condition with n900 audio right now, if it detects headphone unplug it switches to speaker volume, but if you un/replug at the right timing it will set the headphone volume to the speaker one

17:43 <MonkeyofDoom> silly maemo

17:45 <DocScrutinizer51> no idea who handles this, if it's mediaplayer itself listening to ringtone/call-stop dbus signals. Or if alsaped or whatever has control of this and sends a pause/unpause dbus msg to MP resp mafw

17:55 <DocScrutinizer05> MonkeyofDoom: that's indeed really silly, or rather a funny sneaky race condition

17:58 <DocScrutinizer05> I *guess* it's like 4 dbus msgs, 2 for unplug like switch-to-speaker-vol, set-audio-vol(speakers), and 2 for headset plug like switch-to-hs-vol, set-audio-vol(headset). When we call those A, B, C, D, then I guess you managed the two to interleave in a A, C, D, B sequence

18:00 <DocScrutinizer05> miswsing "spinlock" in alsaped or whatever it is that handles those prolog(?) scenarios

18:42 <Pali> libplayback doing mediaplayer mute

18:43 <Pali> mediaplayer does not stop/pause/play when voice call start/stop

18:43 <Pali> so alsaped/ohm/libplayback/ or other stuff...

18:43 <Pali> maybe prolog too :D

23:06 <Kilroo> I wonder if there's someone I can hire to shake an admonishing finger at the parties responsible if it turns out that I really am unable to validate my shop account because of the + in the email address.

23:10 <Oksana> Workaround: use a different email address.

23:10 <Kilroo> That doesn't satisfy my desire to have an admonishing finger shaken at anyone who perpetrates such a thing, though.

23:11 <Kilroo> 'Course that actually bothers me less than a maximum length limit on a password.

23:11 <Oksana> Long-term solution: fix the module which rot13-s the email address

23:11 <Oksana> What's the length limit? I have a 42-character-long password, but I do not remember where I actually use it...

23:11 <Kilroo> 32

23:12 <Oksana> Hmm... That's better than 8 with my bank.

23:13 <Oksana> Actually, 8 character length limit for password is only for prepaid card, not for main card, but still annoying. Especially when the only way to restore access after 3 fails is to phone-call them.

23:13 <Kilroo> What bothers me is how many bank websites have not only a length limit, but a restriction to alphanumeric characters.

23:14 <Oksana> Yes, same here. Cannot even use a '@'

23:15 <Oksana> Actually, I am wondering why PIN for cards is still restricted to four numeric characters. Awfully easy to remember, if somebody happens to look over your shoulder.

23:15 <DocScrutinizer51> appreciate that the limitation to 5 numeric chars is atually a lie

23:15 <Kilroo> Don't know what sort of PIN you mean, but I know my ATM card allows at least 6 nowadays.

23:16 <DocScrutinizer51> bank PIN

23:18 <DocScrutinizer51> and though they suggest to use at least 5 digits for new PIN, the web interface also accepts ascii chars

23:23 <Oksana> Hmm... ATMs have digit-only keypads, right? But thanks for info on longer PINs... Will check it with my bank.

23:24 <DocScrutinizer51> online banking. dunno CC pin. never tried changing it

23:24 <DocScrutinizer51> it's 4 digits

23:25 <Oksana> Online bank password is alphanumeric, and it's more than 6 characters in mine.

23:26 <DocScrutinizer51> Personal Identification NUMBER, TransAction NUMBER (6 digits)

23:27 <x29a> Oksana: maybe ATM terminals support T9

23:27 <Oksana> ISO 9564-1, the international standard for PIN management and security in retail banking, allows for PINs from four up to twelve digits, but also notes that "For usability reasons, an assigned numeric PIN should not exceed six digits in length." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identification_number#PIN_length

23:29 <R0b0t1> Kilroo: If it kept you from getting something you ordered after your account was debited, you could threaten to sue them

23:29 <R0b0t1> also - when will the down payment window close?

23:30 <R0b0t1> lol wait

23:30 <R0b0t1> nvm

23:30 <Kilroo> Every so often I think I should do something like start making sure ␇ is in all my passwords

23:30 <dos1> Kilroo: could you use https://my.neo900.org/index.php?fc=module&module=mackstorescustomerreg&controller=resendvalc and try again?

23:31 <R0b0t1> what is 0x2407?

23:31 <Oksana> On the topic of PINs... Remembering 16-digit card number in my head, all the time, (to be able to use it for an online payment without taking the card out of my bag-pocket) is a pain (but worth it).

23:31 <Kilroo> Bell.

23:32 <R0b0t1> ohhoho

23:41 <Kilroo> You know, enhanced dropdowns aren't exactly something I dislike in general, but when I can't change their values with the up and down arrow keys while they are collapsed, it annoys me...

23:43 <R0b0t1> mmmm bad UX design

23:43 <R0b0t1> delicious

23:43 <Kilroo> Man, I'm looking forward to Vivaldi getting better.

23:44 <Kilroo> Opera 12 is getting pretty unmanagable. I might end up picking a different email client again and switching back to Firefox.

23:45 <Oksana> Or Seamonkey?

23:46 <Oksana> It includes a email client ;-)

23:46 <Kilroo> It does, but to me the advantage of it being a suite is mostly due to the email interface being Just Another Tab (and sidebar).

23:52 <Kilroo> From which perspective, either the Simplemail plugin or a multi-account webmail client (whether by hosting my own local aggregating server of some sort of by having gmail--or some other webmail provider with the same functionality but an interface I like better) would suit me better than Seamonkey; once it's a separate window, either the mail functionality or the browser functionality would have to be my favorite option for it not to make more sense to run sep

23:52 <Kilroo> Anyhow, tangent. Shupping now.