<DocScrutinizer05>
almost 50% of planned preorders. But then there are only another 2 weeks til end of month, and we hoped to start N900 sourcing next month
<Wizzup_>
perhaps time to submit it to some major news sites
<Wizzup_>
or is the new box required for that?
<DocScrutinizer05>
ask dos1 :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd think we managed the last one, we will dodge the next one too. but...
<Wizzup_>
as in, you could write some news/blog post, and submit that to the news sites (where you explain the aim of the project, and for what people it probably isn't a good fit)
<Wizzup_>
that's better than just a link to the shop or main website methinks
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually our fronpage could at least use a minor update to have the shop opening more prominently, instead of OHSW talk
<dos1>
DocScrutinizer05: I have credentials and it worked earlier. I guess update broke something.
<useretail>
DocScrutinizer05: (IMEI declaration) that's not good
<Oksana>
"Council election rules can be changed by GA resolution, not only PM referendum" -> At first, I offered to have 3 options in referendum (instead of 2), so that people voting in referendum would specify whether they want GA to be able to change council election rules.
<useretail>
but hey, nobody knows if gemalto's baseband are exploitable or not ;)
<Oksana>
Currently, the referendum is 2-option, and it is specified that any changed GA makes to council election rules, have to be approved by PM referendum; if PM say no, GA has to re-think the changes it wanted to make to council election rules, and re-submit them to PM referendum (or just forget about making changes)
<DocScrutinizer05>
useretail: why not good? Changing IMEI is nonsense anyway
<DocScrutinizer05>
the only valid usecase for changing IMEI is for stolen phones, or for fraud and eavesdropping/DoS in some terribly crappy networks
<useretail>
well, i have my own reasons. one of them is that imei makes your phone trackable
<DocScrutinizer05>
no
<useretail>
yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
it doesn't need IMEI to track your phone. So no it's not IMEI that makes your phone trackable
<DocScrutinizer05>
and changing IMEI doesn't help to stop tracking your phone
<useretail>
true, if don't change sim card :D
<DocScrutinizer05>
au contraire. Changing your IMEI makes it yell all alarms in their databases and routers and whatnot
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<useretail>
i don't know about your country, but here you can set imei to zeroes and be happy
<DocScrutinizer05>
LOL, definitely happy like a fool
<useretail>
and believe me or not i'm not the only one who uses that imei
<DocScrutinizer05>
"Hey look, 32555612345098 has just set his IMEI to all zeroes"
<useretail>
technically that doesn't mean that you changed imei. maybe you changed the phone to one that have zeroed imei
<useretail>
who knows
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess there must be at least 4 other criteria that still allow linking of old to new (all zeroes) IMEI
<useretail>
gsm is full of vulnerabilities
<DocScrutinizer05>
and one of them 4 at least is clearly attached to phone
<DocScrutinizer05>
you would also need to change your firmware and your calibration, and ideally your location while not using phone. And of course your SIM same time. And all the numbers you call
<DocScrutinizer05>
then change all your apps, and your social media accounts
<DocScrutinizer05>
and your usage patterns
<DocScrutinizer05>
incl where you move when
<DocScrutinizer05>
I.E. don't dare to conitue commuting to work with that new clean phone, unless you move to a new flat and a new job same time you set IMEI to 0
<useretail>
well, yeah. but nobody uses such techniques in real world (well, at least here)
<DocScrutinizer05>
don't visit same web pages, don't google for same things
<DocScrutinizer05>
HAHAHA
<useretail>
u forgot tor :D
<DocScrutinizer05>
those you want to fool by changing your IMEI do, since decades
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah great! use tor, that's a *very* common practice, you will vanish in the masses who do same
<DocScrutinizer05>
"Hey look, the guy who yesterday changed his IMEI to 000000 now traveled to a new location 280 miles away and uses tor again. He's probably not aware that he's one of only 5, and the other 4 tor users didn't change their IMEI"
<MonkeyofDoom>
plus your old usage pattern ending gives a good heuristic for guessing who might be this "new" usage pattern on the scene
<MonkeyofDoom>
even if you do mange to decorrelate everything else
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's what I said above, yes
<MonkeyofDoom>
I mean more "we never see Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde in the same place at once..."
<MonkeyofDoom>
but yeah
<DocScrutinizer05>
call 3 numbers you called before -> BINGO
<DocScrutinizer05>
and of course when your true IMEI vanishes same place and time a new 000000000 IMEI appears... ;-P
<useretail>
like i said there's a lot of cellphones that have 0000000's or 11111111's instead of real imei
<DocScrutinizer05>
irrelevant
<DocScrutinizer05>
unless your do a mass IMEI change session where 2000 do it in same palce at asame time
<DocScrutinizer05>
and even then, your firmware has a fingerprint. See nmap OS-guess for how this works
<DocScrutinizer05>
and in your case, not only firmware but also linux userland has a very unique fingerprint
<DocScrutinizer05>
that shouts "Maemo" or "Debian" or "Gentoo" or whatever
<useretail>
but these can be faked too
<useretail>
so
<DocScrutinizer05>
and when you manage to obfuscate the firmware and OS fingerprint, then there's allegedly still hardware / calibration fingerprint
<DocScrutinizer05>
and given the ultra-easy usage pattern matching, it's questionable what for you want to use such a 000000ed phone anyway, since you can't do *any* of the things you used to do with it before
<DocScrutinizer05>
and if you only fail on a single one of them, your zeroed IMEI plus original one and IMSI/SIM-numner shines up un bold red 38pt font on their lists
<DocScrutinizer05>
then you really have reason to be happy, you made it to top 100 of their suspicious subjects list
<useretail>
i don't think these are registering somewhere, or someone is collecting such info
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<DocScrutinizer05>
then why the heck do you bother about changing IMEI?
<DocScrutinizer05>
(regardless of the fact that they really do, and did for 10 years already)
<DocScrutinizer05>
most networks even reject completely bogus IMEIs
<useretail>
bacause it's nice option to have ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
those who don't do so for a reason: it's better to have them fools under supervision than blocking them
<useretail>
who told you that you can't generate valid one?
<DocScrutinizer05>
it makes their job way easier when you *think* you outsmarted them by doing a silly IMEI change
<DocScrutinizer05>
generate a valid one and see it getting blocked when it's active twice in same betwork
<DocScrutinizer05>
and anyway, you can't change IMEI on contemporary phone chips anymore
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's a 3GPP requirement that chips resp phones need to comply with to get approval
<useretail>
unless you exploit them
<useretail>
;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeahm do whatever you want. I warned you that it's nonsense
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's as effective as having plastic film covering your car's number plates, to spoil the radar's photo. Doesn't work and shouts "bust me, i'm a fool who tries to mess with authorities"
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<DocScrutinizer05>
MonkeyofDoom: correlation in time is already sufficient, when one entity ends where a new one starts
<DocScrutinizer05>
you could even guess that the next (km-distance x days-distance) new one is probably the vanishing old one
<DocScrutinizer05>
even when that's 50km and 3 days away, it's likely a valid relation if no "closer" entity showed up
<DocScrutinizer05>
then call any number you ever before called from that old identity, and... BINGO
<DocScrutinizer05>
and of course they store those metadata like "who calls whom when from/to where?" - they always did, since they retired the relays and got electronic exchange
<useretail>
ok, let's suppose you're an govt officer. you know my imei, my location and can see all the communication data. and what you want to know/hear is my next call (i can call anyone, incl the numbers that i never dialled). so how are you going to do that, since i changed my location, my sim, and imei? keep in mind that you're doing your job remotely and don't have direct access to bts.
<useretail>
in real life, you'll never know
<useretail>
in theory everything is possible
<DocScrutinizer05>
huh? nobody does his job 2remotely2 nowadays. All BTS have standardized surveillance interfaces
<DocScrutinizer05>
invented in Germany and sold to half of the globe
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<DocScrutinizer05>
and they got your new call on the records, just like the do have all your old ones. They simply do some datamining and voila
<DocScrutinizer05>
not in realtime of course
<DocScrutinizer05>
will take a few minutes or even hours till they know whom you called with your new smart 0000000 IMEI
<useretail>
keep in mind that i'm not the only one whos uses 0000's
<useretail>
in country where i from, carriers only began implementing 3g this year
<useretail>
so yeah
<DocScrutinizer05>
unless you switch off the phone at evening before, then flash to 00000 next morning, travel 50km to do a single phonecall, travel back home, flash your old IMEI again and then switch on the phone with old IMEI
<DocScrutinizer05>
you might be one of 30% using the same IMEI. They simply can track the other 5 millions and you're the only NEW 000000 IMEI that appeared
<DocScrutinizer05>
honestly, it's silly. and I'm busy