<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe those funny guys at Gemalto could at least have a publication date on their press-release pamphlets, and a RSS or email notification when a new version gets published???
<DocScrutinizer05>
thanks to Nikolaus for spotting this "minor detail"
* DocScrutinizer05
sighs again
<wpwrak>
yes, rather subtle
<DocScrutinizer05>
pdf-diff, where are you?
<wpwrak>
that's the sort of things you get if all the documentation if full of secrecy
<DocScrutinizer05>
sucks
<DocScrutinizer05>
on a nice sidenote: we have a prospect who wants to preorder a 50 devices :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
so, a completely normal day in Neo900 project ;-)
<bencoh>
what is he gonna do with all this ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess they want to use them :-)
<bencoh>
:]
<DocScrutinizer05>
now, just in case: will we make _all_ Neo900 (spacerframes) a 0.8mm thicker, or will we produce a special LTE version of spacerframe?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess having two versions that differ a 0.8mm and to have different inter-sandwich-conns and all that isn't worth it
<DocScrutinizer05>
so in case it turms out the LTE is actually 2.9 mm, the UMTS versions will suffer from a "useless" 0.8mm increase in device height
<DocScrutinizer05>
as if the thing wasn't massive enough already ;-) We could consider adding a 0.8mm steel sheet to the UMTS version and dell it as "ultra-heavy-duty"
<DocScrutinizer05>
sell*
<DocScrutinizer05>
time for coffee
<bencoh>
being able to hit people with one's phone isnt a bug, it's a feature!
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<DocScrutinizer05>
0.8mm is not THAT much now
<DocScrutinizer05>
a 0.8mm steel sheet though is quite a thing when it comes to ruggedness
<wpwrak>
hmm, 3.7% thicker. it's not THAT much, indeed. but still.
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, at least it creates convenient headroom to have the slot for 2nd SIM ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
see, Gemalto engineers think ahead
<bencoh>
*meh*
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<DocScrutinizer05>
and think of the *capacitors* we can cram into that new empty volume ;-D
* wpwrak
wants a 70 Ah 12 V lead-acid battery there
<DocScrutinizer05>
great minds think alike - I already wondered if a 0.8mm thick LiPo battery exists
<bencoh>
wonderful, now you can hit people *and* blow it to their face
<Kero>
The iPaq had a nice flat battery, though I doubt it was *that* thin.
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<Oksana>
(on a nice sidenote: we have a prospect who wants to preorder a 50 devices) Great! (being able to hit people with one's phone isnt a bug, it's a feature!) Agree! But, it will make it more painful for me to hit my phone with my palm when software is getting slow ;-) Albeit, freshly installed from scratch Maemo 5 would be really fast. Great, will this 0.8mm thickness be a slot for storing bank card?
<DocScrutinizer05>
hey, you're giving me ideas
<DocScrutinizer05>
could indeed accommodate a fullsize smartcard
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmmmmmm
<DocScrutinizer05>
on UMTS devices you could insert it completely. On LTE devices we rotate the contacts 180 degrees and you insert chip first instead chip last, and card will block when insrted a maybe 2cm
<Oksana>
Okay, do UMTS devices have some space for an electronic card-reader chip? /Who would want it, not sure... For Foxtel-television card, or for bank card - the content is still bound to be encrypted to the skies, right?/
<DocScrutinizer05>
the "electronic card reader chip" is already implemented in current design: it's the connection from CPU to auxiliary "SIM"
<Oksana>
Because the chips in financial cards are the same as those used in subscriber identity modules (SIMs) in mobile phones, programmed differently and embedded in a different piece of PVC... So it would not need a separate chip, just a set of contacts to read the card as if it was a third SIM?
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually from NFC MCU to 2nd SIM
<DocScrutinizer05>
if I'd really consider this fullsize smartcard stunt, it would replace the mini-SIM slot
<Wizzup>
how will this fit at all?
<Oksana>
Multiplexer would allow modem to connect to first SIM or second SIM, but it doesn't matter for "third SIM", unless we are using full-size SIM (which nobody does)
<Oksana>
Okay, so you are considering it as "full-size SIM" instead of "second SIM slot"?
<DocScrutinizer05>
so only two SIM/smartcards supported, no matter if mini or fullsize
<Oksana>
Makes sense. Nobody would want the confusion of three SIMs
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep
<DocScrutinizer05>
Wizzup: we noticed that new LTE modem is a 0.7some mm higher than previously specified by Gemalto
<Wizzup>
I read the discussion :)
<Oksana>
Okay, how difficult would it be to replace "second SIM slot" with a "full-size SIM slot" on UMTS phones for curious customers?
<DocScrutinizer05>
rework? impossible
<DocScrutinizer05>
you however could use an adapter of course
<DocScrutinizer05>
mini-SIM with attached flex cable and a fullsize tray
<Oksana>
Not rework, just offer an option to customer: does (s)he want one or another?
<DocScrutinizer05>
nah, we can't handle that
<Oksana>
Okay, mini-SIM with attached flex cable and a fullsize tray...
<DocScrutinizer05>
or you add a silly simple smartcard reader to hackerbus :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
or to USB
<Oksana>
Okay, but I am thinking on what can fit in additional 0.8mm...
<Oksana>
Not dangling outside...
<DocScrutinizer05>
for the miniSIM&tray, the 'tray' could be as simple as a six tiny pogopins and a stop block for the fullsize SIM a few dozen mm further down the flex cable. the whole thing would be smaller than 15*25mm and very flat and completely flexible (except the miniSIM part)
<DocScrutinizer05>
easily fits into your purse
<DocScrutinizer05>
not really convenient to use, but very convenient to always have on you
<DocScrutinizer05>
so *in case* you eventually want to read a CC
<DocScrutinizer05>
with the newly available 0.8mm, I dunno what to do with them
<DocScrutinizer05>
the fullsize smartcard idea is nifty but pretty complex to implement
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<DocScrutinizer05>
>>chips in financial cards are the same as those used in ... SIMs ... embedded in a different piece of PVC<< The first SIMs were exactly same format and PVC as CC/bank-cards
<DocScrutinizer05>
and yes, the chips are also rather similar I guess
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<Oksana>
How easy would it be to access the inside of the spacer? Would it be easier to cut a hole in spacer for card-in-card-out or to open the inside of the spacer each time to place a fullsize SIM inside it?
<DocScrutinizer05>
check out USB card readers, they can read CC, SmartCards (for authentication), probably ID cards, and SIM with adapter
<DocScrutinizer05>
the latter means disassembling the phone
<DocScrutinizer05>
thus you want a rather huge slot to insert a fullsize smartcard
<DocScrutinizer05>
which in turn might create mechanical and also usability (resp dirt) issues
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm already worried about those aspects of a tiny slot in spacerframe for mini-SIM slot-in tray
<DocScrutinizer05>
then you would insert the SmartCard basically in touch with delicate SMT components on both sides of the card
<DocScrutinizer05>
no space to ahve any sort of "wall" between card slot and components
<DocScrutinizer05>
best case we could place some capton film over the PCBA
<DocScrutinizer05>
that still leaves the problem of mechanical guidance for the SC when inserted, so it doesn't smash out some resistor or whatever tiny SMT component
<DocScrutinizer05>
insert a slightly bent or even broken (spliss, is that even a word?) card and disaster warranted