DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #neo900 to: http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ and http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900
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<Wizzup> DocScrutinizer51: hiya, I have all the cables etc ready for my charging while in hostmode test, but I'm not sure what exact program I should use. I have the h-e-n, and something with the same icon named "USB mode"
<Wizzup> the links you have me mention a charger script, but that is a 404
<Wizzup> you mentioned that "Pali's GUI" could do it, but I don't know what that one is
* Wizzup re-reads posts
<Wizzup> they seem to contain some contradicting info I think
<Wizzup> one of them suggests to add the external charger at the last moment
<Wizzup> the other one says you can keep it plugged in all the time
<Wizzup> ah--the actual post contains the script
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<DocScrutinizer05> didn't you mention a "host with charging" option in one of your GUIs you use?
<DocScrutinizer05> that should do
<DocScrutinizer05> iirc one of the last additions Moh made to H-E-N GUI was to allow charging-hostmode
<DocScrutinizer05> ~hostmode-charging
<infobot> hostmode-powered is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203
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<Wizzup> I managed!
<Wizzup> I just had to plug in the charger after I selected the mode
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<ac> hello
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<ac_laptop> I would like some details about the modem choice on the down payment page
<ac_laptop> does LTE include utms or not ?
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<ac_laptop> ok it does, but does the lte europe chip provides utms worldwide ?
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<DocScrutinizer05> alas not
<DocScrutinizer05> the LTE modems are not very much "roaming"-affine
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<DocScrutinizer05> urgent service downtime warning from our server hoster: >> Start: 13. Mai 2015 20:00:00 CEST Ende: 13. Mai 2015 23:59:00 CEST (voraussichtlich)<< Duration: "probably a few minutes"
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<DocScrutinizer05> ac_laptop: please see http://neo900.org/faq#networks http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93095 and particularly the resources linked in post #18 there http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1423824#post1423824
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<sno__> awesome
<ac_laptop> DocScrutinizer05: ok, thanks
<DocScrutinizer05> ac_laptop: very welcome
<sno__> Any news on then you expect to release just the complete board
<sno__> no need for the shell as i have plenty of those
<sno__> then = when
<DocScrutinizer05> I hope for this year
<sno__> thats really great news
<sno__> i am ready to buy right away
<DocScrutinizer05> but generally the usual applies: "it's ready when it's done"
<DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> you know Murphy's law, do you? :-)
<bencoh> hush, dont summon murphy
<DocScrutinizer05> on the bright side: we now have a pretty good idea down to the last chip how the device shall look like
<sno__> http://i57.tinypic.com/zuqq1l.jpg I took one of the new n900's home today, i really like the keyboard and I can't wait to drop in the finished main board
<DocScrutinizer05> :-D
<sno__> I no longer use the 5s or even upgrade my main phone anymore due to privacy concerns, using an old nokia for now until neo 900
<DocScrutinizer05> We appreciate every single DIY modder, since the N900 are one of the hardest parts to source
<sno__> I have 8 n900's lying around
<sno__> all in new condition
<sno__> my business repairs phones, so I collect many of them over the years
<sno__> all obsolete so they are sat collecting dust
<sno__> until I found out about your project I quickly put them to one side after that
<DocScrutinizer05> we *could* go build our own mech parts (particularly slider mechanism) but that only gets into reach for a few 1000s
<sno__> the slider mech was one of the common failure points
<sno__> I used to repair them about 6 years ago :D
<DocScrutinizer05> Ohh?
<DocScrutinizer05> what happened to the slider?
<sno__> dust or debris would get down the back of the phones and then grind away at the flex cable
<sno__> eventually the lcd would stop working
<DocScrutinizer05> I think it could go wobbly but harly breaks
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, the FLEX is a completely different story
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<sno__> oh yes the actual mechanism is solid
<DocScrutinizer05> flex cable actually is defect culprit #2 right after USB jack
<sno__> actually the usb jack is soldered solidly to the board its just people would try to plug in micro usb leads the wrong way and press way too hard
<DocScrutinizer05> I think the problem is with unplugging and applying bending force during that
<sno__> hmm
<sno__> i always use my nails to push aay at the housing when removing
<DocScrutinizer05> as a general rule never hold the device while unplugging. Just push against case next to the plug
<sno__> never broken any of my phones
<sno__> bingo
<DocScrutinizer05> exactly what I do as well :-)
<sno__> is the baseband completely partmentalised?
<sno__> a baseband exploit and then return into user memory is not possible?
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, so absolutely totally completely you wouldn't dream it up :-)
<bencoh> sno__: usb
<DocScrutinizer05> we not only reduce data lines to modem to mere USB, we even have current monitors and RF monitors and an external power switch, and we monitor *all* signal lines for suspicious activity
<sno__> can i temp disable the wrote strobe to main storage when plugging into usb?
<sno__> write
<sno__> I mean like a hardware switch
<DocScrutinizer05> err sorry?
<bencoh> sno__: I'd just use a usb cable with D+/D- shortened (or cut)
<sno__> when plugging the device into a computer can it be exploited at that time?
<DocScrutinizer05> the complete Mentorgraphics USB controller engine is completely under CPU control
<DocScrutinizer05> sno__: nope
<DocScrutinizer05> not even on power-up
<DocScrutinizer05> as long as you got a valid bootloader chain in NAND
<DocScrutinizer05> unlike any other phone (with ADB? etc) the Neo900 at no time is vulnerable to rooting via USB
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<sno__> can the baseband know how much power the cpu is using at a given time?
<DocScrutinizer05> no
<DocScrutinizer05> not really
<DocScrutinizer05> could do fancy guessing from battery voltage
<sno__> does the cpu emit electromagnetic emissions that may help an adversary determine which instructions are being executed
<DocScrutinizer05> I can't comment on this, we have no instrumetation to even check
<bencoh> it's a (regular) omap3
<DocScrutinizer05> probably CPU _does_ emit such RF, but on a very low signal level
<bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: neo900.org is down (?)
<DocScrutinizer05> urgent service downtime warning from our server hoster: >> Start: 13. Mai 2015 20:00:00 CEST Ende: 13. Mai 2015 23:59:00 CEST (voraussichtlich)<< Duration: "probably a few minutes"
<bencoh> okay
<specing> server hoster be like: "brb installing rootkits"
<DocScrutinizer05> ==> HTTP <==
<DocScrutinizer05> State is now: OK (21:49h 2015.05.13)
<DocScrutinizer05> State before: ERROR (was 6 minutes)
<DocScrutinizer05> Service params: path=/ port=80
<sno__> what about a custom emi shield for the cpu?
<sno__> i could just add my own nm
<DocScrutinizer05> we will comply with the rather harsch German CE emi regulations. Even a custom shielding doesn't rule out signals escaping
<DocScrutinizer05> as a general rule EMI from CPU only gives *hints* on what the CPU is doing, it's not like a wireless in-circuit debugging channel
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, you probably could fingerprint e.g. john-the-ripper, but you can NOT tell what key it tries to crack
<sno__> are you selling any working beta?
<DocScrutinizer05> also to give an idea, I guess the maximum distance you could receive and decode any EMI form CPU is 5 meters
<DocScrutinizer05> if at all
<DocScrutinizer05> razher more like 10cm
<bencoh> hmm, 600mhz (clockrate) at light speed is more than 10cm
<DocScrutinizer05> sno__: we're about to build first working *complete* prottype, with externally attached CPU-board (BB-xM)
<bencoh> but yeah, we're talking about a few microamps
<bencoh> (or mili maybe)
<bencoh> (at most)
<DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: the main topic to look at when it comes to CPU EMI is antenna length and thus antenna gain
<sno__> fractal antennas can do amazing things
<DocScrutinizer05> the antenna length generally is in the sub-mm range
<DocScrutinizer05> plus the CPU is already shielded from both sides, by a massive copper plabne below and a 3 RAM/NAND cips in PoP
<DocScrutinizer05> chips*
<DocScrutinizer05> thus I doubt much RF can get generated and actually transmitted by the ALU or other IPs on the SoC
<DocScrutinizer05> prolly what's radiating most are the power supply lines to CPU core
<sno__> well i'm already sold, i'm tired of the usual qualcomm/mediatech backdoored crap
<DocScrutinizer05> you *could* "trace" a code execution if you knew *exactly* the code that gets executed. But that's totally impossible to predict on a multitasking system
<DocScrutinizer05> sno__: hehe, so are we
<bencoh> +1
<DocScrutinizer05> and again, my educated guess on RFI/EMI is: no way more than 10cm distance
<DocScrutinizer05> I would bet my ass on anybody trying to implement such attack fails for years even with direct physical contact to SoC allowed (modulo attaching wires to the circuit)
<DocScrutinizer05> sno__: the qualcom/MTK crap has one huuuge advantage: it's incredibly cheap compared to our design
<DocScrutinizer05> Moore's law doesn't stop at SoCs
<DocScrutinizer05> we're using 2007 technology
<DocScrutinizer05> at 2007 prices
<DocScrutinizer05> nowadays you get a complete smartphone on a chip for what we pay for the OMAP3 alone
<sno__> even if no one is trying to "hack" my phone theres just a nice feeling of being liberated by using something like neo 900
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, absolutely. I don't want to ever have to surrender to Android or Winphone or iOS
<DocScrutinizer05> I want *me* _owning_ the phone, *not* any Apple or Google or M$
<DocScrutinizer05> or Nokia (Harmattan)
<DocScrutinizer05> ==> HTTP <==
<DocScrutinizer05> State is now: OK (22:28h 2015.05.13)
<DocScrutinizer05> State before: ERROR (was 16 minutes)
<sno__> why is it called neo?
<DocScrutinizer05> because it's based on Openmoko Neo Freerunner and N900
<sno__> the first to free people from the tryanny we live under ?
<bencoh> :-)
<sno__> oh
<DocScrutinizer05> Name was the brightest idea in whole project
<bencoh> let's hope it still packs with other bright/brilliant stuff ;)
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<DocScrutinizer05> 6 customers out of 20 voucher mails, not half bad
<DocScrutinizer05> :-)
<wpwrak> now if we just knew how many actually saw the mail :)
<jonsger> so you have about 125 customers?
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<bencoh> let's hope it's more than that
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