<dos1>
except people eligible for prototypes - they will get theirs in next minutes
<Oksana>
I don't understand how voucher works, in case of voucher-number being larger than pre-order number. It gives me total of 0, when I would have expected total of negative...
<dos1>
Oksana: you'll automatically get a new voucher for a reminder AFAIK
<Oksana>
Ah, okay... /Waiting for auto-letter with new voucher.../
<dos1>
or the same voucher gets adjusted - dunno, I haven't tested that personally. DocScrutinizer05 and wpwrak did :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
new voucher: ${voucher}-2
<Oksana>
:-D Thank you. Is there anything else on sale right now, besides devices and board? /Going to wander the website a bit.../
<DocScrutinizer05>
you get an email and also see new voucher "highlighted" (listed) under "my vouchers"
<DocScrutinizer05>
Oksana: we got top-up 1€ items, when you want to pay more than the basic down payment. Not applicable in your case :-)
<Oksana>
Good :-) I have put all the devices (with diverse selection of cellular chips because I have no idea which one is better) into the cart, and used once the voucher. So, no more action needed until you put some more chips or something into the shop? ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
dos1: :-)) many thanks for awesome job you accomplished!
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway, sorry peeps I suffer migraine and am afk for a 8-14h
xes has quit [Quit: leaving]
<Oksana>
All three links seem to give Neo404?
<Oksana>
No emails about new voucher, either...
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, our best model
<DocScrutinizer05>
what? now email about new voucher?
<dos1>
Oksana: seems like you have your order still in cart
<Oksana>
Ah, then hunt down the check out button>
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep, no order from you
<dos1>
yeah, you have to check out, then "pay" (eur 0 in your case :)) and then you'll get the voucher
<Oksana>
Can I change shipping address after clicking check-out? :p
<dos1>
not sure if you can, be we can for sure in admin panel
<dos1>
so don't worry ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
you can change shpping addr any time, we#re not shipping yet
* Oksana
is currently going insane with both telephony and shipping addresses, for various reasons...
<Oksana>
Okay, good to hear :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
for the record: 4 new registrations and 3 orders during 20 min. Peeps do you just sit there whole day waiting for email from neo900? :-o ;-)
<Oksana>
Done! All works, email and website :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-))
<dos1>
okay, and 4 remaining e-mails sent as well
<DocScrutinizer05>
dos1: Thanks a bazillion
<dos1>
now everyone should get their vouchers - if only their e-mail addresses are still valid :)
* Oksana
: yes. Though, it's not just Neo900 :p I would gladly pre-order DragonBox Pyra as more portable replacement of my dusty laptop - but they do not have pre-orders open, yet...
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, pyra is more 'commercial'
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's their SECOND device after all
<DocScrutinizer05>
first device (pandora) Nikolaus saved their a****
* DocScrutinizer05
recently pondered if they would want to build a pandora-1GB ;-)
* Oksana
is also looking at a third device, from a company which failed their first device, but it going to not-fail their re-incarnation ;-) Not going to advertise it much, though, because: 1) not-open-at-all hardware (though on software side they promise multi-boot); 2) pre-order window closed already.
<DocScrutinizer05>
o/ enjoy!
<DocScrutinizer05>
while I take a second aspirin
nicksydney has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
<dos1>
18 orders overall already, if I'm counting right
nicksydney has joined #neo900
<Oksana>
How many of 18 orders are just one board-or-device, and how many of them are more than that? ;-) Out of curiosity...
<dos1>
let's see!
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess 50% bought top-ups
<Wizzup>
is the shop open for people who didn't donate some time ago? jw
<Wizzup>
I did, and got a voucher, but I'm wondering
<DocScrutinizer05>
Wizzup: yes, feel free to go to my DOT neo900 DOT org
<Wizzup>
ack, been there
<Wizzup>
will finish process/pay tomorrow
<DocScrutinizer05>
we want to launch the URL gently
<Wizzup>
:)
<Wizzup>
ack
<dos1>
it's not yet officially linked anywhere, but it's not a secret as well
<DocScrutinizer05>
you seen wpwrak's *excellent* walk-through?
<dos1>
so feel free to point your friends there if they ask ;)
nicksydney_ has joined #neo900
<Wizzup>
yes, looked good
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
nicksydney has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<Oksana>
What does .pbz mean? Just seen it in a really long activate-account url...
<DocScrutinizer05>
we gave this shop quite some love to make everything work, incl docs
<DocScrutinizer05>
Oksana: sorry? please PM
<Wizzup>
it def. looked good
<Wizzup>
I had to recently create a shop from scratch for work -- wasn't fun
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's torture
<dos1>
Oksana: if I'm reading the stats right, it's 14 times Neo900; 3 times NeoN and 221 EUR in top ups
<Wizzup>
I was considering NeoN since I have plenty of n900s lying around... but if it's hard I'd probably go for the full thing ;)
<dos1>
what do you mean by "hard"?
<Wizzup>
to turn a NeoN + N900 into a Neo900
<Wizzup>
guess it's probably quite doable :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
no, it's easy
<Wizzup>
right!
<dos1>
not much harder than taking the the N900 mainboard off the case and putting it back
<dos1>
which I already did lots of times - and I'm pretty clumsy when it comes to anything manual ;)
<Wizzup>
that's simple then :)
<dos1>
Oksana: ah, I think those stats don't include orders in "awaiting bank wire payment" state :)
* Oksana
is hoping that there will be lots of shop-finalised pre-orders by the end of this month... As in, at least 400+ devices-or-boards pre-bought through website...
<dos1>
so +4 Neo900s, +2 NeoNs and +690 eur in top ups
<dos1>
so 23 devices right now, which seems in line with everyone having one and you having six :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
dos1: now I think it's up to you to start another social media hype about "Neo900 opened shop for preorders"
<unclouded>
I'm still trying to work out which modem I need based on my favoured carrier in NZ
<Wizzup>
you could try hacker news even ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
unclouded: please see tmo thread!
<Wizzup>
careful for imminent traffic flood though
<dos1>
DocScrutinizer05: sure, but we have to make it visible on main page first
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, no hurry, just go ahead like a cool man
<unclouded>
DocScrutinizer05: got a link? which thread?
<DocScrutinizer05>
unclouded: NOTE: frequencies are ambiguous. Asl for BANDS
<DocScrutinizer05>
ask*
<unclouded>
thanks, yes, that's where I started. I could get the worldwide UMTS and have no 4G, or I have to choose between PLS8-E or PLS8-US
<DocScrutinizer05>
same here :-/
<DocScrutinizer05>
I personaly will prolly go for worldwide 3G
<DocScrutinizer05>
4G is kinda.... luxury
<DocScrutinizer05>
ultrafast browsing but no decent roaming
<unclouded>
interesting. so if I want to roam back to the UK and HU then I should probably consider PHS8 instead
<DocScrutinizer05>
and that "ultrafast" is omly twcie or 3 times as fast as good 3G
* DocScrutinizer05
shouldn't type with migraine
<unclouded>
with aura?
<DocScrutinizer05>
nah, only bad headache
<unclouded>
still nasty
<DocScrutinizer05>
seems to even keep level
<DocScrutinizer05>
cat allergy
<unclouded>
trapped between a rock and hard place: get rid of the cats or have headaches :(
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, I can't afford to have any of them lovely pets, but I visited a friend who has one
<unclouded>
anyway I think you've made it clear for me: 3G is going to be around for ages so I can forgo LTE in favour of better compatibility today
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, 3G is here to stay for years and years
<Oksana>
Ouch... Does sleeping it off help? /Sleep helps me when my allergy gets too strong... Not sure to what it is, though... Not cats, not dogs, something really rare and weird.../
<DocScrutinizer05>
dunno, but my being around for today is timed
<DocScrutinizer05>
dos1: we need to pimp up frontpage a tad
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm two devices on one order :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
bbl folks
<DocScrutinizer05>
Oksana: waiting for your order of 6(?)
<DocScrutinizer05>
oooh nm
<DocScrutinizer05>
there it is
<Oksana>
:-)
<Oksana>
Diversified cellular modems ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep, good choice :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
now FINALLY we can go on doing EE development nstead of webshop etc
<DocScrutinizer05>
I hope
* DocScrutinizer05
feels like current headache lasted for last 6 weeks
<DocScrutinizer05>
Oksana: do you feel like writing a newsletter? ;-)
<Oksana>
Maybe
<DocScrutinizer05>
I much appreciate the concept of guest authors for those
bleb has joined #neo900
Humpelst1lzchen has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
Humpelstilzchen has joined #neo900
<bleb>
Is there some guideline for deciding which modem to order?
<unclouded>
I've just been through that. I decided on the PHS8 because it has the best compatibility for roaming and I don't anticipate needing 4G any time soon
<unclouded>
and because some carriers in my country ( NZ) are doing 4G on 850 MHz and some on 1800 MHz, so I'd be locked in no matter which 4G modem I could choose
<bleb>
would you say PHS8 is a safe bet if I want maximum compatibility with different networks but don't care about 4G?
<unclouded>
I'm no expert but it sounds that way. I want to roam so the widest compatibility is import to me
<unclouded>
what I've only just noticed is that later posts on that TMO thread have country-specific advice
Oksana has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
lobito1 is now known as lobito
Oksana has joined #neo900
norly has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<fling>
Ok, received my voucher.
<fling>
Will free wifi firmware be developed?
<fling>
Will not n900 camera be reused?
<wpwrak>
(cam) nope, we'll use the n97 camera module. that's easier, safer, and possibly even cheaper than reusing the n900 camera.
<fling>
wpwrak: why cheaper?
<wpwrak>
fling: that socket in which the N900 camera is mounted seems to be a very difficult thing to source
<wpwrak>
besides, prying the N900 camera out of that socket without damaging it is not that easy (i managed to involuntarily convert mine to fixed-focus that way :)
bleb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<fling>
ohh
<freemangordon>
wpwrak: how do you think, would it create problems if I enter my details (name, address, etc) in cyrillic? In the webshop that is.
<fling>
freemangordon: Will the german guys be able to read runes?
<freemangordon>
well, cyrillic is official in EU for some years now :). And it is not exactly runes.
<fling>
DocScrutinizer05: Привет, можете это прочитать? :D
<freemangordon>
russian?
<fling>
freemangordon: yes ;>
Pali has joined #neo900
<freemangordon>
DocScrutinizer05: I guess having a combo-box with possible variants for "Preferred keyboard layout (no guarantee for availability)" would make more sense than a free-form text.
<freemangordon>
as it is not much clear what am I supposed to enter there - "qwerty" or "english" or...
Pali has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<freemangordon>
DocScrutinizer05: also, why is my "cart" empty after I did a payment? shouldn't be something there?
qwazix has joined #neo900
<qwazix>
morning!
<freemangordon>
qwazix: hi
<freemangordon>
long time no see :)
<qwazix>
busy, and other things in life :-)
<qwazix>
how are things?
<freemangordon>
as usual, no enough developers :)
<freemangordon>
so, you're going for neo900?
<qwazix>
I just received my voucher but I really can't afford to spend a grand right now.
<freemangordon>
hmm, wait, you only have to pay the difference
<freemangordon>
not the total
<qwazix>
still 900 is a big sum
<freemangordon>
yeah, it is, but at least you know what you pay for.
<qwazix>
That's true
<freemangordon>
also, when you spread the payments over the time, it doesn't hurt that much :D
<freemangordon>
if your wife doesn't see it ofc :P
<qwazix>
lol, that's some of the perks of not being married :P
<freemangordon>
qwazix: you know what is better to not being married?
<qwazix>
?
<freemangordon>
being divorced :P
<qwazix>
so you won't make the same mistake twice?
<freemangordon>
exactly, I know what I am talking about ;)
<qwazix>
I trust you :-)
<qwazix>
I hope there's enough demand that my Neo900 doesn't stay unsold if I don't go forward with it...
<qwazix>
wouldn't want to cause a problem
<qwazix>
though, I'll think it over and count my beans once more
<freemangordon>
well, I guess there will be more people like you, who can't afford the price increase
<freemangordon>
lets see, I hope to have some statistics on what is paid after a while
<freemangordon>
also, now the webshop works, maybe PR will attract new customers
<qwazix>
Ok, if things are kinda life and death, ping me and I'll probably find a way
<freemangordon>
DocScrutinizer05: ^^^
<qwazix>
I really want to see this project succeed
<qwazix>
Got to go, nice talking to you
<qwazix>
o/
* freemangordon
gtg too
mvaenskae has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
freemangordon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
jusa__ is now known as jusa_
mvaenskae has joined #neo900
freemangordon has joined #neo900
<Humpelstilzchen>
do we have to pay eactly the amount in the voucher or can we round up?
sparetire_ has quit [Quit: sparetire_]
<dos1>
Humpelstilzchen: if you don't pay the whole amount of voucher, you'll automatically get another voucher for the remainder
<dos1>
Humpelstilzchen: you can either spend it for top ups now, or wait to use it on final order
<useretail>
sorry, it's not related to neo900, but i just wanted to share
<useretail>
one of comments: So Jolla supports terrorussia! Congratulations! Great deal!
<useretail>
one of jolla investors is from russia
arossdotme has joined #neo900
<Humpelstilzchen>
useretail: you don't like russians?
jonwil has joined #neo900
jonsger has joined #neo900
bleb has joined #neo900
<rjeffries>
I am curious what Sailfish OS will eventually become. It's not a terrible concept by any means.
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<useretail>
Humpelstilzchen: why?
<Humpelstilzchen>
15:45:27 < useretail> one of comments: So Jolla supports terrorussia!
<useretail>
it wasn't my comment
<DocScrutinizer05>
freemangordon: ((why is my "cart" empty)) you "took the goods home" ;-) Cart is what you proceed at cashier, after you paid, the cart is sold and empty
<bleb>
anyone in the U.S. ordered the PHS8 (worldwide) modem over the LTE U.S. one? I want to have compatibility around the world and don't care about 4G, but I also need to be sure theres a U.S. carrier that will work
<DocScrutinizer05>
freemangordon: ((combo box)) yes, that would be an alternative, but I considered it too limiting for users to express things like >>qwerty (us) or qwertz (de)<< or even >>Dvorak if not available then qwerty if not available then azerty if not available then anything usable with vi.<<
<DocScrutinizer05>
bleb: try to find out which *bands* your carrier supports. *bands* are precisely specified by 3GPP while 'frequency' is quite ambiguous and fuzzy
<DocScrutinizer05>
e.g. there are 3 or 4 bands all called "700MHz" by their frequency moniker
<bleb>
thanks, I'll check it out
<DocScrutinizer05>
carriers sometimes use different "frequency: XXXX" name for same band
<DocScrutinizer05>
some bands are named by their downlink frequency, others by their uplink frequency, which always differ and sometimes this results in ambiguous naming
<DocScrutinizer05>
something like BAND-14 is absolutely clear
<DocScrutinizer05>
at least when you augment it by the Radio-Access-Technology (RAT) which is UMTS, LTE
<DocScrutinizer05>
PHS8 supports UMTS:Bd1,2,5,6,8
<bencoh>
there is no way to change it (firmware flashing) ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
afaik not
<bencoh>
I wonder why
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess there are discrete filters in RF secion that are tuned to the supported bands
<bencoh>
maybe
<DocScrutinizer05>
if they had managed to implement a (set of)parametric filter(s), aka tunable filters, that would allow for adjusting to virtually arbitrary frequencies and thus bands. But this technology is pretty new and just emerging on latest generation modem chipsets afaik
<rjeffries>
I want to find online reference which defines frequencies and bands used by (in my case) US mobile carriers. It seems like this MUST exist but I only see bits and oeices
<DocScrutinizer05>
sounds about right but doesn't apply to the baseband situation
<RzR>
worldwide ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
a cellular service where everybody runs his homegrown crappy transmitters would collapse faster than freenode on Saturdays, from all the protocol violations done by mistake or fully intentional by script kiddies
<DocScrutinizer05>
FCC requirement is a grace, not something rogue
<Humpelstilzchen>
hmm for the thickness of neo900, does it vary with the different modem options?
<DocScrutinizer05>
no
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
luckily the modem vaiants are absolute drop in compatible
<Humpelstilzchen>
k, but when ordered without modem, its same thickness as n900?
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry, afk. Neeed to fix one voucher we created incorrectly. One out of 420, not too bad so far
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually the root cause is the sandwich design we need, since modem and other parts need more PCB real estate than available in original N900 design
<Humpelstilzchen>
(not hard to miss is a 254 pages thread)
<x29a>
thanks for sharing
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
<x29a>
so to conclude: even without a modem, the sandwich layer is added, so the thickness is all the same?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<Humpelstilzchen>
does modem affect power usage?
<DocScrutinizer05>
of course... IF it's activated
<Humpelstilzchen>
e.g. when switching lte variants to umts only is power drain > lte only modem?
<DocScrutinizer05>
Neo900 modem however can get switched off *completely* and would be indistinguishable from 'no modem mounted' then
<DocScrutinizer05>
the power consumption of LTE and UMTS differs, yes. But that's mostly related to the technology used rather than the modem itself. IOW a LTE modem on UMTS will use similar power as a UMTS-only modem
<Humpelstilzchen>
k
<DocScrutinizer05>
and both don't use much power at all unless you do data or have an active call
jonwil has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [SeaMonkey 2.33.1/20150321194901]]
<Humpelstilzchen>
oh, the modem does also gps & glonass?
che1 has joined #neo900
norly has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
norly has joined #neo900
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
and it should be better on that than a dedicated GPS chip
<Humpelstilzchen>
so if one wants glonass, lte version is required, I think this should be added to the page
<Humpelstilzchen>
(no idea if someone actually plans to use glonass)
<DocScrutinizer05>
plus you can reliably switch off the GPS function when you get scared about "my modem discloses my location" -- which is a tad silly since every transmitter discloses your location, they knew that even gefore WW-II
<DocScrutinizer05>
no, *all* modems do GPS&GLONASS afaik
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think PHS8 got a firmware update that enables GLONASS as well. The beauty of update-able firmware
<Humpelstilzchen>
k
<DocScrutinizer05>
s/geefore/before/
<Humpelstilzchen>
right, linked PHS8 pdf has only GPS on page 1 but gps/glonass on #3
arcean has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Pali has joined #neo900
illwieckz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
illwieckz has joined #neo900
vakkov has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Guest9142 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
jonsger has quit [Quit: jonsger]
paulk-collins has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
vakkov has joined #neo900
Pali has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<DocScrutinizer05>
> 11% of "available devices" preordered already :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
"available devices" for now means "500 1GByte RAM PoP chips secured"
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually that might be inaccurate numbers, since I only counted orders, not products sold. Multiple products per order is possible and I guess actually happened
<Oksana>
(*all* modems do GPS&GLONASS afaik) Good to hear. (> 11% of "available devices" preordered already; I only counted orders, not products sold) More than 55 orders, more than 57 products? ;-) Good, hoping that with time it will be more than that.
lexik has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ilon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
ilon has joined #neo900
lexik has joined #neo900
<DocScrutinizer05>
OOO Kay here we are in that weird shop: Neo900:45; NeoN:17; Top-Up:1761
<DocScrutinizer05>
~420/(45+17)
<infobot>
6.774193548387
<DocScrutinizer05>
meh
<DocScrutinizer05>
~(45+17)/420
<infobot>
0.147619047619
<DocScrutinizer05>
almost 15% in basically 24h, not half bad already
<DocScrutinizer05>
though my math sucks. Rather my logic
<Wizzup>
let's hope it keeps going up :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's 420/55 (customers)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm quite sure it will
<DocScrutinizer05>
for the >>"available devices" preordered<<:
<DocScrutinizer05>
~400/(45+17)
<DocScrutinizer05>
~500/(45+17)
<DocScrutinizer05>
WAHT?
<DocScrutinizer05>
~botsnack
infobot has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
infobot has joined #neo900
<DocScrutinizer05>
~500/(45+17)
<infobot>
8.064516129032
<DocScrutinizer05>
yayayay
<DocScrutinizer05>
~(45+17)/500
<infobot>
0.124
<DocScrutinizer05>
12%
<DocScrutinizer05>
my math/logic really sucks today
<dos1>
but not all of them are "available", aren't they? there's some margin for warranty etc.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I used the "70" for that, in my mind
<dos1>
ah :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
since mind you, we got a 70 'samples'
<DocScrutinizer05>
and during next weeks, I *could* source more of them chips. Not sure what it looks like in a few months though
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway again thanks to the team for awesome work accomplished, and thanks to all testers for feedback and all customers for their support
<DocScrutinizer05>
afk fro a while
<DocScrutinizer05>
Oksana: Wizzup: ((hoping that with time it will be more))((hope it keeps going up)) 2 new accounts during the first 90 minutes of this Tuesday :-)
<Wizzup>
awesome
<Wizzup>
also, I am getting two sisvga devices (also usb to vga), there was a driver for there since 2.6.16 or so
<Wizzup>
so that should be trivial to compile for maemo 5