<Boulet>
cortex-m1 isn't it made for fpga actually ?
<Boulet>
kind of
<Boulet>
i don't know any CPU who has cortex m1
<Boulet>
plus this $31, i bet they refurbish the altera FPGA
<Boulet>
you can see that a lot in china ... they unsolder the IC from an old board, clean it nicely ... put it back in some nice rack or so ... looks new
<Boulet>
maybe that's ok for some IC, but for flash which develops bad blocks over time, that's really bad
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<RaYmAn>
ZaEarl: alos z80 ;)
<RaYmAn>
also*
<ZaEarl>
z80 had such a nice clean instruction set compared to something like the 6502
<RaYmAn>
going by that logic, there'd never be any reason to get allwinner boards, cause you can just get a tegra3 or similar quadcore for only 2-3 times as much
<RaYmAn>
:P
<rz2k>
tegra had some issues with opensource, no?
<RaYmAn>
it's more open than allwinner right now, lol
<RaYmAn>
the graphics drivers are closed
<rz2k>
also that $31 board doesnt cost $31, cyclone 2 is pretty old one, I doubt altera still manufactures them.
<RaYmAn>
rz2k: sure, but if it does what you need then there's no reason to go 10 times the price :P
<rz2k>
with jtag onboard, cool.
<rz2k>
RaYmAn: I believe rm wants to learn what fpga is and see some CPU core go on fpga, with $30 it is impossible. and buying popular supported by community board that is capable of more than just running cpu itself is pretty great for futher education, right?
<rm>
at $30 a random person can get it just to see what the FPGA thing is all about
<rz2k>
also guy who hosts our second IRC logger, whitequark, did brainfuck cpu on verilog for altys board :D
<rm>
at $349 you have to be pretty determined to actually want/need it
<RaYmAn>
rz2k: well, clearly you can build simple cpu cores on there..8-bit admittedly, but still.
<rz2k>
for that $30 board you also need a altera usbblaster
<rz2k>
or go have sweet love with LPT programmer :3
<rm>
and on some forum I remember reading that they shipped regular mail to someone, and then replied "no matter what you select, we only do regular mail"
<rz2k>
press edit on delivery method
<rz2k>
weird
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<rz2k>
probably they've gone under that UPS/DHL/FedEx Russia crisis, everything that is not regular mail gets unpacked on customs
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<The-Compiler>
Heya! The channel name tells me otherwise, but it seems like this is the right place for Allwinner A10 questions
<RaYmAn>
A10 has definitely been the focus of this channel for a while :)
<The-Compiler>
I want to buy a Mele A2000, a TV-settop-thingy with an Allwinner A10 in it, to run a real Linux on it and use it as a NAS
<The-Compiler>
however, the product page where I want to buy it tells me it only supports SATA disks up to 1TB, so I'm wondering if that's true and why
<RaYmAn>
There are definitely people here who's been using the sata interface a lot. I don't own a mele though, so you'll have to wait till someone pops up
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<The-Compiler>
are they just setting this as a limit in terms of power consumption? I'd open it and disconnect the harddisk bay and add an eSATA port instead anyways, and I'd use it with a drive with an external power supply
<RaYmAn>
I agree that I don't see any reason it wouldn't work (with plain linux and a suitable filesystem/partitioning)
<The-Compiler>
I'm already planning to add two MiniUSB ports, one for the internal USB-slave port, and one with a TTL to USB chip to have a serial console
<RaYmAn>
I'm sure someone here must have tried >1TB disks, if you wait around for while :)
<The-Compiler>
good :)
<The-Compiler>
I originally planned to get a Pandaboard or a CuBox as a NAS, but hacking this thing seems like fun (and it's cheaper, and I get more CPU power)
<Turl>
I have a Mele, with a 1TB disk
<Turl>
except I run it over USB :P
<orly_owl>
you monster
<Turl>
the samsung case is just too nice to break it :<
<The-Compiler>
I'm also wondering if I could desolder the 512MB RAM and add an 1GB chip instead, but I guess I'd be the first one being insane enough to try :D
<Turl>
512M for NAS stuffs is more than enough :)
<orly_owl>
a nas that uses a10 soc would be nice
<orly_owl>
one with 2 or 4 3.5" bays
<The-Compiler>
if someone has a photo of the board where I can actually read the chip's names I'd be thankful :P
<The-Compiler>
gah, nevermind, the RAM is BGA, not going to try that
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<Marex>
orly_owl: it won't ;-)
<Marex>
orly_owl: you'd be missing the DMA pumps that KW has so the performance would suck
<hno>
Boulet, how did you discover it's clocked wrong?
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<RaYmAn>
Either way, it's cool :)
<RaYmAn>
It certainly does make amlogic more interesting
<lkcl>
Mazon: read the comments on that page. AMLogic are a major GPL violator, due to their NDA policy.
<lkcl>
RaYmAn: no, it isn't, and no, it doesn't. sadly.
<lkcl>
AMLogic's NDA policy is in direct violation of the GPL, and AMLogic have, as a result, *completely* lost all rights to use all linux and u-boot GPL source code.
<lkcl>
on that basis, if you use their SoCs, you are absolutely asking for trouble.
<Mazon>
well, which other SoCs are posting their code ?
<lkcl>
as they are actually a USA-based company now, they have left themselves open to lawsuits
<Mazon>
are allwinner posting all their required code ?
<Mazon>
is
<lkcl>
Mazon: freescale, samsung, TI, allwinner, ingenic to name just a few
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<RaYmAn>
from what I heard allwinner has just as bad NDA's though
<lkcl>
samsung are a bit odd, though: they force NDAs to be signed in order to gain access to the hardware documentation of their latest SoCs, but at least they have respected and honoured the GPL by paying companies to develop (and release) GPL-compliant source code.
<lkcl>
RaYmAn: the NDA itself isn't important as long as it doesn't have clauses like "we own all source code, you ABSOLUTELY MUST not release source code without our permission"
<lkcl>
AMLogic's NDA has such clauses, and they refuse to remove them.
<lkcl>
i've been through this with them, after they cost us a hell of a lot of money (and a client)
<Boulet>
hno, use the cortex-a8 internal counter
<lkcl>
and they STILL refused to back down and modify their NDA to be GPL-compliant
<Boulet>
more importantly, the DRAM was still clocked at 24MHz i believe hahahah
<Boulet>
that would make a fairly slow uboot
<RaYmAn>
except it's not
<RaYmAn>
and linux boots just fine as well
<Boulet>
test1 was doing that, maybe you corrected it now
<RaYmAn>
(at least on my device :P)
<Boulet>
cool
<hno>
doesn't boot on mine..
<RaYmAn>
I don't think there's been any changes to the actual dram code in the test1 source
<RaYmAn>
hno: gogo use jtag to figure out :d
<Boulet>
like hno said yesterday, it is broken
<hno>
MBUS part is clearly broken. But not sure what that is. Do not exists in A10.
<RaYmAn>
what is broken?
<RaYmAn>
JTAG or test1? (not really sure which part you talked about there)
<Boulet>
they use a variable that is not initialized and store it in some clocking config
<hno>
RaYmAn, the ddr setup code stolen from pm/standby/ has a fragment dealing with some MBUS clock. That fragment does not make any sense.
<Boulet>
reg_val = (0x1<<31)|(0x2<<24)|(0x1);
<Boulet>
that's probably what they meant ahah
<RaYmAn>
hno: ah
<orly_owl>
Marex: KW?
<RaYmAn>
hno: do you think that is what prevents linux from booting on your device?
<RaYmAn>
(from fel)
<hno>
RaYmAn, no idea.
<hno>
haven't had time to play more with it yet.
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<lkcl>
rz2k: it's not that clear-cut. you have to actually buy a device then request the source code from the person that you bought the device from.
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<lkcl>
rz2k: if they refuse to provide you with the source code within a reasonable period of time, *then* they are in default.
<lkcl>
you have to go through the process.
<lkcl>
once you have gone through the process, then and only then can you say that they are a GPL violator.
<lkcl>
merely comparing 2 git repositories does not allow you to conclude that a GPL violation has taken place.
<Boulet>
do you know the default voltages provided by AXP209 at power-up ?
<CIA-124>
rhombus-tech: Christian master * r51b4e1a2618c /allwinner_a10/orders/Dalkon.mdwn:
<lkcl>
rz2k: ingenic release a BSP (a hardware device). they have released the GPL linux tarball associated with it. therefore, they are GPL compliant
<lkcl>
rz2k: but ingenic have *nothing to do with* whatever modifications varjanta (whoever they are) have made. varjanta may have obtained the original BSP, then gone and modified the source code *themselves*.
<rz2k>
that is ainol leaked package.
<rz2k>
ingenic gives minor customers old kernel on ftp, and newer kernel under NDA.
<lkcl>
rz2k: yep, that's fine. then you must buy an ainol device.
<lkcl>
rz2k: ok, then that's _not_ ok, but have you seen one of these NDAs? does it explicitly state "we own all source code, you CANNOT release any of it without our permission"?
<RaYmAn>
lkcl: that's arguable, I'd say. If e.g. ainol provides a binary download of a ROM, just obtaining that ROM should be sufficient to have the right for the sourcecode?
<lkcl>
or does it say "all source code is ours and you CANNOT release it without permission except of course where there is a free software license then you can comply with that software license"
<lkcl>
RaYmAn: it's complicated, but also very very simple. the short answer is: no it doesn't.
<lkcl>
the *only* person that you have a right to request the source code from is from the person that you bought a device from
<hno>
RaYmAn, unlicensed redistribution do not entitle right to source access. But you certainly have the right to request sources.
<lkcl>
i.e. obtained the binaries from
* WarheadsSE
scrolls up
<lkcl>
so if there ... ah, thanks hno :)
<RaYmAn>
lkcl: exactly. Obtained binaries from. So under the assumption that e.g. ainol provides binaries for free download, they by definition are also required to provide me with GPL source of said binaries
<lkcl>
rz2k: yes, indeed that is rather amusing. copyright date 2 years into the future :)
<lkcl>
RaYmAn: noOoo, listen to what hno said: you are entitled to *request* the source code.
<RaYmAn>
well, you also have the right to request the source code from microsoft.
<lkcl>
if you have not made a request (and also if you have not actually downloaded the binaries) then you are not entitled to the source code.
<hno>
and they are required to provide the source if they want to comply with the license
<hno>
ainol that is.
<lkcl>
only when the binaries are in your *actual* possession do you then have the right to make the request
<lkcl>
yes.
<RaYmAn>
okay, so you're essentially just nitpicking definitions (and essentially are saying that I'm right. Thanks :P)
<lkcl>
RaYmAn: it's a bit of a pain in the arse, to be honest :)
<RaYmAn>
yeah
<rz2k>
I dont believe that ainol will really read any emails and contact retail customers
<hno>
lkcl, not really, there is no connection between possesion of binaries and right to request sources in gplv2.
<lkcl>
hno: ah? ah - i knew i'd get some aspect of this slightly wrong :)
<hno>
it's tied to the act of distribution itself (distributed together with the binary) or to the possessio of a copy of the written offer
<hno>
GPLv2 is a bit messy in online redistribution situations.
<RaYmAn>
hno: ok, so if $company distributes binaries freely, you are entitled to request $sourcecode and they are required to provide sourcecode?
<RaYmAn>
Ignoring leaks and such for the moment, but assuming binaries are legally aquired with no loopholes used or anything.
<Mazon>
with all these blatant linux violations, why is it being ignored by the respective copyright holders? - is it just too hard to solve in china?
<RaYmAn>
Mazon: there is a long post about it on the mailling list
<RaYmAn>
but bascially, yeah, it's practically impossible to persue in china
<hno>
RaYmAn, in GPLv2 if read strictly then to distribute binaries you either have to accompany the binary with the sources (binary and source packaged together in the same package) or you include a piece of paper with instructions how to request sources per mail.
<hno>
neither method maps nicely to online redistribution.
<Mazon>
but if amlogic is now us based, why not go after them ?=
<WarheadsSE>
heh
<WarheadsSE>
this agin
<WarheadsSE>
psst.. via kernel.
* WarheadsSE
runs away
<RaYmAn>
hno: so if they don't include a "written offer" (in a text file presumably), they are illegally distributing it?
<rz2k>
interesting, is there any lawsuit filled and won against gpl-violating company ever?
<Mazon>
no, only settle out of court afaik
<Mazon>
dropbear being one of those
<xxiao>
Mazon: AMlogic has always been usa-based
<traeak>
oh interesting amlogic is us based
<traeak>
hmm
<xxiao>
it's just that something like 2% of them are HQ in SF and 98% of them are in China
<Boulet>
i have hard time to see the default values in there hahah
<The-Compiler>
the tables further down seem to be English
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<furan>
there are pdf translation services/apps
<Boulet>
haha
<Boulet>
indeed
<Boulet>
or we can ask our chinese friends on the channel :o)
<Turl>
axp voltages, I've seen 'em on script.fex :P
<Turl>
and GPL violation case.. busybox iirc
<Turl>
pretty big win there
<xxiao>
Boulet: what's that
<xxiao>
document?
<Boulet>
xxiao, this is the power management IC that goes together with the A1X
<Boulet>
used for voltage control when doing frequency scaling
<xxiao>
i c, never opened that doc
<xxiao>
yes most of them are in chinese
<xxiao>
which is the No.1 spoken language :)
<Boulet>
hahaha, aren't you proud :D
<xxiao>
not really, just the fact
<Boulet>
but if you go to the streets of guangzhou, do you think you hear mandarin ?
<furan>
Boulet: but then you'd have to ask them every time
<thefrog>
It is good to audit compliance with open source requests.
<furan>
do you think chinese companies care?
<thefrog>
even if you have a policy in place on how to comply..there is always some doofus in the organization that doesn't know and says 'no'
<thefrog>
it is espcially annoying when it is your organization.
<furan>
in the case of these chinese companies it is because they see the code as "high priority" and something they cannot give out lest other companies copy it
<furan>
that is the explanation I have gotten from two different a10-using companies when asking them for source. I had to get a seller to really push them
<thefrog>
we had to really push our suppliers on the open source aspect of the chips they used... they say "we comply" all the time but did not.
<hno>
A10 do not have built-in wifi. It does have some form of built-in GPS however, but have not seen any information or code on how to use it.
<hno>
gone in A13.
<The-Compiler>
Gumboot: SATA over USB, eww.
<The-Compiler>
since there were quite some discussions in the meantime: I want to get a Mele A2000 with an A10 in it, however the product description says it's SATA port only supports drives up to 1TB - I'd like to know if anyone tried a bigger HDD, since I don't really believe that.
<The-Compiler>
s/it's/its/
<ibot>
The-Compiler meant: since there were quite some discussions in the meantime: I want to get a Mele A2000 with an A10 in it, however the product description says its SATA port only supports drives up to 1TB - I'd like to know if anyone tried a bigger HDD, since I don't really ...
<traeak>
i plugged in a 1TB sata drive but there wasn't enough power for the drive
<traeak>
that was using the cradle
<traeak>
oh i did connect up a2tb drive
<traeak>
i dont' recall having problems
<Marex>
traeak: of course ... there's nothing that'd limit a sata port to support only up to 1TB drive
<The-Compiler>
I agree to that, but still I wanted to be sure before buying
<Marex>
only reasonable limit is 2TB, but if you use some not-30-years-old disk format, you're fine too
<traeak>
i would need to tear it all apart again
<The-Compiler>
I'll probably disconnect the cradle anyways and add an eSATA-port instead
<The-Compiler>
so I need an external power supply anyways
<Marex>
The-Compiler: or fix the internal powersupply :)
<traeak>
just plug a different sata cable into the mobo
<traeak>
and run it out, hopefully with an esata bracket
<Marex>
traeak: aren't the voltage levels on the esata port different ?
<The-Compiler>
Marex: there are a bunch of SATA to eSATA cables, so I doubt that
<Marex>
The-Compiler: with a voltage shifter maybe ?
<The-Compiler>
Minimum transmit amplitude increased: Range is 500–600 mV instead of 400–600 mV.
<The-Compiler>
Minimum receive amplitude decreased: Range is 240–600 mV instead of 325–600 mV.
<Marex>
The-Compiler: so you might run into issues with unstable transmission
<The-Compiler>
probably to account for some voltage drop with a longer cable, but they are both in the range of normal SATA
<The-Compiler>
eh? Actually the opposite rather.
<The-Compiler>
at least if "transmit" and "recieve" are from the view of the harddrive
<Marex>
The-Compiler: it doesn't matter actually, it's a differential transmission, so your voltage drop might be somewhere around 200mV
<Marex>
I'd start being careful there
<Marex>
but, I didn't really read the spec about the encoding on the wire etc, so I'm really just guessing
<The-Compiler>
hm, I wonder how I will fit the eSATA-port into the casing
<The-Compiler>
or maybe someone has another recommendation... I just need something cheap running Linux with eSATA and ethernet and not using too much power
<The-Compiler>
or USB3 instead of eSATA
<hno>
The-Compiler, trimslice uses SATA over USB...
<hno>
they didn't get the Tegra2 pci-e controller to accept an SATA controller.
<hno>
The-Compiler, voltage levels are from the view of the endpoint you look at. There is one transmit and receive end of each channel.
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<The-Compiler>
hmm, just discovered the Seagate GoFlex Home
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<RaYmAn>
hno: hm, i'm pretty sure DCC has to work, since it looks like the cortex_a8 module in openocd uses it for pretty much anything
<Marex>
RaYmAn: unless the chip reports wrong address of the <whatdoyoucallit? see mx51, it's wrong there> port
<RaYmAn>
Marex: wouldn't most other things fail as well then?
<Marex>
RaYmAn: it was just a random rant ... if the openocd doesn't detect it, everything breaks
<WarheadsSE>
The-Compiler: or, use a 3TB with a GPT+MBR hybrid
<The-Compiler>
oh, you in here, your nick sounds familiar from the ArchlinuxARM forums
<The-Compiler>
first I need to decide what device to buy after I fried my pandaboard... Ideally something with a decent CPU, 512MB+ RAM, eSATA and Gigabit Ethernet... Didn't find anything yet.
<Marex>
The-Compiler: the A10 isn't as powerful as omap4
<The-Compiler>
CuBox has a bad CPU, GoFlex bad CPU and little RAM, Mele no Gigabit LAN... bleh
<WarheadsSE>
The-Compiler: its'a me
<WarheadsSE>
The-Compiler: hmm
<traeak>
what about one of hte newer pogos?
<WarheadsSE>
bad cpu?
<Marex>
traeak: marvell chip, bad
<WarheadsSE>
OMG not a V4
<traeak>
okay
<WarheadsSE>
ick
<WarheadsSE>
downclocked 280
<The-Compiler>
and it should run ArchlinuxARM, but I could start a new port I think.
<Marex>
WarheadsSE: V4 ?
<WarheadsSE>
800mhz, 128M..
<WarheadsSE>
pogoplug V4
<Marex>
oh ... heh
<WarheadsSE>
bonus of having usb3.0 on a pcie bus
<Marex>
The-Compiler: everything armv5 should run any armv5 code ;-)
<WarheadsSE>
80MB/s
<Marex>
<yay>
<The-Compiler>
I use SSH for file transfers so I need some CPU so this doesn't become the bottleneck in the LAN
<WarheadsSE>
The-Compiler: use cryptodev?
<WarheadsSE>
serious drop in cpu usave because of mv_cesa
<WarheadsSE>
The memory is the bottleneck on the devices
<The-Compiler>
shouldn't be so much relevant as there will only be ArchlinuxARM and rsync running
<WarheadsSE>
yup
<WarheadsSE>
works..
<WarheadsSE>
we should be getting odroidx(s) soon
<WarheadsSE>
have one of these on the way to me now
<The-Compiler>
hmm, the n6x looks great, although on the top of my budget and I can't wait another 3 months or so before having a NAS again... I think I'll shut up and get a Mele :D
<traeak>
only diff between this and the mele is soc and ram
<The-Compiler>
I can get the mele for 90$ including shipping at dealextreme
<traeak>
aliexpress through tom
<The-Compiler>
what?
<WarheadsSE>
get it though hno/hipboi
<The-Compiler>
why so?
<WarheadsSE>
they're helpful in getting allwinner to assit where needed..
<WarheadsSE>
just trafficing active members of the community