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<rqou>
azonenberg: you really need to finish your greenpak ethernet phy to troll @dragosr
<rqou>
apparently this is the same guy that went nuts and imagined badbios
<azonenberg>
yes
<azonenberg>
now he thinks magjacks have implants in them
<rqou>
right, so of course you need to go build an actual one
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<zkms>
what ended up coming of the badbios thing?
<rqou>
several people demonstrated each component individually as feasible
<rqou>
the actual alleged implant does not appear to exist
<azonenberg>
But there was no evidence that the deployment he envisioned actually existed
<azonenberg>
plus, what state-level attacker would keep going after the guy after he started going to this level looking for bugs?
<azonenberg>
its a great way to burn your secrets
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<azonenberg>
awygle: btw the crosstalk board came in today
<azonenberg>
The -15 dB attenuators still don't seem to be working right, i cant seem to get any signal at all through them
<rqou>
how's the house? :P
<rqou>
the walls done yet?
<azonenberg>
But i did measurements of crosstalk and it's below the noise floor
<azonenberg>
rqou: yes we finished the last wall
<azonenberg>
didnt wire it yet
<azonenberg>
but it's built
<rqou>
nice
<azonenberg>
We spent most of the evening dealing with an unexpected contingency though
<rqou>
inspection wen :P
<rqou>
oh no not again
<azonenberg>
the city came over earlier today to empty our dumpster
<rqou>
lolol
<azonenberg>
saw the big pile of fire brick and the fireplace
<azonenberg>
and NOPE'd out of there
<rqou>
did they not enjoy your surprise?
<azonenberg>
So we have to extricate the fireplace from the dumpster
<azonenberg>
Good news is, a random redneck rolled up in a pickup as we were trying to figure out how to get it out
<azonenberg>
And offered to take it off our hands for a pack of heineken
<azonenberg>
(if we could get it out of the dumpster)
<rqou>
lololol
<azonenberg>
guessing he's gonna sell it for scrap
<rqou>
is firebrick not allowed to be put in the dumpster?
<azonenberg>
Uncrushable stuff in large quantities
<azonenberg>
messes with the compactor
<azonenberg>
so bulk concrete, masonry in general, etc
<azonenberg>
you have to contract separately with a different pickup service
<rqou>
well, TIL
<azonenberg>
that just hauls it off without squishing
<azonenberg>
anyway he's coming back tomorrow so we have until then to get it out
<azonenberg>
i made a "swing set" A-frame that goes over the dumpster and rigged a block and tackle to a tow chain threaded through the fireplace flue
<azonenberg>
It almost worked but is about 1-2 feet too short so i have to extend the legs to get it all the way out
<azonenberg>
by the time i realized that, it was 2100 and i didnt want to be doing more noisy hammering and sawzalling
<azonenberg>
Tomorrow's goal is to finish the job and wire the new wall
<azonenberg>
This will push us a day or two behind schedule so we probably wont meet the goal of finishing all electrical by EOM, but i'm confident we can finish by the end of the calendar week
<azonenberg>
including the weekend
<azonenberg>
We also put in a giant order for a whole house worth of insulation
<azonenberg>
there's a ~2 week lead time and we wanted it to be ready by the time the electrical and framing inspections had been signed off
<azonenberg>
So that should arrive mid June, as soon as we have it hung we'll arrange the sheetrock delivery (which only has a ~3 day lead time)
<azonenberg>
so by the time insulation is inspected, the sheetrock is here
<azonenberg>
Then we can spend the second half of june hanging rock
<azonenberg>
Most of the time there will be measuring and cutting all the holes for outlets etc, the actual hanging is gonna be quick
<pie_>
any googling i didnt didnt really return any results for zkp or zero knowledge proof so yeah
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<digshadow>
I've been playing a bit with Xilinx *ISE* tcl recently. Does anyone by chance have experience with it? Such as if they ran into a lot of issues using it?
<azonenberg>
digshadow: I'm so sorry
<azonenberg>
:p
<digshadow>
oh you should be
<digshadow>
I'll post some snippets later
<azonenberg>
At least you're not using... what's it called again?
<azonenberg>
the thing that came before ISE
<digshadow>
Technically thats Alliance, but I think you are thinking of XACTstep
<digshadow>
er Foundation
<digshadow>
the biggest issue with xactstep is using non-verilog languages
<digshadow>
I didn't use the GUI too much, but ken s used it and thought it was pretty good for software of that era
<rqou>
i was not aware that ise even had tcl
<azonenberg>
planahead does
<azonenberg>
for sure
<azonenberg>
planahead is a direct ancestor to vivado
<azonenberg>
and looks almost the same (but it still calls out to the ISE compilers under the hood)
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<azonenberg>
For vivado they rewrote the back end, added new features, but ketp basically the same ui
<digshadow>
azonenberg: FWIW planahead isn't available for CPLD designs
<rqou>
yeah almost nothing is
<rqou>
this is why zia fuzzing is incredibly difficult
<azonenberg>
yeah cplds seem to be kind of an afterthought with the modern software
<azonenberg>
xilinx basically stopped doing anything with them since ~2004
<digshadow>
I'm also having some issues with the tcl API, I'm going to see if it works better on FPGAs
<azonenberg>
Gut feeling: any features added post-2005 probably wont work on FPGA
<azonenberg>
:p
<digshadow>
you mean cpld?
<azonenberg>
oops
<azonenberg>
yeah
<azonenberg>
That and, in general the tile vs star topology means there is almost no tool commonality possible past synthesis
<digshadow>
so I'm playing with the fpga flow, and looks like a lot of stuff is still pretty broken
<digshadow>
although I did get some of the object querying stuff to work on files at least
<digshadow>
there appears to be some stuff you can do with sites and such, but I'm having difficulty getting it to work
<digshadow>
for example, you are supposed to be able to do "search "/*" -type site" but noting "If a project is loaded, supported types can be: file, instance, lib_vhdl and partition. If a device is loaded, supported types can be: belsite, io_standard, site and tile."
<digshadow>
so I guess you can't query anything about how the device is actually used in your project
<digshadow>
kc8apf: I tried running flow from tcl command line, didn't help to "load a device". From what I can tell the tcl API is mostly just calling command line programs, so maybe theres not a lot of new things you can get at with it
<digshadow>
kc8apf: looking, but I think thats the same stuff you get in the tcl help
<azonenberg>
yeah thats the big diff between vivado and ise
<digshadow>
as a small note, I am using 14.5 and 14.7
<digshadow>
its possible 14.7 would have some of these fixed
<reportingsjr>
azonenberg: are you hanging your own sheetrock?
<azonenberg>
reportingsjr: not for another 2-3 weeks but yes
<azonenberg>
will probably hire out the ceiling but TBD
<reportingsjr>
oof
<reportingsjr>
yeah, that's a tough task
<azonenberg>
We can do the walls for sure
<reportingsjr>
have you done it before on a semi-large scale?
<azonenberg>
Single rooms
<azonenberg>
Just not a whole house
<reportingsjr>
ah, ok
<reportingsjr>
That's one of those things that seems relatively easy, but to do well requires quite a lot of scale
<azonenberg>
oh actually i did a good chunk of a factory floor at my old company too
<digshadow>
azonenberg, rqou: oh how did the hackathon thing go?
<azonenberg>
Ended up being more talking about design plans
<azonenberg>
he's starting to work on an altera part
<digshadow>
rqou is? which part?
<azonenberg>
max v i think
<kc8apf>
digshadow: unrelated, have you looked at the delay reports ReportGen provides?
<digshadow>
just tried 14.7 same issues
<digshadow>
kc8apf: no, I haven't looked at timing reports in detail yet
<digshadow>
timing and power both need to be looked at a little more carefully
<digshadow>
I was hoping tcl was going to be easy win, but I think not at this point
<rqou>
goddammit azonenberg i wasn't ready to announce that yet
<rqou>
but yes, I'm starting to work on max v
<rqou>
in English, not in French :P
<digshadow>
rqou: what is the primary motivation for max v?
<rqou>
small, cheap, nonvolatile, and potentially some other things awaiting confirmation
<rqou>
simple 2D tile architecture
<azonenberg>
Plus not a lot of people looking at altera yet
<rqou>
big advantages: many of the parts appear to be software-limited
<rqou>
supposedly has distributed ram
<rqou>
built-in user flash
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<kc8apf>
digshadow: looks like the speedprint tool provides per-block delay information for any part
<rqou>
architecture appears almost identical to max-ii
<rqou>
which I've seen in "could use RE" devices at least once
<rqou>
also at some point if we can come up with some major insight into how to fuzz cpld interconnects i would like to quickly sweep through all the classic product term cplds
<rqou>
i.e. xc9500{xl}, max{3,7,9}000, etc.
<rqou>
just for RE, not for synthesis
<kc8apf>
aha, ISE uses a separate toolchain for CPLDs
<rqou>
yeah
<azonenberg>
There's almost no commonality past synthesis
<azonenberg>
xst -> cpldfit -> hprep6 basically
<kc8apf>
yeah, cpldfit GYD files seem to be the most interesting
<rqou>
azonenberg: what about your suggestion about fuzzing on hardware?
<rqou>
how would you plan to do that?
<azonenberg>
kc8apf: yeah i was trying not to look at intermdiates
<azonenberg>
it just seemed legally less dubious
<azonenberg>
rqou: basically try random zia values (once we knew what power/ground were and avoided shorts)
<kc8apf>
per the ISE docs, many of the intermediate files are there explicitly to enable third-party tools
<azonenberg>
and poke various GPIOs and DFFs and see when stuff comes out 0 vs 1
<azonenberg>
oh?
<azonenberg>
citation?
<azonenberg>
very interested in that
<kc8apf>
NetGen is a command line executable that reads Xilinx® design files as input, extracts
<kc8apf>
third-party simulation, equivalence checking, and static timing analysis tools.
<kc8apf>
data from the design files, and generates netlists that are used with supported
<azonenberg>
that doesnt talk about bitstream gen etc though
<kc8apf>
there's no one place they say "use these things"
<azonenberg>
so a bit sketchy to me still
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<cr1901_modern>
azonenberg: What's the official stance of building ##openfpga on Windows? Not-supported? Not-tested-but-should-work?
<cr1901_modern>
I have a few Windoze-improvements I could send as a PR, but will need some time to do them
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