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<steakpizza> nice! What are the undocumented parts which is required to get the partial reconfigurability working without vivado. I'm assuming using this vivado flow with prjxray, one can reverse engineer it?
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<kc8apf> just generating partial bitstreams in general
<kc8apf> currently, we can generate them from a very simple language (FASM) that sets individual configuration bits
<kc8apf> see minitests/roi_harness
<kc8apf> if you're willing to write out the whole config mem that way, you're good to go
<kc8apf> right now, we have only documented the CLBs. Documenting IOBs would be a bit help. Otherwise, building something better than FASM to describe placed-and-routed components and convert them into configuration memory frames would be useful.
<kc8apf> heading off for the night
<azonenberg> awygle: So i managed to get this PHY to transmit 1000base-T in master mode with autonegotiation disabled
<azonenberg> in theory this should mean TX only, no RX
<azonenberg> and thus no echoes to worry about
<azonenberg> but i'm having trouble getting a nice PAM5 eye out of it
<steakpizza> kc8apf: cool cool. i'll bug you again once I do some digging on the things you mentioned
<azonenberg> I'm falling back to 100baseTX to poke around more and found some bugs in my eye analysis tool
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<azonenberg> awygle: ok something is wrong here
<azonenberg> I'm not seeing differential signals, wtf
<awygle> lol that's not ideal
<azonenberg> I have probes on B+ and B- of my test rig
<azonenberg> and i am seeing signals of equal polarity and similar amplitude
<azonenberg> wtfff
<azonenberg> gotta look into this more
<azonenberg> let me sanity check on tragiclaser since i know that works
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<azonenberg> Soooo my initial crosstalk measurements are probably invalid
<azonenberg> I have to investigate this more
<shapr> azonenberg: are you building your own gigE thing for work or fun?
<azonenberg> shapr: I'm building a gig-e switch for fun
<azonenberg> this is some signal integrity verification work for it
<shapr> I sometimes work on writing my own SIP stack, but a 1000base-T switch is off into what I consider hardcored.
<shapr> hardcore*
<azonenberg> This is 100baseTX from the KSZ9031 on starshipraider into tragiclaser
<shapr> how do you pick these names?
<azonenberg> Using the built in 20:1 probes at the input
<azonenberg> random word generator, mostly
<shapr> huh, neat
<azonenberg> starshipraider was chosen as "thief" + "mode of transportation"
<azonenberg> to be a futuristic version of the bus pirate
<azonenberg> awygle: ^
<azonenberg> So, that looks good
<azonenberg> note that CH1 and CH3 have opposite polarity
<azonenberg> And the differential (done with math in postprocessing) looks sane and has the +/- 1V amplitude we expect
<azonenberg> This is what i get with the KSZ9031 into my characterization board
<azonenberg> something is seriously wrong
<jn__> on the topic of names, tragiclaser could reasonably be the name of a destined-to-fail *optical* ethernet project :)
<balrog> azonenberg: btw not that you’re interested but did you see my mention of intel’s 10GBaseT PHY? Probably the only documented one that exists and even it has a control MCU that requires external firmware
<azonenberg> Not interested but good to know
<azonenberg> gaaaaah
<azonenberg> ok i found the bug
<azonenberg> Aaaand i have to respin the board
<azonenberg> awygle: all measurements from before are invalid
<azonenberg> tl;dr I put the magnetics in the schematic wrong (media side to the SMAs and chip side to the RJ45)
<azonenberg> But i assembled it correctly
<awygle> O no
<azonenberg> Which means that the magnetic is in 180 deg off from how it should be
<azonenberg> the center tap is connected to one of the data pairs
<azonenberg> etc
<azonenberg> everything is borked and i'm not actually doing truly differential measurements
<azonenberg> Rework is possible, but easier to respin
<awygle> Yeah that's not good
<awygle> Whoops
<azonenberg> actually
<azonenberg> Hold on a bit
<azonenberg> I'm not so sure
<azonenberg> ok yeah
<azonenberg> its wrong
<azonenberg> Not only is it wrong, the line card i spent so much time on layout for is wrong
<azonenberg> Welp
<gruetzkopf> ouch. been there, done that., sadly
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<azonenberg> gruetzkopf: good news is the shift is only one pin i think
<azonenberg> So layout shouldnt be hard to fix
<azonenberg> And, most importantly
<azonenberg> i found the bug before actually fabbing said line card :p
<azonenberg> On the plus side both the magnetic and RJ45 footprints are now pcb proven
<awygle> three categories: PCB Unproven, PCB Proven, and the rare PCB Disproven
<whitequark> lol
<rqou> whitequark how do you know so many people with bad relationships with their parents?
<whitequark> rqou: that question doesn't make any sense to me.
<whitequark> the question that does is "how come I know anyone at all whose parents weren't scumbags"
<whitequark> (I'm not sure)
* whitequark thinks
<rqou> wtf why so negative?
<whitequark> because lifie?
<whitequark> *life
<whitequark> just... realize that your own relationship with your parents is highly atypical
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<azonenberg> awygle: ok so, fixing the sch
<azonenberg> Now, labeling the schematic symbol more clearly :p
<rqou> whitequark: um, IME many people in the Chinese/ABC community have ok/good relationships with their parents?
<rqou> although unfortunately the behavior that you quote-tweeted from Fiora is also not uncommon
<whitequark> rqou: then ABC community has its shit together more than usual I guess?
<whitequark> although I wonder just how much of it is just people keeping things secret for as long as possible and killing themselves when it becomes too unbearable
<whitequark> optics are misleading
<rqou> hmm maybe
<rqou> that is also not unheard of
<whitequark> rqou: oh btw the failure crate is hitting 1.0 soon
<whitequark> I'm not sure how I missed that
<whitequark> there's already an 1.0 version in the repo, it just doesn't seem published yet
<rqou> hmm nice
<azonenberg> awygle: going to have to reroute most of the diffpairs
<azonenberg> i think
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<awygle> rqou: the behavior quote tweeted from fiora is not indicative of a good relationship with one's parents
<rqou> yeah, i didn't say everything was all perfect
<awygle> didn't mean to imply you did. but a lot of people (hello, younger me) don't realize that's not ok
<azonenberg> awygle: hmmmm
<azonenberg> it looks like we arent going to be full clamshell
<azonenberg> there's now a 2-pin offset
<azonenberg> if we want to keep the passives lined up
<azonenberg> That should be OK but it does mean a lot of layout has to be redone on the switch
<awygle> azonenberg: less crosstalk? lol
<azonenberg> lol maybe? but more to the point, we wont be turning our differential-mode signals into common-mode ones anymore :D
<awygle> a pita for sure but hopefully you can drag a lot of stuff without redoing it entirely
<azonenberg> Yes i think i can save the rj45 escape routing and all of the phy stuff
<azonenberg> just a few things around the magnetics need redoing
<azonenberg> the board as it stands hooks D+ and tap to the diffpair
<azonenberg> and terminates D-
<azonenberg> You can probably see how that ends badly
<awygle> Indeed
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<azonenberg> awygle: also 8 in-lb is too much for SMT edge launch SMAs
<azonenberg> i forgot to mention earlier
<azonenberg> i had to reflow one of the connectors after i torqued it on :p
<azonenberg> cracked the solder
<whitequark> maybe just bad reflow?
<whitequark> you've said you're on the bottom edge of the profile
<whitequark> and connectors have high thermal mass
<azonenberg> whitequark: no, i was turning *very* hard to torque it on
<whitequark> hm ok
<azonenberg> i actually hot-aired this board rather than using the oven
<whitequark> ahh interesting.
<whitequark> i wonder if it still cracked with leaded
<azonenberg> Because of the awkward geometry
<whitequark> oh
<azonenberg> 8 in-lb is a LOT
<azonenberg> for something that tiny
<azonenberg> apparently brass SMAs are recommended to be 3-5
<azonenberg> So i'm gonna try and get a 3 in-lb torque wrench and try that
<whitequark> azonenberg: random realization: with vapor phase reflow i can freely mix leaded and lead-free
<azonenberg> still not on the same joint
<whitequark> sure
<whitequark> hm
<azonenberg> SAC BGA + SnPb paste = weird intermetallics with terrible mechanical properties
<azonenberg> which is the primary reason I use SAC everywhere
<whitequark> ohhhhh right you add paste when soldering BGAs
<whitequark> I completely missed that
<whitequark> well drat I'll have to go Pb-free
<azonenberg> Seems like all of the lower torque wrenches are $$$$
<azonenberg> hundreds of USD
<azonenberg> Even for relatively loose tolerance
<daveshah> are they really needed for GbE frequencies?
<azonenberg> daveshah: i'm thinking in general not for this board specifically
<daveshah> I know people use them for serious uWave/mmWave stuff
<daveshah> makes sense
<azonenberg> Hand tight is probably in the 2-4 in-lb range judging by how it "feels" compared to the 8 in-lb wrench
<azonenberg> So definitely not too tight but might be too loose
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<kc8apf> 2-4 in-lb is tiny.
* kc8apf recently installed cylinder head bolts at 75 ft-lbs
<awygle> azonenberg: how the hell did you torque a connector off a board with 8 in-lbs lol
<awygle> i mean yeah 5 in-lbs is better but damn
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<kc8apf> huh. "hand tight" depends on diameter of knob and smooth vs knurled. http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/283347.pdf
<awygle> that makes total sense
<kc8apf> for SMA is 1/4" diameter and knurled. So, max torque by hand should be 19 in-oz
<awygle> say what you will about the military but they sure do have standards and reports for damn near everything
<kc8apf> I'm saving that one
<kc8apf> very handy when designing controls
<kc8apf> I can't comprehend how 8 in-lb can crack solder
<azonenberg> it may have been an incompletely heated joint in the first place
<azonenberg> This was hot aired rather than oven soldered
<awygle> it should have been torquing almost entirely against the board. if the solder joint failed, it failed in, like, compression i guess?
<awygle> or maybe i'm picturing the wrong kind of edge mount SMA
<awygle> but yeah, "bad joint" is a good hypothesis
<awygle> do you have a break-over wrench or ... the other kind whose name i can't recall?
<kc8apf> beam?
<kc8apf> never use a beam wrench on a connector
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<awygle> mm no that's not it
<awygle> there's a kind that wraps around the connector and the shaft is parallel to the cable and you twist the wrench
<awygle> dunno the name though, oh well
<kc8apf> hub-less
<awygle> break over is way better is my point
<kc8apf> hmm, RF people call them torque screwdrivers
<kc8apf> odd
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<azonenberg> This is an edge mount, it failed in tension
<azonenberg> probably insufficient solder?
<azonenberg> idk though
<azonenberg> in any case the wrench i have is a T-handle "screwdriver"
<azonenberg> with a spring holding the handle to the shaft and a sloped ratchet mechanism that cams out at 8 in-lb
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<azonenberg> awygle: may 25th eta on rev 0.2 magnetics characterization board
<awygle> sweeeeeeeeeeeeet
<azonenberg> parts and stencils ordered
<azonenberg> I havent redone the line card yet, holding off until i get these test results back
<azonenberg> ...
<azonenberg> and i think i may have just found another bug
* azonenberg facepalm
<gruetzkopf> "bottom view"
<pie___> would it have been prevented by an expressive type szstem
<azonenberg> No
<azonenberg> i think i forgot that ethernet diffpairs arent all on adjacent pins
<awygle> fearless pcb design
<azonenberg> i'm used to magjacks that bring out pairs adjacent
<azonenberg> good news is, this will be easily reworkable
<azonenberg> let me test though
<azonenberg> (its too late to fix, the board is already at fab)
<awygle> i wonder if somebody better at this kind of stuff than me would find it easy to make a "smart" pcb tool using machine learning or whatever
<pie___> superglue a female-male converter cable \o/
<pie___> awygle, machine learning? whyyyyy
<awygle> look up your parts by part number, find datasheets for them, scrape them for pinouts, make sure you're not doing something stupid
<pie___> oh.
<pie___> but then he said > make sure you're not doing something stupid <
<awygle> yeah not like "my neural network does routing". just as an assistent lol
* pie___ should be ignored, likes to hate on ML
<awygle> me too but i don't know a better word here
* pie___ prefers constructed models
<awygle> it's not really "big pile of statistics" machine learning
<awygle> it's OCR plus like, fuzzy matching
<awygle> and a bunch of APIs
<azonenberg> fffuuu
<azonenberg> welp
<azonenberg> So i guess i need to respin AGAIN
<azonenberg> i dont want to keep throwing dodgy rework onto this board since its a metrology fixture
<azonenberg> That was a waste of $100ish :(
<awygle> :(
<azonenberg> good news is, no component moves
<pie___> azonenberg, couldnt you just make a patch cable?
<azonenberg> so the new stencils should still be valid
<azonenberg> pie___: yes but i'm trying to validate EMC performance through the whole system
<pie___> ah
<azonenberg> as well as have signed-off PCB-proven footprint and schematic symbols for the final design
<azonenberg> i dont want the first use of the fixed footpritn to be on a $$$$ board
<azonenberg> footprint*
<azonenberg> the worst part is, this slipped through my design review both times
<pie___> i mean how much does, 5cm of CAT count?
<pie___> s/,//
<pie___> *cat5/whatever
<azonenberg> the issue is more, the escape routing of the rj45
<azonenberg> i want to be verifying actual layout the real board will use
<azonenberg> If this wasn't a metrology platform i wouldnt care
<gruetzkopf> ah, mixed up pins 3456?
<azonenberg> Yes
<azonenberg> i've made ethernet cables, i know the correct pinout
<azonenberg> i just somehow missed it when i made the pcb
<awygle> https://github.com/hgarrereyn/OCRaaP this is not at all what i was googling for but it's pretty cool lol
<azonenberg> (who in their right mind ever thought that moving diffpairs around like that was ok???)
<azonenberg> Also, the blue pair has polarity reversed (solid color is _P and white is _N)
<pie___> azonenberg, probably e*n*g*i*n*e*e*r*i*n*g r*e*a*s*o*n*s
<gruetzkopf> there's another RJ that has pairs side-by-side
<gruetzkopf> the 1-inside-2 thing comes from 2-line phones being interoperable with 1-line sockets and vice versa
<pie___> re: sum ml stoof
<awygle> hm i like the idea of just doing "take n" for training
<awygle> this is sort of cool but it's all gradient descent, seems like it would have serious local-minima problems
<awygle> then again, i also a) don't know haskell and b) don't know machine learning. so it's hard to see what this is being contrasted against, and how it's better.
<awygle> would be interesting to see something like this in rust, which i could actually read effectively lol
<pie___> awygle, well, i guess "usual caveats apply"
<pie___> i cant read it too well either
<pie___> well, mostly skimmed, on my <understand later pile>
<pie___> i think the main thing might not be the actual optimization method but the method of building the model?
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<pie___> idk what this looks like usually in any other framework
<awygle> yeah, it talks at the end about how you can use many optimizers
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<azonenberg> awygle: pushing out the v0.3 respin to oshpark now
<azonenberg> Fingers crossed this is the last bug :p
<awygle> azonenberg: yeah i was gonna say lol
<azonenberg> in retrospect, the attenuators acting funny should have tripped me up earlier
<azonenberg> i thought it was just that the attenuators were differential mode and the bad magnetics were screwing me up
<azonenberg> It's funny, this is the first time i've respun a board this much in years if not ever
<azonenberg> i know i've done two revs of a few designs
<azonenberg> Three is unheard of
<azonenberg> and there's no active components or power supply on it
<azonenberg> it's one of the simplest designs i've done in a long time
<pie___> awygle, if i was going to quote a specific sentence i think this might be it, but idk "This is the entire crux of this approach, and lets us not only draw from mathematical models directly, but also combine and reshape models in arbitrary ways just by using normal function composition and application, instead of being forced into a rigid compositional model."
<awygle> i'm sorta relieved that the attenuators aren't bad since i gave you the numbers for them :p
<awygle> pie___: yeah i guess i'm missing the "rigid compositional model" side of that comparison
<awygle> well, i clipped this, and five years from now when i have time to learn ML and get annoyed by "rigid compositional models" i'll... have forgotten it existed :p but maybe i'll remember it and discover an alternative
<pie___> awygle, yeah i asked the author on irc, waiting for reply :D
<azonenberg> awygle: also
<azonenberg> i figured out how to make a KSZ9031 send 1000base-T in master mode with autonegotiation disabled
<azonenberg> as in, single direction PAM5 data
<azonenberg> Tried to plot a PAM5 eye on tragiclaser and it was pretty unreadable, but i dont know if that's just b/c i used a lower quality magnetic there (cant rmemeber if it was rated for gig)
<azonenberg> I also dont know how well the clock recovery code in my eye analysis works for PAM
<azonenberg> I've tested it on NRZ and MLT3
<azonenberg> It's also possible my scope doesnt have the bandwidth :p
<azonenberg> (they recommend 1+ GHz for characterizing gig-e)
<azonenberg> Also TIL, gig-e over copper has FEC
<azonenberg> The PAM5 is basically PAM4 with an extra symbol thrown in that used somehow for error correction
<awygle> that's interesting but pretty unsurprising
<azonenberg> well apparently its not actually a standalone fec layrer
<azonenberg> the trellis code has some invalid symbols and automatically corrects them
<azonenberg> but it's basically a fec-included line code
<azonenberg> Higher-end baseT PHYs are black magic to me, but i can wrap my head around 100baseTX or the optical line codes just fine
<gruetzkopf> i need to build a HDB3 line code/decoder
<awygle> I need to build a cheeseburger. I haven't eaten lunch yet.
<gruetzkopf> (help me, i'm deployinh a new ISDN network in 2018 ;)
<zkms> what's ISDN?
<genii> zkms: What there was before DSL
<gruetzkopf> the integrated services digital network
<gruetzkopf> before and alongside DSL
<gruetzkopf> the first DSL technologies were used for ISDN access
<gruetzkopf> later DSL modes are used for ATM, and current ones for plain ethernet
<awygle> lol atm
<azonenberg> my parents internet is 768 x 128 Kbps ADSL
<azonenberg> running PPP over ATM
<azonenberg> they may have gotten a speed boost since last time i checked, not sure
<pie___> azonenberg, do your parents know this
<azonenberg> i think it was 864 x 160 or something now?
<azonenberg> pie___: they're just happy it works
<pie___> how could you do this to them (jk(
<genii> gruetzkopf: I have some old ISDN endpoint things here from when the call center in our building closed, if they are of any use to you
<azonenberg> gruetzkopf: there is no tv cable in the house
<azonenberg> (built in the 1930s)
<azonenberg> And they're a very long distance from the nearest DSLAM
<genii> If anyone wants any of this old telco stuff maybe ping me https://i.imgur.com/k80z4OH.jpg
<pie___> huh. :D
<jn__> i want the flower pots :P
<jn__> just kidding
<genii> heh
<genii> Crap builds up around here faster than i can get rid of it
<shapr> I know that feeling
<awygle> mm fed
<pie___> awygle, build a burger workshop
<pie___> or, *build-a-burger apparently
<awygle> bad idea: irc<->mailing list bridge
<pie___> can we have mailing lists, except irc
<awygle> just thinking about communication, and what methods i code as "serious"
<awygle> (email and github)
<shapr> I almost never use email
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<rqou> woo, i got to go to my fancy ceremony :P
<rqou> now i just want my fancy piece of paper to go with it :P :P
<jn__> rqou: the fancy square hat ceremony?
<rqou> yes
<rqou> i assume europeans don't do that?
<jn__> nice
<rqou> (iirc i read that germany does not do this?)
<jn__> i'm not actually sure
<pointfree> The mortarboard comes from the UK.
<rqou> i'm aware
<rqou> Cambridge iirc?
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<Bike> doesn't cambridge give you a sword
<rqou> i thought that was a myth?
<Bike> it better not be a myth
<rqou> apparently schools in finland give you a sword
<rqou> for a doctorate
<Bike> that's what i'm about
<awygle> congrats rqou
<pointfree> Students used to wear the cap and gown everyday. It indicated to law enforcement that they are students (university campuses are/were autonomous and not under the jurisdiction of the state). It has origins going back to ancient Greece, Rome, and also the Anglican Church.
<Bike> what do you mean not under the jurisdiction
<pointfree> Congrats rqou!
<Bike> cap and gown is kind of a weird license to kill
<Bike> also yes congratulations
<rqou> thanks everyone
<pointfree> Bike: In a lot of countries universities have their own police and have some sovereignty from the state, although this seems to have eroded over the ages. Still, Boston or Cambridge police is not allowed to police people on Harvard campus for instance. That's the responsibility of Harvard police.
<azonenberg> pointfree: interesting, because at RPI the campus public safety officers were the *primary* LE
<azonenberg> But city police still had jurisdiction
<azonenberg> They just didn't routinely patrol there unless called
<awygle> yeah berkeley has UCPD
<Bike> i'm used to universities having their own police, but that seemed more like a pragmatic measure since a campus is a small city full of young adults
<pointfree> I remember once, a Cambridge police officer was hassling people on Harvard campus. My father called the Harvard Police and they promptly got that officer off the campus.
<rqou> lol
<awygle> all right i have a very stupid question
<awygle> other than "does my processor fit" and "do i have enough PCIe lanes, USB ports, etc", is there a substantive reason to pick one motherboard over another?
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<rqou> how many corners get cut? :P
<pie___> as an EE you should know, as a customer, good fucking luck? xD
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<sorear> pointfree: I can’t remember if I asked if you’re still in the area
<pointfree> sorear: I live in San Mateo, CA
<rqou> still in the expensive AF apartment?
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<sorear> ah.
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<kc8apf> awygle: they all mostly suck
<kc8apf> the things OEMs do to AMI Aptio....
* awygle nods and smiles
<rqou> needs moar coreboot
<reportingsjr> awygle: maybe if you're going to overclock stuff?
<pointfree> rqou: Yeah I'm bleeding money but I'd don't really feel like moving. The problem is temporarily solved by not checking Mint.
<rqou> ##openfpga dorm? :P
<kc8apf> rqou: I'll settle for Linuxboot
<awygle> "supports RGB light strips in 7 colors" SOLD
<gruetzkopf> genii: if that's G703 over HDSL it may indeed be useful
<gruetzkopf> which continent are you on?
<genii> North America... Toronto, Canada, more specifically
<gruetzkopf> RWTH aachen has campuswache, which has police-like duties on campus
<pointfree> I'm also renting 120sqft of storage for books.
<awygle> i can't tell if i should be looking at JEDEC or "A-XMP OC MODE" RAM speeds...
<pointfree> Is anyone here going to Bay Area Maker Faire this weekend?
<kc8apf> I'll probably be there on saturday
<kc8apf> tinyFPGA has a table
<rqou> gruetzkopf: it's probably different in European universities because you don't have our drugs/alcohol/partying culture
<gruetzkopf> wouldn't say that
<gruetzkopf> but RWTH doesn't have a closed campus, it's all over the town
<jn__> we have a dedicated street for students partying :)
<jn__> kind of
<rqou> we do too :P
<rqou> it's called "frat row" (cc awygle)
<sorear> I expect Harvard to be a bit unusual with the “predates the USA” thing
<pointfree> kc8apf: Cool! I'll probably go on Saturday too. I'll look for the tinyFPGA table. I'm looking to pick the brains of Cypress engineers at their booth.
<awygle> oh god the newegg shopping cart timed out, i'm gonna end up buying two motherboards...
<kc8apf> *sigh* it's that a sign of the times. Cyress having a booth at Maker Faire
<awygle> they had one at the seattle "mini maker faire" also
<awygle> selling heavily-subsidized psoc dev boards
<rqou> sorear: not Oxford with its "predates proper written records?"
<tinyfpga> pointfree: stop by and checkout the demos
<tinyfpga> pointfree: I’m finishing up the demos, handouts, and some giveaways now
<sorear> rqou: did somebody mention Oxford upthread?
<kc8apf> tinyfpga: I'm serious about the cargo van. It's been to Sac before and I have very little happening this week.
<pointfree> awygle: The PSoC 5LP/4 boards were free/gratis at the Bay Area Maker Faire last time I was there.
<gruetzkopf> genii: apparently they're T1 only, no e-carrier :(
<awygle> pointfree: huh, they were like 10$ at the seattle one
<pointfree> awygle: That's how much they cost online. Bay Area Maker Faire does not allow selling things, but you can give away freebies.
<rqou> yeah I'm not going to maker faire
<awygle> ahh that makes sense
<jn__> unrelated electronics question: what's a good op-amp for low frequency (probably <1kHz most of the time) stuff in the 0V-15V range?
<genii> gruetzkopf: Guess I should probably just send them to the e-waste then :(
<jn__> TL084CN sounds alright from the datasheet and is cheap
<reportingsjr> jn__: there are a million
<reportingsjr> tl072 is also very popular
<pie___> jn__, whatcha doin? :D
<jn__> ok, i'll pick something
<awygle> what's your figure of merit? do you care about power consumption for example?
<jn__> pie___: i'm going to build a modular synth
<pie___> oooh
<gruetzkopf> on 100mmx160mm PCBs? ;)
<Ultrasauce> cool i got one in the tubes also, which designs are you looking at?
<jn__> i did some cheap, crappy casework last weekend
<Ultrasauce> tl074 is perfectly sufficient for basically everything in that application
<gruetzkopf> there's cheap-ish cases for eurocards
<jn__> damn, 160mm won't fit
<pie___> alternatively; "AAAH ANALOG MAGIC. WITCHCRAFT. *runs away screaming*"
<gruetzkopf> too long?
<jn__> gruetzkopf: yes
<pie___> jn__, use more lube
<jn__> pie___: o_o
<pie___> or duct tape.
<jn__> Ultrasauce: i've been reading parts of this series: https://hackaday.com/2015/09/11/logic-noise-playing-in-tune-with-an-exponential-vco/
<gruetzkopf> sadly bantam TT is pretty expensive, else they'd be great connectors for this application
<gruetzkopf> are you going to use 1/4" or 3.5mm jacks?
<Ultrasauce> jn__: cool. the exponential converter alone is a rabbit hole. i don't recommend the linked design
<jn__> gruetzkopf: 3.5mm
<jn__> (for doepfer compatibility, although i probably won't buy commercial modules anytime soon)
<awygle> whelp, ended up placing *three* newegg orders. sweet.
<gruetzkopf> ouch.
<jn__> Ultrasauce: thx
<Ultrasauce> also prioritize build a vcf. they're so damn fun to play with
* jn__ nods
<Ultrasauce> I'll put a cork in the advice spray for now, hit me up if youre stuck or whatever
<awygle> whew, successfully cancelled 2/3
<awygle> is RAM super expensive because of blockchains too?
<azonenberg> awygle: why would it be?
<awygle> idk, but it seems to be super expensive
<azonenberg> GDDRx i could see being hogged for ethereum mining
<azonenberg> But i thought miners normally had a zillion GPUs and then a bare bones cpu with minimal ram
<pie___> why have block ram when you can have block chains
<awygle> I just want 32gb of ddr4 for less than 300$ that can do 3200MHz lol
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<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> awygle: i just want vivado to not use 75 GB of RAM
<awygle> azonenberg: use smaller parts
<azonenberg> Sorry, 55 GB - 75 is the overall system ram usage
<azonenberg> awygle: Lol
<azonenberg> the sad part is, this is the *idle* usage, i'm not even doing a P&R now
<azonenberg> guessing it just isn't GCing
<awygle> do you remember the thing a while back where people were saying that if your ram usage wasn't 100% you were leaving performance on the table?
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<azonenberg> awygle: This means, if you have apps hogging memory for no good reason (e.g. java hasnt GC'd stuff yet)
<awygle> what happened to that? it seemed like a sound argument but I don't hear it anymore
<azonenberg> that's wasting memory that could be caching other stuff
<azonenberg> Modern OSes dont show cached memory as "used"
<azonenberg> in general, anything that isnt allocated to an app is gonna be used as a cache of some kind
<awygle> linux for sure used to. maybe they changed it because people were freaking out about using too much RAM lol
<jn__> classic top shows only truly unused memory as unused, AFAIK
<azonenberg> yeah htop is usefully accurate
<jn__> htop shows it like azonenberg says
<Ultrasauce> jn__: found a couple of my extremely unmusical recordings http://xn--d-bga.su/getawayfromthebeam.ogg http://xn--d-bga.su/drops.ogg just breadboard+reverb pedal
<Ultrasauce> two oscillators and vcf
* jn__ listens
<jn__> this could be film/theater/background music instead of "listening" music
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<jn__> i think a large part of making it sound musical is rhythm, so i'll think about getting/building some sort of sequencer at some point
<Ultrasauce> yeah even just a decade counter+pots goes a long way
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