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<bofh_>
pie_: are there even still any 80s telco sats in use? pretty sure in 30-35 years you'd run out of hydrazine for stationkeeping in GEO (so you'd wind up drifting into a geosynch but not stationary orbit, significantly decreasing your utility from a telco POV), and that's *well* past the lifetime of LEO sats.
<pie_>
bofh_, well now im that much smarter
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<awygle>
ideally they've moved up into a graveyard orbit
<awygle>
you're not supposed to leave junk in GEO
<awygle>
although apparently through 2005 only 1/3 of satellites succeeded in an orbit raising maneuver at EOL
<awygle>
which is kind of pathetic
<pie_>
thats pretty bad
<zkms>
relatable tbh
<awygle>
although 2005-2011 has apparently done better
* awygle
is just quoting wikipedia into irc
<pie_>
but, space is hard i guess
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<Bike>
sometimes i think satellite engineering must be really good because it lasts for years with no maintenance and such
<awygle>
i mean yeah space is hard but if you can do stationkeeping you can do a graveyard raise
<Bike>
and then i hear something like that
<awygle>
suonds to me like they just got greedy and pushed it too far lol
<kc8apf>
isn't the international agreement to deorbit in 20 years?
<awygle>
i think that's only LEO sats
<kc8apf>
that makes sense
<kc8apf>
I never worked on anything other than LEO
<awygle>
(also google says it's 25)
<awygle>
that's nonsense-long btw. it should be like... 5 years after end of service life
<kc8apf>
it allows for passive deorbiting
<awygle>
yeah, i'm arguing that's not good enough
<kc8apf>
which is dumb
<awygle>
i wonder where the break point is at which 25 is no longer the rule
<shapr>
awygle: recently, NASA got approval to use an FPGA for the first time
<shapr>
sufficiently space hardened and expensive
<shapr>
I forget the brand name, I'll ask my NASA friend
<kc8apf>
there are a few different rad-hard and space-rated FPGAs
<kc8apf>
moderately common in commercial sats
<awygle>
microsemi and older xilinx, typically
<kc8apf>
atmel had a few
<awygle>
you mean actel?
<awygle>
oh huh, no, you mean atmel
<awygle>
TIL
<awygle>
"FreeRAM", excellent
<kc8apf>
yeah, looks like Microchip is dropping those parts though
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<shapr>
awygle: my friend told me it's actel
<kc8apf>
interestingly, they have a rad-tol ATmega128
<awygle>
kc8apf: yeah that's really intriguing
<awygle>
shapr: ah ok. actel is microsemi now :)
<awygle>
is microchip now
<kc8apf>
Arduino in SPAAAAAAACE
<shapr>
yay!
<awygle>
i guess technically that deal hasn't gone through yet. so they're still microsemi for like another week
<shapr>
My friend was in town a few months back to go over a bunch of RFPs
<shapr>
NASA is funding ideas for space instruments, vaguely DARPA style
<awygle>
kc8apf: iirc GOMSpace uses the atmega? or it might be an AVR32 or whatever that weird arch is
<shapr>
so she was checking the proposals for sanity
<kc8apf>
just don't take Kinetis parts anywhere near radiation
<awygle>
lol really?
<awygle>
that's fun
<kc8apf>
we put K20s in a beam. hard latch up
<awygle>
how beam are we talking?
<kc8apf>
can't remember which facility we used. It was targeting a LEO application
<awygle>
to quote a former boss, "my maiden aunt can tolerate 5 krad"
<kc8apf>
probably UC Davis
<shapr>
now that I think of it, my friend's expertise is in heliophysics, she built a faraday cup and now she's working on ... something way more complicated
<shapr>
getting close to the sun may be a more 'energetic' problem
<awygle>
look at kc8apf with his fancy calibrated university facilities :p
<awygle>
we used medical linacs for the most part
<kc8apf>
that team loved to spend money
<shapr>
did they get results?
<kc8apf>
built 3 full RF chambers for both near-field and far-field
<awygle>
protip - the FRAM MSP430s are absolutely killer for space
* shapr
follows kc8apf on twitter
* awygle
salivates
<awygle>
i would have killed for a far-field chamber
<shapr>
digital magnetic logic is the way to go
<kc8apf>
shapr: I'm not _that_ interesting. Those projects are long dead
<shapr>
kc8apf: I make my own decisions :-P
<kc8apf>
unless you count the trail of projects created as the team looked for funding
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<awygle>
sounds like the google startup ecosystem imported a lot of the bad parts of the real startup ecosystem :p
<shapr>
awygle: you ever read up on the purely magnetic computers that existed between vacuum tubes and semiconductors?
<awygle>
shapr: not really, although i'm familiar with rope core memory
<awygle>
and MRAM for that matter i guess
<kc8apf>
awygle: Greg Wyler was a decent salesman
<awygle>
kek
<awygle>
former bosses used to joke that Greg Wyler had huge.... spectrum allocations.
<awygle>
(read in monty python voice)
<kc8apf>
yup
<kc8apf>
he used that as his main bartering chip
<kc8apf>
he lacked the leadership to actually deliver anything to use that spectrum though
<awygle>
i was about to say "yeah i've heard that" and then i remembered i heard that _from you_
<kc8apf>
heh
<awygle>
speaking of, realized i missed you last weekend - whoops
<kc8apf>
turns out I wasn't there
<sorear>
digital magnetic logic is interesting because it kind of came too late
<awygle>
ah! alls well that ends not-my-fault then
<kc8apf>
I got my schedule wrong.
<awygle>
well, do or don't hit me up next time you're in town, as you like
<kc8apf>
gah. VCs will fund anything with blockchain in the description.
<kc8apf>
I could probably get funded for a blockchain built on blockchain
<shapr>
half the Haskell jobs floating around in blockchain
<shapr>
much as I love writing Haskell, I also prefer sanity
<sorear>
there was a guy at the local rust meetup last month who said his work was haskell on the blockchain. i quietly excused myself
<shapr>
it does pay money
<shapr>
very much money even
<shapr>
I'm just not convinced the blockchain is more than a fad
<awygle>
yeah i always argue with myself about how much i enjoy eating my principles when these things come through
<awygle>
invent blockchain that only FPGAs can do well. embed secret hack that halves compute time but requires FPGA reverse engineering. complete project x-ray.
* awygle
finally leaves the office
<sorear>
or I could just announce a blockchain where the proofs of work are NFS relations for the DNSSEC root zone signing key
<qu1j0t3>
shapr | very much money even // lots of things pay money that i lack either self respect or motivation to go near
<qu1j0t3>
shapr: like you i have a low boredom threshold, too :)
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<azonenberg>
sorear: me and rqou joked about making a cryptocurrency where proof of work involved precomputing 2048-bit discrete logs
<azonenberg>
neither of us gave enough to actually do it
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<tnt>
implr: to interface with surplus GSM equipement being decommisionned.
<tnt>
atm the e1 card is more expensive than the BTS :p
<gruetzkopf>
i might be able to get a few hundred siemens BS241, though for funny frequencies
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<awygle>
sorta wanna spend five grand on an sla printer...
<azonenberg>
awygle: lol
* azonenberg
would be more interested in SLS
<gruetzkopf>
;)
<gruetzkopf>
okay, this is enough multi-square-meter schematic reading and kilo-relay-debugging for today
<awygle>
too expensive to feed
<awygle>
plastic is cheaper
<azonenberg>
awygle: yeah but i just dont have many uses for weird 3d geometry plastic
<azonenberg>
most of the time i either need panel enclosures etc that are essentially 2D (laser cutting is way faster and cheaper)
<awygle>
I think it would be fun to rapid prototype things like rack mount switches
<azonenberg>
or significant strength
<awygle>
or cat toys
<azonenberg>
honestly, i'd make it out of sheet metal
<azonenberg>
laser cut or waterjet the body then bend
<awygle>
if I needed strength I'd get Real Manufacturing (TM)
<awygle>
note that I don't have a laser cutter, or a water jet, or sheet metal bending tools. lol
<gruetzkopf>
i have a much bigger pressure washer than ben krasnow, should try building a water jet cutter
<azonenberg>
awygle: me neither
<azonenberg>
but i know a bunch of machinists :p
<gruetzkopf>
(the kind that needs a 32A 400V threephase socket PLUS (optionally) fuel for the heater)
<azonenberg>
lolr
<azonenberg>
oh, THAT kind of pressure washer
<azonenberg>
what's it for, cleaning aircraft runways? :p
<gruetzkopf>
no idea, looted it :D
<gruetzkopf>
(cleaning food processing rooms)
<gruetzkopf>
near-boiling water at that flow rate and pressure kills many many things.
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<awygle>
i just got an ad for a men's health magazine on twitter, and before the _ad_ ran there was _another ad_ for the Little Witch Academia video game.
<Bike>
ads are lucrative. it makes perfect sense for anyone airing video to sell ads. ads are a video, therefore
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<rqou>
very recently I've been getting a _ton_ of ads on birbsite
<rqou>
all for relatively mundane "everyday" items
<rqou>
i suspect somebody scraped the fact that i graduated
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<azonenberg>
rqou: lol
<azonenberg>
i just block all ads indscriminately
<azonenberg>
they can data mine whatever they want but it wont do them any good
<rqou>
yeah me too
<rqou>
still not as creepy as iirc Target and their pregnancy detection ML
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
yes i remember that story
<zkms>
i only block uninteresting/gross/boring ads
<zkms>
frankly, the bird site should be paying *me*, given how i've managed to refine their ad targeting
<azonenberg>
zkms: I consider any attempt to influence my behavior, other than by providing useful, unbiased, factual information
<azonenberg>
to be highly offensive
<Ultrasauce>
if anyone's getting paid for my attention it's gonna be me
<qu1j0t3>
anyone know of MCUs with UARTS configurable as wide as 15 bits?
<azonenberg>
qu1j0t3: a) why would you need that? b) sounds like a job for... FPGA-Man!
<rqou>
would it make sense for me to pay you a visit over memorial day weekend?
<rqou>
(since I'm burned out on Fanime and am not going)
<rqou>
or is everything on your end way too much of a mess right now?
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<shapr>
azonenberg: is cash useful information for biasing your behavior?
<pie_>
<azonenberg> zkms: I consider any attempt to influence my behavior, other than by providing useful, unbiased, factual information
<pie_>
<azonenberg> to be highly offensive
<whitequark>
is there even such a thing as "unbiased information"
<zkms>
i've blocked enough promoted accounts on twittre such that the ads i now get are for stuff like ice40 devboards, industrial gear oils, weird PCB materials, and R&S oscilloscopes and really i don't mind it that much
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<lain>
I don't spend enough time on twitter to train its adbots, so I just block the ads outright. When I don't, it's stuff like sportball which I have zero interest in, and that should be apparent from who I follow
<lain>
>exclusively follow electronics and security people
<lain>
>get ads for popular things that I show no obvious interest in
<lain>
it's clear the ad system doesn't even *try* until you start blocking things :/
<lain>
if they bothered to make it even a little bit intelligent it might actually make them money :P
<lain>
</rant>
<Ultrasauce>
oh is it time to waffle about epistemology? i'm in
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<Bike>
no way, go lower level. if i poke you on the shoulder in order to draw your attention am i influencing your behavior? does the poke constitute information? what if i poke you on the right shoulder then appear to your left to trick you
<Ultrasauce>
what about constructing that hypothetical situation
<Bike>
what if someone pokes you on the shoulder and you're aware that you're a character in a hypothetical situation
<Bike>
hm... If you were informed you were in a hypothetical situation, what would you do
<Ultrasauce>
I guess it depends on whose hypothesis
<Ultrasauce>
the nature of its construction and its purpose
<Ultrasauce>
I guess a thought complex enough to contain our entire universe might be a bit beyond our comprehension though
<Bike>
what if you were falsely informed you were part of a hypothetical situation
<Ultrasauce>
trying to determine the above would be even more of a losing battle in that case
<Ultrasauce>
hofstadter has a pretty decent argument for the universe being a mathematical construct
<Ultrasauce>
not that I'm necessarily on board with that line of thinking....the whole point of math is to be capable of representing the universe after all
<Ultrasauce>
no not hofstadter, schmidhuber. weird pair of people to mix up
<Bike>
weird germanic names
<Ultrasauce>
actually I guess a genesis-thought could potentially be quite simple from a reductionist viewpoint
<Ultrasauce>
perhaps all complexity is a consequence of our limited perception
<Ultrasauce>
what if the hypothetical situation in which we reside was created for the purpose of deception?
* shapr
checks the channel
<shapr>
man, I thought this was ##dependent for a sec
<balrog>
someone wrote an hdcp stripper firmware for the original NeTV and posted it on Tor
<balrog>
(specifically -- whoever worked on the Fairplay DRM bypass)
<rqou>
yeah of course
<rqou>
drm is teh dumb
<rqou>
offtopic: the accessible xbox controller is interesting
<rqou>
I'm a bit surprised the "anti-cheat" people okayed it
<Ultrasauce>
a generic 'button' port is a pretty neat addition
<Ultrasauce>
will hopefully cultivate some interesting diy efforts
<rqou>
historically a number of vidya i used to play would _explicitly_ block a11y solutions
<rqou>
so that macros couldn't use them to inject inputs
<Ultrasauce>
well and there's the whole peripheral licensing as a revenue stream thing
<rqou>
oh yeah, that too
<rqou>
those used to both override a11y concerns
<rqou>
hmm, i think server-side "machine learning" anti-cheat is what is making the old bullshit unnecessary
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<awygle>
NeTV2 is probably interesting to people who care about media
<awygle>
i have at least one friend who's getting it
<florolf>
we're looking at that for c3voc purposes
<rqou>
meanwhile I'd rather have something that just ingests a ton of hdmi and spits it out over Ethernet
<rqou>
so that you can escape the "weird AV world where everything you know is wrong" as fast as possible
<florolf>
rqou: actually, having this be a hdmi mux and hdbaset-bridge was the idea
<rqou>
no, not hdbaset
<rqou>
that's still in the weird "everything you know is wrong" universe
<Ultrasauce>
i dont think "encapsulating the weird av world where everything is wrong" in IP makes it any less that
<florolf>
rqou: well, that was the idea that someone threw around. i don't particularly care about the encapsulation
<rqou>
Ultrasauce: but all your tools like vlans, media converters, etc at least work now
<q3k>
you can buy cheap chinese hdmi to 'ethernet' adapters
<rqou>
yeah i have one
<q3k>
which end up translating hdmi into properietary ip streaming magic
<rqou>
it doesn't actually output Ethernet frames
<rqou>
oh, that must be a slightly more expensive version
<q3k>
no, the ones I know of (implr might know more) actually can plug into your network
<q3k>
it still isn't an actual standard, just whatever they came up with that they could implement cheaply
<rqou>
yeah, see, Chinese engineers also get it
<rqou>
"AV engineers" seem to all be either smoking something or just love weird special NIH
<q3k>
you also need to remember the requirements they have (low latency, low jittler, synchronization) are difficult/impossible to implement on an IP network
<rqou>
those are all possible if you're good?
<rqou>
e.g. synchronous Ethernet+1588 is really cool
<q3k>
it's doable on a point-to-point ethernet link, but the moment you connect that to your shitty QoSless ip backhaul you're fucked
<rqou>
oh yeah of course
<q3k>
also switch and router buffers will fuck things up, too
<florolf>
at least that's the one i've seen in a couple of similar devices
<G33KatWork>
some german PLC company (Beckhoff) does IP in their PLCs and they seem to be able to achieve realtime performance
<q3k>
florolf: ask inf (on freenode) or implr (here)
<q3k>
G33KatWork: i know the robot arm we have at hswaw also does ethernet but will basically e-stop if it doesn't get an ack within a few hundred us or so
<q3k>
G33KatWork: which is all cool when you have a dedicated l1/l2 for it, but falls apart otherwise
<rqou>
yeah these all sound like usable solutions that don't suck too much
<rqou>
unlike AV's "let's fuck up our scrambler and then force people to design AGC to work around it"
<q3k>
i think that's what we use yes
<G33KatWork>
q3k: I think Beckhoff does most of this stuff in hardware. There also seems to be software support for EtherCAT for the PRUs on a beaglebone black
<florolf>
G33KatWork: yeah, that looks familiar
<q3k>
speaking of networks, my laptop now speaks bgp and lives at 185.236.243.2
<Ultrasauce>
my thing uses h265
<q3k>
(well, I cheated a bit, and I aggregate the entire /24 on the edge, but eh)
<Ultrasauce>
turns out realtime interframe codecs are hard
<G33KatWork>
> 22/tcp open ssh
<G33KatWork>
OHAI
<q3k>
G33KatWork: hack me bro
<G33KatWork>
> Received disconnect from 185.236.243.2 port 22:2: Too many authentication failures
<G33KatWork>
hunter2 didn't work
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<q3k>
G33KatWork: i actually thought about this and have a whitelist-based pf ruleset
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<implr>
that robot is devicenet, not ethercat iirc
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<gruetzkopf>
i have beckhoff stuff around
<q3k>
beckhoff sounds like what I would say drunkenly to someone who pissed me off
<gruetzkopf>
wanted to sniff the 100M ethernet between the io cards (apparently LVDS)
<awygle>
huh, microsemi wants to use ReRAM apparently
<florolf>
rqou: i recently realized the 53128 stupid roboswitch has a 8051 in it, which the the ROM uses to run a repl, but no interface seems to be bonded out
<rqou>
i believe it
<florolf>
also, green ethernet mumble mumble
<rqou>
i don't know much about robo though
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<florolf>
the fun part is that the 8051 can also TX packets
<florolf>
the sad part is that it's an 8051
<florolf>
with some weird-ass banking scheme
<awygle>
lulz
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<awygle>
Fun With LEDs
<awygle>
but no // duty cycle 4% to not blind customers
<whitequark>
that's actually not too bad, it's more or less the same as what 8086 does
<whitequark>
compared to the insane scheme 8-bit PICs use
<lain>
"Compressing a 15-minute 4K video takes ~7.5 hours" on what hardware lol
<florolf>
whitequark: no, bank switching happens via P2 and is configurable via MMIO which is mapped into XRAM
<lain>
oh ok that was single-threaded vp9 enc or some such
<lain>
awygle: that's pretty neat
<whitequark>
florolf: yes that's XPAGE
<awygle>
lain: yeah i thought so. wish it was cloud-agnostic tho.
<whitequark>
different name, same mechanism
<whitequark>
lmk if you have any issues with it and e.g. sdcc, i had to figure out that shit recently
<awygle>
luv 2 build amazon into critical development loops
<florolf>
the weirdness is not in the switching itself, but in the configuration. i don't recall the details though, has been a couple of months since i last looked into it
<florolf>
but thanks
<lain>
awygle: lol yeahhhh
<kc8apf>
awygle: I've shifted focus from argo to airflow for running batch jobs
<kc8apf>
seems much more broadly supported
<awygle>
mk
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<awygle>
serverless (the framework), while terribly named, seems like a nice abstraction over FaaS platforms
<awygle>
and openfaas seems like a nice on-prem option
<awygle>
said the ignoramus
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<q3k>
serverless is basically going back to CGI
<q3k>
except the interface is a bit less terrible
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