<rqou>
azonenberg_work: my place is better, there are five couches :P
<azonenberg_work>
rqou: lol
<azonenberg_work>
Well, if we get all of us in one place at the same time we could definitely get some pretty nice work done
<azonenberg_work>
As long as i have a bit of advance notice so i'm in town that weekend
<azonenberg_work>
And, weather permitting, acquire noms for a BBQ
* azonenberg_work
goes back to slide deck
<rqou>
huh, so i needed some containers to store solvents or whatever, so i ordered some beakers off of eBay
<rqou>
TIL 50mL beakers are adorably smol
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<azonenberg_work>
You haven't seen 5s or 10s then, i guess
<azonenberg_work>
i use those for cleaning IC samples etc
<azonenberg_work>
they're like the size of a soda bottle cap
<rqou>
i've always used relatively large beakers in chem class
<whitequark>
10s are *incredibly* cute
<rqou>
don't you have surface tension issues with beakers that small?
<whitequark>
not really
<whitequark>
the orifice is not that smaller than 50s
<rqou>
hrm, i forgot to acquire watch glasses
<rqou>
i wonder when the DEA starts showing up? :P
<whitequark>
rqou: just move to RU :P
<whitequark>
have I mentioned here yet that I'll likely have to take my supplier up on the offer to sell me "no less than 3kg of bromine, pickup only"?
<rqou>
a) i'm not white b) i know absolutely zero russian
<rqou>
moving to RU might not be super great :P
<whitequark>
what's the problem with a)
<rqou>
isn't RU very unfriendly towards foreigners?
<whitequark>
no? RU is unfriendly towards caucasians, mostly
<whitequark>
yes, caucasians are nonwhite, and everyone else is basically white enough
<whitequark>
welcome to RU.
<whitequark>
actually, the entire DME airport has signs in chinese
<rqou>
i assume it's because china's got the $$$?
<whitequark>
dunno
<whitequark>
knowing zero russian *is* something of a problem though, i guess
<rqou>
although me being in china is even more hilarious because a) can't read chinese b) mandarin isn't very fluent c) cantonese isn't very fluent either
<rqou>
so everyone in the mainland thinks i'm from HK and everyone from HK thinks i'm from the mainland
<whitequark>
i bet you $100 russian is easier to learn than chinese
<whitequark>
;p
<rqou>
but but consonant clusters and noun declensions
<whitequark>
noun declensions: you don't strictly speaking *have* to know them
<whitequark>
everyone will understand you, you'll have an awful accent anyway, it doesn't matter if you can't into declensions
<whitequark>
consonant clusters are somewhat worse but compared to tones they're nothing
<rqou>
yeah, lots of people like to complain about declensions but they aren't objectively that hard
<rqou>
parts of it might be because americans _suck_ at teaching grammar in schools
<whitequark>
what americans *don't* suck at teaching in schools
<rqou>
i was going to say PE but they suck at teaching that too
<whitequark>
genuine question btw, i don't remember anyone ever praising american school within my hearing range
<whitequark>
some people think it's so bad it should be just completely abolished, which is a view so alien to me as to be incomprehensible
<rqou>
we don't suck at university-level classes i guess
<rqou>
but K-12? i haven't really heard any good things
<whitequark>
I have a book here that spends the entire preface ranting about how incredibly awful your orgchem courses are
<rqou>
oh i never took orgchem
<whitequark>
and I've heard it described as "an artificial bottleneck on the number of medschool students"
<awygle_m>
Comparative literature. In as much as you can be good at teaching such a thing.
<rqou>
my chem knowledge is just AP Chemistry (first university inorganic chem course, downgraded to high-school) + youtube videos
<whitequark>
unrelated: holy shit 360kph winds in Irma
<awygle_m>
My biochemistry knowledge is almost literally "cool shit whitequark has tweeted"
<whitequark>
that's 0.3 Mach
<whitequark>
how is this even real
<rqou>
it's not, it's fake news /s
* whitequark
stabs rqou
<whitequark>
awygle_m: i'm considering making a new website
<whitequark>
like, review.whitequark.org, with summaries of interesting biochem/biomed papers
<whitequark>
not in twitter or mastodon format, and with more expanded explanations and citations
<whitequark>
so that it's permanent
<whitequark>
i have so much stuck in twitter/mastodon but it's not easily accessible
<azonenberg_work>
whitequark: i thought ochem was just hard in general
<azonenberg_work>
are you saying american profs suck at teaching it?
<mtp>
american profs suck at teaching a lot of things
<whitequark>
azonenberg_work: apparently american profs require you to memorize megatons of shit you can just deduce from very basic rules
<mtp>
yeah
<whitequark>
like, things like resonance structures and reaction mechanisms
<azonenberg_work>
lol
<azonenberg_work>
I've always hated classes that focus on memorization
<mtp>
the chemistry classes i took were all the worst dogshit
<mtp>
i think i had to remember the electronegativity of fluorine
<mtp>
for some fucking reason
<azonenberg_work>
i preferred to give my students exams/quizzes that were largely open book/open notes
<azonenberg_work>
I dont care what you memorize
<azonenberg_work>
i care, if i put a problem on your desk
<azonenberg_work>
will you give me a correct answer in a timely fashion?
<mtp>
yeah
<rqou>
so something i forgot to consider before i ordered a bunch of beakers
<rqou>
i forgot to find a place to store them
<rqou>
beakers take up quite a bit of space
<whitequark>
wait until you get to condensers
<azonenberg_work>
how about Florence flasks?
<azonenberg_work>
at least an Erlenmeyer can stand upright :p
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<mtp>
anyway my chemistry education got easier when i realized that it was just algebra with idiot names for all the variables
<mtp>
;p
<mtp>
at least the way i was taught it
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<azonenberg_work>
lol
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<mtp>
the thing i noticed between all the basic sciences i took while getting my BS is that they each tried to say they were fundamental to the other
<mtp>
physics profs: this is your most important science
<mtp>
chem profs: this is your most important science
<mtp>
math profs: this is your most important science
<qu1j0t3>
hahahahahah
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<azonenberg_work>
rqou: sooo what i think i am going to want to do is, once i do bus extraction
<azonenberg_work>
do a "fixup reductions" pass
<azonenberg_work>
or maybe as part of bus extraction?
<azonenberg_work>
basically, once you've found the correct bit ordering for a bus
<azonenberg_work>
suppose you see that bus going into a $reduce_and
<azonenberg_work>
it makes the graph ugly if there's a big miter block rearranging bits for no reason
<azonenberg_work>
Or say you have a bus that's half going into one side of an adder and half in the other side, b/c recover_adder didn't know which bits were part of which signal
<azonenberg_work>
I want a fixup pass that finds known commutative cells and puts signals in the right bus
<cr1901_modern>
"things like resonance structures" What is a resonance structure? Google refers to something called "Lewis structures" and I don't remember hearing that name in chem 1...
<cr1901_modern>
I didn't have to take chem 2, but one thing I remember (not) learning is that chemical equations typically have more than "one correct answer where everything's balanced" and it's a crapshoot w/o prior knowledge which solution is more correct.
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<eduardo_>
azonenberg_work: Clifford will be in California from 28 nov until 30 th for sure and some days more. for the Risc-V Workshop at Western Digital.
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<azonenberg_work>
eduardo_: ooh
<azonenberg_work>
i should try to get in touch
<eduardo_>
yep
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<azonenberg_work>
rqou: so as a FYI
<azonenberg_work>
i'm probably going to try and register this project as a group on freenode
<azonenberg_work>
which among other things will let us get cloaks like "openfpga/developer/azonenberg"
<azonenberg_work>
One of the things that would happen, if i did do this and it got approved, is we'd have to change the channel name to #openfpga (and set a forward from this channel to the new name so people don't get confused)
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<balrog>
azonenberg_work: might want to set up an org on github too
<azonenberg_work>
Yeah i can try and move the repo to an org at some point... i think the openfpga name is taken on github though
<azonenberg_work>
So we may have to rename it or something?
<balrog>
yeah it is taken
<balrog>
no idea who runs it
<balrog>
it's got mirrors of abc, slipway, debit, and xc3sprog
<balrog>
huh, slipway, didn't know about it
<balrog>
looks like it's an effort that was made for an atmel fpga series
<balrog>
the FPSLIC family (AT40KAL)
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<pointfree>
The name openfpga is likely trademarked by OpenFPGA Inc, I wonder if that may be a problem in the future.
<pointfree>
Their website openfpga.org is not resolving..
<balrog>
pointfree: it's registered by an Eric Stahlberg in Hilliard OH
<balrog>
"Eric Stahlberg, Ph.D., director of high-performance computing at the Frederick National Lab"
<Morn_>
o.O
<balrog>
> •Successfully launched non-profit 501c3 organization for creation of application development standards for field programmable gate arrays involving over 500 participants from 40 countries
<balrog>
seems like they're behind openaccelerator.org
<azonenberg_work>
Yeah the site is down
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<azonenberg_work>
We could also sit around and wait a while to see if that group goes defunct completely :p
<azonenberg_work>
or we could change the name of our project, there's time to decide
<balrog>
they are keeping their 501c3 current
<azonenberg_work>
If they're still operating then maybe we should consider renaming our project/channel at some point
<azonenberg_work>
pointfree: I doubt they're going to sue us or anything, it would just be easier for all involved if we avoided namespace collisions
<balrog>
azonenberg_work: I was going to joke that we should just do the stereotypical obvious thing :D
<balrog>
but you already squashed it
<azonenberg_work>
LibreFPGAOffice :p
<azonenberg_work>
Seriously, i'm open to all kinds of names
<azonenberg_work>
Even a recursive acronym, lol
<azonenberg_work>
? Open FPGA Toolchain = ?OFT?
<azonenberg_work>
:p
<azonenberg_work>
initial letter TBD
<balrog>
maybe try to avoid free/libre/open? :)
<azonenberg_work>
Of course the other option is to just fall back on nsanamegenerator :p
<azonenberg_work>
Behold, ANGRYMASTER
<qu1j0t3>
ah yeah those codenames are golden, aren't they, mister BLACK OWL WALKING STICK
<sn00n>
freegates.org
<balrog>
all I'm saying is try to be creative ;)
<qu1j0t3>
balrog: You stole your nick from Tolkien
<balrog>
YEARS AGO
<qu1j0t3>
does that make it OK
<balrog>
changing it would be a pain in the ass (yes I've considered that)
* qu1j0t3
kids
<sn00n>
with a 'jail breaking' gate as a logo?
* qu1j0t3
actually thinks it's a pretty good nick. besides, mine is ripped off from Cervantes
<azonenberg_work>
Don 31337? :p
<qu1j0t3>
azonenberg_work: hahaha
* azonenberg_work
imagines a defcon goon on a segway chasing down a windmill wearing a fake black badge
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<qu1j0t3>
w1ndm1Ll5 everywhere
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<sn00n>
cool
<cr1901_modern>
balrog: Ngl, I thought your nick was from Street Fighter XD
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<rqou>
azonenberg_work: do we _need_ the increased capabilities of having a "real" organization on github/freenode?
<balrog>
rqou: at the very least it makes the project seem more official
<rqou>
does it though?
<rqou>
see also: npm ecosystem :P
<balrog>
I think you don't want it because it would help move away from single monolithic repo and you like that :P
<rqou>
er, no?
<rqou>
just seems like a lot of hassle
<balrog>
it's going to have to happen at some point
<rqou>
but why does it "have to" is my question
<pointfree>
I thought it would be a good idea to join the Software Freedom Conservancy for hassle free (for us) personal liability protection and other legal services. They will also sometimes help with travel expenses for events (they did that for the darcs project recently).
<rqou>
but the SFC is very political
<sn00n>
:)
<pointfree>
everyone is.
<pointfree>
SFC is pro-GPL, but they do not require their member projects to use GPL.
<awygle_m>
No such thing as apolitical. And there have already been "spirited discussions" about licensing etc. At the same time I see rqou's point, adding friction to contribution and management isn't ideal
<awygle_m>
Deconflicting the name seems like a worthy goal on its own though
<balrog>
awygle_m: they helped the MAME project renew trademark
<balrog>
also I see that rlutz re-contributed his code under permissive licensing
<balrog>
awygle_m: the problem was not the discussion as much as the stealth addition :)
<awygle_m>
Oh sure, nothing wrong with discussion. I just meant opinions exist. "apolitical", even if it could be applied to some people or organizations (debatable), may not describe everyone in or around this project.
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