<rqou>
yeah, wosign is terrible but imho the mozilla guys aren't doing a great job of handling it either
<rqou>
to deliberately use this weasel word, the mozilla infosec guys seem to be very "problematic" and seem to just not get the reality of how china operates
<rqou>
wosign's behavior doesn't surprise me at all compared to the norm in china
<lain>
mozilla is being very diplomatic, which is probably necessary given that their decisions can kill a CA dead in one move :P
<rqou>
except that the big chinese internet companies can just make a browser that doesn't use mozilla's trust store
<rqou>
i heard this already happened
<balrog>
didn't wosign/startssl already get removed?
<lain>
balrog: I thought so, but I forget
<rqou>
no, they have "special" treatment iirc
<rqou>
old certs stay valid but new certs won't be valid
<lain>
right
<lain>
that's the expected behavior per CAB forum rules
<lain>
afaik
<rqou>
wosign appears to now be trying to hide in the chinese market only
<lain>
because remember although wosign/startssl are scammy, their customers are not necessarily bad, so it's important to not shut down innocent websites just because they unwittingly chose a bad CA
<rqou>
anyways, the mozila infosec guys are very diplomatic if you look at it from a "problematic" (more-western) viewpoint that privacy and security are actually important
<rqou>
afaik my experience has been that in china people don't care nearly as much (or at all)
<lain>
there's a lot of cargo cult and generally confused behavior in china from what I've seen, but I'm not chinese so it's not like I really know
<rqou>
i think that's pretty true
<rqou>
(i am chinese but didn't grow up in china)
<lain>
lately I keep seeing chinese assembly houses doing videos showing off their capabilities, and they always mention how they have great ESD safety... and in the vid, they're all wearing those "wireless ESD straps" from ebay lololol
<lain>
in fact, in that WIRED video series (the one with bunnie in it), I think someone even specifically called out how innovative they were for switching to this modern ESD technology or something
<lain>
the best case scenario I can imagine for this is they're supposed to tap the screw against a grounded piece of metal to discharge
<lain>
but
<lain>
yeah
<lain>
those don't DO anything by themselves
<rqou>
anyways, back to wosign: the issue of "what if the chinese market just ends up using their own CAs" was actually brought up on mozilla.dev.security.policy
<rqou>
and the final answer from the mozilla infosec guys was just basically "we really hope they don't do that"
<DocScrutinizer05>
pretty bulky stuff for doing nothing at all (except a 10M R in it)
<rqou>
on the other hand, mozilla is actually pretty powerless
<DocScrutinizer05>
but that's prolly part of the scam
<DocScrutinizer05>
didn't they hear of those 15*300mm conductive plastic sticky tapes to glue into your shoes? would be the cheaper and way better alternative to those snakeoil writs things for antistatic
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<mtp>
so (pardon the slight off-topic) if i were trying to suck down the contents of a random flash device, what would be the most economical but least shitty way to do it (current thought: bus pirate)
<rqou>
what type of flash? nand? nor? spi?
<mtp>
Macronix MX25L12845E, which is SPI
<rqou>
in general i would not recommend bus pirate if you want "least shitty"
<rqou>
oh is this a bios rom? :P
<rqou>
doing this with a bus pirate will take absolutely forever
<mtp>
it's soldered to the mainboard of a Random Consumer Electronics Device i took apart, but it's not a PC bios
<mtp>
good to know
<rqou>
i currently use a ft2232 thingy, and it works most of the time and faster than a bus pirate
<rqou>
if you're using a bus pirate there is an alternate firmware with a binary mode that is significantly faster
<rqou>
iirc flashrom supports i
<rqou>
*it
<mtp>
i don't have anything, so i'm trying to figure out what to get
<mtp>
but i'm both cheap and lazy
<rqou>
i would recommend a bus pirate in that case as a compromise
<rqou>
although a ft2232 thing is probably an order of magnitude faster
<rqou>
azonenberg will tell you lots of stuff about bugs in ft2232 devices though
<mtp>
so the bus pirate 3.6 with the binary-mode firmware, then? :)
<rqou>
yeah although idk which firmware build works the best
<rqou>
or where to find it
<mtp>
i am no stranger to building random firmwares from the internet
<rqou>
flashrom understands the default firmware too, but expect it to take like 30 minutes to dump
<mtp>
oh fuck that
<mtp>
i can deal with like
<mtp>
3 minutes
<rqou>
yeah the bus pirate is slow
<mtp>
5 would make me punchy
<rqou>
flashrom is also pretty crap at having flash id codes
<rqou>
you'll probably have to lie to it and tell flashrom you have some other random xx25 spi flash
<rqou>
that happens to have a compatible command set
<rqou>
imho i hate flashrom, but it's the best tool i've seen so far
<mtp>
so, typical open source
<fpgacraft1>
<laincat> open sores
<rqou>
no thanks to the CrOS people that made an even-more-hacked-up flashrom
<mtp>
oh good i didn't wanna be the one to say it
<mtp>
if i were truly hardcore i'd build my own out of one of these random defcon badges i have lying around
<fpgacraft1>
<laincat> lol
<rqou>
blargh i still need to hook up the jtag on my intel quark defcon badge
<rqou>
i wonder if the battery died yet? :P
<mtp>
heh
<rqou>
oh if you ever do poke a (intel) pc bios flash, you should unset the fdt protection regions
<rqou>
lain can probably tell you more about that :P
<mtp>
i don't really care about intel hardware
<rqou>
next random guess: is this a random travel wifi router thingy?
<mtp>
it's an apple time capsule
<rqou>
eh, close enough :P
<rqou>
iirc openwrt works on those?
<mtp>
i just wanna look at the original firmware
<rqou>
imho wifi router firmware is all boring and crappy
<mtp>
all the linux-based ones i've looked at are dogshit yes
<mtp>
or the vxworks ones
<mtp>
or the ones that run a linux but there's one giant static binary running the show
<rqou>
even openwrt is imho buggy and crappy
<rqou>
i got really tired of all "embedded" wifi routers and started building x86 ones
<mtp>
my border router is an openbsd/x86 deal, yeah
<rqou>
because of housemates, mine is now meraki
<rqou>
at least meraki actually cares about quality and fixes bugs
<mtp>
to each their own
<rqou>
i used to run linux/x86
<rqou>
after getting sick of the linux/arm and linux/mips ones
<rqou>
hmm i just discovered the ripoff known as CFast cards
<fpgacraft1>
<laincat> lol
<rqou>
they're basically ssds that are several times more expensive
<rqou>
they're not even smaller
<fpgacraft1>
<laincat> yep, CF cards but SATA
<rqou>
ok, they're slightly smaller than most ssds
<rqou>
but so what?
<fpgacraft1>
<laincat> aren't they like the size of a CF card? that's quite a bit smaller than an SSD
<rqou>
aren't there short m.2 cards that are about the same size?
<fpgacraft1>
<laincat> they're not for internal storage
<fpgacraft1>
<laincat> they're for like cameras
<rqou>
yeah, the markup seems to be for the "for camera" part
<fpgacraft1>
<laincat> yeah, nobody uses them so they're mad expensive
<rqou>
although i do use a number of cf (not cfast) cards as pata hdd replacements
<rqou>
although they tend to be a bit buggy like that
<fpgacraft1>
<laincat> haha
<rqou>
apparently oldschool powerpc mac ide controllers don't really like "modern" 64gb cf cards very much
<rqou>
this controller also seems to be a bit flaky wrt master/slave handling
<rqou>
in the normal configuration there is only one master on each bus and no slaves
<rqou>
adding a slave makes either the host controller, the openfirmware, or mac os 9 get really confused
<rqou>
actually, something that gets it even more confused:
<rqou>
i have a tray-loading imac g3 which does not support usb boot
<rqou>
but it does have usb
<rqou>
os 9 allows you to select a usb device as a boot device
<rqou>
openfirmware then gets really confused what you just did
<fpgacraft1>
<laincat> lool
<rqou>
other bug-inducing hacks i've done
<felix_>
mtp: if you have some raspberry/beaglebone/orangepi/... device running linux and exporting a spidev, you can also use that with flashrom to read the spi nor flash. you should specify the spi frequency, so that it'll work reasonably fast though
<rqou>
i got a sony ps2 with a network adapter
<rqou>
and i plugged it into a pata-to-sata converter
<rqou>
and plugged that into a 4tb spinning rust hdd
<rqou>
apparently 4tb totally blows the mind of not only the sony firmware but all the homebrew software as well
<rqou>
first of all, you can't even partition beyond 2tb
<rqou>
and second, a whole bunch of software now claims i have something like negative two billion bytes free or something
<rqou>
not all the sony code is lba48 clean, so i'm a little playing with fire too
<lain>
sounds like mbr
<rqou>
it's not mbr
<rqou>
it's a sony custom partitioning scheme
<lain>
lel
<rqou>
re-bootstrapping linux on the ps2 might be interesting
<rqou>
afaik you'd need to start from scratch though
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<rqou>
the old sony/montavista 2.4 stuff is apparently unsalvageable
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<rqou>
felix_: have you had a chance to at least power on the ath10k card yet?
<rqou>
anyways, i think i'll go back to cleaning my room (and swap thrashing)
<rqou>
my room has too little free space to effectively defragment :P
<felix_>
rqou: the network manager found some wlans using the card; haven't had time to mess with the firmware though
<rqou>
alright, just wanted to make sure the card wasn't dead or something
<felix_>
yep, it's alive ;)
<rqou>
so, i happen to have a 4ft by 2ft coffee table in my room that was formerly used to store random junk. what is a more effective use of the space? someone who is good at the organization please help me budget this :P
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<nats`>
pouet
<nats`>
I'm looking at the icestudio thing I can port my crap to it if wanted :)
<eduardo_>
yep.
<nats`>
you're handling the icoTC account ? :)
<eduardo_>
yep
<nats`>
oky
<nats`>
I'm hanging here 24/24 if needed :) I'll take a look at ask you if I have question
<balrog>
eduardo__, nats`: I'm checking out icestudio and I like it.
<balrog>
it would be very nice for PSoC :)
<balrog>
eduardo__: most of the FOSS FPGA people are here
<eduardo__>
Yes. but nats looked specific for a iceStudio developer.
<balrog>
ahh
<balrog>
nats`: you may have to email them and invite them :)
<nats`>
will check that :)
<nats`>
I'll first publish my tiny and easy driver and see if I can adapt it in icestudio :)=
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<digshadow1>
balrog: was talking to someone yesterday
<digshadow1>
that sounds like hes pretty interested in these type projects
<digshadow1>
he was an intern last summer at work (but I didn't interact with him much)
<digshadow1>
and might intern this summer again
<digshadow1>
he's more on the asic side maybe though fwiw
<digshadow1>
one thing hes particularly interested in is python centric HDLs
<balrog>
digshadow: I like the block based UI
<balrog>
it makes HDL more accessible to beginners while still allowing the use of Verilog
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<balrog>
It's also cross platform.
<qu1j0t3>
digshadow1: I know Migen, are there any other mature ones?
<qu1j0t3>
know of*
* qu1j0t3
prefers typesafe environments
<digshadow1>
qu1j0t3: there are a bunch of them (ie pyhdl)
<digshadow1>
qu1j0t3: also hung out with migen guy yesterday :)
<qu1j0t3>
ah, nice.
<qu1j0t3>
i may try out migen, inspired by whitequark
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<nats`>
digshadow1 you met lekernel ? :)
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<digshadow1>
nats`: yeah
<whitequark>
oh, sebastien is finally in CA
<whitequark>
as for migen, I would also heavily preferred it to be typesafe
<whitequark>
but even as is... the improvement in productivity is astounding
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* qu1j0t3
nods
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<nats`>
eduardo__ I need to get a lattice ice board to test output of icestudio or I can configure the yosys behind to output verilog and use it on a xilinx board ?