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<whitequark> azonenberg: nope, still deep in TCP/IP
<whitequark> I have *almost* done merging it into our main project
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<rqou> whitequark: why do you seem to have a mini-obsession with methanol/formate toxicity?
<whitequark> rqou: I don't
<whitequark> I haven't really thought about methanol toxicity at all until two hours ago or something
<whitequark> this is just how I approach topics that are new for me and interesting
<rqou> there was something else on your twitter a while back about denatured alcohol as well
<whitequark> it was *really* not obvious why it targets optic nerve specifically.
<whitequark> oh, the US prohibition thing? no. that wasn't about alcohol. that was about state-sponsored murders of US citizens in the US
<whitequark> they didn't even particularly select methanol, just dumped any random toxic waste that was lying around. methanol got to be an adulterant by chance and happened to be especially bad
<rqou> ah, so these weren't the same rabbit hole but two different ones :P
<whitequark> yup
<rqou> in other news i need to submit *another* ticket to ifixit because another screwdriver bit broke
<rqou> their small flatheads are really brittle for some reason
<rqou> basically all of the other bits are fine
<rqou> their torx bits are great (or at least much better than the shitty chinese ones)
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<ZipCPU|Laptop> whitequark, rqou: You might also wish to be concerned about the potential health consequences of dihydrogen-monoxide, or dhmo.
<rqou> lol
<cr1901_modern> That joke is so goddamn old
<ZipCPU|Laptop> cr1901_modern: All of my jokes have cobwebs attached.
<cr1901_modern> Once a class asked us to bring in a MSDS, and yes that was the datasheet I choose to bring in. So I don't have room to talk lol
<whitequark> ZipCPU|Laptop: I agree, dhmo poisoning is real and has caused multiple recorded deaths
<rqou> multiple? other than trying to obtain a wii?
<ZipCPU|Laptop> multiple. Would you believe, following every terrorist attack, a toxicology test revealed DHMO in their bloodstream?
<whitequark> rqou: yeah
<whitequark> for example, there's an issue where people go to a party, take MDMA and follow the advice of drinking a lot
<whitequark> however, MDMA alters their perception of salinity as well as desire for water, and they die from hypokalemia
<cr1901_modern> When I learned that dhmo isn't even recognized by IUPAC (it's called "oxidane" IIRC), it kinda dampened the joke
<rqou> whitequark: yeah i can see that happening
<rqou> i'm pretty ignorant of stuff that happens in the "drug scene"
<rqou> i guess the contest to win a wii was just notable because of how silly the premise was?
<cr1901_modern> THAT was the contest where someone died from water poisoning? :o
<rqou> yeah i think so
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<cr1901_modern> "Hold Your Wee for a Wii" Of. Course.
<rqou> wikipedia[citation needed] claims that there was a lawsuit afterwards and $16 million was awarded in damages
<rqou> heh it's in the sacramento area too
<whitequark> rqou: I am either
<whitequark> I just tend to binge-read pubmed
<whitequark> like we just discovered that P-glycoprotein will transport beta-amyloid oligomers
<rqou> i don't actually know why that is notable :P
<rqou> is it Alzheimer's-related?
<whitequark> alzheimer is caused by neuronal death following beta-amyloid accumulation
<rqou> ah so i guessed correctly :P
<rqou> wow i can actually read the full text and i didn't have to a) download a pdf b) go onto $fancy_school campus and use the library (my remote access finally got revoked) or c) proxy through another machine on $fancy_school's campus that i have access to
<whitequark> or use sci-hub? :p
<rqou> how are they managing to not get shut down?
<whitequark> they? it's basically one person, Aleksandra Elbakyan
<whitequark> and she manages that by, erm, living in Kazakhstan
<whitequark> by this point, I think, if the journal cartel *does* manage to shut it down (which won't do all that much help, seeing as sci-hub provides torrents of articles), I would expect widespread revolt from scientific community anyhow
<rqou> i thought most universities paid for access to most journals?
<whitequark> ... in the US and the richer parts of the EU, yes.
<whitequark> everyone else relies on sci-hub
<rqou> ah
<whitequark> latin america? check. ex-USSR? check. eastern EU? check
<rqou> yeah, $fancy_school had access to almost everything
<whitequark> Moscow State University, which is the single most prestigious institution in country, doesn't have many subscriptions
<rqou> wow
<whitequark> and they don't really have any incentive to, because the first thing you get told after starting research is "use sci-hub"
<whitequark> oh look Nature made a report about this: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/04/whos-downloading-pirated-papers-everyone
<whitequark> six million downloads in Feb 2016 alone
<whitequark> it's probably closer to ten million by this point
<rqou> and the journal cartel hasn't managed to get them null-routed?
<whitequark> the extent of what they could do is revoke one domain, sci-hub.org
<rqou> i thought they can abuse bgp and blackhole their ip?
<whitequark> it's available as scihub22266oqcxt.onion anyway
<rqou> ah
<whitequark> well, what next? they will bring down an entire AS
<whitequark> this will get treated by the networking community as hostile action
<whitequark> how long do you think a hostile BGP hijack for something with 10M monthly hits will last?
<whitequark> >Elbakyan declined to say exactly how she obtains the papers, but she did confirm that it involves online credentials: the user IDs and passwords of people or institutions with legitimate access to journal content. She says that many academics have donated them voluntarily. Publishers have alleged that Sci-Hub relies on phishing emails to trick researchers, for example by having them log in at fake j
<whitequark> ournal websites. “I cannot confirm the exact source of the credentials,” Elbakyan told me, “but can confirm that I did not send any phishing emails myself.”
<whitequark> lol
<cr1901_modern> AS?
<whitequark> autonomous system
<rqou> hmm, there are even downloads from near $fancy_school (but seemingly none actually from the school itself)
<rqou> there's for some reason a _lot_ more downloads from "the other school" across the bay
<cr1901_modern> I did Alz research for grad school. AIUI (U = understood), beta amyloid accumulation is what's detected at autopsy (plaques and tangles). But I don't know what actually causes the accumulation other than it's related to a precursor protein. Should prob read more about it in 2017
<rqou> decent number of sci-hub downloads from silicon valley (mountain view + san jose)
<whitequark> cr1901_modern: I've read what Derek Lowe wrote about this. apparently it's to a large degree or even primarily entropic
<rqou> "When someone requests a paper not already on Sci-Hub, it pirates a copy and adds it to the repository."
<whitequark> yup, that's how it grew
<cr1901_modern> whitequark: Well, that just sucks T_T. And not just b/c it goes against what I learned. I don't to die painful neuronic death b/c the universe hates me T_T
<whitequark> at this point it has pretty much the entire body of articles produced
<whitequark> and it only has to query the publishers for new research and really rare stuff
<whitequark> the entire compressed archive is somewhere around 30-35TB, so it's not hard to mirror either
<rqou> hmm but it has no way to obtain really obscure stuff that's only in various $fancy_school's physical dead trees
<rqou> (not that there was ever a good way to do that)
<whitequark> indeed
<cr1901_modern> https://twitter.com/Dereklowe/status/801461757176901633 Heh... one of the $64,000 questions
<cr1901_modern> A lot of his articles seem to be written *after* I dropped out.
<rqou> hmm the article mentions authentication credentials but $fancy_school's access is all based on ip addresses
<balrog> rqou: it's mainly the old stuff (primarily proceedings) that's on dead tree
<balrog> proceedings are the worst, often there are a few volumes in a few libraries
<whitequark> rqou: sci-hub uses proxies
<balrog> we've seen cases where people's creds were phished and then used for mass downloading
<rqou> sci-hub should just to a bgp hijack to steal an ip from 128.32.0.0/16 or 18.0.0.0/8 or something :P
<balrog> oh, getting a node in such IP space isn't particularly difficult
<balrog> the difficulty is throttling requests to be low enough to prevent detection
<balrog> and avoid shutdown
<balrog> as well as removing watermarks if possible
<balrog> though that's not always necessary :P
<rqou> according to my father datasheet watermarks in china are useless
<rqou> they all either say "Foxconn" or "Huawei"
<balrog> rqou: in china they're a joke, lol
<rqou> and you aren't going to stop giving them more datasheets :P
<whitequark> rqou: why even bother? it already works
<rqou> yeah i guess that's true
<whitequark> in fact it works better than ever, in 2014 you could sometimes not be able to get a paper
<whitequark> in 2016 i could get every single thing i wanted
<rqou> somebody went to "the 18.0.0.0/8 school" and installed another laptop in a wiring closet? :P
<whitequark> or a few researchers on their personal machines
<cr1901_modern> In totally unrelated news: http://www.12news.com/opinion/talker/new-evidence-was-db-cooper-boeing-employee/386110152 Interesting 45 year old case. Why did it take 45 years for someone to figure even this much out?
<Bike> i don't think electron microscopy is a common forensics tool
<cr1901_modern> I would've thought electron microscopy is a good technique for examining trace evidence
<cr1901_modern> In any case, I find the case interesting b/c of how little evidence was left behind. None of the bills the guy stole ever made it back into circulation, and a bag matching the serial numbers he was given were found on the Columbia river in the 80's. Most likely died in the woods.
<cr1901_modern> Just a very weird case w/ little answers...
<Bike> i live around where he probably bit it, so i hear every new tidbit on local news
<cr1901_modern> Ahhh, would make sense that it's still talked about locally.
<Bike> a few years ago some kids in the next town over found part of a WWII parachute and everyone was convinced it was cooper's for a while
<cr1901_modern> Did they ever ID it?
<cr1901_modern> Or is it just "plausible" it's his?
<Bike> WWII as in WWII-era, i think.
<cr1901_modern> Oh
<Bike> ah, yeah, FBI said no.
<cr1901_modern> Well, I'm guessing you already heard the news before I posted that link :P. Lots of weird theories about his identity, but of course the most reasonable one is the most "boring" one lol
<cr1901_modern> (I'm not an expert skydiver, but I recall reading that him jumping when he did in those weather conditions was a stupid idea)
<Bike> and one of the chutes was busted or something.
<Bike> "Man expertly stages successful hijacking before falling to his death because he thought skydiving was easier than it was" isn't really interesting in the same way, but it's still pretty weird
<cr1901_modern> IIRC, the chute was actually a practice chute meant for ground training. It's ripcord had been pulled many times and thus it was unsuitable for making a soft landing.
<felix_> azonenberg: https://github.com/xesscorp/skidl sounds a bit like your verilog->kicad-netlist project. haven't tried it, but maybe worth a look
<whitequark> yup, I've already discovered that
<whitequark> and shown azonenberg
<whitequark> it's not obvious that it's better than pcbhdl but it might be
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<rqou> whitequark: I've never had a run-in with PolicyKit and didn't even know it existed. What were you doing?
<whitequark> trying to use my wifi?
<cr1901_modern> Well, I wasn't going to say anything, but now that it's been brought up- I thought PolicyKit was used to implement multiuser GUI sessions
<whitequark> no
<whitequark> it's a NIH sudo
<whitequark> sudo-for-dbus essentially
<cr1901_modern> Ahhh
<cr1901_modern> It appears I'm thinking of ConsoleKit*
<whitequark> I am not even against the idea, the implementation just keeps giving me shit
<whitequark> I *already had* it configured to allow everything
<whitequark> and that worked! for a while! then I upgraded it and it broke
<whitequark> obviously, since Poettering wrote it, it doesn't log anything and restarting it without rebooting your computer requires some unholy magic I could never figure out
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<cr1901_modern> Must log everything in a binary format
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<openfpga-github> [yosys] azonenberg pushed 5 new commits to master: https://git.io/vMwFt
<openfpga-github> yosys/master b7cfb7d Clifford Wolf: Fix $initstate handling bug in yosys-smtbmc
<openfpga-github> yosys/master 8953a55 Clifford Wolf: Update ABC to hg id f8cadfe3861f
<openfpga-github> yosys/master 8012de4 Clifford Wolf: Updated ABC to hg id 38b26a543f1d
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<Marex> seems like the cyclone III guy got bored already , hmmm
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<azonenberg> Marex: well it takes some degree of persistence to see a project this complex through to completion, lol
<azonenberg> i'm only now starting to get back in the game after being derailed by all of the stuff i had going on outside the FPGA world
<Marex> no kidding
<Marex> I'm being derailed constantly
<Marex> I need to find some calm time where I can dig in again
<Marex> azonenberg: btw anyone working on PSoC ? I recall there was some interest in it and , I got a few recently , looks like a nice chip
<fpgacraft2> <nmesisgeek> yes, cyrozap and pointfree are looking at psoc4
<fpgacraft2> <nmesisgeek> (this is azonenberg btw)
<Marex> ah great , I need to poke them
<Marex> I'll be talking at SCaLE about FPGAs and I need to worm this sort of info into my slides
<pointfree> Marex, azonenberg: I'm working on the PSoC 5LP at this very moment.
<Marex> pointfree: good, don't let me distract you :)
<Marex> pointfree: but if you have anything i should mention when talking about psoc foss tools, please do let me know :)
<fpgacraft2> <nmesisgeek> marex: have you looked at my greenpak tools much? Used them yet?
<Marex> nope
<fpgacraft2> <nmesisgeek> b/c we are very much looking for people to test the currently implemented features
<fpgacraft2> <nmesisgeek> sure, its not feature complete yet, but we want to verify what we have :)
<Marex> cool, let me make a note here
<cyrozap> Marex, nmesisgeek/azonenberg: To be clear, we're both focusing only on the PSoC 5LP for now because it's the more interesting target, but we'll work on the PSoC 4 eventually.