apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.1.2; 2.0.0-p481; 1.9.3-p545: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<Xney> dumb question: is there a way to ensure that a module or class's inherited() is always called, even if multiple modules or classes use it? seems like only one of them wins
<Xney> otherwise I'd have to write my own hook system
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<Xney> hmm I guess I could replace this pattern with something else..
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<Mon_Ouie> self.inherited for a class is called every time
<Mon_Ouie> Modules can't be inherited so they don't have it. Thy have included though.
<Mon_Ouie> (as well as extended)
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<pipework> Mon_Ouie: And prepended!
<Mon_Ouie> Indeed
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<roelof> I have this class : http://pastebin.com/MGj7haSd
<roelof> how can I make it happen that on add I could do one.add.one but also two.add.one ?
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<apeiros> roelof: add would need to return self
<apeiros> and assuming that by "one.add.one" you really mean "a_calculator.one.add.one", one and two would need to return self too.
<roelof> yep. I mean that
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<roelof> but I cannot do @one + @ two ?
<roelof> apeiros: or do I misunderstood you
<apeiros> why do you mean you can't do @one + @two?
<apeiros> also *where*?
<roelof> In the add function so the calculation takes place
<apeiros> in the add method, you don't know what to add.
<roelof> yep,
<apeiros> so how do you imagine to add anything if you don't know what to add?
<apeiros> two.add.one # <-- "add" can't know that "one" will be called after that
<roelof> that the problem I do not find a answer to that
<apeiros> stack up the operation then and don't execute it
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<apeiros> and then execute the add in .one
<roelof> the calculation depends on what the user enters
<roelof> apeiros: oke, I will dive into the books and try to find a way to stack it
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<apeiros> stack -> store
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<apeiros> stack because you'll have more than one thing to store. the longer the chain the more.
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<roelof> apeiros: is the page the way you ment it ?
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<apeiros> that page only talks about what a stack is
<roelof> apeiros: then I google on
<apeiros> no
<apeiros> google won't help you with that
<apeiros> as I said, by "stack it up" all I meant was "store it"
<apeiros> you'll probably realize what it additionally means once your chain goes beyond one addition.
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<roelof> The exercise talks about there will be no more then 1 addition
<roelof> apeiros: but im still confused what you mean by store it
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<apeiros> store the information that you want to perform an addition
<apeiros> so that once you call "one", that method "one" knows "oh, that guy wanted to do an addition! alright, now we have both operands so lets do it!"
<apeiros> because in "add", you can't yet perform the actual addition because all you have there is "1 +", you're missing that other side of the + which tells you *what* to add.
<roelof> oke, so I have to make 3 new variables argument1, calculation, argument2 and then I can perform it
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<gjaldon> is there a reliable alternative to node in ruby?
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<whitequark> gjaldon: node ?
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<gjaldon> @whitequark I mean node.js. I'd rather use ruby than js in the back-end but want the perf that node seems to have. looked at eventmachine and sinatra-synchrony but not sure how well-maintained they are
<gjaldon> whitequark: ^
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<whitequark> "performance" is something that is composed of a lot of factors and a blanket statement like "node.js is more performant than ruby" is absurd
<whitequark> that being said, you can use EM, but I would advise against it based on my experience
<whitequark> as it leads to overly complicated and fragile code.
<whitequark> if you need something like SSE or websockets, it's a good idea to use thin, which uses EM internally, but exposes just the IO streams with the usual interface.
<whitequark> what specifically are you trying to write?
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<katlogic> Though performance in terms of VM is probably not a blanket statement, though not scientifically exact, empirical method to quantify do exist. Performance in terms of not having crappy semantics is another story, but usually is not refered to as performance.
* katlogic picks on whitequark again
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<whitequark> katlogic: my point is, you take your specific use case and measure it
<whitequark> it's extremely hard to just say whether a trivial snippet of JS code will be faster or slower than another one
<whitequark> you'll need enough specific data as to make the comparison nearly useless
<katlogic> Indeed, thats why people do silly stats across the board :)
<katlogic> Back on topic, there is also therubyracer to merry the two in specific cases.
<katlogic> *marry
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<whitequark> that would be an exteremely bad idea
<katlogic> For event io handling almost impossible, to use commonjs npms, works quite well.
<katlogic> Beats porting the stuff from scratch to ruby anytime.
<gjaldon> whitequark: the use case is vague to me still. all i know is that they want a real-time, fast and scalable core and they immediately picked node for it
<gjaldon> will try to find out more and ask here again
<katlogic> Node.js is anything but realtime :)
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<whitequark> ^
<whitequark> I also have some doubts about the absolutes of "fast" and "scalable", seeing as joyent has had major trouble scaling their npm servers...
<katlogic> gjaldon: Those requirements sounds like something pointy haired boss would read from node.js sales prospect, perhaps the winner was decided before the competetion even started?
<gjaldon> lol looks like it :D
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* whitequark would start to solve this by writing a resignation letter
<whitequark> (not joking.)
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<cout> looks like DHH is going to pull off a win
<apeiros> cout: he plays in the world championships?
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<cout> apeiros: he's driving lemans
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<apeiros> against whom?
* cout scratches head
<cout> I don't understand the question
<apeiros> in order to win, you need one or more opponents
<apeiros> fuck, this can has a dent. pain when drinking :-S
<apeiros> ok, you're confusing the heck out of me cout
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<apeiros> 14:09 cout: looks like DHH is going to pull off a win
<apeiros> in what? against whom?
<apeiros> you say lemans?
<cout> I don't know how to help you.
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<apeiros> k, we'll leave it at: you confuse the heck out of me :)
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<cout> do you know what a car race is?
<apeiros> yes. I also know the le mans track.
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<cout> and you know there's 38 minutes left in a 24 hour race right now?
<apeiros> no
<apeiros> I didn't now either that dhh actually races cars
<apeiros> but I see… it's not some amateur race he's participating in
<cout> right
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<mcderpenstein> Morning?
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<jhass> it's always morning
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<mcderpenstein> I wouldn't know with my curtains shut at all times
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<apeiros> mcderpenstein: it's still always morning
<apeiros> somewhere
<mcderpenstein> I'm looking for a rubyist to ask a couple of questions - they're kind of in-depth though
<jhass> don't search for someone
<jhass> just ask your questions
<apeiros> we're all rubyists
<jhass> and have patience
<apeiros> and whether we can/will answer you'll only know when you actually ask a question
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<mcderpenstein> Alright
<mcderpenstein> Basically I need to get help on a couple of quiz questions. I don't want solutions for them necessarily (though that's welcome too)
<mcderpenstein> I know how one of them is done but the other is confusing at the very least
<Mon_Ouie> IRC operates under Universal Greeting Time
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<mcderpenstein> Alright, so, I have this code: http://pastebin.com/PqEB6DDw The task is to write a gem, such that I can go Classleve.new.foo and as a result, I will see whatever it may be that happens in .foo() - except that I want to see how long the running of the method was
<mcderpenstein> So I need to write a gem that adds the test keyword to ruby classes
<mcderpenstein> I think that would be a good start for me
<jhass> you can just monkeypatch Module or Class
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<mcderpenstein> So adding a method to Class will allow me to have that method in Array or MyCustomClass because they all inherit from Class?
<jhass> no, they don't all inherit from Class, they all inherit from Object
<jhass> but classes are objects of the type Class
<jhass> and self inside a class definition is that object
<apeiros> instance methods in Class end up as class methods in classes
<mcderpenstein> I'm not sure I understand. Do I need to patch Object then?
<apeiros> >> class Class; def wee; "weee!"; end; end; Array.wee
<eval-in> apeiros => "weee!" (https://eval.in/163159)
<apeiros> because Array.is_a?(Class), not Array < Class
<apeiros> >> class Object; def wee; "weee!"; end; end; ["foo".wee, 12.wee, [].wee, {}.wee]
<eval-in> apeiros => ["weee!", "weee!", "weee!", "weee!"] (https://eval.in/163160)
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<mcderpenstein> Ah, alright, I think I got it
<mcderpenstein> Thank you
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<mcderpenstein> The last part of the question was - "Find a good syntax to support class level methods" - referring to line 14 of http://pastebin.com/PqEB6DDw . I'm not sure I understand precisely what the question is there
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<apeiros> mcderpenstein: don't understand that question. there's 2 syntaxes for class level methods. both are good. the one displayed on line 14 is one of them.
<jhass> I think they mean "to support the same feature (measuring execution time) for class level methods"
<mcderpenstein> the task is to make a gem that logs the runtime of methods. So I want to be able to add "logs_runtime_of :some_method, :another_method" right after class definition
<mcderpenstein> so if the method just says hello
<mcderpenstein> it'll print hello
<mcderpenstein> and from what I understand, write how long it took to run?
<mcderpenstein> Unless that's not what "logging runtime of" a method means
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<apeiros> so you'd need something like: class Classlevel; test_singleton :classlevel; …; end?
<mcderpenstein> All of that makes the phrasing I mentioned before a bit of a mystery ("Find a good syntax to support class level methods")
<apeiros> you can just: class Classlevel; class << self; test :classlevel; end; end
<apeiros> or for a single call: class Classlevel; singleton_class.test :class_level; …; end
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<mcderpenstein> Could you comment on that a little bit? I'm trying to learn the intricacies of what it's actually asking
<apeiros> mcderpenstein: obviously, `test :foo, :bar` instructs the gem to measure the runtime of the :foo and the :bar method
<apeiros> those are instance methods, as opposed to self.classlevel, which is a class method
<apeiros> so `test :classlevel` would fail because it'd look for an instance method
<apeiros> and the question now is how to get self.classlevel tested
<apeiros> at least that's how I read it with that additional information you just gave.
<mcderpenstein> That suddenly makes sense
<mcderpenstein> So making a gem to add the test() is easy enough
<mcderpenstein> But self.whatever will conflict with test(:whatever), correct?
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<apeiros> it won't conflict. test(:whatever) will just not find a method called :whatever, because it's looking in the wrong place.
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<mcderpenstein> Because when it's called as Classlevel.test() it looks for def.test() inside, and not for the test() that's provided by the gem, is that right?
<apeiros> no
<apeiros> the *test* method is not the problem
<apeiros> the *whatever* method is the problem
<apeiros> Classlevel.whatever is not the same as Classlevel.new.whatever
<apeiros> and def self.whatever defines a method which is called as Classlevel.whatever
<apeiros> while def whatever defines a method which is called as Classlevel.new.whatever
<mcderpenstein> Okay, right.
<apeiros> so when you write a method `test` which looks for *instance* methods, it will not find *class* methods
<mcderpenstein> Is there a very obvious solution to this?
<apeiros> (def self.whatever being a class method, def whatever being an instance method)
<apeiros> yes. and I gave you both already
<apeiros> well, all 3 actually
<mcderpenstein> oh.
<mcderpenstein> Alright, let me re-read what you said and dive into it. Also, thanks to everyone :)
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<sonvu_> hello, i'm new to Ruby
<sonvu_> can someone give me advice to learn Ruby
<sonvu_> ok i'm trying tryruby.org
<sonvu_> it's good
<sonvu_> and what do i will need for being a web developer?
<sonvu_> I just want to switch from Java to Ruby
<sonvu_> I have learn Java, Struts, Spring
<sonvu_> and feel tired of complex Java things. I did some research and people always says Ruby and RoR is easy
<akerl> hah
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<sonvu_> Is it easy to develope a real life web application with RoR?
<jhass> compared to the java stuff I had to see...
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<whitequark> sonvu_: there is somewhat less incidental complexity in RoR land, but inherent complexity of web development is all the same
<whitequark> (aka, the frameworks are less overengineered. but there are other pitfalls.)
<sonvu_> how about complexity of Ruby lang compared with Java
<sonvu_> I learned alot of things with Java
<sonvu_> the Generics, Reflection, Lambda, Java Beans, Swing...
<sonvu_> I feel just like: there are alot of things in Java and life is short, when can i learn all about Java
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<sonvu_> when I stuck with Java things, my friend can build some ecommerce with Asp.NET just easy
<sonvu_> and sorry English is not my primary language
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<whitequark> there is a lot of incidental complexity in Java. things which are complex because Java is/was poorly designed.
<sonvu_> Should I move to Ruby?
<jhass> you don't have to focus on one language
<jhass> in fact learning many languages will benefit your work in any
<whitequark> sonvu_: I would try it. moving to Ruby was one of the better choices at the beginning of my career.
<sonvu_> Ok I think i would try it
<sonvu_> I did some research and search for Ruby tutorial on Youtube
<sonvu_> and its really awesome
<sonvu_> They can build a CRUD example within a short time
<sonvu_> and it really easy to understand
<sonvu_> even with not Ruby developer i am
<sonvu_> @jihass: I know with multi language will help me alot, i will both try Java and Ruby
<sonvu_> but I just feel like: there are alot of things u need to learn to be web developer
<sonvu_> the html, css, html5, css3, javascript... tons of things
<whitequark> yes, that's what I called inherent complexity
<whitequark> and it's mostly the same whether you use java or ruby
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<sonvu_> oh i got it
<sonvu_> thank you whitequark
<apeiros> you can write javascript in ruby thanks to opal
<apeiros> you can also write html in ruby thanks to builders
<apeiros> whether you want that is another question :)
<apeiros> are there css builders?
* apeiros writes css in sass and html in haml/slim
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<sonvu_> clear
<whitequark> apeiros: I would certainly not recommend any of that
<whitequark> opal or builders
<whitequark> regardless; you still need to understand the *semantics* of both. they abstract not much more than syntax.
<apeiros> can't speak for opal. but builders are IMO only a good idea for xml
<whitequark> yes
<apeiros> and agreed @ semantics
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<apeiros> writing it in ruby only frees you of learning the syntax. but that's the tiny part about it anyway.
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<apeiros> given that all 3 relevant languages have rather simple syntax (html, css and js)
<apeiros> (the part that you have to use, that is - if you have to write a parser, which has to consider all details and oddities, it might be different)
<apeiros> speaking of js… js is killing me, seriously… [].slice.call(arguments, 1) // <-- hurray!
<sonvu_> Can you give me some experience of being a Ruby (or web developer) experience?
<akerl> sonvu_: It's like swimming in a fountain of gold and chocolate
<sonvu_> akerl: everyone said that :)
<sonvu_> because i'm a college student in vietnam and i have to study by my self
<sonvu_> i love coding, i want to build some sort of application with someone use it
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<sonvu_> my teacher just taught me some basics things
<sonvu_> and if i want to learn somethings more advance i have to learn myself
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<sonvu_> i mean when i read other people story how they success with Java or Ruby or any language and how they became a web developer
<sonvu_> but they can do something i cant do in my country
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<sonvu_> they can go to conference, meet up
<sonvu_> and learn things
<sonvu_> but in my country there is no such conference, meet up
<jhass> make one?
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<sonvu_> and i cant find anywhere teach things i need to be a web developer
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<sonvu_> jhass: no, its not easy to make one in my country
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<sonvu_> especially when i'm still a student
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<sonvu_> clear
<jhass> you don't have to start with a full blown conference, just simple meetups, little workshops, a user group
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<sonvu_> jhass: ok i will try to make contact with others web developer who have experience in works in my town and maybe a meetups
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<jhass> exactly, and if all you do is going to bar and exchange your ideas for starters
<sonvu_> jhass: great inspiring
<jhass> another concept: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BarCamp
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<sonvu_> jhass: are you now a web developer
<sonvu_> and how did you became a ruby developer
<jhass> dunno, I certainly know the web technologies but I'm still a student
<jhass> I found diaspora and wanted to contribute
<sonvu_> diaspora?
<sonvu_> https://diasporafoundation.org/ is this one?
<jhass> yes
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<sonvu_> is it made with ruby?
<jhass> ruby on rails, yes
<sonvu_> and you want to be rails developer to contribute
<jhass> well, I started with contributing translations, noticed still a lot is untranslatable, started fixing that up, learned enough to fix small things through that and it build up that way
<jhass> I rarely learn something upfront, more on a as needed basis
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<sonvu_> oh its nice
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<sonvu_> as every CS student i always want to contribute some project
<sonvu_> but i think my skill is not good enough
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<jhass> just attempt, even if you fail you gather some experiences. if you get something working a pull request is an excellent way to get some feedback from a more experienced dev
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<sonvu_> thank you for sharing with me jhass
<jhass> you're welcome
<sonvu_> it's really late in my country 4:00am so i will go to sleep
<sonvu_> nice to meet you jhass and whitequark
<sonvu_> bye all
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