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<freemangordon>
DocScrutinizer05: it seems openbot is semi-right, location-proxy talks with supl.google.com, but it receives only GPS coordinates, but no almanac :). That is what I think by playing with some tools so far
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<Nokiabot>
gps fixes no problems
<Nokiabot>
supl.google
<Nokiabot>
at 90 km from previous location 900 switched off without battery for for hours before
<Nokiabot>
bbl
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<bencoh>
freemangordon: using supl-client I can explicitely ask for almanac from google
<bencoh>
(supl-client -a)
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<bencoh>
looks like I cant force supl.google.com to send me ephemeris though
<bencoh>
and supl.nokia.com only sends me ephemeris for some countries (?)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
((send me ephemeris)) I guess you need to provide a region/location for which to receive Eph
<bencoh>
I'm sending valid mcc/mnc
<bencoh>
another strange thing is supl.nokia.com doesnt send me any ephemris for france (mcc 208) but it does for finland (244) ... and when I use an invalid mcc it sends me the same ephemeris as for finland
<DocScrutinizer05>
funny
<bencoh>
a bit annoying though
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure
<DocScrutinizer05>
service bitrotting
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess M$okia has no interest in keeping up services for ex-true-Nokia-phones
<DocScrutinizer05>
and what's left from Nokia is not responsible for the supl servers
<bencoh>
actually I'm starting to think it has always been working this way (sending ephemeris only for finland)
<bencoh>
maybe because their GPS receiver is .... in finland ? :]
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<bencoh>
the other thing bothering me is that the SUPL implems send the IMSI along the rest
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<bencoh>
I guess we could patch build a proper supl proxy around the existing supl-proxy and overwrite the imsi with some per-connection imsi, but ... meh
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<DocScrutinizer05>
why "meh"? freemangordon just yesterday announced he wants to tackle supl-proxy on device with IDA
<bencoh>
"meh" I dont feel like writing it :))
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess this IMSI faking is a *brilliant* improvement for such RE'ed proxy
<bencoh>
it is
<bencoh>
hm, wait, fmg wants to write a supl-proxy, or RE/rewrite the maemo supl client ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually I wonder whom to sue for such bold privacy breach
<DocScrutinizer05>
the latter
<bencoh>
oh, okay
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2015-04-22 Wed 20:43:05] <freemangordon> someone wanna play with IDA? Seems my next victim will be the location-xxx stuff. Need volunteers to help.
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2015-04-22 Wed 20:49:37] <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: it is not about liblocation, but liblas1, location-proxy and location-daemon
<bencoh>
hmm'kay
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2015-04-22 Wed 20:50:31] <freemangordon> liblas1 talks to libisi, location-proxy to supl servers and location-daemon puts them al together (it seems)
<bencoh>
ohfuck :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
indeed
<bencoh>
do we need to keep everyone ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't get why location-daemon needs a location-proxy
<bencoh>
I guess liblas1 feeds the modem/gps with new (supl provided) almanach/ephemeris
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep
<DocScrutinizer05>
and that one is *completely* obsolete with Neo900 modem/GPS
<bencoh>
hmm, they probably wanted to be able to use a different location provider
<bencoh>
(without changing everything)
<DocScrutinizer05>
possibly. location-proxy might be subcontractor A while location-daemon is subcontractor B or even Nokia themselves
<DocScrutinizer05>
or vice versa
<DocScrutinizer05>
there's a lot of such cruft all along maemo
<bencoh>
noticed that ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway I still think we don't need IDA and RE skills to re-implement all that stuff
<DocScrutinizer05>
it might help but not strictly needed
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<DocScrutinizer05>
the GPS AT interface in modem is completely specified and available
<DocScrutinizer05>
(well, except the more or less proprietary format for the almanac/ephem data .bin file to download from $somewhere and transfer to GPS)
<DocScrutinizer05>
this also implicitly kills off all SUPL
<DocScrutinizer05>
since there's no documented way to convert SUPL data into something the GPS can use
<bencoh>
isn't it some rrlp format ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
BAD[TM] - I know
<DocScrutinizer05>
bencoh: no idea, I never looked into it
<DocScrutinizer05>
possibly it's very simple to RE
<DocScrutinizer05>
*maybe* there's even docs available for the format somewhere
<DocScrutinizer05>
RRLP format would make lots of sense, since usually that's exactly what GPS fetches from UMTS/GSM anyway, service layer
<bencoh>
if it's rrlp we have the tajuma implem
<bencoh>
(since it's what's used in SUPL as well)
<DocScrutinizer05>
mhm
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, you're free to look into it
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's all free to everybody
<bencoh>
3GPP standards give headache
<DocScrutinizer05>
get the cinterion PHS8 AT command set reference manual
<DocScrutinizer05>
check the instructions for (A-)GPS, download the bin file and inspect it
<DocScrutinizer05>
ask dos1, he already played with that stuff quite a bit
<DocScrutinizer05>
>> The GPS engine also features E911 emergency call service. Supported via Control Plane there is no need to control E911 service by AT commands or user intervention. Nevertheless, A-GPS operation and On-Demand Power Mode (ODP) will also improve the availability of location and time information for E911 emergency calls.<<
<bencoh>
is that the only way to upload gps data to phs8 ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, except control plane RRLP, it is the only (documented) way I know of
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<DocScrutinizer05>
doodle for GpsOneXTRA maybe
<DocScrutinizer05>
google even
<DocScrutinizer05>
NB AIUI the GPS engine also stores data from RRLP or SAT download to the FFS file, and you probably can download that from FFS via AT command and process it on userland all you like
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<DocScrutinizer05>
just format/structure of that data (xtra.bin) is not documented in this reference manual. Maybe elsewhere, under searchkey GpsOneXTRA
<bencoh>
it's a qualcomm ""techno""
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
check out the " 16.2 AT^SGPSC GPS Configuration" section in PHS8-P_ATC_V02.003
<DocScrutinizer05>
you fiund the reference manual?
<DocScrutinizer05>
google should help
<DocScrutinizer05>
seapraha is the right place
<bencoh>
yeah I have it :)
<bencoh>
was just working on something else :)
<bencoh>
it doesnt look too good
<bencoh>
basically you ned xtra .bin to use "A-GPS" with this modem
<bencoh>
need*
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<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
unless you find out how to create that file yourself from arbitrary SUPL data
<bencoh>
well at least it's not worse than sending your imsi and/or cellid to google
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's strictly one-way
<bencoh>
(it's even better, privacy-wise)
<bencoh>
yeah
<bencoh>
just ... depending on qualcomm to get a fix when you dont even have a qualcomm modem is sad
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<DocScrutinizer05>
the GPS engine should work without xtra.bin as well, and not that much worse either
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<bencoh>
s/fix/quick fix/ :)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
sure, >> Depending on the receiver’s knowledge of last position, current time and ephemeris data, the receiver’s startup time (i.e., TTFF = Time-To-First-Fix) may vary: If the receiver has no knowl- edge of its last position or time, a startup takes considerably longer than if the receiver has still knowledge of its last position, time and almanac or has still access to valid ephimeris data and the precise time. For more information
<DocScrutinizer05>
note also: this data doesn't mention GLONASS yet, however the modules meanwhile received a sw update that enables GLONASS too
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe one more reason why 'normal SUPL' just isn't appropriate
<bencoh>
hmm yeah
<DocScrutinizer05>
iirc the GLONASS SVs sho up with offset +50 in their SV number
<bencoh>
great, looks like geoloc1.sfr.fr died
<DocScrutinizer05>
o.O
<DocScrutinizer05>
?
<bencoh>
SFR (french provider) geoloc/supl server
<DocScrutinizer05>
aah
<bencoh>
it pings but doesnt talk on supl port
<DocScrutinizer05>
they often apply 'gatekeepers' to block unauthorized (ab)use of their servers
<bencoh>
I havent used it for ... months :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
possible measures: filter on IP of far end. Change port. Use new certs. Use proprietary protocol
<DocScrutinizer05>
aaaand: filer on IMEI ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
filter*
<bencoh>
it doesnt talk, at the tcp level ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
now it makes sense
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's basically like with every service (DNS etc) - designed to be open but you don't want it to get (ab)used (unless you're google and the server is 8.8.8.8 ;-P)
<DocScrutinizer05>
((per session IMEI)) maybe rather use any of a fixed list of known-good IMEIs, possibly from a config file ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
freemangordon: ^^^
<DocScrutinizer05>
even more nifty: instead of e.g. "356938031370126" provide "35693803$$$$$$$" and replace the $ portion in there by $RAND
<DocScrutinizer05>
fix: calculate checksum
<DocScrutinizer05>
35693803$$$$$$C
<bencoh>
s/IMEI/IMSI/
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, sorry
<bencoh>
I think you need to keep the same imsi for the whole supl session
<DocScrutinizer05>
of course
<DocScrutinizer05>
such session is shot life though
<bencoh>
yeah
<DocScrutinizer05>
short*
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