DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #neo900 to: | conversations are logged to and
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<freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: ok, going to try to boot it
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<Pali> DocScrutinizer05: Hi, IIRC in some RFC or BCP is written that only text/plain format of emails should be implemented by all clients... Do you know it? where it could be? I'm trying to find out if really html only emails violates some standards... because I think yes!
<freemangordon> Pali: :)
<Pali> I read email
<freemangordon> oh, yeah, I forgot you got those mails too
<freemangordon> :)
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<drathir> its happen nokia buy alcatel...
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<DocScrutinizer51> Pali: sorry was offline, no idea why. I don't know of any such RFC re html email
<DocScrutinizer51> pleae see my mail signature
<bencoh> Pali: you might be referring to rfc822, but html didnt exist back then :)
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<freemangordon_> DocScrutinizer05: did you see my mail where I read and write to onenand successfuly?
<DocScrutinizer05> sure
<DocScrutinizer05> did you see my mail I sent 5 min ago?
<freemangordon_> do you want me to perform more testing?
<freemangordon_> yes
<freemangordon_> but that's what Nik did :)
<freemangordon_> I could try to write u-boot to onenand
<freemangordon_> to see if it will boot it
<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon_: could you for example load a matching xloader to RAM via kermit or whatever and then write the complete xloader to the right addr in NAND?
<DocScrutinizer05> hey! :-D
<DocScrutinizer05> beaten me to it
<freemangordon_> :)
<freemangordon_> ok, will try to write xloader. later on, when I am back home
<DocScrutinizer05> :-D
* DocScrutinizer05 just fights with a UPS which is detected by dang linux as HIDraw
<freemangordon_> do you have NUT installed?
<DocScrutinizer05> nope I don't have anything special installed yet
<freemangordon_> anyway, I am back to work :)
<DocScrutinizer05> o/
<DocScrutinizer05> what's NUT? is it recommended to install it?
<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon_: ^^^
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<freemangordon_> DocScrutinizer05:
<DocScrutinizer05> ta
<DocScrutinizer05> however I'm afraid I need to clean out some bogus entry in udev database
<DocScrutinizer05> 0003:0665:5161.000F is a generic USB-serial converter not necessarily a HID device
<DocScrutinizer05> evidence: this UPS
<DocScrutinizer05> seems udev tries to configure a HID which fails and results in USB eject event
<DocScrutinizer05> now if only I knew how systemd fscked up udev db
<kerio> rofl
<kerio> when everything is systemd, all the problems are caused by systemd
<DocScrutinizer05> actually this time it seems systemd-udevd behaves identical to udev ?
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<freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: could you release the USER button, so I can test if what I've flashed to onenand actually works
<DocScrutinizer05> the ROMBOOT will fal back to OneNAND after 3 seconds of listening to serial/USB
<freemangordon> hmm, ok
<freemangordon> doesn't work then :)
<freemangordon> lets see if uboot will read back what I wrote afte the reset
<freemangordon> well, it is there
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<freemangordon> maybe my entry point address is wrong
<freemangordon> well, shouldn't be, BL is supposed to read it from the start of the image
<freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: are you sure the current SYSBOOT have onenand boot enabled?
<DocScrutinizer05> quite, yes
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway I can remove the paperclip but it's a PITA to re-install it
<freemangordon> as I am sure there is xloader in flash
<freemangordon> well...
<freemangordon> lemme first try something
<freemangordon> do not remove the clip for now
<DocScrutinizer05> unpressed USER
<DocScrutinizer05> sory too late
<freemangordon> ok :)
<freemangordon> going to reset
<freemangordon> ok, no signs of life, you may put the paperclip back, sorry :)
<DocScrutinizer05> np, I found out it's of conveient strength so the switch is bistable
<DocScrutinizer05> USER pressed
<freemangordon> thanks
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<DocScrutinizer05> on a sidenote: after depressing experiences with NUT, I installed ViewPower and iked the UPS via freshly purchased USB<->RS232 adapter ;-) Works fine
<DocScrutinizer05> s/iked/linked/
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<dos1> wow, great progress! \o/
<freemangordon> hmm, ok, I have xloader flashed in nand, for sure, but it won't boot
<freemangordon> I guess we'll need CHFLASH section in image
<wpwrak> looks very good indeed now.
<wpwrak> (just finished catching up with the mails, while the gas workers are taking a break ...)
<freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: from the TRM :(
<freemangordon> why is should be easy :)
<freemangordon> NAND: Muxed OneNAND 512MB 1.8V 16-bit (0x50) OneNAND version = 0x0232 Chip support all block unlock Chip has 4KiB pagesize
<freemangordon> *Chip has 4KiB pagesize*
<wpwrak> lovely ...
<freemangordon> yeah
<wpwrak> lemme see where this is ...
<wpwrak> ah good, only for boot. not so nasty then.
<DocScrutinizer05> weird
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<wpwrak> lazy programmers :)
<DocScrutinizer05> BOOTROM? yeah maybe
<wpwrak> in any case, don't look like more than an inconvenience. boot loader binary will need some "padding" and i guess that's all
<wpwrak> nice find with the u-boot arguments, by the way. how i love that critter :)
<dos1> we can hide some secret message in the padding ;>
<kerio> "FUCKSYSD"
<dos1> :D
<wpwrak> i can already see a major contribution from kerio coming. it's good that we also have a place for this special talent ;-)
<kerio> i can't offer much else :(
<kerio> no money, no experience in dealing with embedded stuff
<DocScrutinizer05> dos1: nice idea indeed
<kerio> the most i can offer is some VMs on a hetzner server
<kerio> but, you kno
<kerio> *know
<DocScrutinizer05> why Hetzner, aren't you Italian?
<DocScrutinizer05> does Italy not have decent hosters?
<DocScrutinizer05> :-)
<kerio> 1) probably not
<kerio> 2) i'm not actually paying for it :>
<wpwrak> ? :)
<DocScrutinizer05> good, and yes that's probably really right
<kerio> right now it's not even on a .it domain
<DocScrutinizer05> .cm??
<kerio> it's like com but cooler
<kerio> i dunno, it's not mine
<kerio> it's deepy's
<DocScrutinizer05> ~tld .cm
<kerio> it's like cameroon or something
<DocScrutinizer05> ~wiki tld .cm
<infobot> I couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves:
<kerio> ~wiki .cm
<infobot> At (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Infobox Top level domain | |background=#CCF |image= |introduced=1995 |type=Country code top-level domain |status=Active |registry=Camtel |sponsor=Camtel |intendeduse=Entities connected with |actualuse=Takes advantage of misspellings of .com domains, like .co |restrictions=Local presence not required |structure=Registrations are made directly at the second level (there are also ...
<kerio> my fucking god
<kerio> infobot: you're useless
* infobot starts crying and hides from kerio in the darkest corner of the room. :(
<kerio> aww :c
<kerio> ~botsnack
<infobot> thanks, kerio
<kerio> np
<DocScrutinizer05> .cm is the country code top-level domain (ccTLD) for Cameroon.
<wpwrak> has a weird whois entry
<kerio> anyway, i helped him set up some shit
<wpwrak> "Registrant Name: Camtel | ANTIC l Legacy-Escrow"
<wpwrak> "Domain Status: inactive"
<kerio> so i have root
<kerio> wpwrak: at least you're getting something
* DocScrutinizer05 waves and goes afk for an hour
<kerio> whois: nodename nor servname provided, or not known
<kerio> anyway, we have a fancy setup with qemu-kvm+libvirt
<kerio> and by fancy i mean pretty shit
<kerio> but it works
<kerio> libvirt is so goddamn awkward
<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: does that 4096/2 apply only for "xloader" - read: the stuff that ROMBOOT loads?
<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: also I think sth is *very* buggy in uBoot
<freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: yes, BR only
<freemangordon> naah, uboot os fine
<DocScrutinizer05> gooood
<kerio> also, ipv6 is fucking cheating
<freemangordon> you just need to feed him the correct data (uboot)
<DocScrutinizer05> why doesn't it rwad/write chunks < NNNNNNN bytes?
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<DocScrutinizer05> I mean, only 4096 was a reasonable lower limit for chunk size
<kerio> DocScrutinizer05: do you want a vm
<DocScrutinizer05> kerio: tanks, not needed right now
<DocScrutinizer05> thanks even
<DocScrutinizer05> you could offer one to devuan
<DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
<kerio> would they appreciate an ipv6-only thing
<DocScrutinizer05> they are searching for jenkins slaves
<DocScrutinizer05> I guess that's irrelevant
<DocScrutinizer05> build-slave
<DocScrutinizer05> master needs to know about IP anyway, no matter if v6 or v4
<DocScrutinizer05> last build took them 3 days
<dos1> as long as their master talks ipv6 it should be fine afaik
<DocScrutinizer05> >> FYI and to sync a bit on progress, Nextime is completing a total rebuild of all packages for all target architectures via our CI. it took at least 3 days for that, phew.<<
<kerio> idk if we can spare that many cpu cycles actually
<DocScrutinizer05> /join #devuan ping nextime
<kerio> (also i have to ask the actual server owner for something like this i guess)
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<DocScrutinizer05> well, CPU is the only thing they're really interested in, storage and BW are modest
<merlin1991> Hm i should utilize my server for stuff like that, it's super idle
<DocScrutinizer05> I suggested to maemo aka wikiwide already, also to techstaff head warfare
<kerio> yeah it's mostly idle here as well
<kerio> but sometimes i want to compile shit
<kerio> with make -j20
<kerio> because i can :>
<DocScrutinizer05> look at THIS:
<freemangordon> :D:D:D
<DocScrutinizer05> YEEEEEHAAAAA
<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: did I recently mention you're the greatest?
* DocScrutinizer05 stares at BB_pimped
<freemangordon> yeah, and did you see I replied with "I know" :P
<DocScrutinizer05> looks so innocent ;-D
<bencoh> :D
<merlin1991> freemangordon: where do i need to drive to buy you a beer? :)
<bencoh> freemangordon: what did you do to make it boot, btw ?
<kerio> freemangordon: i'll suck your dick
<kerio> no homo
<bencoh> how classy
<kerio> we want logs btw
<kerio> how far does it get in the boot process?
<kerio> like, can you get a shell
<dos1> I think it's µblog-post worthy :)
<freemangordon> bencoh: padded xloader on every 2048 bytes, then flashed the result via u-boot
<bencoh> +1
<bencoh> oh
<freemangordon> kerio: in u-boot, if you load it via serial
<freemangordon> load u-boot that is
<DocScrutinizer05> dos1: go ahead, there's already a tmo post to refer to ;-)
<kerio> can you check if all the ram works
<kerio> from uboot
<kerio> or is this still the normal bb
<freemangordon> kerio: on the board I have access to, the 1GB ram does not work
<DocScrutinizer05> kerio: it seems this is a board that might have HW flaws with the 1GB RAM
<DocScrutinizer05> the other pimped one is in Munich and Nik hacking away on it
<DocScrutinizer05> that other one has 1GB RAM working but NAND is unclear
<DocScrutinizer05> kerio: we already seen linux booting into 1GB RAM on the other BB_pimped
<kerio> k
<DocScrutinizer05> so we right now have one board with 1GB RAM and one board with 512MB OneNAND and booting from that
<DocScrutinizer05> well, halfway
<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: next step uBoot? ;-)
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<bencoh> :)
<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: please already allow for sufficiently large partition for uBoot (+kernel) ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> so we don't run into similar size-limit problems like with maemo uBoot
<freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: do we really need that on this stage?
<DocScrutinizer05> I mean, we got 512MB NAND now
<DocScrutinizer05> we don't need that, it's just a thing to keep in mind when deciding about a random number for an addr-level to flash e.g. kernel to
<freemangordon> ooh, sure
<kerio> i thought that was just a convention
<kerio> not something hardcoded somewhere
<DocScrutinizer05> it *is+ hardcoded in xoader or NOLO/uBoot
<freemangordon> anyway, I think I did some good job today and deserve to have some whiskey time int the bar :D
<freemangordon> night guys, bbl
<DocScrutinizer05> NOLO passing ATAGs about MTD partitions to kernel
<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: ENJOY!!
<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: send the invoice for the wisky to Neo900 UG ;-)
<kerio> DocScrutinizer05: yeah but the kernel can just ignore those
<kerio> from the cmdline, even
<kerio> and so does uboot
<freemangordon> hmm, doesn't seem to work after power-cycle :(
<DocScrutinizer05> kerio: it doesn't matter what kernel can ignore when the actual partitioning in NAND doesn't match
<kerio> go drink your whiskey, deal with this tomorrow
<kerio> DocScrutinizer05: that was what i was confused about - i thought NAND didn't really have a partition table
<freemangordon> shit! my ssh session got disconnected, that is why there was nothing :D
<kerio> ROFL
<DocScrutinizer05> kerio: exactly, it doesn't
<bencoh> :D
<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: hehe, good
<kerio> so what xloader believes doesn't really matter
<dos1> oh those naugthy ssh sessions!
<kerio> it's what uboot and then the kernel believe
<bencoh> freemangordon: looks like your router drank all your whiskey
<DocScrutinizer05> kerio: please grow a brain! when there's no room on NAND then you can't flash a larger uBoot
<DocScrutinizer05> I asked for leaving enough room to allow uBoot to grow eventually
<bencoh> actually ... do we really want combined uboot+kernel ?
<kerio> oh, in fmg's mind
<kerio> like
<kerio> in the minds of the developers
<DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: prolly not
<kerio> because nothing in the future ROM will depend on hardcoded values, other than the address of uboot itself
<freemangordon> yeah, everything works fine, bb
<bencoh> (anyway, neo900 shouldnt want or care about any of this ;)
<kerio> yay ^_^
<bencoh> \o/
<kerio> bencoh: definetely not
<kerio> but that's already possible
<DocScrutinizer05> guys, all I asked for was to leave some gap after uBoot (yet to get done) when flashing a linux rootfs to NAND (yet to be done)
<DocScrutinizer05> or rather kernel
<kerio> why kernel
<DocScrutinizer05> because that's the next thing needed after uBoot
<kerio> we could be real people
<kerio> and boot a kernel stored in /boot
<kerio> in a extfs partition
<kerio> er
<kerio> ubi
<DocScrutinizer05> well, we for sure could do this, I dunno if uBoot can do this
<kerio> my n900 boots a kernel stored on the emmc
<kerio> on vfat
<kerio> but that's probably easier
<DocScrutinizer05> uBoot only knows vfat afaik
<kerio> istr that ubifs support wasn't added in because of space issues
<dos1> ext as well
<kerio> dos1: can it do ubifs
<kerio> or jffs2
<DocScrutinizer05> no
<dos1> but I don't think it knows mtd based filesystems
<kerio> uboot can do ubi
<DocScrutinizer05> that's why there's a mtb "kernel" partition
<DocScrutinizer05> mtd even
<kerio> there's a mtd kernel partition because it's the simplest solution
<kerio> not because it's the best solution
<DocScrutinizer05> aha
<kerio> it makes it really awkward to have multiple kernels installed in parallel, for instance
<DocScrutinizer05> whatever, for my request that's pretty much 100% irrelevant
<kerio> yeah yeah
<kerio> "be mindful that uboot could grow"
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, for example when it needs to learn ubifs
* kerio votes for a jffs2 partition
<DocScrutinizer05> why?
<kerio> well, maybe even ubifs
<DocScrutinizer05> jffs2 afaik got 'obsoleted' by ubi
<kerio> but a separate partition
<bencoh> yeah, why ?
<DocScrutinizer05> since we're for sure not going to flash an original FIASCO image to Neo900, we are free to clean up quite a number of quirks in fremantle that never been cleaned up due to backward compatibility reasons. Like e.g. optification
<DocScrutinizer05> ~optification
<infobot> optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"
<kerio> like the preinit bullshit
<DocScrutinizer05> no, that is pretty fixed
<kerio> have you seen the shit that goes on there
<DocScrutinizer05> unless you want to fork from maemo mainline
<kerio> that could be fixed by having a goddamn bootloader and a sane partitioning
<DocScrutinizer05> the guys able to fix that are in maemo-cssu
<kerio> are you seriously doing this just so backupmenu will work without any modification
<DocScrutinizer05> when they finally roll out a maemo5.99 version
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<DocScrutinizer05> no, i'm doing this so maemo userland stays compatible
<DocScrutinizer05> not limited to backupmenu
<kerio> stuff that relies on unspecified behaviour can just get fixed
<kerio> like editing /sbin/preinit in preinstall/postinstall
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<kerio> i suppose we could just have a real hook there
<DocScrutinizer05> you're free to fork maemo and roll your own distro
<kerio> to run bootmenu
<Openbot> cool progress
<kerio> i'll fork ur face :V
<kerio> seriously, where does the backwards compatibility reach?
<kerio> right now a bunch of stuff relies on **exact content** of system files
<kerio> to add or edit line
<kerio> s
<DocScrutinizer05> to the point where +every* app in maemo extras is installable to Neo900 without any recompiling ot fixing
<Openbot> ~wiki onenand
<infobot> I couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves:
<Openbot> duh
<kerio> DocScrutinizer05: what about the stuff that relies on the broken partitioning?
<Openbot> thx bencoh
<DocScrutinizer05> which is?
<kerio> or relies on the partitioning in general
<DocScrutinizer05> which is?
<kerio> flopswap and similar
<DocScrutinizer05> meh
<kerio> uboot-flasher
<kerio> kernel-power-flasher
<DocScrutinizer05> flopswap will just work
<DocScrutinizer05> U mad
<kerio> somad
* DocScrutinizer05 suggests to kerio to flash WinCE kernel
<bencoh> qnx!
<DocScrutinizer05> honestly kernel-power-flasher isn't an *app+, by any metrics
<kerio> bootmenu is not an app either
<kerio> it doesn't have an icon
<DocScrutinizer05> pfff
<kerio> (the actual solution would be to just include bootmenu in the main distro)
* DocScrutinizer05 heads out using his time in better ways
<kerio> i win :D
<bencoh> meh >_<
<kerio> endurance is important
<DocScrutinizer05> trolling not, though
<bencoh> it's not friday
<kerio> bootmenu is deep in the realm of booting the system
<DocScrutinizer05> kerio: I'm feeling kick-happy
<kerio> and that's definetely fptf's realm
<DocScrutinizer05> sorry, that's nonsense. bootmenu is a userland app
<kerio> kick me if you want, but keeping /sbin/preinit as is just to keep the current bootmenu setup is stupid
<kerio> hell no
<kerio> it runs BEFORE INIT
<DocScrutinizer05> so what?
<kerio> it's akin to running an initrd
<kerio> that shit's not userland by any means
<DocScrutinizer05> again, you're free to fork maemo and run your own distro
<DocScrutinizer05> or go pester CSSU guys about that preinit stuff
<DocScrutinizer05> FPTF is not about fixing maemo
<Openbot> things like bootmenu should be inbuilt
<DocScrutinizer05> Openbot: same applies to you
<Openbot> ooo what ??
<DocScrutinizer05> fix it in maemo and maybe FPTF will adopt the patches
<Openbot> ah that
<DocScrutinizer05> goal of FPTF maemo is to stay as close to stock maemo as possible, NOT to fix stuff that didn't get fixed in stock for one reason or another
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<DocScrutinizer05> such approach would be pretty poettering
<bencoh> no insult please ;p
<bencoh> (just kidding)
<DocScrutinizer05> ~poettering
<infobot> 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering:, or, or see ~systemd cabal
<Openbot> why not a maemo mainline like mainline kernel from where maemo canbe built in future
<kerio> /sbin/preinit is part of the boot process; bootmenu adds code to /sbin/preinit => bootmenu is part of the boot process
<DocScrutinizer05> kerio: stop it now
<DocScrutinizer05> sbin/preinit is off topic in this channel
<kerio> no it's not, but apparently disagreeing with you is
<kerio> so fuck you
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<DocScrutinizer05> since it doesn't introduce incompatibilities to other hw platforms, thus FPTF won't touch it
<DocScrutinizer05> ohmy
<DocScrutinizer05> one German politician once said to guys leaving parliament: "who's leaving the room has to enter again later on"
<Openbot> i posted ~pottering in #systemd to ask why
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<DocScrutinizer05> Openbot: sorry?
<DocScrutinizer05> Openbot: are you trying to replace kerio now?
<DocScrutinizer05> why would we be interested what you posted in #systemd or any other unrelated channel?
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<Openbot> no man i am just a stupid troll keiro is a smart one that also comes with a brain
<DocScrutinizer05> nevertheless a suggestion: rather ask in #debianfork or #devuan, they will have a more enlightening answer
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<Openbot> they will ban i know that kind strictly not allowed
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<Openbot> seems like they have become tolerant smart and wise no potteringmthem
<Openbot> c ya all later
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<dos1> gosh, these conterfeit n900 cases are so crappy :(
<dos1> bought one white and one brown some time ago
<DocScrutinizer05> are they?
<DocScrutinizer05> ok
<dos1> interesingly, received two white and one black
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, that's what I thought, might be some work to find a supplier of quality ones
<dos1> white ones don't have black stripe on camera shutter door, so n900 thinks its open all the time
<DocScrutinizer05> I guess they also often lack a lot of essential little things like magnets, buttons etc
<DocScrutinizer05> oh, or that
<dos1> but I have to say that combination of black and white parts looks pretty cool: :D
<DocScrutinizer05> I wonder how good they are with those internal mechano-electrical things like e.g. the GND lever springs etc
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, looks nice
<dos1> anyway, it's good that I got two whites
<dos1> already managed to break the spring in camera door in one of them :P
<DocScrutinizer05> honestly I'm very happy when we finally sourced NNN refurbished original N900 incl antennas and magnets and buttons and springs and slider mech and LCD and digitizer and...
<dos1> btw. the black one feels crappy in touch
<DocScrutinizer05> :-(
<dos1> white one otoh feels pretty good
<dos1> black one however has white stripe, so camera door works
<DocScrutinizer05> do they have magnets?
<dos1> (however, I've broken it as well to put it onto white one, so it would have black window around white body, but failed :D)
<dos1> I'm checking if the backcover triggers µsd (u)mount right now
<DocScrutinizer05> for the black/white stripe you better use simple sticky tape or felt pen
<dos1> I just have to find some sd card in mess on my desk
<dos1> black marker wasn't enough
<DocScrutinizer05> why not watch the sys/ node?
<DocScrutinizer05> (black marker) prolly not black in IR
<dos1> if you can quickly point me to the correct sys node, then why not
<DocScrutinizer05> mompls
<DocScrutinizer05> sorry can't find it in /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch
<DocScrutinizer05> it's prolly under mmc somewhere
<dos1> well, already found a card
<dos1> black one works, white one doesn't
<dos1> where is that magnet placed?
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<DocScrutinizer05> in the middle bottom of the U shaped groove where the stand rests
<DocScrutinizer05> only thing I can provide for now is Apr 15 22:53:50 IroN900 kernel: [50955.659118] mmc0: cover is open, card is now inaccessible
<dos1> oh, so that's the magnet!
<dos1> yeah, clearly missing in the white ones
<DocScrutinizer05> /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc0/cover_switch
<dos1> there's just an empty place for it
<dos1> in the black one, there's a silverish rectangle there
<DocScrutinizer05> watch cat /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc0/cover_switch
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, that's magnet
<dos1> yes, works with black one, doesn't with white ones
<dos1> already tested by observing dmesg
<DocScrutinizer05> keep it for next time ;-)
<dos1> anyway, pretty easy to distingush original black with that copied black
<dos1> there's a bit different font on camera door
<dos1> magnet is silverish instead of black
<DocScrutinizer05> now as long as there *is+ a magnet
<DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
<dos1> the same with that little metalish part on inside side
<DocScrutinizer05> luckily Neo900 won't depend on magnet anymore, but nevertheless...
<dos1> inside side of camera door is black instead of blue (but in white one it's blue)
<dos1> and there aren't as many "markings" on the inside side as with original
<DocScrutinizer05> well, that's also not really a problem
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<dos1> sure, it's not, just spotting the differences ;)
<DocScrutinizer05> do they come with all the buttons and rubber mats and stuff?
<DocScrutinizer05> and how are speakers fixed?
<dos1> haven't tried to put the board inside main housing yet
<dos1> there are buttons
<DocScrutinizer05> stylus fixing lever spring?
<DocScrutinizer05> DS sticky rubber foam rings for fixing the speakers?
<dos1> let me find some loose original housing first
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<dos1> there is some sticky rubber sheet with cut shapes
<DocScrutinizer05> cool
<dos1> like stickers
<dos1> of course antennas are just plastic fillers
<DocScrutinizer05> thought as much ;-P
<DocScrutinizer05> figure a less savvy user swaping case and then wondering what's on
<DocScrutinizer05> pathetic
<DocScrutinizer05> they really could have copied the sticky paper with copper trace
<DocScrutinizer05> it's really not more than just that
<DocScrutinizer05> prolly with a bit of skills you can DIY it
<DocScrutinizer05> even leaving out the antennas completely would have served their customers better than delivering dummies
<dos1> there are plastic parts for speakers
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<DocScrutinizer05> plastic parts??
<DocScrutinizer05> sounds nasty
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<dos1> stylus level spring looks the same
<dos1> lever*
<dos1> anything else worth looking at?
<DocScrutinizer05> sorry been afk
<DocScrutinizer05> well, I don't think I know anything more that's worth looking at, right now
<DocScrutinizer05> IR window maybe
<DocScrutinizer05> might easily be fake or non-existent
<DocScrutinizer05> dos1: ^^^
<dos1> hah, good call
<dos1> seems black
<DocScrutinizer05> they all do ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> though you can guess they might be transparent to IR when checking against a bright light source
<dos1> seems totally black while shining a light through it, while original one it a bit redish :P
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<DocScrutinizer05> yes, exactly
<DocScrutinizer05> so odds are it's a fake like the antennas
<dos1> so my "seems black" meant "seems it's just a black piece of plastic"
<DocScrutinizer05> you could test by covering the IR LED of a consomer remote control with the window
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<DocScrutinizer05> afk, bbl
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<XDS2010> DocScrutinizer05: i don't know if i am going to be able to go back to a resistive screen at this point. its been so long since i've used my n900. i've gotten so used to my new android devices. this project seems to be taking so long. not that i mind that its just by the time devices actually start to ship the technology would have changed so drastically it
<XDS2010> might not even work with current towers a year after launch and then there are probably other unforeseen issues that may arise. im also not trying to criticize the projects handling but it makes me wonder if we are taking enough risks
<XDS2010> At the very least i hope you can understand how i'm feeling.
<XDS2010> Also, I don't mind using legacy hardware. On the contrary i encourage it. But i want everyone to be on the same page too.
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<merlin1991> XDS2010: I don't think 3g is going out of service any time soon
<dos1> "might not even work with current towers a year after launch" uhm? that would apply to any phone launched year ago as well then
<DocScrutinizer05> what's wrong with LTE?
<DocScrutinizer05> it's so cutting edge ven modem manufs as well as jolla have not completely supported it *yet*
<XDS2010> They are already starting to decommission CDMA in some places and LTE won't be here forever soon it will be gone too just like AMPS.
<DocScrutinizer05> aha
<XDS2010> I've already heard of talks on LTE-A
<DocScrutinizer05> afk, bbl
<XDS2010> merlin1991: they have already begun decommissioning it in some parts of canada
<XDS2010> the US and other countries will follow soon
<dos1> as I said, there's no difference between buying neo900 or any recent mainstream phone then
<merlin1991> totally the reason why even csd still works here ...
<XDS2010> dos1: not saying don't buy a neo900 i'm saying are we looking at all the angles
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<dos1> well, where I live even my old Nokia 3310 still works well ;)
<XDS2010> lol one of the best phones ever
<DocScrutinizer05> there simply is no newer technology than LTE
<XDS2010> LTE-A is used in some parts of the northeast
<DocScrutinizer05> worrying about lifetime of Long Term Evolition right now seems a tad paradox
<XDS2010> im not worried. im being proactive
<DocScrutinizer05> >>that its just by the time devices actually start to ship the technology would have changed so drastically it might not even work with current towers a year after launch << sounds much like useless worrying
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway there *is no newer* RAT available
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe faster LTE modems, yes
<XDS2010> dos1: i miss the nokia 82xx series :P
<DocScrutinizer05> ours can only go half as fast as the fastest currently available ones. That doesn't mean it won't work in a year. It will work with basically all networks worldwide even in 5 years
<DocScrutinizer05> probably even in 10 years
<XDS2010> would it be possible to put a sat RAT on the board ?
<DocScrutinizer05> not really
<XDS2010> even with a protruding antenna port ?
<DocScrutinizer05> we checked our options
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<DocScrutinizer05> well, with a protruding antenna it might be theoretically possible, but then we're not talking about a Neo900 anymore
<DocScrutinizer05> also no modem modules available for any SAT RAT
<XDS2010> if you look at the terrastar GENUS the phone is actually very small considering its specs
<DocScrutinizer05> none I know of at least
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<DocScrutinizer05> also sat phones are of very limited practical use regarding the common usecase. They fail indoors for obvious reasons
<DocScrutinizer05> just like GPS, only easier
<XDS2010> Not true anymore. With QZ orbiting indoor calls on a clear day work ok
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway I'm definitely afk now
<XDS2010> l8
<dos1> hah, white housing with black cover also looks cool, if not cooler
<dos1> but it's probably easier to fix backcover than that IR window to have 100% funcional device
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<DocScrutinizer05> well, i'd test it. Maybe it's _not_ a fake
<DocScrutinizer05> pointing a CIR exactly on the outside of the window and looking to the inside with a N900 main camera will tell quite clearly if it's fake or IR-transparent
<DocScrutinizer05> dos1: ^^^
<DocScrutinizer05> the IR is seen as blue light by N900 cam
<DocScrutinizer05> any standard TV remote will do