apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Nick registration required to talk || Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<rickhull1> afk biking home
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<yorickpeterse> morning
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<[spoiler]> Hello, folks
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<ddfreyne> sup peeps
<yorickpeterse> Last night I theorized about representing everything as integers
<yorickpeterse> I think I reached a new all time high
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<yorickpeterse> Sadly floats don't play nice with this
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: well duh, your CPU represents everything as integers
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<yorickpeterse> The idea was to have a single list of ints for strings, ints, etc
<whitequark> except floats, BUT this very much depends on an ABI and you can actually have cases where floats are passed in integer registers
<yorickpeterse> but I'm not sure how to do that with floats
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<yorickpeterse> as in, it would have to be store in a `long[]` list
<yorickpeterse> which you can't with floats
<whitequark> well. float is 32-bit-long, double is 64-bit-long, long double is 80-bit long
<whitequark> on a 64-bit arch you can do that
<yorickpeterse> oh?
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<whitequark> on a 32-bit arch too, if you are satisfied with just the single precision
<whitequark> also you can simply allocate a block for floats, ie box them
<yorickpeterse> single precision as in, the same for every number?
<whitequark> this is, in fact, what ocaml does
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<whitequark> no, single precision is the antonym for double precision. float = single, double = double.
<ljarvis> ohhhhh babyyyy, float away
<yorickpeterse> Oh, I was looking into an idea to do so without boxing/variant types etc
<yorickpeterse> ah
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<whitequark> Ruby's Float = C's double
<ljarvis> do you even box
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<yorickpeterse> so `long[] derp` could be used for ints, strings, floats, w/e
<yorickpeterse> then underlying code would cast that if needed to, say, a string
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<yorickpeterse> not sure how nice that would play with ubyte in D though
<whitequark> you can do that if your language has a strong type system
<yorickpeterse> if worst comes to wurst I can just box things
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<ljarvis> this wont scale
<whitequark> so if you can guarantee at compile-time that you only access a given array as a set of unboxed floats, you don't need any runtime checks
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<whitequark> OCaml boxes them because otherwise its GC cannot distinguish between pointers and floats
<whitequark> (integers are tagged)
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<whitequark> with a precise GC this shouldn't be a problem
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<yorickpeterse> "Fucking Turbolinks...why is there no more documentation. Fucking Turbolinks" - co-workers
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<yorickpeterse> I think they'll soon regret using Turbolinks, just as I hoped
<yorickpeterse> *evil laugh*
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<ljarvis> Turbolinks was removed from like 90% of the rails rumble apps
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<ljarvis> that just shows how successful it is
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<yorickpeterse> nah people just don't understand it
<yorickpeterse> it works for basecamp, thus it works everywhere
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<[spoiler]> "<ljarvis> ohhhhh babyyyy, float away" LOL
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<ljarvis> nothing starts a tuesday better than a song
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<yorickpeterse> there, made a "TOLD YOU SO" list
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<ljarvis> wot m8
<yorickpeterse> first entry: "2013-11-05: <yorick> Turbolinks is a bad idea, we'll all regret it 2-3 months from now"
<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: piece of paper on the window
<ljarvis> ah
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<ljarvis> sounds like a circlejerk list
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<yorickpeterse> heh
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<ljarvis> said im easssyyyyyy
<ljarvis> easy like tuesday morning
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<yorickpeterse> we know
<ljarvis> m8 i will smash ur mum
<yorickpeterse> m8 yur brown bread
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<ljarvis> :D
<ljarvis> you are learning well
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<ljarvis> you could come here and fit right in
<ljarvis> ya cunt
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<yorickpeterse> I think my own country is bad enough already
<ljarvis> im visiting in the new year
<yorickpeterse> brit swearing is just lowering your writing skills/IQ, Dutch swearing is actually knowing vulgar words that hurt people
<ljarvis> (no you, that wasn't an invite) but yeah
<ljarvis> heh
<ljarvis> well i'll take that as an insult
<[spoiler]> Croatian swearing, though, is just inventing words
<[spoiler]> and miraculously, everyone knows what they mean
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<yorickpeterse> Why you're in NL during new year?
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<[spoiler]> Croatian swearing is like some magic language everyone understands
<yorickpeterse> unless you like getting firework thrown at you and shitty weather
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<ljarvis> na after the new year
<yorickpeterse> Ah
<ljarvis> i'll miss the celebrations
<ljarvis> visiting family
<yorickpeterse> u gng for a smoke m8?
<yorickpeterse> ah
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<ljarvis> and durgs
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<yorickpeterse> I should note down every sentence here regarding Turbolinks
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<yorickpeterse> and the ones where my CTO remarks getting a timemachine to make sure JS was never invented
<ljarvis> im with him
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<yorickpeterse> to kickstarter!
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<ljarvis> yeah if rvm can do it so you can!
<ljarvis> those words are the wrong way around, but you get my point
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<yorickpeterse> RVM is building a timemachine?
<whitequark> lol
<yorickpeterse> in 20k lines of shell?
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<ljarvis> i was referring to their cash campaign
<ljarvis> but may as well be
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<[spoiler]> But, I like JS :(
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<[spoiler]> Well, I prefer coffeescript, but still
<yorickpeterse> JS is a terrible language in every aspect
<[spoiler]> I still like it :D
<yorickpeterse> People even taking it seriously is an insult to decades of language development
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<MichD> I think you should take it seriously for simply its wide usage
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<MichD> but in the end it was developed in a very short time period
<yorickpeterse> Yes, lets take PHP serious for it's wide usage
<[spoiler]> I agree it's a bit shitty sometimes, but I like it anyway
<yorickpeterse> ignoring that it's the dumbest language out there
<[spoiler]> I've been forced to work with far worse, to be honest
<yorickpeterse> random case in point:
<r0bgleeson> i like javascript
<MichD> So if you want to code something on the client side, what else are your options?
<[spoiler]> eeh, php ent een a languuj.
<yorickpeterse> [10] + [10] => "1010"
<MichD> that is, in the browser
<[spoiler]> MichD: Opal.rb, coffeescript
<[spoiler]> :D
<yorickpeterse> MichD: that has nothing to do with the power of JS and everything with the monopoly
<yorickpeterse> it's because browser vendors choose to only natively support JS
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<yorickpeterse> Requiring plugins for the rest
<MichD> true enough
<yorickpeterse> It has *nothing* to do with how "edgy" JS is w/e
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<[spoiler]> yorickpeterse: that's because JS was the first language to be available to browsers (afaik). We're stuck with DNS in the same way
<yorickpeterse> Again, that has nothing to do with its quality
<yorickpeterse> It's the monopoly
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<yorickpeterse> if C was the only language today that wouldn't make it any less painful, it would simply make it that: the only language
<r0bgleeson> it's not so simple to fix the broken things in JS
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<yorickpeterse> r0bgleeson: I'm not advocating to fix it, I'm advocating to replace it
<r0bgleeson> and JS can be the "VM bytecode" if you want, a la coffeescript
<yorickpeterse> that's a terrible idea, but asm.js is a different topic
<r0bgleeson> i think you miss my point, probably
<r0bgleeson> you can bring new languages by compiling to JS
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<yorickpeterse> If you build a language on top of JS you still suffer the same quirks, you can only hide them so much
<[spoiler]> r0bgleeson: JavaScript is the C of browsers :P
<yorickpeterse> You're still bound to the limitations of JS
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<r0bgleeson> yorickpeterse: you can guard against the crazy in your new language
<r0bgleeson> and what limitations? JS is a fun language because the environment(browser) is fun
<MichD> I honestly don't have a problem with JS
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<[spoiler]> Alas, we can just agree that yorickpeterse loathes JS, and that the rest of us don't mind it. Y/N?
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<yorickpeterse> pretty sure I'm not the only one
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<ljarvis> fuck js
<yorickpeterse> r0bgleeson: random one, if your language has to iterate over Object you need to do the hasOwnProperty dance. You can hide that for the end user, but it's still there
<MichD> fine by me, I never saw the point in arguing about qualities of languages; it's not gonna make it go away
<yorickpeterse> it would be much nicer/simpler if there simply wasn't a need for it
<[spoiler]> This is such a moo point. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ifdqEmlx-I)
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<yorickpeterse> MichD: could say the same thing about any political issue
<r0bgleeson> yorickpeterse: that's nothing you can't hide from your own language
<yorickpeterse> r0bgleeson: read again
<ljarvis> thats it, im writing go this morning
<MichD> yorickpeterse: does ranting about a political issue on an irc channel make it go away?
<r0bgleeson> sure, but, C isn't as nice as ruby either
<r0bgleeson> it will let you SIGSEGV easily
<r0bgleeson> ruby wont
<yorickpeterse> MichD: you're thinking I'm only ranting about it
<yorickpeterse> and again, same point I made earlier applies
<yorickpeterse> Talking about something gets you a long way
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<r0bgleeson> JS is nothing but an intermediate if you really hate it and want an alternativ
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<r0bgleeson> e
<yorickpeterse> LLVM for example is around for a reason: compiling down to C is a pita
<[spoiler]> Every language has its problems/quirks/something someone doesn't like. It's like talking about pie flavours.
<ljarvis> mmmm pie
<yorickpeterse> Again, could say the same thing about any political/cultural issue, does that make it worthless to talk about it?
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<r0bgleeson> its how you talk about it
<yorickpeterse> I don't beat around the bush, you know that :)
<[spoiler]> yorickpeterse: I mean, I understand why you would dislike it, but you're being a bit antagonistic towards JS. If you don't like it, don't use it. If you don't like the pie, don't eat the pie :D
<yorickpeterse> [spoiler]: that's the fucking thing, there's no properly supported alternative
<yorickpeterse> that's the whole point
<ljarvis> who the fuck doesn't like pie
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<yorickpeterse> I would *LOVE* to use something else, but I can't without enforcing users to run some edgy version of Chrome with Nacl or install 15 plugins that all introduce security holes
<r0bgleeson> coffeescript is worse than JS imo
<yorickpeterse> coffeescript shifts the problems
<yorickpeterse> it hides some of the common ones but introduces new ones
<r0bgleeson> awful syntax
<yorickpeterse> plus the compiler is dumb as hell
<ljarvis> im gonna compile my go to js
<r0bgleeson> cyborg mutant of a language
<[spoiler]> ljarvis: LMAO, that would be nice
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<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: I was actually thinking of hacking Node.js on top of Rbx
<Nilium> It's a nice idea that misses the point.
<yorickpeterse> and make it run faster for shits and giggles
<ljarvis> i hate everything node represents
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<ljarvis> and i really really hate event drivin code
<yorickpeterse> case in point, if we had for example Lua in the browser natively I would be super happy
<Nilium> The thing I don't get is clojurescript.
<yorickpeterse> or Python, or Ruby (if it were faster)
<ljarvis> lua is beautiful
<r0bgleeson> oh, clojurescript i could dig
<[spoiler]> I wish we could use Ruby in the browser (or at least a dialect of ruby), and I'm not talking about opal
<yorickpeterse> Instead ECMA slaps everybody in the face with a giant cock with "Crockford" written on top of it
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<r0bgleeson> [spoiler]: link to opal?
<lianj> [spoiler]: mruby
<ljarvis> obligatory "Cockford"
<r0bgleeson> lianj: opal is the langauge i was thinking of im pretty sure
<yorickpeterse> [spoiler]: there was some Emscripten thing for mruby in Chrome
<r0bgleeson> not typescript
<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: zing
<Nilium> I can't, because holy god damn the size of the "runtime" that thing drags in
<Nilium> It is enormous.
<[spoiler]> http://opalrb.org
<ljarvis> oh my
<r0bgleeson> ah
<r0bgleeson> nvm
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<r0bgleeson> thats not it
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* ljarvis an heros
<r0bgleeson> looks interesting though
<[spoiler]> there's also #opal
<[spoiler]> :D
<ljarvis> yeah the compiled javascript is certainly 'interesting'
<ljarvis> and by interesting i mean my eyes are bleeding
<yorickpeterse> though again that compiles it to JS
<ljarvis> i wish people would stop trying to put ruby everywhere
<lianj> ljarvis: hehe
<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: in all seriousness, you should give D a try for systems stuff
<ljarvis> its not even fast as native code why are we running with it
<yorickpeterse> it's a wacky language but actually pretty neat
<[spoiler]> but, doesn't mruby introduce the same problem cruby does (and plase, bare with me): slowness? I've never tried mruby, though
<ljarvis> yorickpeterse: I've actually used D and loved it
<ljarvis> yorickpeterse: but there wasn't much place for it so I stopped
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<ljarvis> yorickpeterse: you're using it eh?
<r0bgleeson> [spoiler]: no idea, but it is suppose to be a ruby you can embed easily
<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: yeah, writing an interpreter in it
<yorickpeterse> register based too, so it's like I'm hitting myself on the head with a club
<ljarvis> yorickpeterse: why D over F#/Go/Rust though? (serious question)
<yorickpeterse> Rust was too immature, no C FFI interface
<ljarvis> heh right
<yorickpeterse> Go: I don't like the error handling, the GOPATH stuff, some other semantics (naming, etc)
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<yorickpeterse> and the C FII interface looked too complex for my taste
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<r0bgleeson> F# cuz windows
<yorickpeterse> F#: never looked at it
<ljarvis> so what you're saying is, you really want the D?
<yorickpeterse> giggity
<ljarvis> that's cool though
<r0bgleeson> F# looks like an awesome language
<ljarvis> r0bgleeson: yep!
<r0bgleeson> but the platform is crap
<ljarvis> used it
<ljarvis> except windows
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<ljarvis> funnily enough f# can generate js too.. but lets not get into that
<yorickpeterse> I do have to say that Go's concurrency system is neat
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<yorickpeterse> haven't looked that much in the system used by D yet
<ljarvis> the concurrency in Go is the first system I've ever used that really just made sense
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<r0bgleeson> ljarvis: F# could be a cool language to replace JS with in the browser
<[spoiler]> yorickpeterse: Oh, I don't like the gopath stuff, either, but I love Go otherwise
<ljarvis> r0bgleeson: yep
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<ljarvis> yorickpeterse: have you build anything of significance in D? (self significant, that is)
<ljarvis> built
<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: No not not, this interpreter is my first D project
<ljarvis> that's quite the first project
<yorickpeterse> I did spent a few months looking at it in terms of docs, examples, etc before I decided on it
<yorickpeterse> haha yep
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<[spoiler]> yorickpeterse: oh, interpreter for what? RUby?
<yorickpeterse> Custom language
<yorickpeterse> I'm drinking the Smalltalk coolaid
<yorickpeterse> However, the VM itself should be language independant at some point
<yorickpeterse> * independent
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<whitequark> language independent VMs are white unicorns
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<yorickpeterse> http://mothership.sg/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/I-have-no-idea.jpg this is basically me along the process
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<[spoiler]> whitequark: rhynos are unicorns, too
<whitequark> not white
<yorickpeterse> except that one poor fella
<whitequark> so, there's been attempts to write them for as long as VMs existed
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: also, by language independent I mean that if you shit bytecode it doesn't matter what the language looks like
<whitequark> and every single one culminated in understanding that a VM is fundamentally coupled with the language
<whitequark> yes, exactly
<whitequark> no such thing as a language-independent VM.
<yorickpeterse> it does however assume it's an OO language
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<whitequark> no such thing as "an OO", either
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<[spoiler]> ngl, making a language independent VM sounds like a clusterfuck to me
<yorickpeterse> que?
<r0bgleeson> ParrotVM tried to do that (with a primary focus on Perl6)
<r0bgleeson> i think it flopped
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<r0bgleeson> or never got traction
<yorickpeterse> it's not the main idea of it, but the VM itself doesn't really care if the frontend is Ruby or Python for example
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<[spoiler]> We should all quit this silly language talk and start programming in Malbolge. We'll love every language after that
<ljarvis> my vote is dogescript
<r0bgleeson> yorickpeterse: it sold itself as "The VM for dynamic languages" for a while
<[spoiler]> Just looking at the hello world example makes me laugh
<yorickpeterse> r0bgleeson: I'm aware of parrot
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<ljarvis> whitespace lanuage is definitely better
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<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: I fully intend to create odoge at some point
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<[spoiler]> ('&%:9]!~}|z2Vxwv-,POqponl$Hjig%eB@@>}=<M:9wv6WsU2T|nm-,jcL(I&%$#"
<[spoiler]> `CB]V?Tx<uVtT`Rpo3NlF.Jh++FdbCBA@?]!~|4XzyTT43Qsqq(Lnmkj"Fhg${z@>
<yorickpeterse> such class User
<yorickpeterse> wow new
<ljarvis> :D
<yorickpeterse> much string "Yorick"
<[spoiler]> I shit you not, this is prints "hello world"
<r0bgleeson> [spoiler]: looks like any other regular expression out there
<[spoiler]> Well, "Hello World!", to be precise
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<ljarvis> [spoiler]: still much easier than http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_(programming_language)
<ljarvis> lul r0bgleeson +1
<yorickpeterse> in unrelated news, fuck model validations with CarrierWave
<ljarvis> r0bgleeson: you write go right?
<[spoiler]> Wat, a whitespace language?? wat
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<r0bgleeson> ljarvis: nah, not really, i was interested for a while
<lianj> i wish mruby would evolve and become faster than mri
<ljarvis> yarly
<ljarvis> r0bgleeson: ah ok
<lianj> can't beat ruby syntax
<ljarvis> lianj: i wish ruby would evolve and become faster than ruby
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<[spoiler]> lianj: oh I wish that, too
<whitequark> sigh
<[spoiler]> ljarvis: rubinius :D
<lianj> ljarvis: still? :D
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<ljarvis> lianj: yeah, looks like 2.1 is gonna be a nice improvement too
<lianj> rbx is dead, and ruby too, they said it
<ljarvis> [spoiler]: im not really into rbx
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<[spoiler]> lianj: are you refering to Rubinius X?
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<r0bgleeson> lianj: people still believe in rubinius
<r0bgleeson> and brixen still commits to it
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<yorickpeterse> what makes you think rbx would be dead?
<ljarvis> mehhhh brixen
<lianj> [spoiler]: yes, but jokingly
<[spoiler]> Rubinius X sounds like a nice idea, ngl
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<r0bgleeson> i dont understand what Rubinius X is
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<r0bgleeson> should be interesting either way
<whitequark> a cleaner version of ruby
<[spoiler]> r0bgleeson: ruby without all the bad parts
<r0bgleeson> whitequark: thats very vague
<lianj> whitequark: like mruby or ruby iso spec?
<[spoiler]> well, it's still a vague idea
<whitequark> lianj: no, rubinius x is not backwards-compatible. mruby and isospec are.
<[spoiler]> No, RbX^2 would be a derivative of Ruby. It would be another, but similar, language to Ruby
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<lianj> hm the isospec isn't 100 backwards compatible
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<dbussink> you could write a language that implements the isospec but doesn't run any significant amount of ruby code
<whitequark> isospec is compatible in the sense that 1.8.7, 1.9.x, 2.x are implementing the spec
<whitequark> rubinius x is not
<lianj> whitequark: really? but all those have isospec + more
<yorickpeterse> Ruby doesn't exactly follow its own specs
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<lianj> but true, in that sense its backwards compatible
<yorickpeterse> MRI at least
<dbussink> does isospec say anything about encodings? magic regexp globals?
<[spoiler]> Did anyone even start working on Rbx X, though
<r0bgleeson> it doesnt have a spec to follow?
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<dbussink> dunno the exact current state, but it didn't when i read it at least
<whitequark> dbussink: I think it at least includes global variables
<whitequark> and defines $\d+
<r0bgleeson> i was under the impression 'spec' was defined on redmine.ruby-lang.org most of the time
<dbussink> whitequark: regular globals i guess so yeah
<whitequark> r0bgleeson: isospec is not very useful to us mortals
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<yorickpeterse> r0bgleeson: part of the problem is that it seems people still think that MRI == spec
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<whitequark> lol, that's because it *is*
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: no as in, "herp derp MRI does X so everybody else must"
<dbussink> it's not exactly
<yorickpeterse> opposed to "we want to do X, would this work for everybody else and if so, how?"
<dbussink> there are parts where mri says "this is an implementation detail"
<dbussink> but that is not explicit for a lot of parts, only a few because they've come up a bunch of times
<whitequark> dbussink: ok, MRI is as closest to the spec as ruby has
<whitequark> since isospec is woefully underdefined
<r0bgleeson> rubyspec is a good definition
<whitequark> I'm not even sure if it's actually useful for anything except getting certification you need.
<lianj> and the spec was build after mri by their authors :D
<r0bgleeson> which is defined via MRI behavior a lot of the time id guess
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<whitequark> r0bgleeson: the problem with rubyspec is that a specification defines not only what *should* happen but also what *should not* happen
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<whitequark> and it's not possible to assert that some behavior never happens, unit-test-style
<whitequark> so rubyspec isn't
<whitequark> it's a valuable tool but not a language specification at all.
<r0bgleeson> yeah, and its not a written document
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<[spoiler]> Ugh. Why does this have to be such a mess
<whitequark> it's not like languages with a proper spec are much cleaner
<r0bgleeson> i dont think its a mess
<whitequark> I mean, look at ISO C++ and MSVC.
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<r0bgleeson> its how ruby has always worked
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<yorickpeterse> Python has specs
<yorickpeterse> nobody follows them though
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<yorickpeterse> except for some reason PEP8, because tabs vs spaces is much more important than having multiple URL libraries, logging libraries, etc that are all equally bad
<yorickpeterse> or 3 (though now 2) packaging systems
<whitequark> Java has a spec that works rather well
<yorickpeterse> Java is probably the only one
<whitequark> CLR?
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<yorickpeterse> Never looked at it that much so unsure
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<r0bgleeson> i dont think its fair to expect ruby to establish a 'board' or 'body' to debate specs.
<r0bgleeson> matz doesnt appear to work or develop that way
<r0bgleeson> its also a bit.. oracle?
<[spoiler]> Oh, well. I find solace in the knowledge that Ruby is not the only one with these problems.
<yorickpeterse> r0bgleeson: nonsense
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<yorickpeterse> it doesn't have to be a board of directors
<[spoiler]> r0bgleeson: Well, not a board, but what does and does not get into the spec should be decided by some type of public vote or something
<yorickpeterse> but this attitude of "Ruby is still solely mine and I decide" is dumb as hell
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<yorickpeterse> e.g. look at the Linux kernel
<r0bgleeson> i dont think its that malicious
<yorickpeterse> Linus still decides but there are many people making decisions
<r0bgleeson> more likely a communication/co-operation problem
<yorickpeterse> it can ultimately become malicious
<yorickpeterse> because nobody wants to play with you
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<yorickpeterse> (basically)
<[spoiler]> Also, why's there #ruby and #ruby-lang anyway
<r0bgleeson> everyone brings their own issues to the table
<r0bgleeson> its not a table of one-sided blame
* [spoiler] was completely random back there
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<r0bgleeson> it would be nice if new features were defined within a spec that all implementations could use to implement the feature set for the next release
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<yorickpeterse> A start would be a single platform outside of redmine that solely focuses on spec related work that affects all implementations
<yorickpeterse> and a clearer definition of "This is specific to MRI or generic"
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<r0bgleeson> yup
<r0bgleeson> that sounds helpful
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<r0bgleeson> dont think its fair to demand that to happen though
<r0bgleeson> you have to meet halfway sometimes
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<yorickpeterse> derp, just realized I can just store integers as doubles
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, I should refer back to the D gods before I emplow my foul magics though
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<[spoiler]> yorickpeterse: D looks interesting, but... I can't think of a reason to learn it at the moment
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<[spoiler]> is D garbage collected? I'm forgetful, I need garbage collection
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<gnufied> D has garbage collected
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<gnufied> thought you can do it yourself as well (if you want)
<gnufied> But I did not think yorick meant D programming language
<gnufied> do*
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<yorickpeterse> [spoiler]: yes
<yorickpeterse> and I did
<yorickpeterse> http://dlang.org/ this
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<gnufied> wow
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<yorickpeterse> hm?
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<gnufied> I originally assumed by "D" god Decimal gods. for awhile D programming language was fragmented, because phobos vs tango
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<gnufied> so, I didn't know you were seriously looking into D
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<yorickpeterse> heh
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<yorickpeterse> The fragmentation is pretty much non existing in D2 as far as I know
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<yorickpeterse> So remember that one time I complained about JS?
<yorickpeterse> I'm now cleaning up JS...
<yorickpeterse> globals everywhere
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<maloik> fml, prawn is not playing nice :(
<maloik> two pretty much identical files, one of them has a fucked layout and the other is fine
<ljarvis> \o/
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<ljarvis> i have 20 minutes to build a web page that's about to be launched
<yorickpeterse> well better get off IRC slacker
<ljarvis> nou
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<nverba> I hope you work well under pressure...
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<maloik> ljarvis: what page
<maloik> ? :o
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<gnufied> yeah it could be any page.
<gnufied> building a page in 20 minutes is child's play.
<gnufied> :-)
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<maloik> especially with recent technical marvels such as Dreamweaver MX
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<yorickpeterse> <HTML><BODY><H1>ljarvis' homepage</H1></BODY></HTML>
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<yorickpeterse> tssk tssk Belgians
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<yorickpeterse> criminals, that's what they are
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<ndrst> .bu11
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<gnufied> I disagree, belgium gave us finest detective of all time
<gnufied> that country ought to be literally crime free
<gnufied> your link does not make sense. :-)
<gnufied> ha ha
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<yorickpeterse> tl;dr Belgian man got a 76000 Euro fine for not buying train tickets for a year or so
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<yorickpeterse> oh wait
<yorickpeterse> for 367 times
<yorickpeterse> (nos.nl is the national Dutch news website)
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<maloik> in belgium ?
<maloik> or in holland
<maloik> oh wait the link is like RIGHT THERE
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<maloik> I dont get how they discover that
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<maloik> gnufied: what detective is that btw ?
<gnufied> Hercule Poirot
<gnufied> I was joking. :-)
<maloik> didn't even know he's belgian
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<yorickpeterse> who?
<maloik> poirot
<yorickpeterse> nfi who that is
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<[spoiler]> yorickpeterse: have you ever read Agatha Christie?
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<[spoiler]> He's a recurring main character in some of her novels
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<yorickpeterse> nope
<maloik> I've heard the name but that's as far as it goes
<maloik> (both poirot and christie)
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<[spoiler]> :D
<[spoiler]> She writed kick-ass novels
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<[spoiler]> I recommend them to anyone
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<ljarvis> anndddd done
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<ljarvis> also fwiw it's pronounced "p-wah-roh" not how it looks
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<ljarvis> my mum is mad for christie books
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<[spoiler]> How's the webpage lookin? :-)
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<ljarvis> all done
<maloik> show us, shipper!
<maloik> :D
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<gnufied> I always pronounced it is Poi ROT
<gnufied> :-)
<ljarvis> it's pending live-ness
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<oddmunds> påarå
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<yorickpeterse> fucking carrierwave
<yorickpeterse> darn cloudfront
<yorickpeterse> grrrrr
<yorickpeterse> "HERP DERP JUST SET ASSET_HOST" I DID, IT NO WORK
<[spoiler]> Welcome to
<zzak> ljarvis: will you make me a website, i hear you're good with computers
<zzak> ljarvis: will you fix my printer, i hear you're good with inkjets
<ljarvis> har
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<yorickpeterse> I heard you're good with your hands
<gnufied> …
<yorickpeterse> (that can be interpreted in so many ways)
<zzak> banned
<yorickpeterse> What? He types all day
<yorickpeterse> Must be trained in typing
<zzak> make me a wireless hhk and i will unban you
<yorickpeterse> get a usb receiver with a mini usb connector
<yorickpeterse> done
<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: so how's that finger work of yours?
* yorickpeterse wonders how far he can go with these incredibly lame puns
<zzak> yorickpeterse: how does usb work
<yorickpeterse> zzak: pretty sure you can get a transmitter + receiver for micro usb somewhere and connect that instead of the cable
<zzak> and still have the cable? last time i checked they were super long
<yorickpeterse> errrr bluetooth transmitter
<yorickpeterse> no
<yorickpeterse> Some logitech mouses have a little receiver you connect in your USB port
<yorickpeterse> I'm pretty sure you can get those for basically any USB device
<yorickpeterse> also, the cable isn't that long
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<maloik> "to bring about", that's a pretty british idiom right ?
<zzak> yorickpeterse: you do it
<havenwood> maloik: i think in academia period, wherever people decide to talk fancy
<maloik> proofreading our sales people's english version of the site
<yorickpeterse> zzak: nah
<ljarvis> i have been told my finger work is "eloquent and experienced"
<yorickpeterse> I first have to hack our climate control because its bonkers
<maloik> I constnatly get bothered by fancy words and marketing speak
<yorickpeterse> it's set to "IT BURNS" yet it's dumping ice cold air on us
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<maloik> Our online order form, invoicing via e-mail and advanced digital communication are key to this.
<maloik> zomg, advanced digital communication folks
<maloik> advanced!
<maloik> :D
<imperator> wassup
<yorickpeterse> imperator: how's your finger technique?
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* yorickpeterse imagines imperator looking at the screen saying "wat..."
<imperator> dunno - 63 wpm was my personal record
<yorickpeterse> bah
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<imperator> though i do not have a fancy and/or dvorak keyboard
<imperator> been meaning to get one of them fancy split keyboards someday
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<yorickpeterse> meh, I'm not sure if those would actually help anything
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<yorickpeterse> HAHA I'M DUMB
<yorickpeterse> I was looking at the wrong fucking Cloudfront distribution
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<[spoiler]> maloik: don't mess with ADC. ADC will scorch you if you mess with it.
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<Technodrome> Good day
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<cout> good morning, technodrome
<cout> how are you doing this fine evening?
<Technodrome> i'm doing pretty good cout
<Technodrome> just was spending a few hours reading the rails source code
<cout> rails source code isn't as scary as one might expect
<Technodrome> i can read it pretty well actually
<cout> but reading it is not something I would do for fun
<Technodrome> just wanted to know how it works in detail
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<jokar> hello Ruby-lang folks
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<jokar> Can you tell me about Ruby heroes?
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<drbrain> what do you want to know about them?
<jokar> How they can choose?
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<jokar> I'm sure they are very active but I know that ruby have many active member
<drbrain> first there's a nomination site that anybody can nominate anyone to
<drbrain> then the heroes vote on the top nominated people
<jokar> aha
<jokar> thus it is not official
<drbrain> what do you mean by "official"?
<jokar> it is not choose by ruby developer
<drbrain> some heroes are ruby committers
<drbrain> but it is "official" in that the Ruby Heroes organizers and Heroes choose their own future Heroes
<jokar> OK
<jokar> In your opinion main developers are here?
<drbrain> Some of them, but more are in #ruby-core
<drbrain> I am one of the ruby committers
<drbrain> _ko1 is a ruby commuter, but I haven't seen him speak here in a long time
<drbrain> err, committer
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<jokar> drbrain: Can I send Pm?
<drbrain> sure
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<jokar> drbrain: Oh, Are you busy?
<drbrain> jokar: I have to go to work in a few minutes
<jokar> When you are free?
<jokar> Can you tell me?
<jokar> drbrain: OK man. Good luck and Take care :)
<drbrain> you too!
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<Elico> I want to create random file names based on md5 and in a directory structure of "/[a-z0-9]{2}/[a-z0-9]{6}/filename"
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<Elico> So I want to randomly use two levels of the directory tree
<toretore> just do md5[0,2] / md5[2,6] ?
<drbrain> ↑
<Elico> toretore: thanks!! I wasnt sure how it should be done
<Elico> yes but md5 like in where??
<toretore> filename
<toretore> filename = SecureRandom.md5 or whatever it is
<Elico> is it in ruby core?
<drbrain> I would think you would want to take your hash from the filename
<drbrain> require 'digest'; Digest::MD5
<Elico> I want to create lots and lots of files as a test
<toretore> oh you're using the actual file names?
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<Elico> I am creating filenames...
<drbrain> toretore: I'm unclear on that
<toretore> if you want just random filenames then securerandom is the way to go; if you have filenames already you use digest/md5
<drbrain> it's my bus time, but I think toretore has it covered
<Elico> thank drbrain
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<Elico> but how would I instruct the MD5 to create me a specific directory structre
<Elico> ?
<Elico> I am not sure .
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<toretore> you don't. you instruct SecureRandom to create a random string, which you use to create the directories and files
<Elico> OK
<Elico> but I want to create specific structure...
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<Elico> 16 top directories and 256 second level
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<Elico> so I want to choose for each file on top of 16 and one sub from 256
<Elico> so what was that md5[2] ??
<toretore> if you have a hex value, that will then be [0,1] and [1,2]
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<toretore> they will be distributed over 16 and 256 values
<toretore> the first digit for the first level and the second + third for the second level
<toretore> SecureRandom.hex
<Elico> yes but what would I use the Digest:MD5 ??
<Elico> hoo
<Elico> it's good enogh
<Elico> OK so it's good
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<Elico> so a sec
<toretore> Digest::MD5 requires that you have unique filenames to begin with; with SecureRandom.hex, you create random filenames there and then
<Elico> well I seem to understand it..
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<toretore> the value is a 16-digit hex number in both cases
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<toretore> that's not md5 though
<Elico> [0,1] will be only one right?
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<toretore> http://rdoc.info/stdlib/core/String#%5B%5D-instance_method
<Elico> hoo got it
<Elico> ok so it returns a value of 0-f
<Elico> toretore: sorry for the mess I am not fully in it yet
<toretore> yes, 0-f for the 1st level and 0-ff for the 2nd
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<toretore> e.g. 0-15 and 0-255
<toretore> 16 and 256 possible values
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<Elico> and toretore it seems like I can limit the hex method to A SIZE
<toretore> yes, it's 16 by default, like md5
<Elico> so I will use 3 and 3
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<Elico> it will be enogh for a top level second level and a file name
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<toretore> what about the filenames?
<Elico> I will use a md5 hash of the hex as a salt and the date for the basic hash
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<Elico> a basic random file will be ok.
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<toretore> what is it the goal?
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<Elico> just to make sure that ext4 wont break under 65k files per directory.
<toretore> but then you need to just use the one filename
<Elico> I had a problem with glusterfs that it will lock directories and then...
<toretore> this will randomly distribute the files in the 16 * 256 directories
<Elico> (there is a hard limit of 65k and I am above that already)
<toretore> filename = SecureRandom.hex
<Elico> yes but I can hold max 65k files per dir
<Elico> so 16*256*65k
<Elico> is much more...
<toretore> dir1, dir2 = filename[0,1], filename[1,2]
<toretore> full_path = "#{dir1}/#{dir2}/#{filename}"
<Elico> yes!!!
<Elico> this is what I am generating..
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<toretore> but you can't really impose the 65k limit yourself, only try to distribute the files
<toretore> and provide a directory structure that will hold enough files
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<toretore> which in this case is, as you wrote, 16 * 256 * 65k
<Elico> I can just "touch" the files from different places and see how the glusterfs holds it all together.. files.. "ls".. "find" etc..
<toretore> if you go above that, it doesn't matter how you name the files
<Elico> I just need to make sure it holds together in way
<Elico> squid uses this structure of 16/265/files
<Elico> but to make the proxy create does files by http requests will take a while...
<toretore> so you're just testing how the fs will handle squid's file storage?
<Elico> basically yes
<toretore> if you really want to fill the directories, you have to do it sequentially, 0 .. 16*256*65k
<toretore> in hex
<Elico> yes this is what I need to do
<Elico> and not randomaly
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<Elico> but I prefer to run it randomly and built it slowly while adding some read load on the way
<toretore> it will be more realistic
<toretore> sure
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<Elico> well creating the directories started..
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<chad_> anyone have any experience w/ the viewpoint-spws library?
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<soahccc> Any idea why echo concats -n and the url? I have "-n http://..." in my clipboard? :( `echo -n "#{url}" | pbcopy`
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<wnd> perhaps your echo doesn't understand -n and, well, echoes it
<wnd> busybox is known to do that
<wnd> printf may help
<soahccc> It's a little script on my Mac and it works if I do it in shell.
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<wnd> is your interactive shell different from the one you use for that thing?
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<soahccc> It must be, if I run it manuall (puts %{echo -n "#{url}" | pbcopy}) then it works but in backticks it wont
<wnd> for example, it could be built-in for the other
<wnd> echo, I mean
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<soahccc> If I put the output of line 10 here into the shell I call this script from, it behaves different. I have no idea why... https://gist.github.com/2called-chaos/e38667b2f2a85c67e225
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<wnd> for example, my default shell is dash, but my interactive shell is zsh. luckily there's little difference between the two for scripts that have been written to work with sh.
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<wnd> you can always run `echo $0` in irb to see which shell is used for "backticks"
<soahccc> it's sh
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<wnd> try `which echo` and then run the same thing (without backtick) in your interactive shell
<soahccc> just did it and it's the same /bin/echo
<soahccc> a `ls -l` works though (it uses -l)
<wnd> anyway, `printf "#{url}" | pbcopy` should do pretty much the same things
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<wnd> in terms of evaluating the value of url in shell, it isn't any safer than echo -n, though
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<soahccc> wnd: Thanks... spooky echo :( The names are all URL safe so I shouldn't need to escape them further
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