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<yorickpeterse>
morning
<maloik_>
o/
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<brahmana>
Hi all, I need a guidance on installing Ruby on Mac OS X Lion (10.7). I am very new to Mac.
<brahmana>
I read a few articles on the internet and this is what I have understood so far.
<brahmana>
I can install the Command Line Tools for XCode package from Apple and skip installing the huge XCode.
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<brahmana>
Then I can use rvm to install my ruby (2.0)
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<brahmana>
I want to know if the LLVM compiler that is installed as part of the Command Line tools package is sufficient for Ruby installation or do I need to install the GCC separately?
<jrobeson>
brahmana, most people use homebrew on mac i think
<jrobeson>
and use that to install rvm/rbenv and whatnot
<brahmana>
I am a little short on bandwidth. So I want to make sure I download only essentials stuff. Mac downloads are really huge..!!
<jrobeson>
and for all sorts of other stuff
<jrobeson>
i think you only need the command line tools
<jrobeson>
i'm not a mac user tho
<maloik_>
I've always just installed xcode entirely, but only command line tools should be sufficient
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* chris2
remembers when macports had binaries
<brahmana>
jrobeson: Yeah. I read about homebrew too. Will probably end up using that too.
<maloik_>
then indeed use homebrew to install whatever you want, I believe a lot of people use chruby these days
<maloik_>
at least I do, quite like it
<maloik_>
just don't touch the actual 'native' ruby install
<brahmana>
maloik_: Thanks for the confirmation about command line tools. It is just 139MB v/s multi GB XCode install.
<brahmana>
maloik_: Yeah, I will put the new ruby in my home dir (like I did on my linux machine). Should be good right?
<maloik_>
Check out chruby, they put it somewhere else and it works really well
<maloik_>
it's also tiny compared to rvm and the likes
<brahmana>
maloik_: Ok. Cool. So the path is. Install Command line tools, then homebrew, then chruby and then ruby 2.0. Correct?
<maloik_>
pretty much
<brahmana>
And then Rails and other gems and so on
<brahmana>
Once again thank you very much maloik_
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<maloik_>
Does anyone know when line endings can be converted from linux style to windows style (^M) despite no windows machines being used anywhere? We're passing around attributes and at one point the line endings turn into ^M and I'm at a loss of what could be going on
<brahmana>
maloik_: Btw, will the clang/llvm be sufficient for the gems with native extensions or will they ask for GCC itself? Nokogiri is one which I definitely need.
<maloik_>
I have no idea about any of thata stuff tbh, I just try and then try and solve the errors if any :-)
<brahmana>
:)
* brahmana
will also have to do the same probably..
<maloik_>
RE my previous question: crossposted from rails, but it's all tumbleweeds in there as usual
<chris2>
a wrong git attribute?
<maloik_>
what do you mean by that chris2 ?
<chris2>
you can tell git to fuck up line endings for you
<chris2>
er, i mean, convert them
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<maloik_>
right, but these aren't git repositories
<chris2>
ah
<maloik_>
our chef client fetches a bunch of data via an api, in this case an apache config attribute that has newlines, and saves it to the proper config file
<maloik_>
but for some reason it ends up with ^M newline characters
<maloik_>
it still works, it just doesn't look very nice
<chris2>
some browsers textarea?
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<maloik_>
none of us use windows, but even if that were the case I'd think rails or our database would convert that properly
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<chris2>
its crlf, not just cr yes?
<maloik_>
but that's just a guess as I have no idea how to properly check that
<maloik_>
uhhh not sure, it just displays as ^M in the resulting file
<chris2>
else it could be a legacy mac app ;)
<maloik_>
and it looks like this in the json: on\r\nXSend
<chris2>
yeah crlf
<maloik_>
is that what it's supposed to be? or is that already wrong
<chris2>
its internet newline :)
<gnufied>
morning
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<gnufied>
chris2: do you travel? I am trying to get a programming language person as a panelist for upcoming rubyconf in Bangalore?
<chris2>
gnufied: no time currently
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<gnufied>
cool. np. it is in January fwiw though
<chris2>
yeah
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<maloik_>
what do you mean by programming language person ?
<dev0p>
@waxjar, yes, this is just a seed file for dev environment. In production this doesn't happen, of course, since the pins are generated upon card activation.
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<waxjar>
:)
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<dev0p>
hey @ljarvis, thanks, that's a very elegant solution :)
<dev0p>
My background is in PHP and I spent the past 6 months learning ruby. With no mentor at my side, it's been tough going.
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<maloik_>
dev0p: the best mentor you can have is a fulltime job :-)
<yorickpeterse>
"Include Slim in your Gemfile with gem 'slim' or require it with require 'slim'. That's it! Now, just use the .slim extension and you're good to go."
<yorickpeterse>
EXCEPT I'M NOT USING RAILS DAMN IT
<yorickpeterse>
grrrr
* yorickpeterse
shakes fist
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<ljarvis>
bro
<maloik_>
ERB.new().result
<ljarvis>
stop bein a whiny bitch
<dev0p>
@maloi_ well to get that job you need to know how to code in that language
<maloik_>
Slim is a PHP micro framework that helps you quickly write simple yet powerful web applications and APIs.
<maloik_>
heh wrong repo :D
<dev0p>
I'm now a solo founder working on my own project to be released in Feb 2014
<maloik_>
dev0p: depends... I got mine after 6 months of "after-hours" learning ruby, during which I had found one super tiny freelance job
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<maloik_>
with no prior programming experience
<maloik_>
I got lucky, I realize that... but it's not impossible
<maloik_>
what are you working on ?
<dev0p>
An Inventive/Rewards System, where people collect points when spending money on certain services
<dev0p>
Thus the cards :P
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<dev0p>
@ljarvis If you see this: Big thanks for your nudge into the right directon. I'm refactoring my Seed file now using aspects of your elegant solution!!
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<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: yer mum
<yorickpeterse>
maloik_: I don't like <%= erb %>
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<yorickpeterse>
and no I'm not having my period
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<darix>
yorickpeterse: we would be all afraid of the day when you actually get your period ... although .. cant get that much more worse than it is already.
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<ljarvis>
dev0p: good stuff
<yorickpeterse>
I'd probably eat fucktons of chocolate
<yorickpeterse>
or ice cream
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<yorickpeterse>
So anyway, I'm basically looking for something like actionview but for non web apps
<yorickpeterse>
since we'll have some daemon that will poop out HTML, but I don't feel like re-inventing actionview
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<maloik_>
it's pooping out static html you mean ?
<yorickpeterse>
anything like this, or do I have to set this up myself using Tilt?
<yorickpeterse>
maloik_: no, HTML rendered from templates
<yorickpeterse>
The data is dynamic
<ljarvis>
just use erubis and openstruct?
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<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: this is Ruby, there should be at least 10 gems for it
<ljarvis>
oh you dont like erb
<ljarvis>
heh
<yorickpeterse>
I'm just curious what has been done so far before I say "FUCK IT WE'LL DO IT OURSELVES"
<ljarvis>
heh
<ljarvis>
no idea, i'd just have a context class and use tilt myself
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<yorickpeterse>
Hm, last tilt commit 3 months ago
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<ljarvis>
3 months isn't that long
<ljarvis>
although there's quite the bug backlog..
<yorickpeterse>
No, but it was somewhat dead-ish before that
<yorickpeterse>
So I'm not sure if I want to trust that
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<yorickpeterse>
why the fuck do people use multi_json
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<yorickpeterse>
and dear god, there's even multi_xml
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<whitequark>
dependency injection
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<yorickpeterse>
multi_multi_json
<yorickpeterse>
so you can have swappable swappable JSON implementations
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<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: so that gem X isn't tied to JSON parser Y but the user wants/needs to use JSON parser Z
<yorickpeterse>
workmad3: there's this thing called "JSON" in stdlib, works good enough for most cases
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<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: yeah, it's the 'most cases' that's the problem there ;)
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<yorickpeterse>
the only alternative that makes sense is Yajl, and if you're using that you probably *don't* want some super generic interface on top
<yorickpeterse>
you want to actually use the Yajl API
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<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: so I should rewrite gem X to use the Yajl API and maintain my own fork because I want to use YAJL for my own stuff but gem X is using stdlib JSON?
<yorickpeterse>
what?
<yorickpeterse>
that sentence makes zero sense
<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: the point of multi_json is for library code
<yorickpeterse>
use Yajl when your Gem/project needs it, otherwise just use JSON?
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<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: so I'm writing a project that needs a particular gem, but I also need to use YAJL
<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: but that gem is hardcoded to stdlib json
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<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: pain
<yorickpeterse>
Don't really see the problem there
<yorickpeterse>
different namespaces so they don't clash, little extra overhead too
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<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: most people don't like to fork gems just to use a different backend in it :P
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<yorickpeterse>
why teh fuck would you fork it? There's no need for it
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<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: ok, take it the other way around then
<yorickpeterse>
Putting in Yajl isn't going to suddenly break some Gem, and if it does that Gem needs to be fixed because it's probably super stupid
<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: you need gem X, but it's hardcoded to use YAJL
<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: but you're deploying to a system where YAJL won't compile
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<yorickpeterse>
That might be the one case where it makes sense, though I've yet to meet a system where Yajl wouldn't compile
<yorickpeterse>
Maybe on jruby but I have some pretty strong opinions on turning off C extension support there anyway
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<yorickpeterse>
Don't get me wrong, there *are* use cases but they're pretty rare if you'd ask me
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<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: more generally, things like multi_json give people the ability to customise the json backend without having to rewrite an entire gem... and it kinda makes sense for gems that need a json backend to code to that interface rather than a specific implementation so that the user can make that choice
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: jruby doesn't have cexts anymore.
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<whitequark>
it's been ripped from the trunk
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: I know
<yorickpeterse>
current stable still has though
<yorickpeterse>
workmad3: like I said, there are some use cases but more often than not the assumption is "I NEED JSON, THEREFOR MULTI_JSON" opposed to "lets just use stdlib JSON because it's there"
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<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: personally, I'd say that's the correct assumption to make for a gem
<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: it's not the correct assumption for an application ;)
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<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: oi, does Grape support OPTIONS as a request?
<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: seeing how it documents requests that would be neat
<yorickpeterse>
(as in, Grape does that using `desc`
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<ljarvis>
yorickpeterse: no idea never had to use it
<yorickpeterse>
hm
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<silverhammer>
does anyone know of a more complete/current reference than README.EXT for extensions?
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<ljarvis>
what more do you want than README.EXT?!
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<silverhammer>
some functions aren't mentioned at all
<silverhammer>
some are mentioned, but their usage is not explained
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<silverhammer>
some stuff (like inheritance) isn't mentioned at all
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<ljarvis>
silverhammer: there is no complete guide
<ljarvis>
silverhammer: a lot of it is relatively easy to pick up by source diving though
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<silverhammer>
i've been doing quite a bit of source diving
<silverhammer>
but the lack of rigorous documentation is a little baffling
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<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: you're telling this person to hit themselves with a wrench
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<yorickpeterse>
nobody likes C source diving unless they are already dead inside
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* whitequark
is dead inside, he guesses
<yorickpeterse>
well you did write a arser/lexer
<yorickpeterse>
heh, arser
<yorickpeterse>
Fucking train wifi
<silverhammer>
there are plenty of tutorials on writing basic C wrappers, but everyone seems to avoid more complicated topics
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<whitequark>
well, since you're already writing C, you're expected to be able to read it as well.
<silverhammer>
whitequark: ffi seems to defeat the point if the extension is for performance reasons
<whitequark>
silverhammer: do you have benchmarks?
<yorickpeterse>
I'd say that would be FFI/implementation related, as in, I don't think an FFI interface should be that much slower
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<whitequark>
there can be cases where an FFI impl could be much slower, but it's pretty specific circumstances
<ljarvis>
yorickpeterse: not really, you only have to look at the basics to see how things like inheritance is done
<yorickpeterse>
Though I do recall that my FFI aspell binding was quite a bit slower than the C version (raspell)
<yxhuvud>
silverhammer: depends on how the library you call work. If you do one call to something that is slow, then it will probably be faster, but you may not gain if what you call is called a lot of times.
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<whitequark>
FFI has a bit of calling overhead, but what's much more important is data structures
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<whitequark>
if you're going to, say, map big ruby arrays to big c arrays, it will be slow
<whitequark>
I wonder if the ffi library provides a wrapper for that, it should
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<silverhammer>
I don't think I need to worry about stuff like that
<silverhammer>
maybe ffi is the way to go
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<yorickpeterse>
it saves you about 5 shots to the foot
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* yorickpeterse
has plenty of feet luckily
<silverhammer>
regardless of my needs, I still claim that native extensions are unnecessarily hard to write in Ruby
<silverhammer>
due to lack of documentation
<yorickpeterse>
they are
<yorickpeterse>
write Ruby instead
<ljarvis>
but ruby is slow
<yorickpeterse>
(that should be a slogan)
<yorickpeterse>
"Just write fucking Ruby"
<yfeldblum>
ljarvis: write ruby for jruby/rubinius?
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<ljarvis>
heh
<yorickpeterse>
or topaz
* yorickpeterse
runs
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<yorickpeterse>
grrrr, somebody is clipping their nails in the train
<ljarvis>
if i want raw performance, i avoid ruby altogether
<yorickpeterse>
maloik_: that's what every addict says :P
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<ljarvis>
heh
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<cored>
ljarvis: so people from work told me that I could use mechanize to solve the problem that I had last week
<cored>
ljarvis: will try again for more pointers :-P
<drbrain>
cored: \o/
<cored>
drbrain: :-P
<drbrain>
cored: ⁇
<cored>
drbrain: I guess my problem became an internal #ruby-lang joke already
<drbrain>
cored: I guess I'm not in on this joke
<cored>
drbrain: well basically, I was parsing a form to get some data, but ljarvis suggested me that I could not get the data because it was getting genreated by Javascript
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<ljarvis>
the joke was that what cored is doing is an incredibly bad idea \o/
<cored>
drbrain: another person told me that I could
<cored>
drbrain: exactly what ljarvis said
<drbrain>
oh, I see
<cored>
drbrain: I've should thank in person at Rubyconf, I saw you there, thank you for mechanize that's it
<ljarvis>
:D
<drbrain>
cored: mechanize has had many maintainers, I think ljarvis will soon eclipse me in time served
<cored>
drbrain: like most people I saw there you were taller than I imagine
<drbrain>
haha
<ljarvis>
lol
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<cored>
drbrain: I was kinda scared because of Evans Phoenix height
<drbrain>
yeah, he's super tall
<cored>
yeap
<cored>
the only person that met my height expectation was Sandi Metz
<cored>
oh and also Paul Elliot
<cored>
I was looking up talking to Ben Orestein also, but then again I'm just 5'7 so
<ljarvis>
lots of height assumptions
<ljarvis>
Ben is about my height
<cored>
:-O
<drbrain>
uuuuuggghhhh
<drbrain>
The classes for building extensions in rubygems are the worst part of rubygems
<drbrain>
but they're too hard to rip out and replace
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<cored>
for building extensions ?
<drbrain>
C extensions
<drbrain>
like nokogiri
<cored>
oh
<cored>
ok
<drbrain>
there's a Builder class that looks up the correct class to use
<drbrain>
(like ExtConfBuilder)
<drbrain>
but those classes aren't ever instantiated, only class methods are called
<drbrain>
so I can't take advantage of shared state anywhere
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