<p_l>
Aurora_v_kosmose: the "shocking!" revelation to HP was that customers didn't want to buy Itanium :>
<p_l>
to the point that they had to restart Alpha production
<Aurora_v_kosmose>
hah
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<p_l>
end result was that outside of supercomputing, Itanium was left with two groups of customers, the people who somehow ended up running HP-UX (I might have actually encountered a case few years ago), and people running OpenVMS who for some reason couldn't get alphas or needed something specific to I64 systems
<p_l>
and the HP-UX group was dominated by pure Oracle hosting
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<aeth>
I can't believe no one has ported SBCL to Itanium yet
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<p_l>
aeth: Itanium was pretty much dead within few years of actually arriving, and it was half-dead on arrival
<aeth>
Right, my joke is that writing a compiler for Itanium is a job that probably no one here is even capable of doing.
<p_l>
no, that's writing a sufficiently advanced optimizer for Itanium
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<TheInformaticist>
OK, this is weird. ERC is automatically signing me into #lisp when I log in (or freenode is). Any idea why?
<Aurora_v_kosmose>
TheInformaticist: Probably ought to ask in #emacs or #lispcafe
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<TheInformaticist>
#freenode
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<Nilby>
The Alpha was the machine that was the fastest the longest in an office that got every new computer, so it was quite far ahead. It was a decent choice to to put Genera on.
<p_l>
Alpha was very clean and modern architecture
<p_l>
at few points too modern
<p_l>
which resulted in the insanity that was I/O on EV3/4/early 5
<loke>
TheInformaticist: ERC saves the channels you're on using customise.
<Aurora_v_kosmose>
I found which lists it uses and passed along the info on #emacs
<p_l>
Alpha was also one of the few "actually Reduced instruction set RISCs"
<Nilby>
Sometimes I think some exec at intel asked some exec at HP to buy alpha and kill it so they didn't have to worry anymore.
<p_l>
Nilby: killing off Alpha happened under Compaq
<p_l>
Compaq's purchase of DEC was... complicated
<p_l>
best summary I figured ever was that Compaq was very happy being intel's sock puppet and figured being competitors wasn't in their plans and happily folded when intel announced their "RISC killer"
<p_l>
then, after merger with HP, everyone found out that Chipzilla released a lame duck, and HP was forced by the market to restart production of last alpha design
<p_l>
the only remaining non-HP itanium vendor quickly turned out to be SGI, and they ended up both dumping it, moving to Xeons, and being bought by shitty company (Rackable)
<Nilby>
p_l: Interesting. Thank you for the history. I always wondered a bit about it.
<p_l>
Nilby: major groups involved in Alpha development were taken by surprise, among them Microsoft and Compaq (formerly DEC) "NT on Alpha" team
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<Nilby>
It always seemed suspect how such a good chip like Alpha lost to the lame Itanium.
<p_l>
a lot of the rest of the industry got scared of the chipzilla
<Nilby>
They are/were a bit scary
<p_l>
well, last few years showed they are a colossus on rather weak legs
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<p_l>
not only process updates, the real strength behind intel, failed, but also various dirty tricks they picked up to keep the precious single-core speeds up ended up backfiring spectacularly
<Nilby>
indeed
<p_l>
the CPUID/rdrand failure was I think most spectacular
<Nilby>
I guess we can be proud that sbcl went from alpha to risc-v, skipping itanium
<p_l>
not sure if they finally found a way to fix it without horrible slowdown
<Nilby>
yeah, i now regard the intel chips with a bit of suspicion, and wish they would just let us program the microcode
<p_l>
the microcode isn't really that useful given how often it changes
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<p_l>
it's not like access to CMS on Transmeta or its equivalent on nVidia Denver chips
<Nilby>
and I guess then we would see all the bugs/misfeatures
<p_l>
Nilby: you'd need full knowledge of the chip to figure them out
<p_l>
especially since it's not guaranteed that everything is microcode
<p_l>
and the microcode engine itself is pipelined, iirc
<prumnopytis>
Hey, does anyone know about using GPGME's cl [cffi] ? I found I wasn't able to successfully asdf load it under sbcl 2.0.5
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<prumnopytis>
I'm not really sure how to debug asdf's COMPILE-FILE-ERROR. it caches a fasl, but I'm not sure what it wants to tell me.
<Nilby>
p_l: maybe someday they'll do microscopy to vhdl/simulator and we'll see, but in the meantime I'm glad to be able to bring any chip to a crawl with CL.
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<prumnopytis>
Also sorry to come late to a party but Nilby are you talking about running common lisp on some interesting chips? I was ignoring some research I should probably read somewhere and it sounds like you might be talking about that.
<p_l>
well, on the interesting and actually powerful front is recent revival of SBCL on power, including proper 64bitness iirc
<p_l>
hopefully the issues with POWER10's openness are solved and RCS will make POWER10 systems too :<
<aeth>
POWER's problem is that it's too expensive. Billion dollar companies will gladly rely on FOSS libraries written by hobbyists, but those hobbyists probably only have access to x86-64 and ARM.
<p_l>
aeth: RCS made computers in the same price range as x86-64 workstations (actual workstations, that is)
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<p_l>
anyway, had some project ideas that would have worked great with RCS hw
<p_l>
but I'm in no position to even pitch them
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<aeth>
p_l: Yeah, actual workstations. Meanwhile, you can get a budget 12-core not-quite-workstation for the price of a 3900X.
<p_l>
aeth: true. That's why the projects I mentioned would have significant benefits related to not having x86 hollywood&netflix-encumbered cpus
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<prumnopytis>
Interesting but not exactly my area of hardware design. So there was a 2020 tech show debut of some scalable parallel processing-y machine (POWER10).
<prumnopytis>
My GPGME quest:
<prumnopytis>
./gpgme-config --have-lang="cl"
<prumnopytis>
> 0 (indicating succes)
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<sm2n>
prumnopytis, from what I recall, when I looked into it a while back, gpgme's cl bindings are unmaintained for a long time and have bitrotted
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<prumnopytis>
Thanks sm2n
<prumnopytis>
I found that gentoo's package management has stuck to a somewhat ancient version of sbcl, but allegedly also has gpgme [and gpg-error] for cl for that. I wonder if that's why that's like that.
<prumnopytis>
sm2n: I mean that's the fallback I was planning, but everywhere in gpgme's docs it said "no, don't do specifically that use gpgme" so I was wondering if I was just insufficiently powerful with asdf
<prumnopytis>
gpgme as a C library seems to be totally fine, so I was hoping to do something a little more formal than run-programming gpg. But for now I shall just do as you say
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<Nilby>
Good morning
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<borei>
good morning/good afternoon
<Inline>
morning
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<phoe>
hellooooo
<beach>
Hey phoe.
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<phoe>
hey hi beach
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<easye>
Mornin' beach, phoe, all.
<Inline>
morning
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<shangul>
What choices do I have for a library similar to Python's requests(HTTP client)? Other than drakma and dexador
<schweers>
I have to admit that I only used drakma a little bit and tried out daxador even more briefly, so I can’t comment on how good these options are
<shangul>
Thanks :)
<pve>
I've used drakma a lot, and have no complaints
<pve>
although I think I did need to wrap it a bit, specifically to bail if a download is too large
<iissaacc>
is there something built in i can use to recursively search a list? I've ended up with a lot of homemade functions that do this
<phoe>
iissaacc: what do you mean by search a list?
<iissaacc>
search for and return a subtree that matches some predicate, like (eq (car subtree) :select)
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<phoe>
you want to search all CARs and CDRs?
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<jmercouris>
iissaacc: you could just flatten the list and then search it
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<jmercouris>
it really depends on how often you must search the list, and if the position in the recursive structure is relevant to your needs
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<shangul>
How to tell dexador to ignore verifying certificates for HTTPS connections?
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<shangul>
hmm
<shangul>
Then why am I using HTTPS?
<shangul>
:D
<shangul>
Forget my question
<dlowe>
because mitm is still harder than just capturing packets
<dlowe>
if the client allows, you could also pin the cert so that the one site is guaranteed to use that one certificate, which will also thwart mitm attacks
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<warweasle>
Well, I tried ##C++ but most of them never heard of Unification. Any idea if there is a unification library in C/C++?
<sm2n>
clasp+cl-unification
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<warweasle>
Looking it up. Is that in C++ or lisp?
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<warweasle>
OH, clasp is a lisp..
<warweasle>
Yeah, that won't work with unreal engine.
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<jackdaniel>
maybe libecl.so + cl-unification?
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<gendl>
Hi, why would my remote slime connection get "broken by remote peer" instead of going into the debugger, when I hit an error.
<warweasle>
gendl: Sounds like you crashed your lisp server.
<gendl>
warweasle: nope. Server is still there, I can do M-x slime-connect and connect to it again
<warweasle>
And it's not creating a new instance?
<gendl>
i'm tunneled through ssh, so I use e.g. M-x slime-connect to localhost port 4249
<gendl>
nope, it's the same instance -- although that's a good question, let me double check that
<gendl>
indeed the server is running in an infinite recovery loop so you may be on to something
<gendl>
should have said "i _assume_ it's the same instance.."
<warweasle>
That's why I ask stupid questions.
<warweasle>
I have to be willing to be stupid before I can learn something new...
<gendl>
Hmm i have a 46GB log file.. i wonder if something could be amiss...
<warweasle>
gendl: Seems you mistyped a 'G' instead of a 'k'.
<gendl>
nope you read that right. Giga.
<warweasle>
My gawd man. It's full of errors!
<gendl>
seems the server process had been constantly crashing on initialization and getting re-spawned. the startup banner and messages are repeated in the log file a gazillion times.
<gendl>
soon it would have blown out my hard disk capacity.
<warweasle>
Well, that's no fun. Tell it to stop.
<gendl>
it wasn't slime/swank crashing the lisp -- the lisp was repeatedly crashing on its own.
<gendl>
I did. killed the infinite recovery loop.
<warweasle>
Yeah... Whenever something is wrong I always assume I did it. Generally, every library I download is much better than anything I could write myself.
<gendl>
anyway sorry for the noise, problem identified and nothing to do with slime/swank -- my init is broken...
<gendl>
warweasle: sage advice
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<warweasle>
gendl: Happens. We all help make the world a slightly better place.
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<daphnis>
does common lisp have anything corresponding to elisps pcase?
<beach>
What does pcase do?
<_death>
there are libraries for pattern matching
<daphnis>
tests whether a predicate applies to the variable, rather than whether it is equal to a value
<beach>
"variable"? If it is anything like ordinary CASE, it computes the value of an arbitrary form before checking the cases.
<_death>
cond the ultimate
<beach>
It should be easy to write a macro that does that.
<daphnis>
oh, maybe i'm just looking for cond
<mseddon>
daphnis: It's a good go-to form ;)
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<remexre>
anyone know of bindings to signal (the chat program)? libsignal-protocol-c is gross enough that I'd rather not write the cffi glue myself if I don't have to :)
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<Xach>
(not all failures are related to sbcl's recent change)
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<Xach>
If you see one of your projects there it would be great to update it!
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<beach>
That's quite a list.
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<Xach>
there is some redundancy - if project A fails, and is used by B, C, and D, all four will show the same failure error.
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<Xach>
The end result is the same: none of them work
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<beach>
I see.
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<Bike>
huh, some of these look fairly obvious. like :type (simple-array ...) :initform nil
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<Xach>
i think they are almost all of that form, with a small number of package locks/conflicts.
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<Xach>
I should analyze the errors and determine which fixes give the most bang for the buck
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<Xach>
(automatically, and add that to all future reports)
<easye>
jackdaniel: thanks.
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<jasom>
why should :initform cause an issue with :type? I'm confused
<jasom>
I would do :initform nil if I wanted to require it be specified when constructed, for example.
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<Xach>
I don't know, but current SBCL will reject such code at compile time.
<jasom>
That probably breaks a lot of the code I've written
<Xach>
I have not closely followed the discussion around the change, only that it seems to be here to stay.
<mfiano>
It doesn't. If you declare a type, it is now a warning if the initial value's type is not of the declared type. You can always use a compelx type specifier to include null
<jackdaniel>
jasom: (foo :initform nil :type integer) is invalid
<jackdaniel>
if you don't supply it
<jackdaniel>
or, to be exact, it is undefined behavior
<jasom>
jackdaniel: fair enough.
<jackdaniel>
what you want is (fo :initarg :foo :type integer)) :default-initargs :foo (alexandria:required-arg 'foo))
<jackdaniel>
or something in this spirit
<jasom>
does it do the same thing with structures?
<jackdaniel>
eventually (foo :initform nil :type (or integer null))
<mfiano>
Structures is an error if the type doesn't match at compile time, at least on SBCL
<jasom>
warning, not error, right mfiano?
<mfiano>
Error
<jackdaniel>
with structures you are even deeper in trouble, because type is used for inlined access and accessor-functions may be used for type inferenc3e
<jackdaniel>
inference*
<jackdaniel>
so you could end up with inlined assembler instruction which adds fixnum to a string ,)
<jasom>
2.0.0. doesn't even warn
<jasom>
switching to alexandria:required-arg from nil is easy enough; thanks for pointing that out jackdaniel
<jackdaniel>
sure
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<mfiano>
Xach: Yeah, I always wanted that from the failure reports. Would be nice to display it as a tree structure with root nodes sorted by "most bang for the buck". For example glkit is not located in proximity to sdl2kit or sketch, but it is the cause of their failures.
<mfiano>
(guess that would be a forest structure)
<Xach>
hu.dwim.web-server and hu.dwim.rdbms account for nearly 60 of the failures.
<Xach>
claw is second with 23. then cl-csv with 12, cl-messagepack with 10, cl-cffi-gtk with 10, db-cp with 6, and diminishing from there.
<mfiano>
claw can be easily fixed. I already pinged borodust. He has to backport a PR that was recently merged into cl-autowrap, what claw is derived from.
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<Xach>
excellent
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<Xach>
i have emailed attila re: hu.dwim stuff
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<ebrasca>
Why encoding and decoding is hard problem?
<ebrasca>
Like from octets and strings to structures.
<Xach>
ebrasca: is it considered a hard problem?
<Xach>
I hadn't really noticed.
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<ebrasca>
Xach: Do you know some good encoder/decoder for bynary data?
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<mfiano>
com.gigamonkeys.binary-data among many others
<mfiano>
Did you read PCL?
* ebrasca
is searching what is "PCL".
<jasom>
ebrasca: fast-io works for this too, though it's original purpose was for writing to byte-vectors it supports streams as well
<jasom>
!minion tell ebrasca about pcl
<Xach>
ebrasca: there are so many options
<jasom>
minion: tell ebrasca about pcl
<minion>
ebrasca: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
<mfiano>
fast-io is more for reading and writing octets. Binary parsing is at a different level.
<jasom>
mfiano: it is not for reading/writing octets, it can read binary values from 8-64 bits with specified endian
<jasom>
s/not for/not just for/
<mfiano>
This I know. I helped develop it :)
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<jasom>
ebrasca: do you just want serialization/deserialization, or do you want to read externally specified binary formats?
<mfiano>
Point being, it is a tool for binary parsing, and requires no knowledge of compiler theory to function, unlike binary parsing.
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<ebrasca>
I have read big part of PCL.
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<mfiano>
Maybe read the CD database practical chapter again.
<mfiano>
It does go into one method (although very unorthodox) to parse binary data.
<ebrasca>
What about mixed endianes , split fields and other strange things ?
<mfiano>
A friend wrote that specifically for that use case for me, because there were not any robust solutions available at the time.
<Xach>
It is also not particularly hard to write it yourself, and is quite educational. the tools cl provides are quite adequate building blocks to build up abstractions.
<mfiano>
You can check out flac-metadata, for an example of using fast-io and bitio in a mixed endian format. FLAC is BE for most fields, but does include Ogg Vorbis data which is LE.
<ebrasca>
There is 1 value in two places s_blocks_count_lo and s_blocks_count_hi
<ebrasca>
But s_blocks_count_hi is only used if 64bit support is set.
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<mfiano>
Mixed [byte] endianess is incredibly easy to handle. Things can get complicated without good abstractions when trying to handle bit endianness
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<Xach>
ebrasca: that is a matter of doing some math along with an IF form
<ebrasca>
s_blocks_count_lo is at offset #x4 and s_blocks_count_hi is at offset #x150 , both have 32 bits size and little endian
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<ebrasca>
I don't like to define structure , reader and writer separately.
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* Xach
blogs about the breakage
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<aeth>
The only problematic thing witht he new SBCL change is that SBCL went from completely ignoring :type in DEFCLASS at default optimization levels to not ignoring :type in a niche case that other implementations probably don't check (while still otherwise ignoring :type in DEFCLASS at default optimization levels)
<aeth>
s/witht he/with the/
<aeth>
The only problem with not using (error foo) as a default value to keyword (including the ones generated by :initform) or optional arguments is SLIME's minibuffer behavior, which creates a lot of noise when the default value is (error 'foo "bar baz quux") when the only relevant thing to the user of the API is that the default value is (error)
<aeth>
s/with not using/with using/
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<mseddon>
aeth: I don't understand but as a user of SBCL I want to understand more.
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<mseddon>
(I am a cautious upgrader, for reasons like this)
<aeth>
Unless this is more extensive than the 2.0.8 changes that got rolled back just before release, this is only for DEFCLASS's :iniform and perhaps DEFSTRUCT default slots (I didn't test the latter) and there are even more invalid APIs in the general case of a function with &optional or &keyword arguments with DECLAREd types that contradict the provided default values.
<aeth>
This would have made more sense to check since SBCL actually checks these.
<mseddon>
ick, and that is a bit of a messy part of the spec too.
<mseddon>
surprised that slipped through though.
<mseddon>
so what happens, you lose type checking? or full segfault doom?
<aeth>
mseddon: In 2.0.8 and before, SBCL ignores :type entirely in DEFCLASS when (safety 3) isn't true, or when speed > safety, or something like that. Essentially, by default, :type is a meaningless thing in SBCL, so probably the majority of Common Lispers have never really faced a :type that actually, really checks.
<mseddon>
:|
<aeth>
In 2.0.9, SBCL does a tiny bit of type checking, to make sure that the :initform is a valid form of the slot's :type in DEFCLASS.
<mseddon>
I mean I happen to declaim that during development, but I would expect this for much lower values of safety.
<aeth>
(SBCL's official stance has always been to use DEFSTRUCT if you care about types because those are optimizable.)
<aeth>
(Or at least the stance of their developers if questioned on IRC.)
<mseddon>
wait, what. I thought defclass was efficient now?
<mseddon>
(spoilers, I still think it is)
<aeth>
mseddon: You wouldn't segfault if the type is invalid (except perhaps at (safety 0) when all bets are off), but you would probably get a runtime error. Except with DEFCLASS, which will only give you that runtime error if (debug 3) and otherwise act like everything's fine if you (setf (foo your-instance) 42) when that slot is, idk, of type conses or something.
<mseddon>
but that runtime error is a false positive
<aeth>
(DEFSTRUCT will give you errors on setting or constructing things with slots of invalid types)
<mseddon>
(and in the case of defclass, terrifyingly sounds like a false positive)
<mseddon>
aeth: if you find the time to put up an example, I would be happy to rock up alongside you and wave my pitchfork.
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<aeth>
mseddon: (setf (foo your-instance) 42) if foo is the accessor for a DEFCLASS slot with :type single-float is an error, it's just that SBCL won't check for it at default optimization levels. It will be an error in e.g. CCL.
<aeth>
Take this class: (defclass foobar () ((%foo :initform 0f0 :initarg :foo :accessor foo :type single-float)))
<aeth>
Now take this setter which is invalid: (setf (make-instance 'foobar) 1)
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<aeth>
That might error, that might not. In CCL, that does error. In SBCL, even though SBCL is otherwise the best implementation at checking types, that doesn't error unless the DEFCLASS is defined in a (debug 3) environment (iirc... it certainly doesn't at default).
<aeth>
Now, replace ":initform 0f0" with ":initform nil". In CCL, that's a runtime type error when calling (make-instance 'foobar) unless a valid value for foo is provided. The appropriate way to do this, though, is to make the initform a call to ERROR.
<aeth>
In many implementations, it's just ignored entirely and the invalid NIL default value is permitted, including SBCL 2.0.8 at default optimization levels.
<mseddon>
okay, I promote that to false negative and cry.
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<aeth>
Now according to NEWS at http://www.sbcl.org/news.html SBCL 2.0.9 does this: "the compiler signals a warning at compile-time when an initform of T, NIL or 0 does not match a STANDARD-CLASS slot's declared type."
<mseddon>
I wonder how that new behaviour slipped through?
<mseddon>
it seems somehow debug <= 2 is "all bets are off" mode, which is way to early
<aeth>
SBCL (an implementation people generally use for the static checking) now does a tiny, tiny bit of static checking in a case where it previously did no checking at all, but only when the :initform is T, NIL, or 0
<mseddon>
aeth: no, this is the thing, I expect SBCL to fall at the first hurdle, and use it because it does.
<aeth>
(SBCL generally does static checking as compile time warnings that compile into runtime errors)
<Bike>
i'm curious why they didn't just do it for all constant initforms.
<aeth>
mseddon: Right, people are complaining because it does a bit of checking, whereas I got my hopes up that this edge case in SBCL type checking was finally fixed, when it's only fixed in a tiny, tiny, tiny special case.
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<drl>
How can I change the SBCL_HOME path?
<Inline>
in a running instance ?
<Inline>
or do you mean from the terminal ?
<aeth>
Bike: I'm also curious as to why this doesn't (at least didn't in the right-before-2.0.8 release I tested before it got rolled back for 2.0.8) do a similar check for DEFUNs with DECLAREd types incompatible with the default optional/keyword argument values. This one might even catch a few bugs in my code.
<mseddon>
aeth: I had an amazing boss once who told me the story of managing a project for a simple vector CAD program for a tutorial for a university lesson. It blew up if they added >5 shapes on the screen, he raised it, they got back something that blew up with >6 shapes on the screen...
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<Bike>
well that sounds like it would be a completely unrelated change
<mseddon>
aeth: this is not okay. :)
<Bike>
it's not as though initforms become keyword argument defaults
<aeth>
Bike: Depending on your perspective. You the user can see intforms as keyword argument defaults of a MAKE-INSTANCE. That's certainly how SLIME exposes them.
<Bike>
okay, but that's not how sbcl does it, and in fact it's kind of impossible with how mop works
<mseddon>
drl: what operating system are you using, MacOS, Linux, or Windows?
<aeth>
Bike: Yes, it would have to be checked in a different place, it is just, from the user's perspective, an extremely similar issue.
<drl>
mseddon, linux.
<mseddon>
drl: do you have a .bashrc or such?
<Bike>
i hope you now understand why they do not do a similar check
<mseddon>
drl: unless you changed your shell, it's usually .bashrc that configures your default shell (bash)
<drl>
mseddon, yes.
<mseddon>
drl: so if you add EXPORT SBCL_HOME=/path/to/your/sbcl/home at the bottom of that .bashrc
<aeth>
Bike: Sorry, I'm communicating it improperly. It's the same class of bug (a default value that cannot possibly be of the valid type, which when properly done should be a call to ERROR instead). It would just have to be checked differently.
<mseddon>
drl: from now on, after you OPEN a terminal or program, it should be set.
<Bike>
you said: "I'm curious why this doesn't do a similar check"
<Bike>
and the answer is that that would be a completely different change.
<aeth>
Bike: Internally, yes.
<mseddon>
drl: for least confusion, check it works in a shell after you add that, and then log out and in again, in case some old programs didn't realise that SBCL_HOME changed.
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<drl>
mseddon, thanks. I remember now setting it there a long time ago.
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<mseddon>
drl: np, make sure your shell environment is configured correctly, lisp requires this.
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<mseddon>
drl: sorry, I meant: "export SBCL_HOME=/your/path"
<mseddon>
drl: lower case export keyword.
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<drl>
How can you tell what version of SBCL that slime is using?
<drl>
SBCL_HOME environment variable is set, and conflicts with INSTALL_ROOT.
<drl>
Aborting installation. Unset one or reset the other, then try again
<drl>
SBCL_HOME=asdf/quicklisp
<drl>
INSTALL_ROOT=/usr/local
<drl>
What am I doing wrong?
<Xach>
drl: what are you trying to achieve?
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<aeth>
I personally just create a 3-line shell script (including #!/bin/bash in those 3 lines) in ~/bin to export SBCL_HOME and then call the SBCL executable from there.
<drl>
Xach, install the new git version of sbcl.
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<aeth>
drl: what I did to get it to work is this command: INSTALL_ROOT=/home/yourusernamegoeshere/.local sh ./install.sh
<aeth>
drl: and then in the script: export SBCL_HOME=/home/yourusernamegoeshere/.local/lib/sbcl
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<aeth>
Installing to /usr/local is something I don't mess with unless I have no other option, e.g. stumpwm (since I need to launch it like any other WM)
<aeth>
Installing to ~/.local and putting the binary (or a trivial shell script, like I do with SBCL) in ~/bin tends to have fewer issues ime
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<aeth>
The only catch is it might create files you want to exclude from your backups, like anything in ~/.local/lib and ~/.local/bin in this case
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<drl>
aeth, I'm wanting to reinstall stumpwm.
<aeth>
this might work in general to laucnh a custom, home-installed SBCL: export SBCL_HOME=~/.local/lib/sbcl && ~/.local/bin/sbcl
<aeth>
You might need to put the second part on its own line, though, idk edge cases in shell parsing
<aeth>
drl: afaik, stumpwm creates its own standalone executable when you install it, so even if you use the ~/.local/bin/sbcl executable, it will use that newer version to build the /usr/local/bin/stumpwm binary
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<drl>
aeth, If i set SBCL_HOME to anything but asdf/quicklisp I get and error message when I start slime.
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<drl>
Well, maybe not. I'm getting confused now. Nothing seem to be working as before.
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<Nilby>
drl: When I'm having such problems I usually make a new user, or use a "clean" with no files, and if it works there, then carefully and reversibly remove stuff from my environment until it works. Then I can maybe fix the problematic piece of setup.
<Nilby>
drl: If it's really trouble one can use fresh VM or something.
<drl>
aeth, I followed you directions, and it installed. But now I get this error message: core was built for runtime "lat-l-2020-09-28-06-53-18" but this is "lat-l-2020-09-14-16-03-37"
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<daphnis>
is there a cl function that turns a list of character codes into a string?
<Nilby>
(coerce '(#\f #\o #\o) 'string)
<Xach>
daphnis: (map 'string 'code-char list)
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<daphnis>
thanks!
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<Nilby>
use Xach's answer, it's is about 3x faster
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<aeth>
drl: I guess remove and reinstall? My guess is the ~/.local/lib/sbcl and ~/.local/bin/sbcl are using different SBCLs for whatever reason... or, alternatively, the correct SBCL_HOME isn't being used
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