<galex-713>
is there such an universal API for graphical toolkit(s) (like gtk/qt) for common lisp? or does each implementation have its own thing?
<no-defun-allowed>
Qtools for Qt, I haven't heard of anything for Gtk, but there is also McCLIM for CLIM which is all Lisp (and only supports the X window protocol officially).
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<markasoftware>
is there a better way to capture the value of a loop variable in a lambda during every loop iteration than (loop for i from 0 to 5 collect (let ((k i)) (lambda () k))) ?
<markasoftware>
(If I do not bind k to the value of i, then all the lambdas will return 6 -- the final value of i)
<beach>
Correct.
<beach>
So it's either capturing it in a closure or in some data structure.
<beach>
Er, the data structure would not hold the variable, of course, but the value.
<markasoftware>
i see, i guess i will learn to live with the extra (let)
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<galex-713>
no-defun-allowed: is Qtools portable? do you have some link too?
<galex-713>
thank you very much again btw
<beach>
Why would you choose an FFI solution over a native one?
<no-defun-allowed>
I haven't used it, but I would say so.
<White_Flame>
massive list here, old & new, with clim and lots of ffi stuff: https://cliki.net/GUI
<galex-713>
beach: by native, do you mean something like CLIM?
<no-defun-allowed>
beach: It might be necessary if one wants to write graphical programs that run on Windows or macOS without an X server (with established backends).
<beach>
galex-713: I suppose it is not written in Common Lisp, so yes.
<no-defun-allowed>
Qt is written in C++, so it is not native to Lisp.
<galex-713>
no-defun-allowed: for compatibility, I would like
<galex-713>
interoperability with existing widgets, other applications
<galex-713>
better integration
<beach>
Good luck with the debugging.
<no-defun-allowed>
And admittedly, I only write GUIs when absolutely necessary; my domain is basically backend stuff.
<galex-713>
beach: thank you
<White_Flame>
and I tend to stick to HTML GUIs, for the for-free multiuser & remoting
<contrapunctus>
White_Flame: "multiuser and remoting"? 🤔
<White_Flame>
yeah, 1 process, any number of sockets from anywhere each with a gui
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<contrapunctus>
I see...
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<markasoftware>
is there a canonical way to create an empty string that is safe to modify?
<markasoftware>
I've heard that literals are not safe to modify
<markasoftware>
make-string, nvm
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<iissaacc>
what's the time complexity of hash-table-count?
<beach>
It would be surprising if it were more than O(1). But the standard has no opinion about it.
<White_Flame>
it's not specified, but sbcl at least maintains a count so it's just a single slot lookup
<iissaacc>
O(1) or O(n)? seems like the count is part of the hash data from "#<HASH-TABLE :TEST EQUAL :COUNT 4 {1001AE9963}>"
<iissaacc>
oh cool
<beach>
It would be surprising because, in order to determine whether to grow or shrink the table after each operation, it has to compare the count to the threshold.
<beach>
So if it were O(n), then that would make each operation O(n) as well.
<iissaacc>
right
<no-defun-allowed>
Using the segmenting implementation of concurrent-hash-tables leads to a slow (but still O(1)) hash-table-count, as it must lock each segment to get each sub-count.
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<no-defun-allowed>
Odds are you aren't using that, but it could feasibly be a CL hash table implementation. (And resizing is done per segment/sub-table, so it doesn't affect the performance of resizing.)
<beach>
I guess the count does not have to be checked for each operation. Only from time to time.
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<iissaacc>
good to know, thanks folks
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<ldb>
good afternoon
<no-defun-allowed>
Hello ldb
<ldb>
no-defun-allowed: hi
<ldb>
I think loke has made a McCLIM fronted for Maxima
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<beach>
Indeed, it is called Climaxima.
<beach>
Not sure what letters should be capitalized.
<no-defun-allowed>
Don't worry, it is still 1972, no one has fancy teletypes that can write CLIMAXIMA and LISP other than in all-caps. (Apologies for the non-fresh joke.)
<markasoftware>
nevermind it already crashed
<no-defun-allowed>
markasoftware: A link preview was generated here, but when I open a browser window to see that, it cannot connect.
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<ldb>
beach: from the project description Climaxima uses FreeType to render symbols, does that mean the specified fonts are required to be present?
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<markasoftware>
link should work now
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<beach>
ldb: I don't know. You could ask loke.
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<aeth>
markasoftware: You might also want make-array instead of make-string because it has more options.
<aeth>
markasoftware: In particular, you can (make-array 8 :element-type 'character :adjustable t :fill-pointer 0) (for some arbitrary size, not just 8) to get a string that you can vector-push-extend to
<aeth>
I often do this sort of algorithm to create a fixed-length string of an unknown length: (let ((s (make-array 8 :element-type 'character :adjustable t :fill-pointer 0))) (vector-push-extend #\A s) (subseq s 0 (fill-pointer s)))
<aeth>
There's probably a few other ways to do it other than SUBSEQ, e.g. (coerce s 'simple-string)
<scymtym>
ldb: the freetype-based font sub-system locates and renders fonts more like a, say, GTK application would. so it is better at finding and selecting fonts which are present on the system (compared McCLIM's native font sub-system). that is independent of the questions whether climaxima requires special fonts and whether those are distributed with climaxima
<aeth>
Hmm... Okay, it looks like the SUBSEQ one is mandated by the standard as a way of getting a fresh simple array with otherwise the same type. I guess it makes sense because you wouldn't always want the whole length like with COERCE so if it didn't work like this you'd sometimes have to copy twice instead of once. http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_subseq.htm
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<phoe>
beach: could you send me the abstract for your current talk?
<phoe>
(I'm sorry for losing it, again - I promise to be better in the future)
<beach>
I don't think I sent one.
<beach>
This is for next week, yes?
<beach>
phoe: I'll do it this afternoon. I am a bit busy with SICL work right now.
<beach>
By the way, when is the meeting this week?
<phoe>
beach: Wednesday. I am heavily disorganized and am only sending the mails right now. I apologize.
<beach>
Not a problem for me. You'll have the abstract for my talk text week sometime this afternoon.
<phoe>
;; I perhaps should not do such things while running low on sleep since they are prone to errors, but I guess that an invitation with errors is better than no invitation
<contrapunctus>
phoe: worse is better 😏
<beach>
APL means "A Programming Language", not "Array Programming Language", unless the abstract refers to something different.
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<phoe>
beach: it likely means "the APL", just with a backronymed modification of the name
<phoe>
but then again, I'm just a messenger here
<beach>
Sure.
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<p_l>
phoe: pretty sure it wasn't a backronym, though it shares a similar trait with Lisp in its origins as pure theory early on
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<phoe>
p_l: yes, it's A Programming Language, but I've seen plenty of people nowadays refer to it as "Array PL" in informal contexts
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<phoe>
aaaaa
<phoe>
the first ProgAlgs review for Apress is done.
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<phoe>
this took me a long while to do and should result in an even better book overall
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<beach>
phoe: Congratulations! And thanks for doing that!
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<phoe>
beach: my pleasure. ; and exhaustion, but that one will pass in a few days
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<phoe>
beach: thanks, I will submit the invitation today.
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<beach>
Sounds good.
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<Xach>
hmm, it would be nice to undefine a method from xref.
<Xach>
and also to refresh it with "g"
<AeroNotix>
do you get much value out of xref? I've used it but not worked it into my workflow much
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<AeroNotix>
huh weird you popped up, just added a dep to your timers package in something I am using
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<Xach>
AeroNotix: oh no! that project is now part of SBCL and should not be used on its own.
<AeroNotix>
Xach: oh ok, cool
<Xach>
see sb-timer, i think
<AeroNotix>
I saw the sb interface to it and assumed that you had wrapped it in the timers library in the hopes you would make it support cross-implementation, eventually
<Xach>
no, it was the other way around
<AeroNotix>
gotcha ok
<Xach>
i invented the api, and sbcl cloned it
<Xach>
well, not really
<AeroNotix>
Well, this thing I am writing is tied pretty heavily to sbcl any way
<Xach>
i stole it from lispworks!
<AeroNotix>
lol
<Xach>
but i wrote the code for sbcl, and sbcl folded it in
<AeroNotix>
gotcha, oke doke then
<Xach>
your interpretation is funny to me, but only because i know the history from 17 years ago
<Xach>
TIMER can almost vote in the USA!
<AeroNotix>
yeah it's just that you see google results as a point in time, you're not given the full history of everything. I see the sbcl API, I see the timer API, my assumption is that your timers exists because sbcl is implementation specific
<AeroNotix>
but w/e. I already use a tonne of `sb-*` APIs in this project
<Xach>
I should add a note to my page
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<AeroNotix>
yeah might help others
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* Xach
does so now
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<Xach>
pve: cool!
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<pve>
Xach: :)
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<pve>
still needs a mode hook or define-key
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<AeroNotix>
if I have used cffi:defcallback to define a callback, should I be able to call it with cffi:foreign-funcall-pointer?
<AeroNotix>
I am getting: Unhandled memory fault at #x0.
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<AeroNotix>
oh em gee
<_death>
AeroNotix: to get a pointer you need to use (cffi:callback name)
<AeroNotix>
I've figured it out
<AeroNotix>
I was using a progn to foreign-allocate and set up a struct, but I wasn't returning the struct from it, d'oh
<AeroNotix>
think I've solved it now
<AeroNotix>
d'oh yeah that was it. I was returning a setf call which was a pointer itself, so my debugging made me think it was the func pointer I wanted rather than some random other pointer I was using
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<tychoish>
hey, so I'm having trouble loading swank (in stumpwm; built from quicklisp with recent SBCL; using slime from melpa) and I keep getting sb-cltl2 load/find errors, and I can't reproduce the error outside of stump
<Bike>
like what error, it can't fidn sb-cltl2 to load it?
<tychoish>
yep
<Bike>
swank does require sb-cltl2, but if it's only broken with stump that's uh, weid
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<tychoish>
agreed. (my outside-of-stump reproduction was in a slime session, which admittedly could have been tainted in a different way)
<_death>
check SBCL_HOME.. stumpwm (used to?) munge with it
<tychoish>
I did rebuild that after finding something on stack overflow
<tychoish>
and just did it again to be sure
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<tychoish>
bam _death that was it... I set it at compile time but not at build time.
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<phoe>
read which sb-socket functions are called by it
<AeroNotix>
yeah I missed at first, my bad
<phoe>
:D
<phoe>
;; but no, seriously, do use usocket later
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<AeroNotix>
No, I don't want/need to. It's not really doing much for me, plus there are some internals I am kinda relying on
<AeroNotix>
the sb-bsd-sockets source makes reference to the _actual_ sockaddr struct, so I am looking specifically for that. I can reconstruct it using the public APIs - but wondering if there's a way to get it from the socket directly
<AeroNotix>
yeah I'll use `sb-bsd-sockets:with-socket-fd-and-addr`
<AeroNotix>
*::
<AeroNotix>
it's internal
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