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<Plazma>
So is there a list somewhere that goes over what lisp may not be good at or the right tools for?
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<xristos>
Plazma: anything UI-related, web, parallelism, minimalism, embedded scripting, maybe multimedia and games
<xristos>
this is for CL, my personal views, others will disagree ;p
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<xristos>
you can do all of these things in CL, but you'll be swimming against the tide
<xristos>
i'm also ignoring the commercial CL implementations that have solutions to some of these domains
<phantomics>
CL is great for building React apps
<phantomics>
Instead of using something like Redux to implement a consistent data model across components, you can use a macro that implements components based on a common template
<phantomics>
That way you avoid the inconsistency of hand-wired components but you're not piling on more stuff at runtime
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<Plazma>
Wow xristos what's left for it to be good at :p
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<xristos>
Plazma: what's left is exactly what you should be using CL for
<xristos>
problems that don't have well-defined solutions
<Plazma>
Ah fair enough
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<xristos>
i'd also posit that a lot of people here are willing to put in extra effort and time, to solve a problem with CL even if CL is not a good fit
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<xristos>
for many reasons
<Lycurgus>
and yet how often you see something you think should be in lisp (or similar) and sometimes in fact was, but now it is java or python
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<Lycurgus>
like the knowledge engineering text from 2016 whose implementation was done in java
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<xristos>
Lycurgus: well if you used Lisp to explore the domain and come up with a solution and later decide to rework it to be more accessible in a different language, no harm done
<xristos>
Lisp has done its job in my book
<Lycurgus>
in my book: harm
<Lycurgus>
barring contractual obligations and the like
<Lycurgus>
it generally comes across as a sell out so that a broader application of labor is possible
<Lycurgus>
and it's always great when you see stuff that didn. e.g. SNEPS, which actually did a lil bit but then went back
<Lycurgus>
that's somewhat common too
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<Lycurgus>
btw if Parmenides is being revived can FRuleKit be far behind?
<Lycurgus>
going back to cl is less common than staying sold out or bit rotting
<Lycurgus>
at least keep the cl version current and the main dev one
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<_death>
Lycurgus: I added frulekit code yesterday.. it shouldn't be hard to get it to run
<Lycurgus>
(i already had the last source state ofc)
<_death>
I am playing programmer ping pong.. currently waiting for someone else to do some work before I resume
<Lycurgus>
non-cooperatively?
<Lycurgus>
i.e by serendip oder?
<_death>
Lycurgus: cooperatively.. you can fork, make changes and pull request, and then I'll do changes, and then you, etc.
<Lycurgus>
i c
<_death>
for the frulekit code, the first step is to create an asdf system for it.. then get it to compile and load
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<jcowan>
xristos: I thought ECL was all about embedded scripting.
<aeth>
I'd object to the "parallelism" part. CL is better than the median language at parallelism. I mean, some languages aren't even parallel at all so... probably in the top 20%, if not better.
<Lycurgus>
actually the first step for frulekit is evaluate it as a rete in today's context
<aeth>
e.g. Python has the GIL (and you can't just remove it in third party implementations because of the implicit race conditions in popular libraries that no one tested for)... OCaml is still trying to be updated for multicore. And a bunch of other examples...
<aeth>
So quite a few languages have a much bleaker situation here, unlike, say, UI, where CL's user experience currently really is pretty bad
<Lycurgus>
well raggedy i'd call it, not actually bad, just a lot of ports that didn make it all the way to fungible
<Lycurgus>
yet
<Lycurgus>
stuff close to base clx seems to be OK last I checked
<Lycurgus>
no doubt a general reflorit will goose that into shape
<Lycurgus>
(of lisp as the AI lang of choice)
<Lycurgus>
haskell is a role model, it's amazing how far they've come in the last 15 y
<Lycurgus>
(overall not UI specifically)
<Lycurgus>
these days UI kinda wants to be in js, is there a cl ui thing that goes in that direction?
<Lycurgus>
like squeakjs
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<Lycurgus>
moin beach
<xristos>
jcowan: it sure is but i'd pick Lua every time
<xristos>
or pick from any number of schemes
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<copec>
[I'm doing some experimenting with my own pseudo-graph engine] Would it be considered bad form to defclass a new subclass with mixins determined by the data when opening a file of my own format?
<beach>
I don't see why it would be bad.
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<copec>
Do you happen to know how the various implementation store object instances of a class beach? Is each instance its own discrete object in memory? Or is it more like a table with instances versus slots for each class?
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<copec>
The AoMOP book example does it like a table iirc
<beach>
I can't imagine any implementation other than the former. The objects must be subject to garbage collection as any other object, so they would have to be allocated like any others.
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<beach>
I don't remember that example in the book, but if they did it that way, it must have been just an example for illustrating some point.
<copec>
Yeah, I figured it was for illustration purposes of lisp in lisp
<copec>
thanks beach
<beach>
Sure.
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<ebrasca>
How to check if string contain some text
<ebrasca>
like some text starting with "MAIL FROM:<" then some email adres and end with ">"
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<Josh_2>
regex?
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<treflip>
ebrasca: you need a regular expression
<ebrasca>
Josh_2: Can I check if email adress is correct with regex?
<no-defun-allowed>
Checking email validity with a regex is one of those highly cursed things you shouldn't do, but matching "MAIL FROM:<(.*)>" could work if I remember POSIX syntax right.
<no-defun-allowed>
I was looking for that exact post, but yes.
<no-defun-allowed>
But I don't think you'll see <> or whitespace in an email address, so (.*) would work fine.
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<AeroNotix>
hi - when converting between lisp numbers and C ints. How do I convert a C integer into a Lisp number?
<AeroNotix>
and vice versa
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<AeroNotix>
There's `cffi:translate-to-foreign` but it doesn't appear there's an implementation for ints. Even still, I am not sure exactly how you would translate.
<AeroNotix>
my initial thought is to write a function which would look at the raw memory and translate it that way. Am I thinking about this wrong?
<AeroNotix>
It feels super unergonomic when dealing with ints in CFFI and nothing I've seen in the documentation points to a simpler mechanism.
<AeroNotix>
specifically I am dealing with a C library that uses a lot of int*'s.
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<beach>
Maybe you can write a Common Lisp replacement for that library.
<AeroNotix>
beach: it's pretty complicated
<AeroNotix>
beach: any way it looks like I was just overlooking cffi:mem-ref
<beach>
So does your debugging experience seem to be.
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<AeroNotix>
beach: it's much easier to wrap a library implementing QUIC+HTTp3 than it is to write it from scratch :)
<beach>
For you individually, perhaps. But you would do a favor to others if you would write a Common Lisp replacement.
<AeroNotix>
beach: my rate is $95/h if you're interested
<beach>
I see.
<phoe>
AeroNotix: wait, a C integer into a Lisp number?
<AeroNotix>
phoe: yeah disregard, I think. I was overthinking things
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<phoe>
cffi:mem-ref with proper type
<phoe>
s/type/foreign type/
<AeroNotix>
yup that works. I was misunderstanding what it would do
<AeroNotix>
My understanding was flawed. I was thinking the memory layout / representation of a C int would be incompatible with Lisp numbers
<beach>
phoe: Maybe you should charge for that help.
<phoe>
it dereferences C pointers and converts the result into a Lisp value, so from an int* you get an int
<AeroNotix>
beach: I'd be happy to pay
<beach>
Good to know.
<AeroNotix>
beach: i get your initial point, but just suggesting to rewrite a complicated project in Lisp vs trying to use it directly is just a bonkers way to approach things :)
<phoe>
beach: sure, if the rate is $95 per hour then I'll get ~¢40 since answering that took me like ten seconds
<AeroNotix>
phoe: where do you want it sent. I can pay in PLN
<phoe>
it's a preorder at the moment, but I have just sent the final remarks to Apress so you could expect that the book would start being available later this month
<Plazma>
phoe: holy shit that's your book?
<phoe>
Plazma: yes, that's my book
<Plazma>
wow man congrats! i didn't know you were so well accomplished
<phoe>
neither did I
<phoe>
but it just happened one day
<Plazma>
nice
<Plazma>
i've got 2 books out there i'm a technical autho on
<Plazma>
author on
<mseddon>
Common lisp's condition system is massively.is
<Plazma>
but i did it for a fiend and to get recognition
<phantomics>
Very cool, this could help with April error handling
<mseddon>
Misunderstood* bleh. Sorry phones are awful.
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<phoe>
phantomics: gasp, I see you are here too
<phantomics>
intermittently
<mseddon>
I look forward to a dedicated treatment!
<phoe>
sure, and if you have any questions about how the CL condition system works then there's plenty of people who should be able to answer, including (hopefully) me
<Plazma>
i was expecting phoe to pass the buck on that one ( i wrote a book on it but please bug someone else) :P
<mseddon>
He's inadvertently advertised for the job. But so have you :p
<phoe>
well that could also be a good idea because of burnout, but hey, I guess I'm kinda qualified for answering CLCS questions now
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<borei>
oh, Condition system - just made big dive into it, would love to get book about it.
<borei>
available by the end of the month ?
<phoe>
uh, just looked - the current estimated date is october 9
<phoe>
so I might have just lied to you all
<phoe>
octovber 9th is what is on their page at the moment
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<borei>
Oct 9 - that is fine, don't see any problems with it.
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<dra>
Hello!
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