Turl changed the topic of #linux-sunxi to: Allwinner/sunxi development discussion - Don't ask to ask. Just ask and wait! - See http://linux-sunxi.org | https://github.com/linux-sunxi/ | Logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/linux-sunxi
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<aseigo> ssvb: it's about the actual state of affairs of documentation and coordination. which there is very little of. this isn't limited to sunxi; in fact, i was addressing the eoma68 crowd there.
<aseigo> libv: i'm sorry, use a different SoC? that's not a solution, that's avoiding the issue
<aseigo> libv: and yes, there is work from mdfe (as well as later by stskeeps, on hardware we sent him), but that doesn't cover the range of issues, which certainly are not limited to a10/a20 specifics
<libv> aseigo: you were talking about spark 2 years ago.
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<libv> aseigo: now try to think back to that time.
<libv> heh.
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<parabyte> hi i been looking and cant find the original source for the zet6221 driver
<parabyte> anyone know where i can find it
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<parabyte> is this the original driver?
<libv> aseigo: first off, think back to where the world was 2 years ago, when you were talking about the spark tablet
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<libv> aseigo: secondly, i like it when people improve documentation instead of talking about improving documentation
<aseigo> libv: i think you're missing the context of my email
<libv> aseigo: perhaps, but your attempt at using a freshly discovered bug to sort of prove that there is a fundamental flaw does not stop others from jumping to conclusions as well
<aseigo> libv: i have zero idea why an email to arm-netbook talking about these specific eoma68 cards asking for the possibility of having a coordination meeting online is interpreted by people working within linux-sunxi as not only focused on them but somehow a bad thing. just, amazing.
<aseigo> libv: you think i'm that .. stupid?
<aseigo> i mean. realy.
<aseigo> explain to me in which universe a moderately intelligent person would do such a thing
<aseigo> this is not a case of "woah, we hit some new bug here. sound the alarms."
<libv> aseigo: to me it is.
<aseigo> this is the Nth hurdle cleared in the last year, each of which has been poorly documented, not documented; and it goes beyond documentation
<libv> aseigo: when was this reported in here, on our ml or on the github sunxi-mali tracker?
<aseigo> where can someone go to see what is being worked on by whom? how can person X know which feature boards for eoma68 person Y is working on?
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<aseigo> libv: this == the opengl issue?
<libv> aseigo: as the main author of the sunxi-mali repo, i am amazed at how much of the planet is using this work
<libv> and how little of it trickles back
<libv> now if your gang is actively working like that too, then i am sorry, you do not get to complain
<aseigo> wait ... you're really amazed?
<aseigo> so, i ask "hey, is anybody interested in having a meeting to coordinate?"
<aseigo> and you get all passive aggressive here with things like "i like it when people improve documentation instead of talking about improving documentation"
<aseigo> and then you're *surprised* more doesn't "trickle back"?
<aseigo> c'mon
<aseigo> the way communities grow together, rather than apart, is by treating each other with modicums of respect, dropping the unwaranted skepticism and coordinating a little
<libv> why, is everyone talking about working with the main authors of the repository they are working with or having problems with?
<aseigo> your response is totally out of proportion to what was in my email
<aseigo> yes, actually
<aseigo> this really is _not_ about the opengl issue
<aseigo> if it were, i wouldn't've posted to the arm-netbook list in response to luke
<aseigo> and that response was about flashing the NAND
<aseigo> nothing whatever to do with opengl
<aseigo> i mention the opengl issue in passing in that email. for whatever reason, you've focused on that one sentence, and entirely passed over everything else of substance in it.
<aseigo> the opengl issue wasn't even about the opengl bug, but that there are fixes and workarounds others have found and it isn't documented anywhere
<aseigo> now, yes, i could run off right now and document it .. but. .. fucking WHERE?
<aseigo> there is nothing anywhere that lets me do this:
<aseigo> a) I have issue X with solution Y
<aseigo> b) I will document Y in [wiki|git repo|bugzilla|?] Z
<aseigo> there are three wikis that are in use, several mailing lists, a couple bug trackers and none are particularly well organized, kept up to date or documented
<aseigo> and you know what? that's ok, it happens, things grow organically
<aseigo> i'd like to put some effort into making that better
<aseigo> for whatever reason, wanting to do so gets some of you upset
<aseigo> perhaps a more useful response would be something like: "if you're willing to put time into improving those things, awesome! i look forward to seeing what you can do..."
<libv> aseigo: ok.
<aseigo> i mean, does that make any sense?
<parabyte> hi sorry bad time to ask have looked hard online is zet6221 in the sources
<parabyte> i looked up and down them and cant find it
<parabyte> i mean official version not wingrines version
<libv> aseigo: i eagerly await the results you are going to achieve.
<aseigo> oh, and btw, about 3 items down on my immediate issues list for this particular card is "ask libv about lima and get a build for it" <-- guess how motivated i feel about that right now?
<libv> aseigo: guess how motivated i am about doing an unbelievably hard task on my own, knowing full well that at the end of the journey, i only will get whined at more?
<aseigo> libv: have i whined at you?
<aseigo> (before you bitched at me here for the obscene suggestion of a coordination meeting)
<aseigo> libv: i totally get "doing an unbelievably hard task"
<aseigo> i've been in similar trenches for over a decade myself. i *get* it
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<aseigo> i'd like to see others involved and participating, doing crazy good things here
<aseigo> that doesn't happen without two things:
<aseigo> a) hardware that is backed by community
<aseigo> b) functional community
<aseigo> we're creeping towards (a) .. and (b) is achievable
<libv> a) we have had cubieboard and olimex for more than a year
<aseigo> i get that you are probably bitter about certain things, and i grant that you've probably earned the right to some of that
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<libv> b) linux-sunxi is a pretty functional community in my book
<aseigo> ok, you feel everything is perfect.
<aseigo> cool.
<libv> aseigo: far from it, but i know a lot of open source projects which are a lot worse
<aseigo> what kind of justification is that?
<aseigo> well, whatever.
<libv> justification for what?
<aseigo> justification for "pretty functional"
<libv> aseigo: i haven't lost any data yet, had my repos hacked, or have been refused commodity web resources so far
<aseigo> those are all positive things.
<libv> which puts it lightyears ahead of some other "communities" i've had to deal with
<aseigo> isn't that something of a low bar? i mean, honestly, that's not *enough*
<libv> plus, there is a load of movement, and from time to time people can even be moved to fix up the wiki
<aseigo> did i ever say there wasn't movement? or even "loads of movement?
<libv> maybe you should observe linux-sunxi a bit, and then compare it to any other arm project
<aseigo> you're starting to put words into my mouth in the process of defending linux-sunxi.org against a reproach i never made
<aseigo> you know what's amazing? your response here is precisely the sort of thing i was talking about in my first email
<aseigo> and your rebuttal to that is to simply demonstrate it more so.
* aseigo sighs
<aseigo> look, i'm happy your happy enough.
<aseigo> that's awesome.
<aseigo> from the perspective of someone trying to carry a community of developers onto a platform made of a mix of linux-sunxi.org and eoma68 using the elinux.org, linux-sunxi.org, rhobus-tech and arm-netbook resources .. it doesn't open the doors needed
<aseigo> and i'd like to open some of those doors; i'm not really interested in trying to figure out just how functional some aspect of that ecosystem is or discussing how bad other projecdts are because that's entirely uninteresting.
<aseigo> i'd just like to be able to know the directions people are headed in (that includes me and where i'm going), have the opportunity to coordinate more than is happening right now and have better documentation of things than we've experienced over the last year+
<aseigo> if you want to show up, participate and be productive in that, awesome. if you don't, that's totally cool too.
<aseigo> it would be awesome if you wouldn't shit on the parade before it even gets started, or get all defensive about things nobody is saying
<libv> aaron, i guess that this is the problem you are running into here... we do not feel that we need to be carried anywhere.
<libv> we do not feel that doors need to be opened between anyone
<aseigo> what part of "if you don't want to particpate, don't" is hard to understand?
<aseigo> aaaaah
<aseigo> ok.
<aseigo> haha
<aseigo> i see.
<aseigo> so. because you are happy, everyone else is.
<libv> we do not need some messiah, we have code to do
<aseigo> messiah?
<aseigo> and yeah, i have code "to do" to
<aseigo> regardless .. let me be even more blunt because evidently it's all getting lost in translation for you:
<libv> aseigo: yes, you see to be talking as if we need rescueing and you will be splitting the waters for us or something.
<aseigo> the current status quo, while i accept it may be good enough for some already involved, is not enough for what some of us (plural) are trying to do
<aseigo> so we're going to open doors for ourselves
<aseigo> and we will walk through them
<aseigo> and whoever joins us is welcome
<aseigo> i'm not trying to open doors for YOU as your fucking messiah or whatever
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<aseigo> now, we've run into issues, repeatedly. not realy due to linux-sunxi, btw.
<aseigo> and no matter how much you tell me we haven't, well .. we have. <-- that's a period.
<aseigo> and instead of simply giving up and saying "bah, this is not going to work", we're putting effort in
<aseigo> anything more than that is you reading stuff into it
<libv> aseigo: something else just occured to me.
<aseigo> and to state what should be obvious to you: i didn't bring it up here. i didn't even bring it up to linux-sunxi.org
<aseigo> you and ssvb mentioned it here in this channel, and i actually emailed within the context of eoma68 stuff on the arm-netbook list
<libv> aseigo: you talk about elinux, rhombus and linux-sunxi...
<aseigo> which are disconnected entities
<libv> aseigo: what about the cubie, olimex, wandboard, pengpod, ...
<aseigo> pengpod, really?
<libv> aseigo: there are tons of little communities out and about around the allwinner SoC.
<aseigo> yep, there are
<libv> and there really is no chance in trying to unify them
<aseigo> did i say they weren't welcome? have any of them addressed the sorts of issues i noted in my email?
<aseigo> i'm not trying to unify them
<aseigo> i'd *like* to try to improve how things like issues and earned knowledge around linux-sunxi and random hardware projects can be better organized for future seekers
<aseigo> i'd *like* to try and get eoma68 people coordinated instead of creating 18 different random PCBs that actually only do 4 different things
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<aseigo> i'd *like* to try and create a space where people working on bits of hardware who have an interest in another piece of the puzzle (say, some specific driver in the linux-sunxi kernel) can find out where on the roadmap it is, and if it isn't steer them towards the "patches welcome" sign
<aseigo> my motivation is: it's missing for us; we've managed without it, but i can not bring more people into this area with success when it is this chaotic
<libv> aseigo: that's called linux-sunxi.org, it's not perfect, but it is there.
<aseigo> ok. when does linux-sunxi.org meet to discuss roadmap?
<aseigo> yeah, i've been aware of that roadmap page for a long time
<libv> here. in as far as plans are being made, people just seem to pick up bits and pieces left and right.
<aseigo> right. so the answer is "we don't meet to discuss roadmap"
<libv> plans do not work outside of a paid for environment, at least, if one thinks they they work inside such environments...
<aseigo> bullshit.
<aseigo> a hell of a lot of projects create plans (usually as living documents) and coordinate with each other
<aseigo> and it helps a lot
<aseigo> what it often requires is one or two people who are willing to do the drudge work of coordination
<libv> aseigo: and this is the role you see for yourself?
<aseigo> coordination is not leadership, it is not being a "messiah" or a "dictator"
<aseigo> i realy hope not, because i'm really busy
<aseigo> if it was a role i was to play, what would it matter? would you prefer someone else?
<aseigo> apparently nobody is doing it currently
<aseigo> so ...?
<aseigo> i mean, in my perfect world, a bunch of people would show up to a meeting at an agreed upon time and we'd all figure out what our general needs and expectations are collectively, and then a couple people would take on some manageable tasks to smooth the path forward
<aseigo> and those "couple people" wouldn't be me ;)
<aseigo> that's a perfect world, though, so i'm happy to hit somewhere halfway between here and there
<libv> again, i do not see why you have this desire to come rescue the sunxi community
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<aseigo> dude, for the Nth time, i'm not coming to the resuce of the sunxi community
<aseigo> i'm coming to the rescue of myself. whoever else wants to show up, bully.
<aseigo> and i didn't address my concerns to the sunxi community in the first place.
<aseigo> now, what i don't see is why you'd be so negative about someone showing up to put efforts into making things better.
<aseigo> let me ask it a different way:
<aseigo> what concerns would you have about some people meeting on irc to discuss needs/expectations they have and looking for ways to improve the documentation and coordination interfaces they have?
<libv> aseigo: beyond what i have stated, something just rubs me the wrong way about this, something feels out of place. perhaps it will be clearer in future what is bothering me
<libv> over my past decade in a horrible community, i have learned to trust those hunches.
<aseigo> libv: fair enough. when you figure it out, i'd be interested in hearing it.
<aseigo> my expectations and approaches, btw, are from having spent the last decade in some pretty awesome communities and learning from them
<aseigo> awesome != perfect, it just basically means "productive, supportive so people can get shit done"
<aseigo> perhaps our different trajectories produce expectations that are colliding here
<aseigo> i expect you judge based on what we do, i'd just like the opportunity to do something before being judged ;)
<aseigo> ok, off for the night here.. if you have any other thoughts / questions that occur to you, feel free to drop an email
<libv> bfree: why would i have no issues with packages for 3.13?
<libv> bfree: as long as it is clear for people that only some things will work and that they will not be productive with this code...
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<wingrime> oliv3r: whats with sata mainline?
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<mnemoc> moin
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<plaes> o/
<mnemoc> hi plaes
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<mnemoc> oliv3r: that might be much simpler than a latex based plugin for documenting the registers
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<[7]> does someone know how android's suspend mode works?
<[7]> i.e. how deeply does it sleep, how does the wakeup procedure look like, etc.?
<[7]> how do I debug a situation where it doesn't come back up from standby?
<wingrime> [7]: 1) simple suspend
<wingrime> 2) uart , jtag
<[7]> uart is just silent, no sign of life after wakeup
<wingrime> we talking about sunxi?
<[7]> yes, olinuxino a20 running sunxi-3.4
<[7]> it works with allwinner's 3.3
<wingrime> so, you just not wakeuped
<wingrime> err
<wingrime> a20 PM now now works
<wingrime> not even builds
<wingrime> so how do you suspended?
<wingrime> with 3.4?
<[7]> I don't know, android is doing it while idle, and it doesn't come back up afterwards
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<wingrime> no, idea about how it implemented in sunxi'android
<wingrime> but normaly andoroid use simple PM
<wingrime> currenly PM works only on a10 (I fixed it)
<wingrime> speaking in HW words
<wingrime> PM implemented with "WFI" asm instruction
<wingrime> witch means "wait for IRQ"
<[7]> ok, so not a real suspend at all
<[7]> just CPU idling
<[7]> android seems to be trying to do a LOT more here...
<wingrime> so if there normal PM, you just need leave some IRQ enabled for exit from PM
<[7]> if USB is plugged, it will enter into a loop with this dmesg output: http://pastie.org/8537234
<wingrime> [7]: strange
<[7]> if USB isn't plugged, it will do this: http://pastie.org/8537236
<wingrime> this is like nomal pm works
<[7]> and after that, I just can't manage to wake it up again
<wingrime> but again, are you using OUR 3.4 Kernel?
<[7]> latest sunxi-3.4 with minor fixes
<wingrime> minor?
<wingrime> oliv3r: ?
<[7]> those should be unrelated, stuff like vsync reporting in the disp driver, ...
<wingrime> no,no
<wingrime> thats realy imposible
<wingrime> last time I tryed enable PM in kerenl config, it was still broken
<wingrime> can you test you .config
<[7]> so these logs seem to indicate that it's doing suspend to RAM in PC terms...
<[7]> which particular config options are you referring to?
<wingrime> [7]: thats normal PM
<wingrime> [7]: PM
<wingrime> oh
<wingrime> you can exit from PM with any uart type, just add no_console_suspend to cmdline
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<wingrime> CONFIG_PM=y
<wingrime> oliv3r: ping
<wingrime> mnemoc: ping
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<mnemoc> wingrime:
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<bfree> libv: I just said I didn't think you would be interested in 3.13ish (not that there would be "issues"), just because the ubuntu repo only has graphics stuff in there which would be useless with 3.13
<libv> bfree: the stuff in there is the bits i cared about
<libv> bfree: those bits that i would actively build and maintain
<libv> bfree: that doesn't mean that other packages shouldn't go in
<libv> bfree: just that i cannot be bothered to do _all_ the legwork
<bfree> libv: sure, I'm not arguing/hassling/agitating, just I was asked to point you at kernels and I said the next one was unlikely to interest you (scratch your itches)
<[7]> wingrime: no reaction to uart traffic during suspend, even with no_console_suspend
<libv> bfree: i really do want to see us have broader repos
<libv> bfree: also, how are you for building things for ubuntu?
<wingrime> mnemoc: last time I tryed build PM, it crashed bild
<bfree> libv: btw would be interesting to know if my source packages are usable on the latest ubuntu ... well sunxi-keyring not so much, but sunxi-tools and u-boot might be usable as is.
<wingrime> *build
<libv> bfree: sunxi-keyring?
<libv> bfree: can we now sign packages?
* libv semi-deliberately overlooked that bit
<bfree> libv: I've a stack enough of work just to do things on debian which is my itch to scratch, so looking at ubuntu myself isn't too likely soon
<libv> bfree: well, i will be installing a few debian versions myself, and do the work for the three packages i have up there
<bfree> libv: I can sign my "repo" and that package puts my key into systems it's installed on. really think of it as a skeleton, even deciding what key(s) should go in there is a task :-/
<bfree> libv: and yes, I just have a flat repo up there, still kinda deliberately though the packages there now are probably close to good enough to think about making it a bit more user friendly by moving to a proper structure (e.g. reprepro)
<libv> bfree: we will need to figure out how to deal with these things a lot more distributedly.
<bfree> libv: libump afair built from it's ubuntu source on debian unstable (probably fine), fbturbo was ok once mesa got sorted out (and if you gave it the ubuntu xserver-dev package recompiled for sid). I think one of the mesa's could compile, but when I tried to just patch debian's (as it looked sane enough) things broke and I stopped :-/
<libv> reprepro is easy, i am not sure it scales well
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<libv> would be nice if the pair of us (and perhaps others) could use the same reprepro installation, and use the same key to sign packages
<libv> from our own user accounts
<bfree> reprepro has quite a lot of hooks (pulls, updates and incoming) and can be setup to check package signatures (i.e. allow your sig on mesa for example) as well as repo signing key(s)
<bfree> so I think just putting (for arguments sake) the keys for you, me and mnemoc into the keyring package could then let us update/sign the repo as well as let other keys supply packages (i.e. in incoming)
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<libv> ok, let me throw my current reprepro workflow into the wiki, and then you can propose something much more generic from that.
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<[7]> wingrime: so, looking at the standby code, it seems like the 3.3V and 5V power rails on the board stay enabled during standby, but most peripherals are shut down, DRAM is put into self-refresh, and all IRQs that shouldn't cause wakeup are masked, everything is cloced down to 32kHz, and then WFI is executed?
<[7]> so the CPU isn't fully shut down, and wakeup is triggered by the SoC itself, not by the AXP or something?
<[7]> up to which point in that sequence should printk end up on the uart?
<libv> bfree: please write up, in detail how you want to solve things
<libv> bfree: i like reprepro, it is simple, and if it also can be powerful enough to do what we need, and you also like it, then i think we just decided what tool we will use :)
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<bfree> libv: I did point you at reprepro ;) I think we should be able to use it
<libv> bfree: ever so long ago though, i forget such things :)
<libv> bfree: about your kernels, are they just defconfigs?
<bfree> no, not at all, they are kitchen sink kernels
<libv> good :)
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<nieuwbie> hello
<nieuwbie> my polaroid tablet stuck in bootloop
<n01> watchdog?
<nieuwbie> my linux doesnt see it anymore and I wiped cache partition
<nieuwbie> and did set it to factory settings
<nieuwbie> nothing helped
<nieuwbie> n01: watchdog? what about it?
<n01> bootloop. maybe something is not kicking the watchdog
<bfree> libv: more accurately, modular kitchen's ;) but ... my last 3.4 (first with sun7i) has sun4i a bit broken (conflicting mmc modules) and I also "oopsed" and over modularised a little (e.g. unix is a module). not sure when/if I'll get back to trying to fix it up again as a 3.13 with mmc+sata tempts me more (and seperate kernels per platform just doubles/trebles the already nasty compile time)
<nieuwbie> n01: any idea?
<n01> nieuwbie: we need more info. A10/20/..? kernel ver? rootfs?
<nieuwbie> n01: I think its sun4i
<nieuwbie> n01: I cant give you any more information than that cause my tablet failing to boot.
<n01> you need uart access at least
<libv> bfree: if you document the .config and the process, i can easily reproduce it on odroid-x2
<nieuwbie> n01: thats the thing I dont have any electronics background
<libv> which is a bit faster at compiling things, even though it only has usb2 storage
<n01> nieuwbie: your device is not booting. without uart I don't know how you can solve the issue
<nieuwbie> n01: ok can you give me some sources to read about it?
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<[7]> erm...
<[7]> [ 54.477534] power_supply battery: prop VOLTAGE_MAX_DESIGN=4200000
<[7]> [ 54.487763] power_supply battery: prop VOLTAGE_MIN_DESIGN=3300
<[7]> just a bug in the debug print statement, or does it really think that!?
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<Turl> morning
<wingrime> Turl: 20:22 here )
<wingrime> [7]: wake can be triggered by any unmasked IRQ have device
<[7]> wingrime: printk stops working when it switches over to the SRAM stack... hm
<wingrime> LRADC keys,external IRQ, I2C
<[7]> commenting the WFI doesn't make it wake up either => I guess it isn't just a missing wakeup source
<[7]> I'll investigate further..
<Turl> wingrime: :)
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<wens> 22:33 here :)
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<wingrime> [7]: thats means problem in outher things
<wingrime> [7]: seek for mine a10 patches for PM in linux-sunxi git tree
<wingrime> [7]: and try apply it to a20's PM
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<[7]> wingrime: you mean this pull? https://github.com/linux-sunxi/linux-sunxi/pull/122
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<[7]> wow, that stack switching code is a *bit* risky...
* [7] replaces that with something safe
<Sonic1> Anyone in here have a WandBoard Quad with Android running on it?
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<[7]> wingrime: do you know the reasoning behind using 0xf000b400 as the SRAM stack top?
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<[7]> wingrime: I have reasons to believe that the memory that is being used for the internal stack doesn't even exist on a20
<[7]> if I lower the address a bit to 0xf0008000, it gets a bit further at least
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<Turl> [7]: http://linux-sunxi.org/SRAM_Controller may be of help
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<[7]> "For A20 SRAM_A3_A4_MAP set up for emac by default, so you should change it for make it usable" might be the key then
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<[7]> ok, the SRAM stack works now, but something keeps killing it as soon as DRAM is put into self-refresh
<[7]> ok, power button wakeup event works
<[7]> but resuming crashes and reboots at some point
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* [7] just disables suspend for now
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<wingrime> [7]: are you still there
<wingrime> ?
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<wingrime_> [7]: ping
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<nfet_> Hi, Does anyone have a known working SPL file for A31?
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<Turl> nfet_: A31 is not supported by the community uboot
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<[7]> hm... any way how I can prevent android from going into suspend to ram?
<[7]> I just want it to turn off the display (but otherwise keep running) when I press the power button
<[7]> if I just disable suspend in the kernel, android crashes and restarts a whole bunch of services when I press the button
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<KBme> this is the best I can do, does anyone have a clue about what this kernel panic can be http://postimg.org/image/bg5n61qoj/ ?
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<KBme> the problem seems to be around handl_IPI or something of the likes
<KBme> this booting from mmc, with an initramfs
<KBme> booting the latest sunxi sources from github.com/linux-sunxi/linux-sunxi staging/sunxi-3.4
<KBme> with uboot from github.com/linux-sunxi
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<KBme> oh, forgot to add, on cubietruck
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<KBme> also, I guess cpu_idle is there
<KBme> maybe there is a bug with cpu_idle?
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<KBme> so, as long as I don't do too much, the kernel behaves fine (i.e. init=/bin/sh), but as soon as an init script is run, that mounts filesystems and changes root and stuff, the kernel panics
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