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<rqou> hey azonenberg_work can i get recommendations for a UPS?
<rqou> housemates tripped the breaker again
<azonenberg_work> I have been happy with cyberpower
<azonenberg_work> Depending on your use case line interactive or online
<azonenberg_work> i have one of each
<azonenberg_work> the LI served me well for many years before i got a generator which it didn't like (kept running on battery)
<azonenberg_work> its now kept charged but not loaded, as emergency reserve power
<azonenberg_work> and the online is running all my stuff
<azonenberg_work> 1500 VA 2U is the specific model i have
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<rqou> i'm still not clear the downsides of line interactive vs online
<rqou> the current use case is "housemates keep overloading our breaker"
<azonenberg_work> So line-interactive basically is a relay
<azonenberg_work> run from house current or battery
<azonenberg_work> So output voltage fluctuates with the input until it gets bad enough to trip the relay
<azonenberg_work> online is always rectifying and re-synthesizing the waveform
<azonenberg_work> So you get very clean 120v60 no matter what
<azonenberg_work> as long as you have either battery or mains available
<azonenberg_work> and theres no glitches during the switchover
<azonenberg_work> as a result online upses are able to run well on much dirtier input power
<azonenberg_work> like a generator, which will make a line-interactive one go nuts
<rqou> my roommate apparently has a APC BR1500G which doesn't seem to clearly specify which type it is
<rqou> is your UPS a pure sine output?
<azonenberg_work> Both of mine are pure sine on battery
<azonenberg_work> the line-interactive is "whatever comes in" otherwise
<azonenberg_work> the online is always pure sine no matter what
<azonenberg_work> unless mains goes away and the battery dies in which case its flatlined :p
<rqou> why doesn't anyone make a UPS that just outputs ~100VDC on battery?
<azonenberg_work> Because that is typically not something mains gear can run on
<azonenberg_work> fwiw, this is why i am planning to migrate all of my upcoming server gear to 48V DC
<azonenberg_work> i'm going to build an ATX PSU that takes 48V as the input and buck's it down to 12 etc
<azonenberg_work> At this point, the "UPS" is basically a 48V DC PSU, some kind of reverse voltage protection, and a float-charged bank of 4x deep-cycle 12V batteries
<whitequark> azonenberg_work: what?
<azonenberg_work> the PSU i have in mind will run from 36-60V input
<whitequark> all modern SMPSes will happily run on 80VDC+
<azonenberg_work> So i can feed them directly off the unregulated battery voltage
<whitequark> maybe 90VDC+. 100 is definitely enough
<azonenberg_work> whitequark: yes but you cannot assume a given piece of equipment is smps'd
<whitequark> that's true
<azonenberg_work> no manufacturer would take that liability
<azonenberg_work> plug in anything transformer-based and it pretty much is a dead short
<whitequark> well it's ought to have protection anyway
<whitequark> but yes
<azonenberg_work> Anyway, i like the 48V DC option because now i have SELV wiring for distribution
<azonenberg_work> and it means that the "UPS" is now very simple = less likely to fail
<azonenberg_work> literally run directly off the batteries, maybe with a low-voltage cutoff
<azonenberg_work> no idea if/when i'll get around to it
<azonenberg_work> but thats a TODO
<azonenberg_work> in the short term 48V is an easier input stage than mains AC so i'll try and move stuff to that even if i dont end up doing a pure 48V UPS
<whitequark> I'll buy one off you if you mkae it :p
<azonenberg_work> Oh and more efficient
<azonenberg_work> less conversion losses between battery and load = more runtime on battery for same Wh capacity
<azonenberg_work> only a few percent but never hurts
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<azonenberg_work> And well, i'll have some downtime when i'm in HK after working hours so i may spend some of that time working on this
<azonenberg_work> I have a long list of projects and have to decide how to prioritize
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<azonenberg_work> Right now... gp4par, antikernel, splash, my ethernet jtag/uart/i2c/whatever gadget, the new FPGA cluster (which will be 48V based and use a lot of the same power conversion circuits as the 48V ATX supply etc)
<whitequark> pcbhdl?
<whitequark> I've cleared out my backlog a bit and will soon resume on that
<whitequark> we could do some pcbhdl hacking in person, maybe
<azonenberg_work> ah yes i knew i was forgetting something
<azonenberg_work> i'd be down for that
<whitequark> nice
<azonenberg_work> weekend hackathon? lol
<whitequark> yeah
<azonenberg_work> well as of now it looks like the 10-11 and 17-18 of next month i will be in HK with nothing better to do
<azonenberg_work> So lets do it
<azonenberg_work> After working hours i probably wont be able to meet up since you were a bit of a ways from where i'm staying, so i'll have to pick another project to code on during the week
<whitequark> sounds good
<whitequark> that or I could go to where you are, since I don't have to work in an office
<azonenberg_work> ah true
<azonenberg_work> I'll be in SSP i think i mentioned
<whitequark> its mostly for experiments and putting the kc705s somewhere
<whitequark> yeah
<azonenberg_work> We can coordinate details once i'm there
<azonenberg_work> I was thinking my other project could be working up a command line flow for vivado
<azonenberg_work> i've been almost entirely an ISE user so far
<azonenberg_work> but i really need to get familiar with vivado
<whitequark> you could just do what migen does
<azonenberg_work> open a pipe to a backgrounded vivado instance and spam tcl to it?
<whitequark> let me look it up
<azonenberg_work> lain experimented with that and had some success
<azonenberg_work> in any case i generally need to familiarize myself w/ vivado
<whitequark> this is the entire thing
<azonenberg_work> Yeah i'm doing my system in C++ but i expect something similar
<azonenberg_work> its more that i have to understand the vivado tcl interfac :p
<whitequark> you don't actually need to run vivado ide
<azonenberg_work> tcl*
<whitequark> theres a cli executable
<azonenberg_work> yeah i know
<azonenberg_work> it takes a while to spin up though
<azonenberg_work> so rather than doing what migen does
<azonenberg_work> i'm leaning toward keeping it open all the time on the compute node
<azonenberg_work> with a pipe on stdin/out
<azonenberg_work> and feeding tcl to it as jobs come in
<whitequark> wouldn't it take much more time to synthesize even anyway?
<lain> hm
<lain> the startup time is something like 15 seconds on modern hardware
<lain> just for the tcl console to spin up
<lain> but a full run from synth to bitgen can be several minutes, so it might be splitting hairs
<whitequark> ^
<azonenberg_work> I'll experiment
<whitequark> several minutes is optimistic, artiq takes 25 minutes
<azonenberg_work> i basically have done nothing with vivado
<whitequark> on a good day. on a bad day it's 45
<whitequark> and it's not even a very large design
<rqou> offtopic: housemates just came up with the stupidest mobile app idea
<azonenberg_work> among other things i want to familiarize myself with saving intermediate files
<azonenberg_work> i know it has som ecapabilities, less than ise
<rqou> an app that has a big "i want toast" button that when pressed requests all of our UPSs to temporarily disconnect from the house wiring
<azonenberg_work> rqou: loool
<whitequark> lol
<azonenberg_work> so you can run the microwave?
<azonenberg_work> whitequark: but like, if i change a PAR optimization flag
<rqou> the microwave or the toaster oven
<azonenberg_work> i want to be able to have the synthesis and maybe techmap output cached
<azonenberg_work> and save a minute or two on the build
<whitequark> azonenberg_work: ok that makes more sense then
<azonenberg_work> rather than redoing it from source entirely
<azonenberg_work> Basically its just a matter of experimenting
<azonenberg_work> and figuring out what this vivado thing is all about :p
<azonenberg_work> I know ISE inside out and backwards
<rqou> we currently have a minifridge, mini-freezer, toaster oven, toaster (vertical), and microwave all on a power strip
<azonenberg_work> internal directory structures, command line args to various intermediate build operations, etc
<azonenberg_work> vivado is all new
<rqou> you can only run one out of the three of the toaster oven, toaster, or microwave
<lain> I, too, enjoy burning houses down
<azonenberg_work> i have 7 series devices, but have always used ise with them
<azonenberg_work> since they're the subset that ISE supports
<rqou> the indicator led on the power strip starts to flicker if you run the microwave
<azonenberg_work> i hear vivado has better QoR
<azonenberg_work> so i want to switch
<whitequark> rqou: can I take out insurance on your house
<azonenberg_work> plus i cant use smaller artixes etc with ise
<rqou> lol
<azonenberg_work> rqou: hey i have an old beat-up laptop
<azonenberg_work> can i leave it at your house and make a claim for replacement when you burn down?
<rqou> this is why you always hear about university dorms/nearby apartments having fire hazards :P
<azonenberg_work> The biggest electrical fire hazard where i am now is a UPS that has an extension cord coming off it
<azonenberg_work> going through a crawl space to the garage
<azonenberg_work> and feeding the main PDU on my server rack :P
<azonenberg_work> But the cord is heavy gauge and more than rated for the current its pulling
<whitequark> given that i don't see a kettle there: I hope you don't boil your water using two razor blades and mains
<rqou> i have a power strip in a power strip in an extension cord in a cheater plug
<azonenberg_work> and the UPS is only driving ~600W out
<azonenberg_work> Including my desktop
<azonenberg_work> haswell based servers are quite efficient
<rqou> whitequark: there is a tea kettle that is not plugged into the power strip with the other appliances
<rqou> it's probably still on the same circuit though
<azonenberg_work> 628W right now is my desktop, laptop, two cisco switches, 2U file server, 2U border router, three monitors, $WIFE's desktop in sleep mode
<rqou> usually i boil water on the gas stove
<whitequark> that's pretty efficient
<azonenberg_work> whitequark: Yep
<azonenberg_work> The idea was to separate the computers in the garage from other stuff
<azonenberg_work> the garage only has one 20A 120V circuit
<azonenberg_work> And if i have my reflow oven or hot air rework station etc going
<rqou> at my parents' house there is a PHEV charger plugged in an extension cord :P
<azonenberg_work> (and dehumidifier...)
<azonenberg_work> i can;t run the computers too
<azonenberg_work> so i am basically stealing power from one of the house circuits to run the servers
<azonenberg_work> while still keeping the fan noise out of the house
<azonenberg_work> I monitor load and have breakers on everything so i am not concerned about anything overheating
<rqou> at least my parents' PHEV charger is plugged into a heavy duty extension cord and is more or less on its own circuit
<azonenberg_work> the extension cord is huge, dont recall the gauge but it can do lots of amps
<rqou> it shares the circuit with the washer/dryer
<azonenberg_work> its not even the slightest bit warm to the touch
<rqou> so we just manually make sure not to do laundry and charge the car at the same time
<azonenberg_work> lol
<azonenberg_work> whitequark: its funny actually
<azonenberg_work> one of the biggest power offenders are the cisco switches
<azonenberg_work> theyre quite old and not very efficient
<azonenberg_work> i plan to make an xc7a200t based 1U switch that will probably use a lot less juice
<azonenberg_work> these things idle at like 125-150W iirc
<rqou> anyways, i wouldn't be surprised if this apartment still has knob and tube wiring
<azonenberg_work> loooool
<rqou> i did mention that we have illegal fake three prong outlets
<rqou> alright, i'm buying a CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD
<rqou> hopefully that's a decent one
<rqou> amazon's Algorithm(TM) isn't very good at understanding what type of stuff people actually buy a lot of
<rqou> it keeps showing me e.g. 10gbe nics and wifi mini pcie cards
<rqou> apparently they don't realize that you don't really need a ton of these
<rqou> (or you do and you won't be buying them from amazon :P )
<rqou> also, i just ordered a UPS and it's recommending for me different UPSs
<rqou> that's not how it works :P
<rvense> will be weird when they branch out into real estate
<rqou> one thing it does understand is that it keeps recommending me nintendo products :P
<azonenberg_work> rvense: loool
<azonenberg_work> house via amazon prime? :p
<azonenberg_work> rqou: that looks like the consumer edition of mine (rackmount), maybe slightly less battery capacity
<azonenberg_work> But should get th ejob done
<rqou> yeah, i don't have a rack here
<azonenberg_work> Mine is an OL1500RTXL2U
<azonenberg_work> i dont have the othe rmodel handy
<azonenberg_work> interestingly enough this unit is not racked
<azonenberg_work> i have it in tower config because the 2U switch/patch panel rack here doesnt have the mechanical strength to hold up a big UPS
<rqou> i'
<rqou> i'll pass on >$600 :P
<azonenberg_work> Lol
<azonenberg_work> Well i figured i was protecting $$$$ of equipment with it
<azonenberg_work> i wanted something halfway decent
<azonenberg_work> the 4k monitor on my desk alone is nearly $1k
<azonenberg_work> my AC701 fpga devkit is $1K or so
<rqou> right, you actually have crappy power rather than crappy housemates :P
<azonenberg_work> the oscilloscope is quite a bit too
<azonenberg_work> And that too
<azonenberg_work> I'm using it for power conditioning of generator output as well as a UPS
<azonenberg_work> it just happens to allow uninterrupted switchover as well
<rqou> i figured that the power here isn't too bad that anything that will break will be only the PSU at best
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<azonenberg_work> rqou: i bought my first ups after losing two atx supplies to a brownout + surge
<azonenberg_work> did not want a repeat on more expensive gear
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<felix_> rqou: the 4 byte before the SGMT string are btw. very likely the (little endian) length of the following blob; and the next blob is likely 16byte aliged. i'll extend the script when i have some time for that kind of stuff again
<felix_> huh, is the knob and tube wiring still in thing in the usa? o_O
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<jhol> felix_: I'm here to bother you!
<felix_> jhol: i have a rather bad cold since last week or so and haven't had time or motivation to look at the patch
<jhol> :) - that sucks, I'll tell my henchmen not to come break your legs just yet then
<felix_> hehe
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