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<rqou>
hey azonenberg_work can i get recommendations for a UPS?
<rqou>
housemates tripped the breaker again
<azonenberg_work>
I have been happy with cyberpower
<azonenberg_work>
Depending on your use case line interactive or online
<azonenberg_work>
i have one of each
<azonenberg_work>
the LI served me well for many years before i got a generator which it didn't like (kept running on battery)
<azonenberg_work>
its now kept charged but not loaded, as emergency reserve power
<azonenberg_work>
and the online is running all my stuff
<azonenberg_work>
1500 VA 2U is the specific model i have
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<rqou>
i'm still not clear the downsides of line interactive vs online
<rqou>
the current use case is "housemates keep overloading our breaker"
<azonenberg_work>
So line-interactive basically is a relay
<azonenberg_work>
run from house current or battery
<azonenberg_work>
So output voltage fluctuates with the input until it gets bad enough to trip the relay
<azonenberg_work>
online is always rectifying and re-synthesizing the waveform
<azonenberg_work>
So you get very clean 120v60 no matter what
<azonenberg_work>
as long as you have either battery or mains available
<azonenberg_work>
and theres no glitches during the switchover
<azonenberg_work>
as a result online upses are able to run well on much dirtier input power
<azonenberg_work>
like a generator, which will make a line-interactive one go nuts
<rqou>
my roommate apparently has a APC BR1500G which doesn't seem to clearly specify which type it is
<rqou>
is your UPS a pure sine output?
<azonenberg_work>
Both of mine are pure sine on battery
<azonenberg_work>
the line-interactive is "whatever comes in" otherwise
<azonenberg_work>
the online is always pure sine no matter what
<azonenberg_work>
unless mains goes away and the battery dies in which case its flatlined :p
<rqou>
why doesn't anyone make a UPS that just outputs ~100VDC on battery?
<azonenberg_work>
Because that is typically not something mains gear can run on
<azonenberg_work>
fwiw, this is why i am planning to migrate all of my upcoming server gear to 48V DC
<azonenberg_work>
i'm going to build an ATX PSU that takes 48V as the input and buck's it down to 12 etc
<azonenberg_work>
At this point, the "UPS" is basically a 48V DC PSU, some kind of reverse voltage protection, and a float-charged bank of 4x deep-cycle 12V batteries
<whitequark>
azonenberg_work: what?
<azonenberg_work>
the PSU i have in mind will run from 36-60V input
<whitequark>
all modern SMPSes will happily run on 80VDC+
<azonenberg_work>
So i can feed them directly off the unregulated battery voltage
<whitequark>
maybe 90VDC+. 100 is definitely enough
<azonenberg_work>
whitequark: yes but you cannot assume a given piece of equipment is smps'd
<whitequark>
that's true
<azonenberg_work>
no manufacturer would take that liability
<azonenberg_work>
plug in anything transformer-based and it pretty much is a dead short
<whitequark>
well it's ought to have protection anyway
<whitequark>
but yes
<azonenberg_work>
Anyway, i like the 48V DC option because now i have SELV wiring for distribution
<azonenberg_work>
and it means that the "UPS" is now very simple = less likely to fail
<azonenberg_work>
literally run directly off the batteries, maybe with a low-voltage cutoff
<azonenberg_work>
no idea if/when i'll get around to it
<azonenberg_work>
but thats a TODO
<azonenberg_work>
in the short term 48V is an easier input stage than mains AC so i'll try and move stuff to that even if i dont end up doing a pure 48V UPS
<whitequark>
I'll buy one off you if you mkae it :p
<azonenberg_work>
Oh and more efficient
<azonenberg_work>
less conversion losses between battery and load = more runtime on battery for same Wh capacity
<azonenberg_work>
only a few percent but never hurts
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<azonenberg_work>
And well, i'll have some downtime when i'm in HK after working hours so i may spend some of that time working on this
<azonenberg_work>
I have a long list of projects and have to decide how to prioritize
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<azonenberg_work>
Right now... gp4par, antikernel, splash, my ethernet jtag/uart/i2c/whatever gadget, the new FPGA cluster (which will be 48V based and use a lot of the same power conversion circuits as the 48V ATX supply etc)
<whitequark>
pcbhdl?
<whitequark>
I've cleared out my backlog a bit and will soon resume on that
<whitequark>
we could do some pcbhdl hacking in person, maybe
<azonenberg_work>
ah yes i knew i was forgetting something
<azonenberg_work>
i'd be down for that
<whitequark>
nice
<azonenberg_work>
weekend hackathon? lol
<whitequark>
yeah
<azonenberg_work>
well as of now it looks like the 10-11 and 17-18 of next month i will be in HK with nothing better to do
<azonenberg_work>
So lets do it
<azonenberg_work>
After working hours i probably wont be able to meet up since you were a bit of a ways from where i'm staying, so i'll have to pick another project to code on during the week
<whitequark>
sounds good
<whitequark>
that or I could go to where you are, since I don't have to work in an office
<azonenberg_work>
ah true
<azonenberg_work>
I'll be in SSP i think i mentioned
<whitequark>
its mostly for experiments and putting the kc705s somewhere
<whitequark>
yeah
<azonenberg_work>
We can coordinate details once i'm there
<azonenberg_work>
I was thinking my other project could be working up a command line flow for vivado
<azonenberg_work>
i've been almost entirely an ISE user so far
<azonenberg_work>
but i really need to get familiar with vivado
<whitequark>
you could just do what migen does
<azonenberg_work>
open a pipe to a backgrounded vivado instance and spam tcl to it?
<whitequark>
let me look it up
<azonenberg_work>
lain experimented with that and had some success
<azonenberg_work>
Yeah i'm doing my system in C++ but i expect something similar
<azonenberg_work>
its more that i have to understand the vivado tcl interfac :p
<whitequark>
you don't actually need to run vivado ide
<azonenberg_work>
tcl*
<whitequark>
theres a cli executable
<azonenberg_work>
yeah i know
<azonenberg_work>
it takes a while to spin up though
<azonenberg_work>
so rather than doing what migen does
<azonenberg_work>
i'm leaning toward keeping it open all the time on the compute node
<azonenberg_work>
with a pipe on stdin/out
<azonenberg_work>
and feeding tcl to it as jobs come in
<whitequark>
wouldn't it take much more time to synthesize even anyway?
<lain>
hm
<lain>
the startup time is something like 15 seconds on modern hardware
<lain>
just for the tcl console to spin up
<lain>
but a full run from synth to bitgen can be several minutes, so it might be splitting hairs
<whitequark>
^
<azonenberg_work>
I'll experiment
<whitequark>
several minutes is optimistic, artiq takes 25 minutes
<azonenberg_work>
i basically have done nothing with vivado
<whitequark>
on a good day. on a bad day it's 45
<whitequark>
and it's not even a very large design
<rqou>
offtopic: housemates just came up with the stupidest mobile app idea
<azonenberg_work>
among other things i want to familiarize myself with saving intermediate files
<azonenberg_work>
i know it has som ecapabilities, less than ise
<rqou>
an app that has a big "i want toast" button that when pressed requests all of our UPSs to temporarily disconnect from the house wiring
<azonenberg_work>
rqou: loool
<whitequark>
lol
<azonenberg_work>
so you can run the microwave?
<azonenberg_work>
whitequark: but like, if i change a PAR optimization flag
<rqou>
the microwave or the toaster oven
<azonenberg_work>
i want to be able to have the synthesis and maybe techmap output cached
<azonenberg_work>
and save a minute or two on the build
<whitequark>
azonenberg_work: ok that makes more sense then
<azonenberg_work>
rather than redoing it from source entirely
<azonenberg_work>
Basically its just a matter of experimenting
<azonenberg_work>
and figuring out what this vivado thing is all about :p
<azonenberg_work>
I know ISE inside out and backwards
<rqou>
we currently have a minifridge, mini-freezer, toaster oven, toaster (vertical), and microwave all on a power strip
<azonenberg_work>
internal directory structures, command line args to various intermediate build operations, etc
<azonenberg_work>
vivado is all new
<rqou>
you can only run one out of the three of the toaster oven, toaster, or microwave
<lain>
I, too, enjoy burning houses down
<azonenberg_work>
i have 7 series devices, but have always used ise with them
<azonenberg_work>
since they're the subset that ISE supports
<rqou>
the indicator led on the power strip starts to flicker if you run the microwave
<azonenberg_work>
i hear vivado has better QoR
<azonenberg_work>
so i want to switch
<whitequark>
rqou: can I take out insurance on your house
<azonenberg_work>
plus i cant use smaller artixes etc with ise
<rqou>
lol
<azonenberg_work>
rqou: hey i have an old beat-up laptop
<azonenberg_work>
can i leave it at your house and make a claim for replacement when you burn down?
<rqou>
this is why you always hear about university dorms/nearby apartments having fire hazards :P
<azonenberg_work>
The biggest electrical fire hazard where i am now is a UPS that has an extension cord coming off it
<azonenberg_work>
going through a crawl space to the garage
<azonenberg_work>
and feeding the main PDU on my server rack :P
<azonenberg_work>
But the cord is heavy gauge and more than rated for the current its pulling
<whitequark>
given that i don't see a kettle there: I hope you don't boil your water using two razor blades and mains
<rqou>
i have a power strip in a power strip in an extension cord in a cheater plug
<azonenberg_work>
and the UPS is only driving ~600W out
<azonenberg_work>
Including my desktop
<azonenberg_work>
haswell based servers are quite efficient
<rqou>
whitequark: there is a tea kettle that is not plugged into the power strip with the other appliances
<rqou>
it's probably still on the same circuit though
<azonenberg_work>
628W right now is my desktop, laptop, two cisco switches, 2U file server, 2U border router, three monitors, $WIFE's desktop in sleep mode
<rqou>
usually i boil water on the gas stove
<whitequark>
that's pretty efficient
<azonenberg_work>
whitequark: Yep
<azonenberg_work>
The idea was to separate the computers in the garage from other stuff
<azonenberg_work>
the garage only has one 20A 120V circuit
<azonenberg_work>
And if i have my reflow oven or hot air rework station etc going
<rqou>
at my parents' house there is a PHEV charger plugged in an extension cord :P
<azonenberg_work>
(and dehumidifier...)
<azonenberg_work>
i can;t run the computers too
<azonenberg_work>
so i am basically stealing power from one of the house circuits to run the servers
<azonenberg_work>
while still keeping the fan noise out of the house
<azonenberg_work>
I monitor load and have breakers on everything so i am not concerned about anything overheating
<rqou>
at least my parents' PHEV charger is plugged into a heavy duty extension cord and is more or less on its own circuit
<azonenberg_work>
the extension cord is huge, dont recall the gauge but it can do lots of amps
<rqou>
it shares the circuit with the washer/dryer
<azonenberg_work>
its not even the slightest bit warm to the touch
<rqou>
so we just manually make sure not to do laundry and charge the car at the same time
<azonenberg_work>
lol
<azonenberg_work>
whitequark: its funny actually
<azonenberg_work>
one of the biggest power offenders are the cisco switches
<azonenberg_work>
theyre quite old and not very efficient
<azonenberg_work>
i plan to make an xc7a200t based 1U switch that will probably use a lot less juice
<azonenberg_work>
these things idle at like 125-150W iirc
<rqou>
anyways, i wouldn't be surprised if this apartment still has knob and tube wiring
<azonenberg_work>
loooool
<rqou>
i did mention that we have illegal fake three prong outlets
<rqou>
alright, i'm buying a CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD
<rqou>
hopefully that's a decent one
<rqou>
amazon's Algorithm(TM) isn't very good at understanding what type of stuff people actually buy a lot of
<rqou>
it keeps showing me e.g. 10gbe nics and wifi mini pcie cards
<rqou>
apparently they don't realize that you don't really need a ton of these
<rqou>
(or you do and you won't be buying them from amazon :P )
<rqou>
also, i just ordered a UPS and it's recommending for me different UPSs
<rqou>
that's not how it works :P
<rvense>
will be weird when they branch out into real estate
<rqou>
one thing it does understand is that it keeps recommending me nintendo products :P
<azonenberg_work>
rvense: loool
<azonenberg_work>
house via amazon prime? :p
<azonenberg_work>
rqou: that looks like the consumer edition of mine (rackmount), maybe slightly less battery capacity
<azonenberg_work>
But should get th ejob done
<rqou>
yeah, i don't have a rack here
<azonenberg_work>
Mine is an OL1500RTXL2U
<azonenberg_work>
i dont have the othe rmodel handy
<azonenberg_work>
interestingly enough this unit is not racked
<azonenberg_work>
i have it in tower config because the 2U switch/patch panel rack here doesnt have the mechanical strength to hold up a big UPS
<rqou>
i'
<rqou>
i'll pass on >$600 :P
<azonenberg_work>
Lol
<azonenberg_work>
Well i figured i was protecting $$$$ of equipment with it
<azonenberg_work>
i wanted something halfway decent
<azonenberg_work>
the 4k monitor on my desk alone is nearly $1k
<azonenberg_work>
my AC701 fpga devkit is $1K or so
<rqou>
right, you actually have crappy power rather than crappy housemates :P
<azonenberg_work>
the oscilloscope is quite a bit too
<azonenberg_work>
And that too
<azonenberg_work>
I'm using it for power conditioning of generator output as well as a UPS
<azonenberg_work>
it just happens to allow uninterrupted switchover as well
<rqou>
i figured that the power here isn't too bad that anything that will break will be only the PSU at best
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<azonenberg_work>
rqou: i bought my first ups after losing two atx supplies to a brownout + surge
<azonenberg_work>
did not want a repeat on more expensive gear
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<felix_>
rqou: the 4 byte before the SGMT string are btw. very likely the (little endian) length of the following blob; and the next blob is likely 16byte aliged. i'll extend the script when i have some time for that kind of stuff again
<felix_>
huh, is the knob and tube wiring still in thing in the usa? o_O
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<jhol>
felix_: I'm here to bother you!
<felix_>
jhol: i have a rather bad cold since last week or so and haven't had time or motivation to look at the patch
<jhol>
:) - that sucks, I'll tell my henchmen not to come break your legs just yet then
<felix_>
hehe
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