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<Wardrop>
Hey guys, I'm looking for a license like the MIT license, but which also requires the source code be made available with any redistribution, and where the rights of the license cannot be changed.
<Wardrop>
Any suggestions?
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<jrobeson>
Wardrop, and you don't want to use the GPL because?
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<jrobeson>
although the GPL isn't well liked in the ruby community due to such restrictions
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<Wardrop>
jrobeson: Just seems excessively verbose. I just want a modified MIT-style license, which doesn't permit removing rights of the original license, and which requires original and any modified source code to be made available with any redistribution.
<jrobeson>
that is the GPL
<jrobeson>
i doubt anybody has spent lawyer money to replicate what the GPL is
<jrobeson>
err what the GPL already does
<Wardrop>
I basically just want to prevent people from commercialising the software, and I figure forcing them to make their source code available would mostly achieve that. It's nota personal concern, but it's software I developed as an employee, and these are basic the conditions my employer wants to put on the code.
<jrobeson>
you could include the creative commons GPL simplified language deed
<Wardrop>
Maybe GPL is the best option
<jrobeson>
it's also possible you want to use the AGPL if it's server software
<jrobeson>
or networked software rather
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<Wardrop>
It's a server-side Ruby web applications
<Wardrop>
application* no plural
<jrobeson>
then the AGPL would be best
<jrobeson>
one of the GPL loopholes is keeping all your customizations local and thus not counting as distribution
<jrobeson>
of course.. none of this is tested in court ..
<Wardrop>
jrobseon: Yeah I don't mind
<jrobeson>
but that is why people use the AGPL
<jrobeson>
over the GPL
<jrobeson>
Wardrop, you should consider the creativecommons GPL deed and linking to that
<jrobeson>
or maybe they don't do the deeds anymore..
<Wardrop>
I mean personally, if someone wants to sell what is available for free, and people are gullible enough to fall for it, I don't really care. If someone makes significant modifications that people are willing to pay for, then I also don't care whether he keeps his source private or not.
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<jrobeson>
that's lame .. the deeds are gone
<jrobeson>
:(
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* yorickpeterse
just re-aligned his phone to his wallet
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<yorickpeterse>
damn it
<DefV>
most of that isn't really organized neatly
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<ndrst>
maloik: feels wrong for me
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<maloik>
I see what you're getting at, but using an option parser and doing everything in ruby to then execute the same open command is kinda silly as well
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<yorickpeterse>
hihi, abusing TCPSocket to see if a server is up and running
<ndrst>
yorickpeterse: why?
<matti>
yorickpeterse: ;]
<yorickpeterse>
ndrst: so basically I'm doing a rolling reboot in an AWS autoscaling group. I however in those cases don't want to reboot everything at once
<yorickpeterse>
thus I need to somehow verify if a server is back up
<yorickpeterse>
Amazon only changes the server status if you actually shut it down, a reboot is still considered as "running"
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<yorickpeterse>
So what I instead intend to do is to check if SSH is available and bail out after a few seconds (then repeat that until it's back up)
<ndrst>
ah. amazon.
<ndrst>
okay that makes sense then (;
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<yorickpeterse>
> domain jobdeals.us
<yorickpeterse>
> registered in Romania
<yorickpeterse>
looks legit
<yorickpeterse>
ooooh a Gmail address
<yorickpeterse>
Assuming these whois details are even correct
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<yorickpeterse>
wohoo, I haz rolling reboot
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<alatchford>
Hi all, I'm new to ruby but interested in using it. I would like to use it for a commercial project though, is there a way of packaging up ruby without including the source code. (I'm presuming this is possible using gems, I've done similar in python with eggs). Any advice would be appreciated :)
<darix>
there are tools like ruby2exe and friends
<darix>
though ... all your .rb files can be extracted out of those
<maloik>
alatchford: Sirportly does that. I'm not entirely sure how, but you may be able to find some info on their site/blog or what not
<maloik>
they offer a self hosted solution where the source is compiled or something, but you can still run rails console or add your own modules
<alatchford>
cheers guys, I'll start the google hunt :)
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<lupine>
if you're interested in keeping the code secret, ruby is not really for you. neither is python, java, or a host of other managed languages
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<alatchford>
it's a fairly niche application so we've shipped pyc's in eggs in python for a number of years without too many problems, but we're looking at repurposing Redmine for a new product so would be good to at least have some obfuscation
<lupine>
um
<lupine>
redmine is GPLv2-licensed
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<lupine>
it's OK to hold copyright in contempt until you start selling things
<yorickpeterse>
why do you need obfuscation?
<yorickpeterse>
Even with compiled and optimized C you can still reverse engineer it
<yorickpeterse>
You're probably better off setting up a proper licensing model
<lupine>
well, it's a much tougher job than doing the same with obfuscated ruby
<lupine>
time-to-add-one-new-feature is probably an order of magnitude or two higher
<darix>
alatchford: every time you sell it ... people can ask for the source code.
<darix>
alatchford: at least if you want to honor the license
<darix>
and your modifications/addons probably need to be GPL 2 aswell
<alatchford>
hmm, that's not the way I've understood it. I understand the core is GPLv2 and any patches I apply to the core are but surely any plugins I develop are okay correct?
* lupine
learns about chiliproject
<lupine>
alatchford, no
<darix>
lupine: chili is dead
<lupine>
that's a shame
<lupine>
although it had a release in march
<darix>
lupine: yes still on rails 2.3 if i recall correctly
<darix>
while redmine is on 3.x
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<lupine>
not on 4.0? it must be dead
<lupine>
;)
<lupine>
alatchford, licensing is hard. but a plugin to a gpl2 rails app, designed for that rails app, is going to need to be gpl2 itself
<darix>
alatchford: your license need to be at least as permissive as GPL 2
<lupine>
although IANAL, I am pretty confident about that
<alatchford>
hmm then how do things like easy redmine work?
<darix>
lupine: it can also be BSD 2 or MIT
<alatchford>
they just give out their code?
<lupine>
for the rails bit
<lupine>
not the redmine bit
<darix>
lupine: naw. you can have more permissive licenses with GPL2 apps
<darix>
just not things that add more restrictions
<lupine>
oh, sorry, I see what you mean
<lupine>
yes
<darix>
e.g. BSD 4c would not work
<lupine>
alatchford, sure, why wouldn't they?
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<alatchford>
to somewhat prevent the spread of imitators
<lupine>
no, you've lost me
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<darix>
alatchford: that is always the danger of opensource
<alatchford>
so i'm presuming they have a licensing model
<lupine>
any bumpkin can come and look at what your application does and clean-room-implement the same thing
<alatchford>
true
<alatchford>
but it's a load easier if you have the code
<lupine>
the code is a reasonably small part of the service - or should be
<yorickpeterse>
A plugin isn't required to be GPL since it's considered linking against Redmine
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<yorickpeterse>
You're not making modifications of Redmine itself
<alatchford>
that's what I thought yorickpeterse
<alatchford>
that's like saying anything to runs on top of linux can't be commercial
<yorickpeterse>
if you modify an existing plugin however you have to follow said plugin's license
<alatchford>
yes
<lupine>
well, I did say IANAL ;)
* alatchford
goes to google IANAL
<lupine>
heh, careful with that one
<darix>
yorickpeterse: GPL considers "running in the same memory space"
<darix>
which your plugin will do
<yorickpeterse>
I Am Not A Lawyer
<alatchford>
ta
<alatchford>
yeah lupine, thanks for the advice
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<yorickpeterse>
darix: GPLv2 or GPLv3? I'm pretty sure it mentioned "linking against" at some point
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<darix>
yorickpeterse: i have that fun regularly at work :)
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<jrobeson>
well for big gpl projects like drupal or wordpress
<darix>
you cant imagine how much fun it was to when it was clear that gpl 2 and 3 are not compatible
<yorickpeterse>
Ah, the GNU lesser license allows linking
<jrobeson>
they do consider it linking
<yorickpeterse>
"This General Public License does not permit incorporating your program into proprietary programs. If your program is a subroutine library, you may consider it more useful to permit linking proprietary applications with the library. If this is what you want to do, use the GNU Lesser General Public License instead of this License."
<jrobeson>
however.. not for the js/css assets
<darix>
jrobeson: correct
<darix>
there was some "fun" not long ago about that
<lupine>
licensing is hard
<darix>
lupine: amen to that.
<alatchford>
yeah I agree
<jrobeson>
so.. that's how people sell themes for wordpress
<yorickpeterse>
^ shit like that is why I stay away from the GPL
<lupine>
the last thing I did was unlicense
<lupine>
a bunch of stuff for work is GPL, though
<jrobeson>
it just depends on your goals
<darix>
lupine: you cant have unlicenses/non copyrighted stuff
<jrobeson>
do you want freedom for the developer.. or freedom for the user
<darix>
at most you can make it public domain
<lupine>
that's jurisdiction-dependent
<lupine>
as is that
<jrobeson>
that's the difference
<lupine>
public-domain isn't really a thing in .uk
<lupine>
hence the unlicense
<jrobeson>
not sure why one wouldn't just use MIT
<jrobeson>
for that usecase
<yorickpeterse>
public-domain doesn't even exist everywhere
<yorickpeterse>
jrobeson: MIT doesn't cover copyrights I believe
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<darix>
alatchford: to answer your queston ... they offer service. which is their business. not so much redmine itself.
<jrobeson>
huh?
<lupine>
MIT doesn't make it public-domain in jurisdictions where public-domain exists
<jrobeson>
the license only works because of copyright
<yorickpeterse>
jrobeson: errrr i meant patents
<jrobeson>
i mean.. one can't really do public domain .. that's just it
<jrobeson>
in some places
<lupine>
unlicense does
<jrobeson>
well one could use the apache 2 license
<yorickpeterse>
Either way, the Apache license basically adds a mountain pile of extra stuff to deal with patents and all the other stuff that's broken anyway
* yorickpeterse
prefers the MIT because he can actually read it
<yorickpeterse>
also because I don't give a darn about people using my stuff for proprietary projects, I'd actually be honored
<jrobeson>
i have heard of unlicense , but i didn't know if if had actually been gone over by lawyers
<alatchford>
darix thanks :)
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<lupine>
well, if you're a company making money with code and that code helps to bootstrap another company, it's useful to be able to remain at feature parity with them
<lupine>
which is, I think, work's justification for gpl on the projects we have open
<yorickpeterse>
You don't stay on parity by restricting them, you do it by kicking their ass
<darix>
so ideally you want affero lgpl of course ;)
* yorickpeterse
says that while we're basically doing the former pretty soon
<lupine>
feature parity, not general parity
<lupine>
but I care about these things much less than I used to
<alatchford>
just spoke with my boss and apparently this isn't a concern for him because the redmine piece isn't a huge part of the deal so we're going to open source the plugins we write now instead :)
<alatchford>
everybody wins!
<yorickpeterse>
I prefer "Oh you copied our stuff? Well good for you, we improved it. Fuck you too" over "You can't copy our stuff"
<yorickpeterse>
The former is much more fun :)
<yorickpeterse>
either way, back to rebooting servers
<jrobeson>
i must admit was suprised that the MIT way has generally worked just as well
<jrobeson>
i didn't expect that back in 2000
<yorickpeterse>
We have some projects here that apparently "rock" and "use the MIT license"
<alatchford>
yeah we're going through the whole copyright process with one of our core products at the moment, going to get messy over the next few months
* yorickpeterse
hates auto generated READMEs
<lupine>
it's better to get over the messiness earlier, rather than later
<lupine>
look at some of the busybox court cases :D
<jrobeson>
i'm glad i don't have to "go over it later"
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<alatchford>
yeah
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<darix>
alatchford: +1
<alatchford>
cheers for the advice guys
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<lupine>
another victory for richard stallman :p
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<jrobeson>
stallman is a strange dude..
<yorickpeterse>
don't get me started, he makes sense in some regards but he's a total nutter
<jrobeson>
i do think the world is better with him in it than not though
<jrobeson>
even though i don't like him as a person
<jrobeson>
he changed my life
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<jrobeson>
not directly.. but GNU certainly has..
<yorickpeterse>
IT'S GNU/LINUX!!!1111
<yorickpeterse>
ugh
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<jrobeson>
it's not really worth getting worked up about imo
<jrobeson>
i'm sure you (like everybody else) have something just as annoying about yourself
<lupine>
well, he's spent a long time getting worked up about things that nobody else saw as a problem at the time
<jrobeson>
at least not worth it unless you acctually have to interact with him :)
<yorickpeterse>
jrobeson: more than I can count on 100 fingers
<jrobeson>
because that is annoying
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<jrobeson>
we hosted him at a non software conference back in 2006.
<ljarvis>
whuzzah
<jrobeson>
on #ruby
<jrobeson>
<mva> can anybody advice me, how can I fix 'invalid multibyte escape: /^\xFF\xFE/' error to "when /^\xFE\xFF/" condition? [in vpim gem, actually. It seems, it is incompatible with ruby20]
<jrobeson>
<hoelzro> looks like someone set up you the BOM
<yorickpeterse>
you just got BOMified
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<yorickpeterse>
*queue CSI tune*
<jrobeson>
i chuckled.. haven't seen an all your base joke in awhile
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<yorickpeterse>
Hm, I see a lunch table with my name on it
<yorickpeterse>
brb
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<mistym>
onewheelskyward: go makes people look like they have awful grammar.
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<onewheelskyward>
nice
<onewheelskyward>
mistym How so?
<mistym>
"Can go connect to postgres yet" looks like "go" is a verb in a weird position
<havenwood>
onewheelskyward: PG in Go brought to you by creator of Sinatra, heh.
<onewheelskyward>
lol, nice
<onewheelskyward>
I like me some sinatra. Speaking of grammar.
<ndrst>
nom grammar
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<pellis>
i'm looking for libraries that makes a well structured use of Thor as CLI tool, with good test coverage so i can learn from.. anyone has a recommendation?
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<maloik>
Anyone want to pair with me for a little while? trying to solve a problem for storing app-wide settings, and in specific the opening hours in this case
<maloik>
have a feeling im overthinking this
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<yorickpeterse>
go nuts, there's an entire channel here
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<erikh>
#go-nuts
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<kith>
i wish there was as much docs for ruby as is for perl
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<erikh>
ruby 2.0's got nice docs
<erikh>
but yeah, perl's got a much better documentation culture
<yorickpeterse>
docs are a code smell
<yorickpeterse>
so is whitespace
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<a1ph4g33k>
yorickpeterse, define ... code smell ( good or bad ? )
<yorickpeterse>
it's terrible
<yorickpeterse>
docs are for newbies
<a1ph4g33k>
You'd rather not have documents or whitespace ?
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<a1ph4g33k>
docs are for anybody that isn't familiar with your libraries ... or are only a user and not going to be digging into your source.
<yorickpeterse>
code explains itself when you look at it
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<mistym>
Code should be like latin, all clumped together without whitespace and let the parser decide what's syntactically important
<yorickpeterse>
mistym: yeah exactly, writing docs is manual work you don't get paid for anyway
<yorickpeterse>
the language should solve that for you
<yorickpeterse>
you can solve that by using a good IDE
<yorickpeterse>
e.g. Lighttable or Emacs
<a1ph4g33k>
... so do you go through and take all of your source and convert '\n' to ';' ?
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<yorickpeterse>
No my IDE does that for me
<a1ph4g33k>
glad that works for you.
<yorickpeterse>
Actually it doesn't work just for me but also for my startup
<yorickpeterse>
Therefor I'm pretty sure it works for everybody
<Darkchaos>
If I want to get a form having no name in mechanize. How to? page.form('nil') or page.form(nil) does not work
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<yorickpeterse>
a1ph4g33k: it's also worth mentioning that I'm messing with ya
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<erikh>
yorick's kind of an asshat.
<yorickpeterse>
kind of
<yorickpeterse>
I wanted to make a joke about my "startup" providing Hadoop as a service but meh
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<a1ph4g33k>
yorickpeterse, glad to hear it ... wasn't really coming up with a good way to respond ... I care a lot about what my source includes & the documentation provided.
<a1ph4g33k>
but ... to each his/her own.
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<yorickpeterse>
I have no idea how to pronounce that name
<yorickpeterse>
oh
<yorickpeterse>
heh
<matti>
I was too lazy to do anything with it.
<yorickpeterse>
github.com/matti then who
<yorickpeterse>
* who's that
<a1ph4g33k>
feedback appreciated ;)
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<yorickpeterse>
a1ph4g33k: hahaha you're terrible
<yorickpeterse>
"2 minutes ago"
<a1ph4g33k>
?
<matti>
yorickpeterse: No idea who's that.
<matti>
yorickpeterse: I mean, github.com/matti
<yorickpeterse>
a1ph4g33k: quickly comitting it :P
<yorickpeterse>
matti: heh
<a1ph4g33k>
I had them on GitHub but in a private repo ... and saw a few files that shouldn't have been out there ... like my xchat config .. since it had my NickServ identify stuff & such in it.
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: using `any - ascii` so far lexes Korean and some other gibberish just fine
<yorickpeterse>
yeah
<yorickpeterse>
0x00..0x7f
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<whitequark>
well yes, that's why I wrote that -_-
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<Darkchaos>
why is if (/<font size="4" color="gold" id="c_coins">\d*<\/font>/.match(text) == nil) false, but return /<font size="4" color="gold" id="c_coins">\d*<\/font>/.match(text)[1] == nil
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: while we're at it, do you know of an easy way to make Ragel barf on unknown input (= input it has no rules for)? The manual is pretty abstract about error handling in general
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<yorickpeterse>
where easy is != 100 lines of code basically
<Darkchaos>
nevermind, stupid transmission error from rubular to that
<Darkchaos>
missing () :(
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<Darkchaos>
>> test
<eval-in>
Darkchaos => wrong number of arguments (0 for 2..3) (ArgumentError) ... (https://eval.in/49387)
<andrewvos>
There's always some argument that would look silly even in high school
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<onewheelskyward>
Has that every stopped anyone from doing anything?
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<andrewvos>
I, uh, what?
<andrewvos>
I'm not sure what your question is
<onewheelskyward>
That an argument would look silly even in high school?
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<onewheelskyward>
The devolution of arguments into a hormone-induced rage seems to be the best practice.
<andrewvos>
Well I mean the type of shit they generally complain about is so pathetic that even in high school I would probably want to not associate myself with those sort of people.
<onewheelskyward>
Oh yeah, agreed
<andrewvos>
Yes exactly
<andrewvos>
And tonight I realised, after looking at some tweets, that it's mostly the american people I follow
<onewheelskyward>
Drop 'em
<onewheelskyward>
That's what I do.
<andrewvos>
I will, but first I need to work out what area in particular they're from
<onewheelskyward>
Plot that.
<andrewvos>
haha
<onewheelskyward>
I'm curious if it's centered in major cities.
<andrewvos>
Yeah me too
<andrewvos>
I would like to just say "california douchebags" but some people from there are pretty damn cool
<andrewvos>
(for example)
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<onewheelskyward>
ha
<onewheelskyward>
I lived there for a while. It takes all kinds.
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<tubbo>
if you're already a douchebag, most of california is unfortunately an enabler of that behavior
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<ggherdov>
hello. What's the difference between this channel and #ruby?
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<onewheelskyward>
About 5 characters.
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<mistym>
ggherdov: This is the official channel.
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<drbrain>
ggherdov: ↑
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<ggherdov>
ok
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<Darkchaos>
Anyone here having issues with using the default "twitter" gem?
<Darkchaos>
I am getting net/http.rb:762:in `initialize': execution expired (Twitter::Error::ClientError) for Twitter.follow() however Twitter.update() works well!
<nofxx>
hehe on our Address class:
<nofxx>
field :number, type: String # least surprise fail
<Darkchaos>
lol, now it works
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<Darkchaos>
another one. I have result = mainframe.search("div.follow"), May I use result.join(mainframe.search("div.follow2")) ? Or how would that syntax be
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<darix>
Darkchaos: if you want to consume twitter
<darix>
Darkchaos: why not just use the api?
<darix>
o.O
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<corecode>
suggestions how to implement a DSL with ruby?
<Darkchaos>
yeah, parsing json, that gem does that for me
<darix>
corecode: just use ruby itself?
<Darkchaos>
however It messes up mechanize somehow
<darix>
what are you trying to do there exactly?
<corecode>
darix: define usb descriptors
<darix>
the question was for Darkchaos but well
<darix>
what are usb descriptors?
<corecode>
some data structure
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<corecode>
that's besides the point
<Darkchaos>
Well I am simply trying to like people on twitter, I get using mechanize. However as soon as I am using Twitter.follow() I Get connection resets on mechanize
<darix>
corecode: and what will you be doing with those descriptors?
<corecode>
generate C
<darix>
corecode: FFI then maybe?
<corecode>
wat?
<corecode>
no, generate C code
<darix>
isnt that what ffi does in the end?:p
<darix>
anyway
<corecode>
i don't think you understand what i'm saying
<darix>
corecode: very likely. it is late here^^
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<corecode>
same
<corecode>
in any case, i have some sort of hierarchical language that i want to implement
<drbrain>
corecode: your DSL will define USB device descriptors that are converted into C code?