<andrewvos>
Yeah like what is the "-S" supposed to mean
<andrewvos>
inStall?
<yorickpeterse>
apt-get install => pacman -S NAME
<yorickpeterse>
sync
<andrewvos>
ahhh right
<yorickpeterse>
honestly I think somebody was doing crack cocaine when they designed the UI of pacman
<andrewvos>
yeah
<andrewvos>
Anyway, ubuntu seems to support the most shit
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<yorickpeterse>
honestly i'd rather not bend over for Canonical
<erikh>
I have no idea why people still use arch
<erikh>
or at least, haven't forked it into a more stable solution
<whitequark>
just use debian folks
<erikh>
the package manager is great
<erikh>
but the dist itself is ass.
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* yorickpeterse
shudders at the idea of having to deal with Debian for development
<yorickpeterse>
Debian does some fucked up shit with some packages
<erikh>
I just ship binaries these days
<erikh>
<3 go
<ndrst>
moin
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: such as?
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<yorickpeterse>
less $(which psql)
<yorickpeterse>
run that
<yorickpeterse>
(if you have Pg)
<whitequark>
ok it's a script
<whitequark>
so what
<yorickpeterse>
it's a fucking perl wrapper around a perfectly working psql binary that serves no purpose
<whitequark>
looks like it has a purpose, to me
* erikh
sighs
<erikh>
packaging is pretty complicated when you have to make everyone happy
<erikh>
and
<erikh>
you should be running the postgres distributed packages if you want srs bsns postgres
<erikh>
the ones the postgres team makes themselves
<erikh>
they do fun things like dance around oomkiller and stuff
<yorickpeterse>
wat
<yorickpeterse>
either way, I like Arch for dev because it's pretty easy to get new stuff installed
<yorickpeterse>
But honestly lately especially the Linux kernel releases have been exceptionally shit, though that's not per se Arch's fault
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<yorickpeterse>
3.10 has been nothing but a giant pile of Scandinavian poo
<whitequark>
yeah, they screwed up power management after 3.6.8
<whitequark>
bisecting that was in my backlog for hell of a lot of time
<yorickpeterse>
Actually that's not the biggest issue
<yorickpeterse>
My power usage is the same as far as I can tell
<yorickpeterse>
It's the fucking wifi that's going to shit with every release
<yorickpeterse>
Especially 11n support is going downhill, and there's no info as to why or how to fix it
<yorickpeterse>
It's now at a point where multiple times an hour it just completely shits up for a few minutes and you have to either reconnect, wait or reload the driver to fix it
<yorickpeterse>
(where "shits up" means it doesn't do shit)
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<erikh>
10 is still pretty experimental, isn't it?
<yorickpeterse>
I think so, but they did mark it as LTS I think
<yorickpeterse>
though that might've been 3.11
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<yorickpeterse>
(lol at an LTS that's unstable)
<yorickpeterse>
of all these things the main issue is that there's no single point where you can easily find info on this
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: broadcom? iwlagn?
<yorickpeterse>
b43 has been as shit as before, didn't change
<yorickpeterse>
iwlagn doesn't exist anymore
<whitequark>
wat
<yorickpeterse>
It was merged with iwlwifi between 3.2 and 3.6
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<yorickpeterse>
it's now just an alias I believe
<whitequark>
oh, who cares
<whitequark>
same shit
<whitequark>
well, I've had exactly those issues with iwlagn
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<yorickpeterse>
And now recently my Thinkpad just randomly freezes
<yorickpeterse>
Though I haven't tried to see if I can still SSH into it at that point
<yorickpeterse>
hmmmm, did you get log entries about fifo queues and stuff?
<whitequark>
yes
<yorickpeterse>
ooooh
<yorickpeterse>
ta, I'll give that a try
<whitequark>
it has a shitty crypto engine in its firmware, turns out
<whitequark>
which is, to say, is completely unexpected </sarcasm>
<yorickpeterse>
heh
tonni is now known as ta
<whitequark>
well, since recent cpus have hw aes anyway, that won't even cost you much cpu or power
<whitequark>
so it's ok
<workmad3>
wat? wifi cards have crappy crypto firmware????
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<ljarvis>
nowai
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<whitequark>
also lol @ this parm: power_save:enable WiFi power management (default: disable) (bool)
<whitequark>
default: disable
<whitequark>
HELL YES
<whitequark>
if I had a penny each time someone screwed up power management in PCs
<whitequark>
I'd be Bill fucking Gates
<ljarvis>
a penny?
<ljarvis>
probably not quite bill gates
<ljarvis>
maybe mc hammer
<erikh>
hah
<whitequark>
ljarvis: you have no idea how bad it is
<ljarvis>
you're right
<erikh>
ljarvis: <3
<ljarvis>
erikh: <3
<ljarvis>
zomg arrrcamp is soon
<workmad3>
sometimes I feel I should get a handle on the hw and os stuff a bit more...
<workmad3>
then I see people like whitequark and realise ignorance really is bliss :)
<whitequark>
workmad3: you'll know not only how horrible software is, but also how horrible the hardware it runs on is
<whitequark>
so you'll hate two times more stuff
<whitequark>
recommend it very much <3
<ljarvis>
whitequark always brings the fun to the party
<workmad3>
hehe
<workmad3>
maybe one day, when I encounter the mythical creature called 'free time'
<whitequark>
I suggest you to peek into, say, a cellphone on some day
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<workmad3>
oh bleh, no
<whitequark>
you'll never, ever, touch them with a five-meter stick after that
<workmad3>
I know enough about mobile-phone hardware, thanks :(
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<whitequark>
it's funny how the SoCs are designed
<workmad3>
I got peaks behind the scenes @ sony ericsson and motorola phone and OS development at my last job... that was scary enough
<whitequark>
1. license two dozens of various IP cores from various third-world country suppliers
<whitequark>
2. assemble them together in hopes they would work at least half of the time
<whitequark>
3. ship it
<whitequark>
4. ...
<whitequark>
5. profit
<whitequark>
6. give the software vendor a 240-page pdf with a list of required software workarounds
<whitequark>
under NDA
<ljarvis>
7. /exit
<erikh>
heh
<whitequark>
ljarvis: hm?
<erikh>
ragequit
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<ljarvis>
^
<workmad3>
whitequark: I got to deal with some of that crap with nokia & sony ericsson on symbian :(
<whitequark>
nonono, the vendor is entirely happy with that
<whitequark>
workmad3: a guy I know has disassembled the modem driver on samsung gt-i9100
<whitequark>
to quote him, "it doesn't have race conditions, it's one big fucking race condition"
<workmad3>
sounds about right
<whitequark>
no surprise it randomly missed calls :p
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: didn't really notice a diff with power management on vs off
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: nono, you don't understand
<whitequark>
if you turn it on, the card stops working properly even more often
<whitequark>
that's how power management always works
<whitequark>
in theory you could save 10mW or something, but your hw is not precise enough to measure it anyway
<workmad3>
'what? you mean we need to design hardware that can be turned on and off separately to the machines basic boot?'
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<whitequark>
workmad3: usually, the hw actually has extensive pm capabilities. something like two dozen power domains with intricate requirements on their interaction
<whitequark>
so extensive no one has any idea how they should actually be managed
<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: the card freezing... that's your power management
<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: when it's frozen, it's not sending radio pulses :)
<workmad3>
(hopefully... it could be communicating with the CIA during those 'freezes')
<whitequark>
... including the hardware vendor, sometimes
<whitequark>
(I wish I was joking)
<whitequark>
also I know how to instantly cause workmad3's rage, look:
<whitequark>
workmad3: errata
<workmad3>
whitequark: nah, I don't tend to rage too much about crap products
<whitequark>
:/
<workmad3>
whitequark: I prefer to rage about the idiots that are in charge of the processes that produce said crap
<whitequark>
heh
<workmad3>
whitequark: it's also monday morning, and I'm off on holiday weds onwards... so I'm reasonably rage-free atm :)
<ljarvis>
rage free you say? yorickpeterse could fix that!
<workmad3>
ljarvis: reasonably rage-free... not totally
<workmad3>
ljarvis: I work in software... I'm not sure there is such a thing as rage-free
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<ljarvis>
workmad3: maybe quit #ror to bring the level down
<ljarvis>
workmad3: heh, aye
<workmad3>
ljarvis: hmm... I think that was almost a compliment there ;)
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<gnufied>
I quit #ror long back. that didn't help.
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<ljarvis>
workmad3: I like to be subtle
* workmad3
avoids pointing out that #ror is invite-only, and bounces you to #rubyonrails if you're not allowed in there
<whitequark>
what #ror actually is?
<ljarvis>
for the cool cats
<workmad3>
I got told once it's for rail-core people, or somesuch
<workmad3>
dunno how accurate that is
* workmad3
hasn't been allowed to peak behind the curtain :(
* ljarvis
asks jon
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<gnufied>
so ror core team doesn't use irc, they use campfire iirc
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<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: oh yeah, I did notice that
<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: shut it m8, I'll cut ya
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<ljarvis>
yorickpeterse: ill fuckin shag ya mum ya prick
<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: cunt
<ljarvis>
yorickpeterse: ya fuckin munter
<yorickpeterse>
wat
<ljarvis>
srsly
<yorickpeterse>
hold on, I'll get my Brit dictionary
<ljarvis>
Britionary
<erikh>
is that like a punter?
<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: m8 I'll kick ya beef curtains
<ljarvis>
no
<ljarvis>
yorickpeterse: D:
<yorickpeterse>
also you have a croydon facelift
<ljarvis>
erikh: punter would be like a customer, munter is like a beastly unattractive woman
<yorickpeterse>
heh, Ruby thread on HN, people bitching
<yorickpeterse>
"WHY NOT USE JVM? JVM > ALL!" well, because fucking memory usage triples?
* yorickpeterse
grumbles
<lupine>
don't worry dude, memory is cheap
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* lupine
ducks
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<yorickpeterse>
I hate that statement so much
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<yorickpeterse>
"This code leaks memory" "dude just buy more memory, it's cheap"
<yorickpeterse>
<insert typical me-rant here>
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<lupine>
it's a perfectly fine response, within limits
<lupine>
on the other side, we had a problem with ruby-qt segfaulting due to ruby's gc freeing memory it depended on. We, um, disabled the garbage collector
<lupine>
you know, rather than fixing our code to hold references to the objects
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<yorickpeterse>
it's an argument I mostly hate because people abuse it as an excuse for writing disgusting code (memory usage wise)
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<yorickpeterse>
In fact, at Euruko I even met somebody who said something like "Why use a GC in the first place, why not disable it?"
<yorickpeterse>
Don't remember the specific details but I just walked away
<lupine>
heh
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<yorickpeterse>
I basically just wrote YAML as a service
<yorickpeterse>
using Redis
<yorickpeterse>
lel
<symm->
shame, shame
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<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: I use the 'memory is cheap' argument at times :( but not for resource leaks... more to point out that throwing an extra few gb into a box is going to be cheaper than probably even a day of programmer time trying to space-optimise a program :)
<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: assuming that it's not been written stupidly in the first place, anyway :)
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<yorickpeterse>
yeah it is sometimes justified
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<ndrst>
is there a tool to run tests against running application?
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<ndrst>
I have a vm where I deploy a set of apps and tools and I want to check if the app is running, a few tags are correct and then also some internals like config files etc.
<ndrst>
a bit like kitchen but I can't use vagrant for this
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<yorickpeterse>
monit
<yorickpeterse>
sounds like you need a supervisor
<ndrst>
no. it's part of our ci. we have a install script that installs an appliance with our tools from debian repos.
<ndrst>
this is to test if the final product before shipped to the customer works. and the install process works
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<ndrst>
the goal is to install all our stuff automatically in a vm (as close as possible to production) and to test if the install process works as expected, the packages look as they should when installed and the services are running as they should
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<yorickpeterse>
hm
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<ndrst>
hmm bats looks like something that could be abused for this.
<yorickpeterse>
andrewvos: start by not loading Rails tasks in the main Rakefile
<yorickpeterse>
or not loading Rails to begin with
<yorickpeterse>
(hint: this is a lot easie when making a Rails engine)
<yorickpeterse>
* easier
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<yxhuvud>
makes running them a lot faster as well
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<yxhuvud>
assuming it is possible to avoid rails:env or some task that depend on it
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<maloik>
zzak: are you aorund ?
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deception-lunch is now known as deception
<maloik>
If there's anyone that ever does some coding on an open source project (or anything really) and wants to pair a bit, I'd love to try that
<maloik>
think following along with other people's workflow will help me out a lot, and if its open source i might get to know some new things and hopefully contribute myself
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<yorickpeterse>
maloik: plenty of open sauce folks here
<yorickpeterse>
me included
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<maloik>
I know :-)
<maloik>
it's why I prefer to ask in here rather than rails
<maloik>
(although that's mostly because the bulk of the people active in here are nicer :D)
<yorickpeterse>
well what kind of project are you looking for?
<bougyman>
i want to get back to work on the open source callcenter but haven't had the motiviation. a pair always motivates me.
<maloik>
yorickpeterse: I try not to think of that too much, might discover new things if I let myself be surprised
<maloik>
bougyman: sounds kinda cool... twilio ?
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<yorickpeterse>
maloik: as in, whitequark is doing some hardcore parsing shit and probably could use help, ruby-llvm could use help, ruby-lint could use help, etc, etc
<maloik>
to be fair I probably won't be of much help in the start
<yorickpeterse>
that's not the point
<yorickpeterse>
it's a matter of interest. If you want to write blags all day then parsing probably would be boring
<maloik>
I know, just saying :) as I said im up for anything
<maloik>
some projects will stick more than others of course, but that will come naturally
<andrewvos>
yorickpeterse: I don't want workarounds. Rails is slow as shit. It's not possible to do TDD with it. We should just give up on it. All of us. All programmers.
<yorickpeterse>
andrewvos: the main issue you'll face is 1) no 11n support, ever 2) Linux kernel releases will randomly fuck up so your best bet is to lock down the version and try new versions once in a while
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<andrewvos>
yorickpeterse: All other ultrabooks are pretty damn ugly, and don't come in 11 inch :/
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<yorickpeterse>
lololol wifi locked up again, lets give software crypto a try to see how long it lasts
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<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: make sure you have aes_ni compiled in and loaded
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<whitequark>
andrewvos: new macbooks use iwlagn, I think; look at ux32vd, it's sort of nice
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: eh, I think it already is enabled
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<yorickpeterse>
haha, so a news article about these Fyra trains here in NL: NL train company demands they be picked up by the company that made them since they're taking up space, said company says "No that's not correct, they are in a hangar made exclusively for the trains! Fuck you!"
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<yorickpeterse>
If you go to Amsterdam there's around 8 of them standing outside
<yorickpeterse>
Not in a hangar, just outside on some track
<yorickpeterse>
darn Italians!
* yorickpeterse
shakes fist
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<ljarvis>
darix: LOC isn't a problem for me, 'improving' didn't mean making it shorter
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<TheMonster>
Hello! If I want to run system("some terminal command &") and I want to get the pid... Is that possible?
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<yorickpeterse>
yes
<yorickpeterse>
The PID of the last shell command is stored in $?
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<ridders24>
Hi I get the following error due to a filename with UTF-8 chars, how do I solve this? `stat': No such file or directory - S:/1234/Extracted Files/filetest ???.amr (Errno::ENOENT) https://gist.github.com/anonymous/6586372
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<yorickpeterse>
Does anybody know if there's some app somewhere that can take a Github org (private) and generate a bunch of stats per repo?
<yorickpeterse>
such as total commit count, additions, deletions, etc
<yorickpeterse>
I can run this on the raw git repo but then I have to clone/update a fuckton of them
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<tubbo>
yorickpeterse: http://github.com has something like that i think ;)
<whitequark>
tl;dr: let's make something with ruby-like metaprogramming and c-level efficiency, and use it for tiny devices where C shines today.
<whitequark>
so far, it turns out perfectly :p
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: control over scope; nice placing for a type annotation; being able to do proper pattern matching and not just the ugly array decomposition thing
<zenspider>
whitequark: so... to answer your question... I have no idea if that counts as ruby, but at least it is CODE and not incessant bitching about unrelated shit.
<zenspider>
that's impressive looking
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: ah
<yorickpeterse>
andrewvos: I think somebody wants us to continue about you making the switch to the dark side
<yorickpeterse>
* continue talking
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<whitequark>
zenspider: heh. sometimes that's going to work as an USB device driver. think of the chip which is present in your mouse or keyboard.
<whitequark>
I've yet to patch the compiler quite a bit though...
<zenspider>
*nod*
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<whitequark>
(USB device driver as in, device-side one. it runs on that chip and not on the host PC.)
<whitequark>
good, then I didn't spend two years for nothing :)
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<zenspider>
what's the plan?
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<andrewvos>
yorickpeterse: I give up. Apple has made the nicest laptops. I'm going to see how painful getting ubuntu going on my MBA is
<yorickpeterse>
haha
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<yorickpeterse>
you can also just get one of those Macbook knock-offs
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<whitequark>
zenspider: spend several months polishing the compiler, make a "Rubyduino", go to a ton of conferences and tell people, eventually reach professional embedded devs.
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<whitequark>
foundry was designed from ground up to be as good as C or better (at typical embedded workloads), so it's no toy.
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<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: so looking at c_unicode, wouldn't `c_unicode = c_any - 0x00..0x7f` mean that `c_unicode` does *not* contain Unicode? Or am I misunderstanding what the 0x00 range does?
<yorickpeterse>
I'm guessing the latter
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<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: you are... 0x00..0x7f means "ascii", so any - ascii = unicode
<zenspider>
rubyduino would be fun to play with. much better than the stuff that was done based on ruby2c
<whitequark>
zenspider: sure. I've a talk at railsclub.ru @ sep 28th, not sure if you go
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<whitequark>
I'd be giving out demo boards ("rubyduinos") there, though production issues means there would prolly be only 3 or so :/
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: aha
<zenspider>
to a russian nerd club? no... the bus doesn't go that far
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: what location?
<whitequark>
zenspider: eh, it's just a conference
<zenspider>
I forget the name, but that might be the one I was invited to speak at. I declined in part because of the distance and in part due to political issues.
<yorickpeterse>
what is this, ticket website in Russian
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<whitequark>
zenspider: I see... yeah, I can understand that.
<zenspider>
if you could drop ship me some pelmeni that'd be great tho... that's what I was gonna ask for my stipend. :P
<yorickpeterse>
either way, if your shit wasn't in Rusky I probably would've booked a cheap train ticket for a weekend
<yorickpeterse>
oh fuck wait
<yorickpeterse>
visas
<yorickpeterse>
DAARRNRNN YOU RUSSIA
<zenspider>
I still have a hundred in my freezer I should thaw... it's finally getting cooler here
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<andrewvos>
You need a visa for russia?
<andrewvos>
I thought you didn't need a visa in the EU?
<yorickpeterse>
andrewvos: I believe so, it's not part of the EU
<whitequark>
lolwhat
<andrewvos>
It isn't? TIL
<yorickpeterse>
wait, not sure
<yorickpeterse>
it's late, let me check
<whitequark>
of course it's not
<zenspider>
EU? hell no
<andrewvos>
Yeah hehe that does sound right
<yorickpeterse>
either way, I recall my Russian co-worker talking about visas and shit
<yorickpeterse>
though that might've been from Russia -> EU
<andrewvos>
I'm south african so I basically need a visa to go anywhere
<zenspider>
old guys still run EU. russia won't be a part of the EU (not that they want to be) until they die
<andrewvos>
Sucks
<yorickpeterse>
andrewvos: at least you're white
<andrewvos>
Not sure how that helps
<yorickpeterse>
less bigotry
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: don't think EU->RU would be any problem
<yorickpeterse>
lemme check that too
<andrewvos>
Well that's true I suppose
<andrewvos>
But you still tend to hate the bigots, even if you're white ;)
<whitequark>
not that RU->EU is
<yorickpeterse>
yup, you need a visa
<whitequark>
zenspider: well idk, I could send you a demo board anyway (in exchange for a blog post or a review of course)
<zenspider>
hrm... I could get pelmeni from whitequark... biltong (sp?) from andrewvos ... I get italian cured meats from tenderlove... pickles from thagomizer... damn. I should open a store
<whitequark>
but that's when I have more than four... at least two months from now
<andrewvos>
zenspider: I live in England. But yeah there's biltong here too
<zenspider>
actually the law here says that the one thing that tenderlove CAN'T do is sell his meats
<zenspider>
andrewvos: there is? I wouldn't think the weather would let that happen
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<andrewvos>
zenspider: Nahh you don't really need the heat
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<andrewvos>
zenspider: Shit just needs to dry
<zenspider>
seattle is basically the same as london weather wise... and biltong doesn't work here at all
<andrewvos>
zenspider: Actually my brother in law lived in Cali and made his own biltong there, if you're interested. Google is your friend there
<zenspider>
I think my SA friends have made it here successfully once
<zenspider>
and you can't import it here
<andrewvos>
Oh ok well Seattle isn't Cali I gues
<andrewvos>
s
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<andrewvos>
Bet you can find a South African shop there
<zenspider>
I could get it from cali... just can't enter the country. just like french cheese
<zenspider>
if you could, I would have heard about it.
<zenspider>
we have tons of somali here in seattle... all the SAers are nerds... no shops
<andrewvos>
Weird
<andrewvos>
There's loads here
<andrewvos>
There's a SA store in the London underground
<zenspider>
haha. 800 biltong I'm guessing that's the one
<zenspider>
more obvious connections between SA and GB
<andrewvos>
We're both colonies
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: so is Foundry going to feature Foundryroutines? :>
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<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: threads and fibers, yes
<yorickpeterse>
those are not goroutines!
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<whitequark>
goroutines = threads
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<drbrain>
Darkchaos: (?<username>…) requires ruby 1.9 and newer
<drbrain>
also, you can write that as: /<h2 class="title">Welcome (?<curr_user>.*)<\/h2>/ =~ mainframe; p curr_user, no need for the redundant assignment
<Darkchaos>
but using numbers will do?
<drbrain>
using numbers will do
<Darkchaos>
cool :)
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<Darkchaos>
will /<h2 class="title">Welcome (..)<\/h2>\ =- mainframe; p 1 do ?