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<rwjblue>
Not sure if this is a dumb question or not, but is there a reason fiddle wouldn't be available? I am running Ubuntu 12.04 and ruby-1.9.3-p362 (compile by rvm).
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<havenn>
rwjblue: You get a LoadError when you?: require 'fiddle'
<rwjblue>
havenn: yes
<rwjblue>
Really bizzare. Was thinking maybe I needed some ubuntu package or something...
<rwjblue>
havenn: thanks, will run through that list first (compiling on linode is PAINFUL)
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<rwjblue>
havenn: that worked!
<havenn>
rwjblue: woot :D
<rwjblue>
Also rvm binary installs for the win
<rwjblue>
havenn: thanks again
<havenn>
rwjblue: No prob, happy hacking!
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<iamjarvo>
does anyone have links to articles on ruby's maturity, what companies contribute to ruby and who dictates what features get developed ?
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<drbrain>
iamjarvo: nothing comes to mind in terms of articles
<iamjarvo>
any info would be much appreciated
<drbrain>
iamjarvo: Heroku (and it's parent Salesforce) employ Matz, Koichi and Nobu (and maybe another person) to work on CRuby
<drbrain>
Red Hat employs Charles Nutter, Tom Enebo (and others?) to work on JRuby
<drbrain>
Engine Yard employs Brian Ford to work on Rubinius
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<drbrain>
VMWare employs some people to work on MagLev, Ruby on Gemstone (a Smalltalk DB)
<drbrain>
Microsoft used to employ people to work on IronRuby, but this has now stopped
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<drbrain>
Apple used to employ Laurent to work on MacRuby, but I'm unsure if anyone is paid to work on it at this time. Laurent works on RubyMotion which is based in part on his work at Apple
<drbrain>
Matz decides which features are Ruby
<drbrain>
there are many people who are paid part-time to work on ruby libraries or ruby itself, I'm one of them
<drbrain>
there are a few people who are paid to work full-time on ruby libraries
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<drbrain>
anyone can propose a feature be added to ruby
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<iamjarvo>
drbrain i thought the community is starting to have more of an influence on features
<iamjarvo>
there was talk about a governance recently right?
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<drbrain>
Matz is still Benevolent Dictator for Life
<drbrain>
but Matz is easy to convince
<drbrain>
many long-time contributors to CRuby feel Matz should remain BFDL, myself included
<drbrain>
there have been several times when Matz has said "I'm going to do X" then later says "I can't do X, it is wrong" or someone convinces Matz that X is wrong, even in part
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<UziMonkey>
as someone who grew up learning that SQL is something you stuff into a PHP string literal on a single line, this type of SQL is beautiful. I have no idea what that does though :P
<whitequark>
UziMonkey: there are raw stats, which are essentially tuples of (kind,resource)
<whitequark>
one such tuple is created on each webpage hit
<whitequark>
and there are hourly stats, which are tuples of (count,kind,resource) per each hour
<whitequark>
this method converts the former into the latter, taking care to compute cumulative counts in a composable way
<UziMonkey>
OK, I see what it does now
<UziMonkey>
some of the keywords are foreign to me, like WINDOW and COALESCE, but it's pretty clear now what it's all doing
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<savagecroc>
i have a rakefile with 100 rake tasks, at the beginning of each rake task is a call to the same function
<savagecroc>
is there a way i can simplify that?
<savagecroc>
like before :all
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<injekt>
put it in another task
<injekt>
then
<injekt>
task :foo => :other
<injekt>
with all your tasks
<whitequark>
UziMonkey: postgres keywords
<savagecroc>
hmmm
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<savagecroc>
that doesn't save much duplication
<UziMonkey>
yeah, that's about the same
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<savagecroc>
oh well :)
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<chekcmate>
morning guys
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<injekt>
moin
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<savagecroc>
hmm
<savagecroc>
[true, true, true].all? {|a| a} << does that look like a good way of checking if everything in the array is true?
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<dominikh>
savagecroc: you can use #all? without a block and it'll do that
<yorickpeterse>
Sometimes I don't understand /r/ruby: a post about a Nyan Cat rspec formatter gets more upvotes than a mirror system
<yorickpeterse>
Maybe I should just include cat pictures in my code
<Paradox>
yorickpeterse, the amusing thing is that formatter is like 3 years old
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<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: reddit and hn mostly upvote bullshit
<Paradox>
reddit's been going downhill since 2011
<whitequark>
at some point this happens to every such system around (I've watched the same process happen at habr.ru)
<Paradox>
check my hostmask ;p
<whitequark>
hah
<Paradox>
i dont work for them anymore anyway
<Paradox>
lol
<Paradox>
now i float between jobs
<Paradox>
starting to look at summer internships/jobs
<Paradox>
i did one at pivotal last year and it was fun
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<Paradox>
but i didnt agree with some of their core principles so
<Paradox>
always time to grow :)
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: I stopped posting on HackerNews due to the Lisp/Python neckbeards
<Paradox>
yorickpeterse, they used to be all over reddit
<Paradox>
hell
<Paradox>
in r/programming, its a crapshoot
<yorickpeterse>
ugh
<yorickpeterse>
Tell me about it
<Paradox>
if you post when the Haskell or Python sperglords are awake
<Paradox>
then you get downvoted
<Paradox>
and insulted by 14 year olds
<Paradox>
"luls ruby isnt programming language it no have for"
<yorickpeterse>
I should repost my stuff with the title "gem-mirror now uses Monads, 2000x performance boost"
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: what's that bad about lisp/python neckbeards? I think I don't quite understand what you imply by the term
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<whitequark>
Paradox: this is especially amusing given that ruby has for :D
<Paradox>
whitequark, you know how ruby has MINSWAN?
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: the ones that will instantly go like "ZOMG, YOU SHOULD WRITE IT IN LISP BECAUSE <stupid reason>"
<whitequark>
Paradox: ruby also has DHH, but yeah
<Paradox>
python, lisp, and haskell have GIDSWAD
<Paradox>
Guido is a douche so we are douches
<whitequark>
is Guido?
<yorickpeterse>
Ah well, hopefully people like the mirror stuff. At least it will be useful for $WORK
<Paradox>
Guido is a dude who invited python
<Paradox>
(aka basically turned C into a scripting language)
<whitequark>
I know. He's a horrible language designer but I never found his actions despicable
<Paradox>
no, but he has a particularly heavy hand towards dealing with newbies
<Paradox>
not as bad as Rasmus Lerdorf
<whitequark>
isn't python mainly a programming language for newbies?..
<Paradox>
but by ruby standards
<Paradox>
he's a flaming ass
<whitequark>
as in "we're academics, we don't want to learn programming"
<Paradox>
whitequark, yes
<Paradox>
but being academics comes with other baggage
<Paradox>
mainly
<Paradox>
the fact that everything they do comes with a sense of smug self-superiority
<Paradox>
so if you dont understand some concept you must be dumber than shit because i mean come on its so simple!
<Paradox>
/s
<whitequark>
I did notice that pattern sometimes among rubyists as well (including myself).
<Paradox>
i really havent
<Paradox>
i transferred out of CS to COMM
<Paradox>
and couldnt have been happier
<Paradox>
i went from neckbeards to pretty girls
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: the pattern is universal
<whitequark>
girls are overrated
<Paradox>
i disagree
<whitequark>
or rather prettiness. but I digress.
<yorickpeterse>
I beg to differ but that's a different story
<Paradox>
i dont know
<Paradox>
i wouldnt want to date a whale
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<Paradox>
i'd post an image here but this is a somewhat professional channel
<Paradox>
lol
<Paradox>
and i got yelled at in #rubyonrails for that a week or so ago
<yorickpeterse>
also lol rasmus
<Paradox>
programming dochebaggery has a scale
<whitequark>
those languages do have simple and powerful concepts which are hard to comprehend if you come from a radically different background
<Paradox>
1 guido is 10 DHHs
<yorickpeterse>
<rasmus> I can't write programming languages. Lets write the aids of programming languages!
<Paradox>
1000 guidos, or a kiloguido, is a rasmus
<yorickpeterse>
Paradox: oh? I've never met Guido (not yet at least) but never found him to be annoying
<yorickpeterse>
Maybe that's because I'm Dutch too and used to the blunt/direct attitude
<Paradox>
i've just had bad experience with people who call themselves "python programmers"
<Paradox>
as opposed to "programmers who use python"
<whitequark>
sigh. yeah let's discuss personalities and namedrop much
* whitequark
goes back to work
<Paradox>
anyway
<Paradox>
we can all agree that haskell is obtuse
<whitequark>
I won't
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<whitequark>
also, if we're talking about haskell, I don't get all the fuss around monads and thousands of explanations of them
<whitequark>
the concept is trivial if you know how purity and lazy evaluation work
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<yorickpeterse>
It's a phase
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: a phase?
<yorickpeterse>
As in, it's the hot shit these days similar to Node or Rails back in 2006
<yorickpeterse>
No doubt it's useful but I fear people are considering it the answer for all problems
<yorickpeterse>
and yes, the one Haskell dev I met instantly started talking about Monads (I'm not kidding)
<yorickpeterse>
It went something like "Hi, do you use Ruby too?" "Nah I write Haskell. Monads bla bla bla"
<whitequark>
I'm not sure how exactly it is useful in real life
<whitequark>
as in, I'm not aware of any "killer apps"
<whitequark>
and there isn't much benefit per se
<ddfreyne>
whitequark: I fin di tmostly interesting because it has some paradigms that can be very useful
<ddfreyne>
whitequark: I would also like to be able to mark certain parts of a Ruby DSL to be side-effect free, either purely declarative or purely functional
<ddfreyne>
whitequark: It would make internal DSLs much more robust and easier to reason about
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<whitequark>
ddfreyne: what you said is important
<whitequark>
I find that in all (not almost) cases when a programming language plain out forbids something it is done to assist the compiler/runtime
<whitequark>
starting with lexical scope
<whitequark>
in some cases, this also makes stuff easier to reason about for people
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<whitequark>
but then, a general-purpose PL, by definition, is a tool for solving a very wide range of tasks
<whitequark>
making absolutely everything immutable won't work out for one
<whitequark>
so. monads are an interesting concept, and they for sure make compilers' life way easier. same for immutability. but to do real work you'd need a multiparadigm language.
<whitequark>
ddfreyne: as per internal DSLs, this is just a consequence of Ruby not having embedded DSLs
<whitequark>
I like Kotlin for solving this problem
<whitequark>
also you might want to check out OMeta
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<ddfreyne>
I'm all in favour of multi-paradigm languages
<ddfreyne>
I find that Ruby is not restrictive enough in several ways
<ddfreyne>
Being so flexible is an advantage for getting started with it, though
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<whitequark>
I don't see any links there
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<whitequark>
besides, Ruby being not restrictive enough is quite often a sign of a different problem
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<whitequark>
i.e. in your example, lack of embedded DSLs.
<ddfreyne>
whitequark: Yes
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<ddfreyne>
whitequark: IMO, being able to modify classes and methods at runtime is often not necessary... it would be neat to somehow "freeze" all that, but I suppose that would bring a bunch of other problems
<ddfreyne>
whitequark: I really want to play around with my own programming language :)
<whitequark>
ddfreyne: being able to do that is a prerequisite for having a REPL
<whitequark>
which is *very* important for debugging, quick tests, etc.
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<whitequark>
the cost of having a heavy and complex optimizing JIT is outweighted by the benefit
<ddfreyne>
whitequark: Hmm, not sure... it certainly makes things easier
<ddfreyne>
whitequark: Haskell has a REPL :)
<ddfreyne>
rue|w: you work for Reaktor?
<whitequark>
ddfreyne: oh, "modify"
<rue|w>
ddfreyne: Yes, are you spying on me? :)
<ddfreyne>
rue|w: hostmask
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<whitequark>
ddfreyne: I wonder how Haskell web frameworks handle auto-reloading ("PHP mode")
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<ddfreyne>
rue|w: I've talked with Juha and Lauri
<ddfreyne>
whitequark: Yeah, that would be very tricky I imagine
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<rue|w>
ddfreyne: Ah, cool! Which context was this in?
<ddfreyne>
rue|w: nanoc
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<rue|w>
Ah, of course :)
<ddfreyne>
rue|w: not looking for developers by any chance? ;)
<rue|w>
ddfreyne: Actually yes, but I think we still require mad finnish skillz
<rue|w>
But I’ll find out :P
<ddfreyne>
I only know the world maailman
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<chekcmate>
ddfreyne: tell them you listen to In Flames a lot, that'll make things easier!
<chekcmate>
Oh wait, that was Sweden...
<chekcmate>
Finntroll maybe
<ddfreyne>
haha
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<rue|w>
chekcmate: Also in Swedish
<rue|w>
Finnish, but of the Swedish-speaking minority
<chekcmate>
rue|w: oic
<chekcmate>
didn't know that
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<chekcmate>
rue|w: I was winter-hiking once near Gällivare, but I haven't been to Finnland yet
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<ddfreyne>
rue|w: So you have no foreigners working for Reaktor then?
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<chekcmate>
though it would have been only about 2 hard days to the border :p
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<yorickpeterse>
ddfreyne: really all you need to know to work there: cats like saunas and "bork bork bork"
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<yorickpeterse>
hm, apparently I already had rue|w's website in my Chrome cache
<yorickpeterse>
I think that's probably because it's called "kittensoft"
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<ddfreyne>
yorickpeterse: I also know that Finland is trees and lakes
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<yorickpeterse>
You should be set!
* whitequark
is an array
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<whitequark>
sets are soooo last century
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<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: /nick arrayquark
<andrewvos>
whitearray
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<yorickpeterse>
That reminds me though, I still need to do a proper visit of Scandinavia sometime
<yorickpeterse>
Last time I was there (with the exception of Denmark) was ages ago
<yorickpeterse>
Though I've met some Norwegians/Swedes that insisted Denmark isn't an actual country
<dominikh>
I've met a Swede who had this plan of turning Denmark into a huge parking lot for Sweden
<kalleth>
written some ruby that rubs me up the wrong way