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<naquad>
are there any network-monitoring solutions written in ruby?
<naquad>
i need some small tool that will ssh to host do the checks (memory, free space, cpu load, network connectivity, ...) and display them on web interface
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<darix>
naquad: sensu
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<naquad>
"Platform-independent agent written in Ruby." - if not that i could try
<naquad>
i don't want to install ruby where its needed only for monitoring agent
<zzak>
huh?
<naquad>
?
<zzak>
you dont want to install ruby, but you want a network-monitoring solution written in ruby?
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<naquad>
zzak, i want a monitoring solution in ruby, i don't want solution that requires ruby on target hosts
<zzak>
oh, gotcha
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<zzak>
naquad: have you tried newrelic?
<zzak>
also, if you need something a little more custom, you can always cobble something together with net/ssh and sinatra
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<imperator>
you'll shoot your eye out kid
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<darix>
naquad: i would look into teaching sensu ssh based checks. e.g. nagios/icinga supports them.
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<darix>
maybe something like that exists for sensu too
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<manveru>
hmm, mounting remote / with sshfs and doing checks that way :P
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<manveru>
i bet someone will do that now, and i have to repent my words the rest of my life
<zzak>
prolly
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<imperator>
isn't that what nfs is? more or less?
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<imperator>
blargh
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<postmodern>
someone didn't test their bot
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<imperator>
been a while since i had to do that :(
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<Paradox>
i just let my lines go as long as they want
<Paradox>
but if it gets ridiculous i step back
<Paradox>
and think
<Paradox>
should this be refactored
<andrewvos>
injekt: I have printed and popped them in the mail
<apeiros_>
80 col limit just encourages short method names
<injekt>
andrewvos: :D
<apeiros_>
and short varnames
<apeiros_>
which is an issue of its own
<bnagy>
ddfreyne: oddly enough, 2 x 100 plus the sidebar and two miniviews in ST2 is almost exactly the width of my screem :D
<Paradox>
apeiros_, which, as i was taught anyway, isnt idiomatic ruby
<Paradox>
i mean
<Paradox>
which is more descriptive
<chris2>
80 ftw
<Paradox>
"blargs"
<Paradox>
or "x"
<Paradox>
when you're talking about a game
<Paradox>
where there are aliens called blargs
<injekt>
andrewvos: right, basically you just cant define classes in method bodies, cant you do it outside?
<apeiros_>
Paradox: I think it's not just a ruby thing. good code uses concise, descriptive names
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<ddfreyne>
bnagy: I use fullscreen terminal, so it is super minimalistic ;) (with vim)
<andrewvos>
injekt: Well, no because I'm going to have different Command classes added to application.
<andrewvos>
injekt: Depending on the test case.
<Paradox>
apeiros_, the idiom i was taught to was that dont use hard wraps, dont use unfathomable names, and don't abuse single-line statements
<Paradox>
among other things
<apeiros_>
and a descriptive name easily is some 10-20 chars. add an indent of say 6 chars and you can have 3 vars only in a single line with 80 col limit…
<Paradox>
well
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<Paradox>
some scopes i've had in models are pretty ugly
<Paradox>
takes a user's, gets their posts, gets the posts comments, computes a sum score, and formats it into a location-proper decimal
<injekt>
gnufied: my bad :( andrewvos gnufied actually mentoned const_set before but I thought it was a silly idea because I didn't know you were trying to define it in a method body
<injekt>
gnufied: ;)
<gnufied>
lol.
<ddfreyne>
What's the story behind pride?
<andrewvos>
injekt: It's SO BEAUTIFUL
<injekt>
ryan was bored one day?
<injekt>
andrewvos: it really is
<andrewvos>
Probably nyan cat related
<injekt>
it's still funny that pride ships with minitest
<Paradox>
i love the nyan cat rspec formatter
<injekt>
best comment: # Make the string even more colorful. Damnit.
<injekt>
ddfreyne: slop commands are shit, but I've never had to use them so I never really worked on a nice UI
<injekt>
ddfreyne: you know that, otherwise there wouldn't be cri ;)
<injekt>
s/UI/API/
<injekt>
haha I actually wrote 'lightweird' I meant 'lightweight'
<ddfreyne>
injekt: well, cri was built with commands in might, right at the start
<ddfreyne>
s/might/mind/
<injekt>
ddfreyne: yeah
<injekt>
it was an afterthought with slop, and I kinda regret even adding them
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<ddfreyne>
injekt: one addition to cri that I am thinking about is allowing command descriptions (displayed when you add --help) in Markdown, and have a Markdown formatter for terminals
<ddfreyne>
Kramdown should make that fairly easy
<injekt>
ddfreyne: that's pretty intense
<injekt>
would be neat
<ddfreyne>
other than that, I haven't really touched cri in a long while because it just works
<injekt>
yeah
<ddfreyne>
injekt: I am generating HTML docs (with nanoc) from Cri commands :)
<ddfreyne>
the advantages of having a nice API... :)
<injekt>
cant tell if subtle dig
<injekt>
they look good
<ddfreyne>
perhaps an idea for slop :)
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<dRbiG>
ok, this is driving me mad - anyone had any experience with PTY and TCPServer and implementing something akin to a telnetd?
<injekt>
heh, I can traverse all the options nicely (the api is easy to use for that) but stuff like that should probably be separate and not ship with slop
<injekt>
hell, im thinking i should do that with commands too
<ddfreyne>
injekt: the API is basically... you have Command instances and they have a list of otpions as member variables... so there's nothing special there
<ddfreyne>
injekt: extending objects at runtime is slow
<injekt>
extensions are optional
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<injekt>
it's only for a response object so you could do JsonExt; def json_body; JSON.parse(self.body); .. then Nettle.get("...").json_body #=> [{..}, {..}]
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<ddfreyne>
yeah
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<banisterfiend>
l
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<banisterfiend>
ddfreyne: can a command have both flags and subcommands and is help for both of those auto-generated?
<darix>
isnt nanoc using cri for its cmdline handling?
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<ddfreyne>
banisterfiend: yes and yes
<ddfreyne>
darix: Cri was originally part of nanoc but I extracted it into a separate reusable library. nanoc still uses it
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<injekt>
banisterfiend: dont worry slop command stuff will be cleaned up soon ;) is that guy still working on a patch or can i just go ahead and rewrite it myself?
<banisterfiend>
injekt: im not sure, i'll ask him
<darix>
ddfreyne: i know. i package and use it!:p
<banisterfiend>
injekt: he's AFK :) but his nick is kyrylo, he hangs on #pry
<injekt>
banisterfiend: alright
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<whitequark>
just use trollop
<ddfreyne>
darix: nice :) package it for where?
<ddfreyne>
ahh, OpenSUSE
<injekt>
trollop is WHY i built slop
<banisterfiend>
ddfreyne: do u have any of slop's k00 type conversion: i.e opt.on :l, :lines, "Only play a subset of lines.", :optional_argument => true, :as => Range, :default => 1..-1
<banisterfiend>
ddfreyne: let's me pass in a range argument: --lines 2..10
<banisterfiend>
and gives me a Range too :))
<ddfreyne>
banisterfiend: nope, none at all... values remain as strings
<banisterfiend>
oh ok
<banisterfiend>
i like it, it saves us a lot of boiler plate
<ddfreyne>
I don't need it so cri doesn't have it
<banisterfiend>
fair enough
<injekt>
I think it always comes to a point where apps need specific cli stuff so many people implement their own thing
<injekt>
like slop doesn't fit a lot of use cases (nanocs included), enter cri
<ddfreyne>
injekt: my goal with cri is to make it as generally usable as possible
<injekt>
my original goal with slop was simply to remove the boiler place code of optionparser with the whole { |opt| options[opt] = true } and stuff like that
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<injekt>
I really need to find some time for chronic
<judofyr>
is that the time parser?
<injekt>
aye
<judofyr>
I've always wondered how that actually works :)
<injekt>
lots of tokenizing :)
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<injekt>
there's a replacement in the works, too
<injekt>
but.. i need to find time for that, as well :-/
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<judofyr>
is it better?
<judofyr>
is it on GitHub?
<injekt>
no, and I want to replace chronic (even though i would like to get chronic 1.0 out there first)
<injekt>
chronic has many limitations
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<judofyr>
like?
<injekt>
but, that shit is hard
<banisterfiend>
injekt: do you use any NLP libs or is it a hoem brew thing
<banisterfiend>
injekt: i just mean generally for making sense of the natural language
<injekt>
the tokenizer is actually more of a lexer
<injekt>
banisterfiend: chronic basically generates tokens from words, then applies tags to each of those tokens, a tag is applied if the tokens value matches a constraint
<injekt>
banisterfiend: for example "2000" would be applied the tag 'year' and 'time'
<injekt>
and I believe the act of applying meta data to a token makes it less of a tokenizer and more of a lexer
<judofyr>
injekt: I've always used tokenizer and lexer interchangeably
<judofyr>
injekt: I'd rather have something like Chronic in JS though
<injekt>
judofyr: yeah I dived a little deeper in and was told (by some) that a tokenizer has 'tokens' which are simple objects meant to do nothing more than represent the value itself, where a lexer would store more meta information upon these tokens, but i dunno
<injekt>
judofyr: i believe soemthing like that exists
<banisterfiend>
injekt: you prefer minitest to minispec ?
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<injekt>
banisterfiend: I do
<injekt>
I dont like my test suite adding methods to Object
<judofyr>
why would someone Object to that?
<injekt>
HAR
<injekt>
that said, I do much prefer 'must' over 'should'
<injekt>
should never made any sense to me
<injekt>
may as well use "foo.might equal(blah)"
<banisterfiend>
injekt: the thing i like about *spec frameworks (and bacon, which is what i use) is you can have nested testing contexts, describe "bar" do; describe "foo" do
<injekt>
you can add that to minitest easily
<injekt>
I do like bacon, it used to be all i used
<injekt>
but i never liked test/unit much, minitest is nice :)
<judofyr>
minitest/benchmark is also nic
<judofyr>
nice*
<judofyr>
if you're implementing algorithms
<judofyr>
I've used it to make sure an algorithm runs in O(n^3)
<injekt>
nice
<judofyr>
and O(n)
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<injekt>
judofyr: did you start your orm yet?
<judofyr>
injekt: I have
<injekt>
keeping it quiet?
<judofyr>
but it needs some refactorings
<judofyr>
yeah
<judofyr>
I'm a quiet person
<ddfreyne>
I don't like the .should.equal() whatever syntax
<ddfreyne>
Too magic-looking
<DefV>
agreed
<ddfreyne>
For every method/function call, I want to be able ot guess what the return value is. What is the return value of .should? or .equal?
<injekt>
in bacon it's pretty easy, .should returns an instance of Should and you can add/call methods on that
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<injekt>
that said, I still prefer standard assertions
<andrewvos>
injekt: I'm not sure I want to support --long=bla
<injekt>
darix: haha, i had no idea
<injekt>
darix: nice
<injekt>
andrewvos: :D
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<darix>
"How to toggle between 2 windows?" - "/bind meta-x command window last" now pressing meta/alt+x toggles between 2 windows.
<injekt>
andrewvos: also slop supports -foo as an option as well as -abc as multiple options
<darix>
is also nice if you wanna follow 2 channels e.g.
<andrewvos>
injekt: So "foo" is an option and "a", "b" and "c" are all options?
<injekt>
andrewvos: yes, it has a flag to toggling that behaviour
<andrewvos>
injekt: Fuck that noise. I'm like the DHH of option parsers.
<injekt>
haha
<andrewvos>
CLOSED
<andrewvos>
:)
<injekt>
my fav thing about slop is autocreate
<injekt>
Slop.parse(autocreate: true) is all you need in your code
<andrewvos>
Oh wow
<andrewvos>
injekt: Shit
<andrewvos>
injekt: Maybe my library should only support that
<injekt>
hahaha
<andrewvos>
injekt: Would make it much more simple
<injekt>
true
<andrewvos>
injekt: But what if a user omits a parameter that is required?
<andrewvos>
I suppose that could be handled in code
<injekt>
how is it required? you didn't specify it ;)
<andrewvos>
Well, if it's not an optional parameter I mean
<injekt>
if you want a required option, you'll need to tell it, other wise it'll parse "--foo bar --baz" as "foo" with the argument "bar" and "--baz" will be true
<injekt>
andrewvos: right, but using autocreate you dont have that leverage
<andrewvos>
injekt: I think I'm going to stick with what I've got. Don't want to waste an entire day of work on personal projects :) (Feeling a bit guilty)
<injekt>
:D
<andrewvos>
Yeah that does look quite easy :)
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<injekt>
funny slop supports -aFoo too, didn't even know i did that
<injekt>
glebm: eh, I responded, you should have prompted me on here or added it as a comment, as an answer it's going to be downvoted by others because well, it's not an answer
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<glebm>
injekt: let's figure out what the problem is, then I can delete the answer.
<glebm>
the indentation issues all seem to happen before the first comma in the line, so looks like @connection.column_spec is the culprit
<glebm>
injekt: They are in a different order from what I can see in your question!
<injekt>
glebm: right it's possible, but there's no reasonable way to explain it if two people are using the same version of everything
<injekt>
glebm: I realize ordering is an issue, but it's the least of the issues, either way the bottom line is, it should be the same for both people
<glebm>
injekt: Not necessarily; there are plenty of things in the system that just use rand seed
<injekt>
eh, rails doesn't do random sorting or indenting for the schema dump
<injekt>
that would screw everyone over and it would be a whitespread issue
<injekt>
widespread*
<injekt>
we use the same version of postgres, so the column specs should also be the same
<judofyr>
injekt: totally out of the blue, but: I have a programming language idea: a language with ambiguous syntax where all versions of the code will be evaluated. and in fact, many things can only be accomplished by writing ambiguous code (e.g. IFs)
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<injekt>
judofyr: that would hurt my head
<judofyr>
injekt: I just haven't figured out *how* it would actually work
<glebm>
injekt: OK, finished looking at the rails source for this. It's completely deterministic. Random guess, but do you have any git post commit hooks defined?
<badeball>
pardon me for intruding, but assuming I know what you're talking about, injekt and glebm, I want to point out something that I think constitutes a reason for sorting, like glebm suggests. this is my diff in production mode after migrating: https://gist.github.com/4453136.
<injekt>
glebm: nope they were the first things I looked at
<judofyr>
injekt: hm. are you sure you have the same default-value in the DB?
<injekt>
judofyr: the schemas are identical in that sense
<glebm>
Aha
<injekt>
badeball: yeah I can understand that happening
<glebm>
injekt: It's JUST the sorting! :)
<injekt>
no it's really not
<glebm>
injekt: The alignment by spaces depends on the order :)
<glebm>
amirite?
<injekt>
rongur
<judofyr>
glebm: the :default-value
<injekt>
^
<injekt>
and it wouldn't explain why it's the same every time for each of us, but different against each others
<judofyr>
injekt: the only thing I can think of: you ran the migration on a different version of YAML, so the default-value stored in Postgres is different
<injekt>
what unique constraint is there that makes our schemas dump in a different order or with different defaults or something
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<injekt>
judofyr: I thought that at first, but I went back and ensured we have the same version of everything, and even now when we run migrations it's the same story
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<glebm>
Well
<glebm>
C-libraries too?
<glebm>
like libyaml
<judofyr>
injekt: I would run some SQL-queries in psql to double-check the default values
<injekt>
right that's what judofyr is saying, glebm
<injekt>
judofyr: yeah
<judofyr>
injekt: in psql: \d table_name
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<injekt>
yup exactly the same data types and default vaeus
<injekt>
valus-
<injekt>
wow
<injekt>
my shell is so laggy
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<injekt>
mm weird
<judofyr>
then Rails is totally being retarded :(
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<injekt>
:(
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<injekt>
wait wtf
<glebm>
Does require 'yaml'; {}.to_yaml result in the same thing on both machines?
<glebm>
Just to make sure
* judofyr
is still waiting wtf
<injekt>
judofyr: nevermind, yeah one pq column for serialized hash has extra newlines, nothing wtf worthy
<glebm>
Oh actually FYI
<glebm>
Syck generates \n\n
<glebm>
Psych generates \n
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<glebm>
As in {}.to_yaml: "--- {}\n" on psych vs "--- {}\n\n" on syck
<injekt>
heh, we're both definitely using psych
<injekt>
both return {}\n on both machines
<injekt>
:)
<injekt>
I have been debugging this for weeks, these things I have already checked, which is why I cant explain it
<glebm>
Contents of .git/info/exclude are identical on both machines?
<glebm>
I know you've probably checked most of these already, but something MUST be different :)
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<injekt>
lol
<injekt>
all git config is identical yup
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<injekt>
the other guy has got another machine so I'm having him do the same thing on there and see what happens
<rking>
andrewvos: Wait, there are teams competing in this misogyny competition?
<andrewvos>
hehe
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<tockitj>
drbrain, why - girls are going to attract more serious programmers - its good to have them around
<blahwoop>
how much experience does a junior dev need to be considered a junior dev
<tockitj>
(win)
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<blahwoop>
lol
<blahwoop>
BAM
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<tockitj>
just a joke, ofc (:
<workmad3>
pfft, if you're just saying these things to win a competition, you're already not being mysogynistic :P
<blahwoop>
uh oh
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<tockitj_>
duh
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<andrewvos>
heh
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<workmad3>
heh
<dRbiG>
anyone here knows internals of Pry? I wonder why tab-completion (as in 'tab y') paging works on my pty/telnet-thing, but 'normal' paging (as in 'methods <enter>') breakes
<andrewvos>
dRbiG: #pry
<havenn>
dRbiG: #pry is well-populated and helpful!
<dRbiG>
aye aye
<rking>
dRbiG: I actually have a bit of a pry paging issue myself.
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<islander>
Where do I save files from sublime text on a Mac so that it is in the same directory as the irb?
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<emocakes>
islander...
<emocakes>
it all depends on where you open the irb from
<emocakes>
pry is nice
<havenn>
islander: If you're launching the default Terminal and running irb you would be in the Home directory (from Finder shift-command-H). Type pwd instead of irb to see the working directory name.
<havenn>
emocakes: I think my terminal is pretty, but I prefer to keep it to one line: http://goo.gl/zU957
<emocakes>
good point
<emocakes>
oh-my-zsh <3
<havenn>
Nice, rbenv adopted .ruby-version support with 0.4.0. So .ruby-version is now supported by RVM, rbenv, chruby, rbfu, and ruby-version. Standardization! :)
<manveru>
weird stuff though... it handles the .ruby-version like a .rvmrc it seems
<kentos>
maybe/hopefully .rvmrc is good at ignoring stuff it can't understand
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<dRbiG>
back to ruby - is there a way to make any process spawning commands inherit the STDIN, STDOUT, STDERR from the current context? in forked parts they seem to still use the initial STD*, even if I changed them inside the fork :(
<manveru>
never change the constants
<manveru>
change $std(in|out|err)
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<dRbiG>
Mon_Ouie: woudn't you happen to be able to point me to a file where /bin/less is actually executed? unless there's a way to search whole github repos
<manveru>
do i have Mon_Ouie on ignore?
<dRbiG>
manveru: ok, i'll try this, thanks
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<Mon_Ouie>
dRbiG: You mean the file where Pry calls less?
<dRbiG>
Mon_Ouie: exactly
<Mon_Ouie>
If so, lib/pry/pager.rb
<dRbiG>
thank you again
<Mon_Ouie>
manveru: There was another conversation prior to that on #pry :p
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<manveru>
oh, k :)
<dRbiG>
manveru: still, i have my local (in fork do ... end) $std* changed, but the executed bin opens the initial process $std*'s
<dRbiG>
time to look at pry's source then
<manveru>
yeah, you have to reopen them in there
<manveru>
oh wait, you don't use fork?
<manveru>
you want popen3 then
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<drbrain>
yes, or Process.spawn
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<manveru>
same thing, just harder to use
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<manveru>
i can't for my life remember all the options spawn takes...
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<manveru>
Open3.popen3(cmd, *argv){|si,so,se| }
<chris2>
the order is totally borked up too
<manveru>
that's easy :)
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<jtoy>
is there a more compact way to write this ? data.match(/and|but|when|/) ? data.match(/and|but|when/).size : 0
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<jtoy>
i thought I could use some of the special variables, but I couldn't find one that doesn't make me retype out the regex every time
<Mon_Ouie>
Use a variable to save the result. Additionally, that will avoid processing your data twice.
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<Mon_Ouie>
Well, there's $~ that contains the last match too
<jtoy>
Mon_Ouie: ah, yes, $~ was the one I was looking for
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<islander>
thanks emocakes and havenn
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<imperator>
data.scan(/and|but|when/).size
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<andrewvos>
emocakes: Where do you live?
<emocakes>
berlin
<emocakes>
and you seem to live in the amazon cloud according to your host ;P
<andrewvos>
emocakes: London
<Mon_Ouie>
imperator: The size of the match != the amount of matches found
<Mon_Ouie>
(or to be found)
<emocakes>
my gf is learning ruby andrewvos :)
<andrewvos>
emocakes: Good for her
<andrewvos>
emocakes: Wish mine would
<emocakes>
haha
<emocakes>
teach your gf sudo
<emocakes>
then she will do whatever you want
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<andrewvos>
Somehow, I don't think that would work.
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<jtoy>
how do I do a greedy version that matches all capital letters? "aASD dasdADSAD".match(/[A-Z]/).size
<jtoy>
that is only matching the firset
<jtoy>
first
<injekt>
jtoy: [A-Z]+
<injekt>
oh
<injekt>
wtf
<injekt>
jtoy: what do you want to do?
<jtoy>
injekt I just want to know how many capital letters are in the string
<Mon_Ouie>
Use String#count : count('A-Z')
<injekt>
^
<jtoy>
cool
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<imperator>
Mon_Ouie, was guessing that's what he wanted, since that will always return 1 won't it?
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<Mon_Ouie>
True, at least with the regexp he was using
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<tsundere_>
does anyone know of a way to make rest-client not accept gzip responses?
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<injekt>
tsundere_: check the headers?
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<tsundere_>
uhm, specifically it crashes on gzip responses so there's no header to check, i'd like to modify the Accept-Encoding header in the request packet but its not mentioned anywhere in the documentation.
<tsundere_>
i've gotten the same result from pretty much every alternative :/
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<andrewvos>
Empty file?
<andrewvos>
Try curl
<andrewvos>
tsundere_:
<tsundere_>
curl and wget work fine
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<tsundere_>
it seems like curl and wget should use the same zlib as ruby tho right?
<tsundere_>
so i don't get why zlib would crash in one instance but not the other.
<andrewvos>
Not sure
<tsundere_>
i guess i can try net::http
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<tsundere_>
that'd at least give me better access to the request header
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<tsundere_>
i'm pretty sure the server software i'm trying to access is a piece of crap, so i wouldn't be surprised if its gzipping weirdly.
<ryanv-raptor>
don't know if this was posted (lost my log), but if you use the hook "add_before_execution_proc" from the documentation you should be able to set the Accept-Encoding to identity for rest-client
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<rhalff>
Hi, I remember there was some software to connect wifi devices locally, anyone remembers the name, it's not freenet, that's something else.
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<rhalff>
I see a product in this, an independent wifi or whatever shortrange protocol thing, that interconnects your neighbourhood.
<drbrain>
rhalff: like mesh networking?
<rhalff>
After a few years, the device will prove to be almost of non-importance because the face-to-face social connections are regained again.
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<rhalff>
maybe that's the word drbrain, not sure, will google it.
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* rhalff
*still believes in the world and the people within it :-)*
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<rhalff>
@drbrain, yeah it's that, but I also realize controlling agencies want to peak, I don't care about that, because the social function is more important to me. I would like to create devices like that, but also realize the peek governments want to have. I want decentralized and also allow governments to peek, as long as we are all aware.
<drbrain>
rhalff: lots of communities build their own mesh networks
<rhalff>
hmz ok, I'm concerned with governments not knowing what is going on and creating unneeded suspicion, forgive my grammar... :-)
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<rhalff>
which is a logic result, we must not fight, but try to find an answer for.
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<rhalff>
I'm irritated with the fact we could create tight communities again, but it is not really happening. Apps to support this are so easy to make mainstream.
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<rhalff>
Probably normal people think in devices,not in software. The whole community can buy a device and communicate with eachother and everybody outside will have no reach, gov is still allowed to peak though.
<drbrain>
the hardware for good mesh networking can be expensive, though
<rhalff>
nah, really?
<rhalff>
how hard can it be.
<rhalff>
without video it will be very cheap
<drbrain>
you need at least a pair of high-power (100+mW) wireless NICs and appropriate antennas
<rhalff>
ok, so each neighbourhood a dedicated thingy (sorry I'm not a hardware guy)
<drbrain>
point-to-point antennas can be made inexpensively, but an omnidirectional antenna to serve a local area, not so much
<rhalff>
And if facism breaks out, just destroy those things (physically) :-)
<rhalff>
so with just some hacked wireless routers you cannot make a neighbourhood network?
<drbrain>
you can, but the range or coverage may be poor if you don't pick the right equipment
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<darix>
rhalff: freifunk.net are setting up mesh networks for spanning larger areas. but it seems the page is german only.
<drbrain>
rhalff: note that the cost isn't necessarily extreme, but it may be higher than you expect
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<drbrain>
say, $200-$500 per node
<rhalff>
Ok thanks
<drbrain>
the seattle wireless link above explains some of this
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<rhalff>
I have the feeling 95% of any neighbourhood would like to participate.
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<rhalff>
The ones who don't, need to be helped, the ones who systematically don't want to participate after a long period should have eyebrowse frowned upon. (something like that)
<darix>
2nd page is english
<rhalff>
hm ok, I also installed openwrt, which would be a very good base for this. To make it work it should just become a product with some flavour of openwrt. A thing you can buy, which only connects the surrounding neighbourhood. Yet I also recognize agencies should be able to listen to it, that's also physical security.
<rhalff>
We could get unsurpassed social tightness physically only know way back then and even better.
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<rhalff>
Ok great manveru, the only problem I see is agencies want to have some sort of control or at least a way to collect intelligence and I feel most people don't have much to hide, how to fit that, or should it come from internal neighbourhood gossip? *sorry, talking to much :p*
<manveru>
oO
<manveru>
why on earth would you give them intelligence?
<manveru>
do you record everything you talk with your friends and send it to the feds too? :)
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<rhalff>
nope, but I assume facebook, whatsapp, yahoo, msn, gtalk does?
<manveru>
is there a law that forces you to build a backdoor into encryption?
<rhalff>
And I understand the need for governments to know things, just trying to find a balance in which we can socially live.
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<manveru>
what they know, anybody can know
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<rhalff>
If I was a criminal and there was no control whatsoever, smartphones would be heaven. Submit to 911 fake stuff, follow the cars and hit and run where you target.