apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p374: http://ruby-lang.org (ruby-2.0.0-rc1) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<fiyarburst> is there a built in way to convert an integer to a 32-bit big endian?
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<fiyarburst> i'm not sure if a [x].pack('N') is what i want for some e.g. x=4
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<chekcmate> moinseeen
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* chekcmate loves LAN-cached updates :)
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<chekcmate> judofyr: may I annoy you for a sec?
<judofyr> chekcmate: sure
<chekcmate> how can I logically connect open() and write()? Because write() never shows on which file it's operating
<chekcmate> maybe you haz an idea?
<judofyr> chekcmate: the first parameter to write() is the file descriptor
<chekcmate> yes
<judofyr> which open() returns
<chekcmate> do you think it will always be looking that clearly? at the moment every open() follows a write(), so it's not hard to determine
<judofyr> so I would assume that open("test_file") = 3 means that the file is opened as file descriptor 3
<chekcmate> but I'm afraid to lose overview when it comes to my 28k files again heh
<chekcmate> yes, that's correct
<chekcmate> it's always the file descriptor # there
<chekcmate> so using this as a connection seems logically, aight?
<judofyr> yes
<chekcmate> alright, thanks :)
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<chekcmate> judofyr: damn, now it happened what I feared
<chekcmate> 1359450300.314392 write(1, "axi-cache is /usr/bin/axi-cache\n", 32) = 32 <0.000067> <== there is no file descriptor anywhere with "= 1"
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<judofyr> chekcmate: 1 = STDOUT
<judofyr> chekcmate: 2 = STDERR. 0 = STDIN
<chekcmate> oh ok
<chekcmate> so the "others" start at 3?
* chekcmate will google this...
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<judofyr> chekcmate: yup
<chekcmate> thought -1 was error
<yorickpeterse> Morning
<chekcmate> he yorick
<judofyr> chekcmate: or, I don't think it's guaranteed by spec. if you e.g. fork, then you can inherit file descriptors and new fds won't start at 3
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<judofyr> morning 'peterse
<chekcmate> yea, I do so
<chekcmate> judofyr: alright, now it makes a lot more sense.. thanks again
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<gnufied> morning guys
<chekcmate> moin gnufied
<rue> Morning
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<rue> judofyr: chekcmate: Right, new ones aren’t guaranteed to start with a certain int, so you’ll want to ensure you have the right one
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<chekcmate> rue: I'm still thinking on how to do this...
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<rue> I’m not sure what the issue is that you have? You get an fd (or an IO) when you open, and then you use that fd for operations on that IO :)
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<chekcmate> rue: yea, you can look at it by hand too... it gets annoying when doing this with 28k files
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<chekcmate> rue: http://pastie.org/5925825
<chekcmate> that's a very easy example, I wish it'd stay that way ^^
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<rue> That doesn’t really say anything about the relationship between the two. Do you write the same thing to all? Do you need a queue of fds?
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<chekcmate> how do I do this: line.include?("write(>=3") ?
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<judofyr> chekcmate: do what?
<chekcmate> include write(3; write(4; write(5; ...<= kinda like that?
<judofyr> ah
<judofyr> line =~ /write\((\d+)/; $1.to_i >= 3
<judofyr> chekcmate: ^
<chekcmate> ah great thanks :)
<chekcmate> judofyr: you always remind me of one of my favorite characters from the past: http://berserk.wikia.com/wiki/Judeau ^^
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<judofyr> chekcmate: :D
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<chekcmate> manly tears have been shed for that guy!
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<chekcmate> judofyr: tbh, I don't really get how to implement the second part you told me :/
<judofyr> chekcmate: hm? just do: if line =~ /write\((\d+)/ && $1.to_i >= 3
<chekcmate> $1 = d?
<chekcmate> haven't come across that one yet
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<judofyr> chekcmate: after you do a regexp match, $1, $2, $3, … will contain the capture groups
<chekcmate> ooooooh
<chekcmate> so that's how you can talk to them
<judofyr> chekcmate: e.g: if "hello 123 world" =~ /hello (\d+) (w.+)$/; $1 == "123"; $2 == "world"
<chekcmate> I only used ,1] until now e.g.
<judofyr> yeah, there's several ways to use them
<chekcmate> that's great!
<chekcmate> thanks a lot!
<judofyr> chekcmate: well, actually. in this case, you could also do: line[/write\(\d+)/, 1].to_i >= 3
<chekcmate> so the .to_i is refering only to \d
<judofyr> oops: line[/write\((\d+)/, 1].to_i >= 3
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<judofyr> because String#[Regexp, Integer] will fallback to "nil" if it doesn't match, and nil.to_i returns 0
<chekcmate> no, it refers to the first match
<chekcmate> right?
<judofyr> 1 refers to the first capture group
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<judofyr> line[/write\((\d+)/, 1] => "3"
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<chekcmate> if it's write(3...
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<judofyr> hm?
<chekcmate> erm.. if the input is write(3...) and you use your solution, the output is 3 - that's what you mean, yes?
<judofyr> that is correct
<chekcmate> okay, just making sure I understood it :)
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<judofyr> injekt: why no electricity? :(
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<chekcmate> does anyone know why I get a lot of "write(8, "\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0", 8) = 8" but can't find the file descriptor for this one (8) on any open()? (open("/root/.cache/dconf/user", O_RDWR|O_CREAT, 0600) = 9 (like here's #9)
<chekcmate> oh wait, forget it... forgot to look in a file...
<judofyr> chekcmate: what are you trying to do btw?
<chekcmate> umm... you weren't there when I told the guys about the 28k trace files I have to process?
<shachaf> chekcmate: Maybe it came from some other system call?
<shachaf> Lots of system calls can open fds.
<shachaf> I'd search for any line that ends in = 8
<chekcmate> shachaf: I found it already, it was in my RDONLY file...
<shachaf> Ah.
<chekcmate> thanks though :)
<shachaf> May your monoids be easy.
<chekcmate> judofyr: it's basically trying to get a list of files which are written by the system (mail order system), but never read again (obsolete files more or less)
<chekcmate> shachaf: hehh ^^
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<chekcmate> though it's more for me to learn than anything else, as far as I understood my boss :)
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<chekcmate> what's "\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0" anyways?
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<shachaf> Eight bytes, the first of which is a 1 and the rest of which are 0s?
<chekcmate> yea, but what for?
<shachaf> Possibly a 64-bit little-endian 1.
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<shachaf> It could be for ltos of things.
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<judofyr> chekcmate: who knows? it's just a binary format
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<chekcmate> just wondering, there are a lot of these lines when I trace gedit, heh
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<darix> chekcmate: if you just want file operations
<darix> strace -e trace=file
<chekcmate> I know, I had that before
<chekcmate> it would actually be cool to combine file and open + write only
<chekcmate> darix: got that atm: strace -D -ff -ttt -o #{tpath}/trace -e trace=open,write,unlink #{prog}
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<chekcmate> but that won't work... when doing trace=file, you automatically get open,write,exec,...
<chekcmate> but you won't get write() if not explicitly added to trace=file,write
<chekcmate> but but in my butt!
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<darix> uhm
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<chekcmate> darix: maybe you can answer me a question
<darix> about?
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<chekcmate> 1359466079.465803 open("test_file", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_APPEND, 0666) = 3 <== you can not determine clearly, which of the operations is done, right? (rdwr, creat, append)
<chekcmate> and in that open() command, no data is actually written, yes?
<chekcmate> in the following write(), using the same file descriptor #, data is written, correct?
<judofyr> chekcmate: correct
<judofyr> chekcmate: | means that all of the operations are used
<chekcmate> so I usually have like 10 billion open() commands, but only very few write()
<chekcmate> is this a 1 <-> 1 connection?
<chekcmate> open()<->write() ?
<judofyr> chekcmate: see `man 2 open` for the possible flags
<judofyr> chekcmate: well, you can open a file just to read it too
<darix> chekcmate: well you need to track the file descriptors returned and check to which file descriptors the write goes.
<darix> also yeah ... you need to track read too
<judofyr> chekcmate: but no. you can have multiple writes to the same file descriptor
<darix> maybe also mmap
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<chekcmate> multiple writes to one open is fine, the other way around would worry me though
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<chekcmate> darix: yup, that's what I'm trying to do ^^
<judofyr> chekcmate: if you're seeing many opens with a write, I would assume the file is only read, not written
<darix> there are more than just read,write you can do to a file descriptor
<darix> so
<darix> hm
<chekcmate> I know, a ton of other things
<darix> chekcmate: what is the problem behind this that you are trying to solve?
<chekcmate> but I concentrate on open-write for now
<chekcmate> finding obsolete files made by a very old system
<judofyr> chekcmate: in that case, I would't worry about the "lonely" open that is never written to. well, unless they have O_CREAT
<chekcmate> hm... I filter for O_RDONLY, so that should get me all the files not written to, when I first match that list with my write_files-list?
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<judofyr> chekcmate: files with O_RDWR can also be read
<judofyr> and they can be written to
<judofyr> :)
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<chekcmate> but only with WRITE, right?
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<chekcmate> that's the point
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<chekcmate> open("judo.file", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_APPEND, 0666) = 3 <--- this does not write
* chekcmate hopes he's right, hah
<judofyr> chekcmate: but it does create a file
<chekcmate> ah
<chekcmate> so there can be no write() on a file which does not exist basically?
<judofyr> "O_CREAT create file if it does not exist"
<judofyr> chekcmate: yes.
<judofyr> chekcmate: writes can only be done on file descriptors. and open() fails if the file doesn't exist
<chekcmate> yes
<chekcmate> 1359466079.464227 open("test_file", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_APPEND, 0666) = 3 1359466079.464340 write(3, "HI, THIS IS A TEST!", 19) = 19
<chekcmate> woops
<chekcmate> open("test_file", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_APPEND, 0666) = 3
<chekcmate> write(3, "HI, THIS IS A TEST!", 19) = 19
<chekcmate> those are 2 typical lines I get when testing it with a simple writer
<chekcmate> and it's all logical n stuff, totally understandable
<judofyr> but?
<chekcmate> that's only a simple writer were I can look at all files without getting eye-cancer
<judofyr> :)
<chekcmate> I'm worried I don't get the open() <-> write() connection together
<chekcmate> may I show you one more thing?
<judofyr> sure
<judofyr> chekcmate: also: you need to track close()
<chekcmate> ok, will do
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<chekcmate> these are two example lists I get, tracing "gnome-terminal" and exiting with "exit" (as you can see below)
<chekcmate> when I now match my write()-only file descr. with that O_RDWR list, many items on RDWR won't have a file descr.
<judofyr> probably because it only reads
<chekcmate> and that's the point: "probably"
<chekcmate> I think so too and I don't have any other explanation either, but that's a pretty daring statement...
<judofyr> there can be many reasons: they could use it to check if the file exists (remember, open() will fail if the file doesn't exists)
<chekcmate> perhaps filtering for O_RDWR is bad... maybe O_APPEND or something makes more sense
<judofyr> maybe they only open the files in case, but in this example they don't need to use them ´
<chekcmate> ah, so this can also be a method on monitoring if files exist
<chekcmate> judofyr: alright; I don't wanna bother you anymore, took too much of your time today already!
<chekcmate> thanks again ^^
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<judofyr> chekcmate: any time ;)
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<zzak> guten morgen
<chekcmate> juten tach
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<judofyr> morgen zzak
<imperator> bonjour
<zzak> new debugger api
<zzak> its still experimental
<zzak> check out the tests tho
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<banisterfiend> zzak: looks more like a fix to the previous one which was segv-city
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<zzak> theres a public api now
<zzak> see ext/-test-/debug
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<banisterfiend> zzak: i wonder if that's only there for the tests rather than for general access
<banisterfiend> looks like it could just be for tests
<banisterfiend> anyway, just a matter of copy/pasting that code into a C ext and sticking it in a gem
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<zzak> he already wrote a small C ext
<zzak> require '-test-/debug'
<judofyr> zzak: seems like an internal test
<zzak> judofyr: banisterfiend: its definitely just for testing / experiment, but im still excited to see it in ruby
<judofyr> :)
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<zzak> it gives us something to toy with
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<banisterfiend> zzak: well, u could have been playing with binding_of_caller already, which is pretty much the same thing ;)
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<injekt> judofyr: some guys killed the line in our neighbourhood :(
<judofyr> injekt: good job
<injekt> aye
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<zzak> banisterfiend: nice! im glad there's so many options
<zzak> it will be nice to have a good debugger in MRI, even if it's only an API for gem
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<banisterfiend> zzak: well, the debug API came about when i filed an issue saying that binding_of_caller no longer worked on 2.0 (due to symbol in visibility). http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/4407089
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<banisterfiend> so DebugInspector isn't an alternative to binding_of_caller, it's the successor, and hopefully a tiny bit more stable ;)
<banisterfiend> though that hasn't been the case up till now, but it looks like he may have ironed out the segfaults in his last commit
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<zzak> :D
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<zzak> we have to help test it and find any more issues
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<injekt> zzak: are you east coast?
<zzak> injekt: yessir
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<injekt> ah weird thought you were west coast
<drguell> son of beach
<injekt> have fun tomorrow and publish your slides online! :)
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<drguell> unsane people
<drguell> insane instead
<zzak> injekt: thank you! i am super nervous
<drguell> why?
<gnufied> zzak: what you are presenting on?
<injekt> zzak: you'll be fine, just have fun :)
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<gnufied> yeah. make fun. you will be fine
<gnufied> in order make fun of : PHP, Java and Rails
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<gnufied> :-)
<zzak> this is my first talk, and i didnt have as much time to prepare as i'd like
<zzak> gnufied: title is contributing to ruby
<workmad3> gnufied: you missed making fun of windows in between java and rails :P
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<gnufied> zzak: sounds awesome. post slides!
<gnufied> workmad3: :-)
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<drguell> you don't have mother
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<manveru> i.... don't!?
<manveru> omg, she lied to me all my life
<chekcmate> he just came to tell you this...
<chekcmate> sorry bro
<andrewvos> WHO WAS HE TALKING TO
<andrewvos> WE WILL NEVER KNOW
<chekcmate> whois 213.0.38.56 and you will somehow get your answer :)
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<injekt> I have Date#advance but need an antonym that doesn't suck, it's used like date.advance(days: 3, months: 1); any ideas?
<judofyr> injekt: #retreat
<judofyr> :P
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<chekcmate> is yorickpeterse still here?
<chekcmate> ohi injekt
<yorickpeterse> yes
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<chekcmate> you posted a method yesterday, improving mine
<chekcmate> i modified it and wanted to ask if its still ok as it is
<yorickpeterse> sure
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<injekt> judofyr: better than anything I had
<injekt> chekcmate: ohai
<chekcmate> :)
<yorickpeterse> `Dir[File.join("#{Dir.pwd}/trace", '/trace.*')].each` should be without `.each`
<yorickpeterse> Dir[] already yields the block for you
<judofyr> injekt: still sounds a bit silly
<injekt> judofyr: mine was 'behind' :/
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: it does? I thought it only was Dir.glob that yielded
<injekt> yeah Dir::[] doesn't yield
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<chekcmate> yorickpeterse: no, I get unexpected kDO
<injekt> I believe that's a syntax error anyway
<injekt> aye
<judofyr> injekt: pro-tip: http://tfd.com/advance (and look for words with border-left: 3px solid red; those are antonyms)
<injekt> judofyr: cool, i was here http://thesaurus.com/browse/advance?s=t
<yorickpeterse> judofyr: chekcmate eh might be
<yorickpeterse> I confuse them as well sometimes
<yorickpeterse> and `File.open(path, 'r').read.each` should be `File.open(path, 'r').each_line` probably
<chekcmate> heh, you replaced my Dir.glob - that's why I wanted to ask again ^^
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<chekcmate> ah ok
<injekt> yeah [] methods can't accept blocks
* chekcmate has to learn where to use each and each_line
<judofyr> chekcmate: even better: File.open(path, 'r') do |f| f.each_line do |line| end end
<yorickpeterse> Otherwise you'll probably end up iterating over the characters of the entire file
<yorickpeterse> instead of each line
<judofyr> chekcmate: that will automatically close the file properly too
<whitequark> String doesn't have #each
<whitequark> for precisely that reason: confusion
<injekt> each and each_line are synonyms
<injekt> in File
<judofyr> injekt: tfd.com ftw
<injekt> chekcmate: so dont worry about that
<injekt> judofyr: yeah seems much nicer
<chekcmate> @_@
<injekt> judofyr: also til about Date._parse and it sucks :D
<judofyr> injekt: :D
<injekt> been going through the C code in date_core
<injekt> seeing what I can leverage
<judofyr> injekt: auto-parsing dates sucks anyway. I actually prefer Perl's explicit DateTime parsers
<judofyr> injekt: 95% of the time you know the format of what you're parsing
<judofyr> and the 5% rest, you want something smarter than Date.parse
<judofyr> IMO
<chekcmate> judofyr: tracefiles.each do |file|; File.open(file, "r").each_line do |line| <== that's what I had before yorick helped me
<injekt> yeah I agree, but turns out I'm creating that smarter thing :(
<judofyr> injekt: :)
<injekt> You should use a block with File.open chekcmate
<injekt> not sure if that'll leave a dangling descriptor or not
<chekcmate> injekt: so no Dir[File.join...]?
<injekt> (using a block will close the file when your block is done)
<injekt> chekcmate: no File.open(..) { |f| f.each_line { ... } }
<chekcmate> but I have several files...
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<injekt> yeah I meant do that for each file
<chekcmate> ah ok, now I get it
<chekcmate> I have that :)
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<injekt> ah judofyr has already mentioned the block form of open
<injekt> heh
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<chekcmate> too many good answers here ^^
<judofyr> chekcmate: I'd say that Dir[…].each { } and Dir.glob { } are both acceptable choices. don't think the community prefers one style over the other.
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<injekt> yeah, I probably see Dir[] more though
<chekcmate> like there are many ways to rome, aight?
<judofyr> chekcmate: I like Dir[…].each because it's easy to refactor into Dir[…].map later
<injekt> chekcmate: ruby creates many
<judofyr> sure, but nobody uses Dir.entries
<injekt> because it sucks
<judofyr> some ways are more popular than others ;)
<judofyr> agree
<chekcmate> lol
<injekt> nobody cares about . and ..
<injekt> :D
<judofyr> chekcmate: so, [] and glob is fine. stay away from .entries ;)
<judofyr> that should lead you to rome in one piece
<injekt> then you have to fight caesar
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<injekt> judofyr: Date#recede
<injekt> "To move back or away from a limit, point, or mark"
<injekt> maybe :/
<injekt> decrease
<injekt> na
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* zzak feels bad for . and ..
<injekt> do not pity them!
<injekt> ok I'm just gonna use ragel for this crap
<judofyr> injekt: ooo. cool.
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<judofyr> injekt: Ragel 6 is coming btw
<injekt> I have a feeling it's going to hurt my head
<injekt> I've hardly any experience with it
<chekcmate> it could also hurt your butt, keep that in mind!
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<injekt> it looks like ruby parses all their date stuff with regexp
<injekt> home_run uses ragel
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<injekt> and regexp
<injekt> only about ~6k lines of c
<injekt> this should be a walk in the park
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<chekcmate> I need someone like injekt in my basement... >_>
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<injekt> judofyr: wait version 6? im using v 6.7
<judofyr> injekt: hm. I think I mean Ragel 7
<injekt> :)
<judofyr> yeah
<judofyr> "I'm closing in on a reference code generator for Ragel 7. This major version of Ragel has a completely rewritten "condition" implementation."
<injekt> ah cool
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<injekt> wow that generated ruby is.. pretty
<whitequark> injekt: huh?
<whitequark> we're talking about ragel right?
<injekt> yes
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<whitequark> ragel 6's ruby codegen is a piece of crap
<injekt> I forgot to press my sarcasm button, I guess it wasn't obvious
<whitequark> oh.
<whitequark> I thought that 7 has had significant improvements.
<injekt> I'm still using 6 too
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<injekt> well I planned on doing this for speed but I'm not sure it's going to make too much difference
<whitequark> injekt: "this" as in ?
<judofyr> whitequark: Date time parsing ´
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<whitequark> expect the ragel parser be 2-3 times slower after some optimization
<injekt> I'm writing a replacement for Chronic, and have been for months, I have rewrites using different implementations
<whitequark> that's what I had after rewriting RP's lexer
<whitequark> I've also just got an idea of how to make it substantially faster
<judofyr> whitequark: you can always compile it to a C extension though
<whitequark> judofyr: not realistically
<judofyr> whitequark: huh? oh, you mean for your usecase?
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<judofyr> or generally?
<whitequark> judofyr: for RP. it'd require tons of stuff I'd rather not deal with
<whitequark> also, jruby.
<judofyr> anyway gotta go
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<injekt> ta-ra
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<whitequark> i wanna write an SQL RDBMS in ruby
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<flujan> hello guys. Which is the difference between $stdin STDIN and @stdin?
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<toretore> the first two exist, the third doesn't
<flujan> toretore: lol… so between the two that exists? Any difference?
<toretore> $stdin.object_id == STDIN.object_id
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<injekt> you can reassign $stdin then assign it back to STDIN
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<injekt> although you can just use reopen anyway so meh
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<whitequark> it is expected that $stdin will be used for temporary redirection of standard streams
<whitequark> like if you want to capture the output to StringIO
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<whitequark> but STDIN shouldn't be changed (it's a constant after all), and could only be reopened
<whitequark> which means that 1) you can only hijack it with an OS file descriptor
<whitequark> 2) the changes will be inherited by the process you spawn
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<bluepojo> Anyone spare an opinion? https://gh.riotgames.com/gist/710
<bluepojo> oops
<bluepojo> wrong url
<bluepojo> :D
<mistym> bluepojo: Heh, do you work at Riot?
<bluepojo> hah yes
<bluepojo> and we have internal GitHub
<bluepojo> which looks the same
<mistym> Cool!
<bluepojo> so I forget sometimes >_>
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<mistym> So I have no idea what your use case is, but I'm always in favour of symbol keys ;)
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<bluepojo> fair enough :)
<reactormonk> bluepojo, are you building a dom here?
<bluepojo> nah, these are for Chef attributes
<bluepojo> which tend to be deeply nested
<reactormonk> ouch
<bluepojo> and it's common practice to represent them as dot separated strings
<bluepojo> so I need a method to break them up into the real hash
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<reactormonk> bluepojo, well, what does chef take as keys? symbols or strings?
<bluepojo> both
<bluepojo> hah
<reactormonk> bluepojo, nah, that api is too subtle. Choose one and return it in either case.
<bluepojo> fair enough
<reactormonk> bluepojo, I'd choose symbols.
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<reactormonk> and a string as input, since you operate on that one.
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<manveru> [2] pry(main)> 'a.b.c'.split('.').inject(h = {}){|s,v| s[v] = {} }; h
<manveru> => {"a"=>{"b"=>{"c"=>{}}}}
<manveru> :)
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<whitequark> manveru: each_with_object, dammit
<manveru> nope
<whitequark> inject = reduce.
<manveru> try it with each_with_object
<manveru> i know, and reduce is what you need for this
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<whitequark> ooh right
<manveru> it doesn't reuse the same object, it goes deeper
<whitequark> sorry then
<manveru> np
<reactormonk> optionally {}.tap{|h| 'a.b.c'.split('.').reduce(h){|s,v| s[v] = {} } }
<whitequark> but still it's not a good code IMO
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<whitequark> because, as you've just seen, it is quite unclear what the actual purpose is.
<whitequark> whatever
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<reactormonk> whitequark, that's what comments are for
<andrewvos> noooo
<injekt> tap makes me want to vomit
<andrewvos> yar
<whitequark> reactormonk: I find it that when I assume that people don't read comments, my code gets way better
<whitequark> and it's not that I'm that far from truth.
<manveru> [6] pry(main)> h = n = {}; 'a.b.c'.split('.').each{|s| n[s] = (n = {}) }; h
<andrewvos> whitequark: I am liking you more and more every day.
<manveru> => {"a"=>{"b"=>{"c"=>{}}}}
<manveru> is that clearer? :P
<whitequark> manveru: the unusual constructs force you to pay attention. hence, in a certian way, yes.
<whitequark> I might've written that in any of these ways, to be sincere
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<whitequark> andrewvos: me, today, earlier; < whitequark> I find it that every language designer should have his #0 mantra as follows: "People are lazy and ignorant."
<mistym> whitequark: Very true.
<whitequark> eg did you know that 1 << 32 // => 1 in C?
<whitequark> oh I forgot to say that it's only 1 on x86
<whitequark> and on powerpc it'd be 0.
<pabs> i think that's undefined in C
<whitequark> (assuming 32-bit int, of course.)
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<whitequark> pabs: indeed, and that's broken.
<whitequark> the #1 mantra is: "Correctness > Speed."
<pabs> as in, you may get 1 on a 32-bit architecture, but that's architecture, compiler, and optimization dependent
<whitequark> which isn't to say that there shouldn't be any fast, unsafe operations. it's just that they should not be the default ones.
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<manveru> so things that nobody can safely use get optimized the best? :)
<whitequark> manveru: oh exactly
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<whitequark> abs(-2147483648) = -2147483648, etc.
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<manveru> yeah...
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<manveru> i get pissed at go because it doesn't have any way to know whether overflow/underflow happened
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<whitequark> also: *((int*)NULL) is a no-op
<manveru> even though most cpus i know put that into a register
<whitequark> or, to be precise, no-op on -O3 and a trap on -O0, but you still can't rely on any of that
<whitequark> manveru: every single one does
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<whitequark> that's how you construct, err, higher-order arithmetics.
<manveru> so either i have to put crazy checks all over the place, or use silly bignum :|
<whitequark> null pointer dereference is not defined to access the memory, nor is it defined to not access it, in quite an orwellian manner
<manveru> lol
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<whitequark> also, if you have UB in your program somewhere, the behavior of the program is undefined not only *after* the UB gets executed, but also the whole time *before* it
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<whitequark> I find it that most, if not all C programs, can be compiled to int main() { return 0; } and the compiler will still be standards-compliant.
<whitequark> technically.
<whitequark> also: division by zero is undefined. it's not a trap on powerpc.
<whitequark> surprise!
<whitequark> (or ARM, or...)
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<whitequark> also: signed integer underflow/overflow is undefined, for the sole reason of leaving the possibility to compile the program for non-2's-complement system
<manveru> can't say i even wanted to know that much about C
<whitequark> I understand why this could be in C89 (hardly, but understand). but C99 still has it. C11 still does.
<whitequark> why, people?! why?!
<whitequark> I mean, I don't think non-2's-complement system even exist anymore in the powered-up silicon
<manveru> wasn't there some project to make a subset of C provable?
<manveru> i think they wanted to build an OS on it
<whitequark> manveru: tons of it. CompCert I think, or Coq can be used in that way
<whitequark> *them
<manveru> but nobody uses that?
<whitequark> manveru: the problem is, you cannot build an OS without primitives which are truly, inherently unsafe
<whitequark> even all performance stuff apart
<whitequark> there's a subset of Haskell for systems programming, called Habit
<whitequark> (memory monads flying spaghetti monster kill me now)
<manveru> well, yeah, hardware failure and cosmic rays and stuff
<whitequark> no
<whitequark> way simpler stuff like registers and DMA
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<whitequark> hardware failure cannot be reasoned about at all. just hardware can be reasoned about, but that effectively includes verilog models of all of your hardware in your system
<whitequark> I'm fairly sure that even if you can write a theorem prover which can reason about that, it will take literally years on a very big cluster to derive something sensible from it
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<manveru> bbl
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<yorickpeterse> It's 2013 and benchmarking Rack apps (or Ruby apps in general) is still a cunt
<yorickpeterse> as in, benchmarking how long method X takes to do Y
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<lianj> yorickpeterse: so bad?
<yorickpeterse> It's not bad but both ruby-prof and perftools give hard-to-grok output
<yorickpeterse> I also have no idea how to benchmark N iterations in ruby-prof, something perftools can do
<yorickpeterse> (instead of just 1)
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: I've yet to see a profiler with easy to grok output.
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<yorickpeterse> well, it helps somewhat that ruby-prof supports cachegrind
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<whitequark> perftools.rb too
<yorickpeterse> oh?
<whitequark> iirc
<yorickpeterse> either way, the output of perftools was more useless than what ruby-prof gave me
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: strange. I found that the opposite holds true.
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<yorickpeterse> mind you I greatly prefer cachegrind output over the other stuff perftools/ruby-prof spit out
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<yorickpeterse> Function: <cycle_1>
<yorickpeterse> fucking GC
<whitequark> --callgrind, etc.
<whitequark> also --text is the most convenient for me
<yorickpeterse> hm
<whitequark> even better than kcachegrind
<yorickpeterse> I wonder if those garbage collector patches of ruby-prof work with 1.9.3
<whitequark> worked fine for me
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, don't feel like re-compiling Ruby tonight so that has to wait
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<yorickpeterse> for now: op success. Code works again and is reasonably faster
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: is it roflscale yet?
<yorickpeterse> lol no
<yorickpeterse> You need node.js for that
<whitequark> then go rewrite
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<tenderlove> ged: you around?
<tenderlove> I'm trying to get the tests running for the pg gem, but it keeps failing
<tenderlove> running the command on it's own gives me this: https://gist.github.com/4668127
<tenderlove> creating template1 database in /Users/aaron/hg/ruby-pg/tmp_test_specs/data/base/1 ... FATAL: could not create shared memory segment: Cannot allocate memory
<tenderlove> o_O
<yorickpeterse> clearly the solution is to get more RAM
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<tenderlove> got it
<yorickpeterse> huh? How much shared memory is it even using?
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<yorickpeterse> There we go, bugs fixed, job well done
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<zenspider> anyone here know google visualization api well?
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