<whitequark>
followed by AI winter, round 2, I guess
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<larsc>
you know the saying "In 10 years there will be a breakthrough in AI development"
<whitequark>
"In 50 years we'll have cold fusion"
<whitequark>
good chance it's just another acquihire for google. analytics, that's how they call AI that actually works
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<larsc>
well, they are supposed to work for Ray Kurzweil at google
<whitequark>
"Kurzweil claims to have forecast the demise of the Soviet Union due to new technologies such as cellular phones and fax machines disempowering authoritarian governments by removing state control over the flow of information"
<whitequark>
cute.
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<larsc>
he probably also did also forecast a lot of other things that did not happen
<larsc>
"The best way to have good ideas is to have many ideas@
<whitequark>
the statement above is false as well
<whitequark>
I mean, USSR didn't fall due to that reason, and GCF can be quite effective as well
<larsc>
right
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<whitequark>
ugh, ebay doesn't actually notify when the seller responds to a case, wtf
<whitequark>
they responded at 24th and I missed it :/
<whitequark>
hm, actually it does, the email just got lost.
<whitequark>
wtf
<whitequark>
".Friend,this item is the top-quality. So during two years warranty time, mostly it will not have any problem. If it has the problem, we will send you the replacement to replace it. Mostly it will be resolved."
<whitequark>
I like their use of "mostly"
<whitequark>
at least it's honest
<whitequark>
how are cylindrical connectors with 2, 4, ... pins inside called?
<whitequark>
they look like DIN, but are much bigger
<whitequark>
roh: actually... searching "chinese plug" on ebay worked :D
<roh>
the old version (no rpm meter, no belts on the motors)
<roh>
we got it already cnc converted, with ball spindles and big ass steppers directly mounted where the handwheels were (those moved out by the motor length)
<roh>
the controller was delivered with a mach3 demo, but we use linuxcnc
<roh>
recirculating ball screw
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<apelete>
wpwrak: about soldering wire, better to use lead free or is lead solder ok ?
<apelete>
wpwrak: was going for lead solder before reading that it is prohibited in the EU, but it seems lead free generally melts at higher temperatures
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<CYB3R>
there are many opinions about soldering wire
<CYB3R>
I think that 63/37 is the best
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<whitequark>
apelete: lead free is shit
<whitequark>
really, the only reason people use lead free is because of ridiculously strict RoHS restrictions, if you want good soldering, use leaded
<whitequark>
*especially* for prototypes and such
<whitequark>
you will only reach harmful levels if you do leaded soldering 24/7 for years
<apelete>
whitequark: haha, was wondering how a higher melting point temperature could be a good thing in my case anyway, now it's clear :)
<apelete>
will look for a good Sn/Pb solder wire then
<whitequark>
63/37 is pretty much standard
<whitequark>
I guess telling you to not use russian solder would be excessive :p
<apelete>
only found 60/40 so far
<whitequark>
but, really, don't be too greedy on it. I have ASAHI solder, with flux inside, it's quite great
<whitequark>
60/40 is same thing
<apelete>
okay, will go for a reasonably priced 60/40, not too cheap though (went the cheap way in the past, painful memory)
<apelete>
thanks
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<wpwrak>
60/40 != 63/37 !
<whitequark>
wpwrak: is there much difference?
<whitequark>
(bbiab)
<wpwrak>
in 63/37 all components melt at the same time. in 60/40 they melt at different temperatures, so you have a distinguishable "pasty" stage
<wpwrak>
if you need that, e.g., to intentionally make solder bridges, get 60/40. if you don't need that, i.e., because solder bridges are exactly what you don't want to see, get 63/37.
<wpwrak>
apelete: regarding lead-free, i'd say: if you plan to sell it, use lead-free. else, use leaded
<wpwrak>
lead-free is harder to work with. it's doable but you have to work at higher power levels, increasing the risk of doing damage.
<wpwrak>
whitequark: the difference isn't huge, but noticeable
<wpwrak>
apelete: and don't forget to get flux :) flux is the smt-solderer's best friend
<apelete>
wpwrak: thanks for the details. I don't plan on doing a solder bridge, I find the pad too small anyway. let's see if I can find 63/37
<whitequark>
wpwrak: oooooh, that explains some things
<whitequark>
I should get some eutectic solder then
<wpwrak>
yup :)
<whitequark>
never thought the 3% difference was significant, fool me!
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<wpwrak>
metallurgy is a direct descendent of alchemy ;-)
<wpwrak>
apelete: another parameter is the thickness of the solder wire. if you have a choice, for smt, thin is preferable since it makes it easier to get a small quantity.(thin: < 0.7 mm)
<wpwrak>
nicksydney: nice. might have things worth stealing :)
<nicksydney>
not steal..borrow :)
<larsc>
I only need three things for smd soldering: flux, flux and flux ;)
<wpwrak>
apelete: for the flux, you get three basic types: RA, water-soluble, and no-clean. RA is the most vigorous but it's very sticky and a pain to remove from the pcb. (and you must remove it since it attacks metals)
<whitequark>
there's also RMA, isn't it?
<wpwrak>
apelete: water soluble is less powerful but also less sticky. i find it a good compromise. "water soluble" means "hot demineralized water under high pressure". so it's not quite as easy to get rid of at it may sound, but it's feasible. i use a cheap ultrasonic cleaner for that.
<wpwrak>
whitequark: yeah, in think RMA and RA are in the sama ballpark. not even sure what i had.
<whitequark>
wpwrak: AFAIK RMA does not need to be cleaned
<whitequark>
(plus I never cleaned it and I have some >5yr old boards which are not corroded little bit)
<wpwrak>
apelete: "no clean" promises that you don't need to clean up but i'd be careful with such statements. it's the weakest of the three and i found that the one i tried didn't help enough with the soldering.
<wpwrak>
whitequark: RMA is still aggressive. the only one you're supposed to be able to leave on the board is "no clean".
<apelete>
wpwrak: shouldn't the flux be embedded into the solder wire already ?
<wpwrak>
apelete: there is a little bit there but it's not enough for smt
<whitequark>
wpwrak: hm, " RMA flux is formulated to result in a residue which is not significantly corrosive, with cleaning being preferred but optional."
<whitequark>
I guess so
<wpwrak>
whitequark: also, the flux will happily act as a conductor. the resistance is typically of a few dozen kOhms, so you may not notice it unless you work with low currents. but when you notice it, it will be very irritating :)
<wpwrak>
besides, a board full of flux is just dirty :)
<whitequark>
yeah
<wpwrak>
i clean the board also to be able to inspect things. if all is full of flux you see nothing.
<apelete>
wpwrak: damn, flux seems to be a field of its own, and I wasn't even planning on getting any initially (didn't know the little amount of flux in the solder wire wasn't enough)
<apelete>
it seems there was a *lot* of things I was doing wrong when I soldered the serial line on the nanonote (tried many times before having a good joint back then)
<whitequark>
I've always had moderate to good success with lots of RMA
<whitequark>
and a truly epic failure with a water-soluble flux called TT
<whitequark>
claimed to be non-conductive
<whitequark>
it is actually neither water-soluble nor non-conductive, which provided for some funny results and weeks of headscratching
<whitequark>
seriously, you get a head-start just by virtue of not having access to solders and fluxes made in russia
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<wpwrak>
;-))
<wpwrak>
sometimes, less can indeed be more :)
<whitequark>
solders, fluxes, ICs, connectors (they STILL sell about 500 SKUs of bakelite connectors), anything made of plastic, etc
<whitequark>
old tools however can be seriously great. my father's caliper was amazing
<wpwrak>
heh :) old tools are often much better than new ones
<whitequark>
iirc cost him ~40 roubles in USSR times. a book would cost, say, 1.5
<whitequark>
engineer's wage would be ~150
<whitequark>
a scope I had (C1-68) was however not so amazing
<whitequark>
its weight in kgs was actually higher than bandwidth in mhz
<whitequark>
... about 10kg/mhz actually
<wpwrak>
a 10 MHz scope ? nice ! ;-)
<whitequark>
if only! 1mhz
<whitequark>
was quite a feat to transport it across moscow with my bare hands and public transport
<whitequark>
because it was quite huge and also had a CRT. had to take care not to shatter that.
<wpwrak>
ah, crt not firmly attached ? :)
<wpwrak>
or was it difficult because of the ice and snow ?
<wpwrak>
and the erratic movements of the horse carts ...
<whitequark>
firmly, actually I thought it was too rigidly attached -> easy to shatter with sudden movements
<whitequark>
yeah, the whole ice and snow deal, too
<wpwrak>
(shatter) hmm, so no case, just the tube ?
<whitequark>
no, it has a case
<wpwrak>
probably made of hardened russian undestructium
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* dos1
received his NanoNote today :)
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<wpwrak>
welcome to the club ! :)
<ysionneau>
:)
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<kristianpaul>
:)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd love to learn how sharism(?) managed to build the cases and mech parts for NN
<DocScrutinizer05>
then otoh checking out status of sharism and NN today, I maybe don't need to know
<DocScrutinizer05>
except for learning what to NOT do
<DocScrutinizer05>
it all feels like trying to sell milk from customer's "own" known named cow to customer in *supermarket*, packed into a bottle of customer's design. Of course at a price competitive to standard milk
<dos1>
DocScrutinizer05: wasn't NN based on some chinese notebook/calendar/mp3 player, reusing its case and overall design?
<DocScrutinizer05>
nfc
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: you're about right about the price calculation :)
* dos1
started dgClock and feels like a newbie who just launched vim
<wpwrak>
and yes, the design is licensed. it's a modification of a dictionary. they made a number of changes, but the basic design already existed.
<dos1>
damn it
<wpwrak>
dos1: broke it already ?
<dos1>
I was sure that I already tried every key and lots of different key combinations in order to find that one which quits that app with no success
<dos1>
so I downloaded the sources of dgClock and looked how to quit
<dos1>
turned out it was escape button *facepalm*
<dos1>
I was like "no way", presses esc, and then like "no way" again :D
<dos1>
actually it's the second time I overlooked esc button when trying to quit from some app... it's in a quite strange place
<dos1>
anyway, I thought it was cool even with stock rootfs
<DocScrutinizer05>
even worse: while it originally been invented for exactly this purpose ( dict "escape"), it is not even existing on e.g. N900. And generally not used that way in DOS and Linux
<dos1>
just reflashed... and boy, so many awesome stuff there
<dos1>
and it even (mostly) works! :D
<DocScrutinizer05>
originally there been other useful keys like "help" that now is "F1"...
<DocScrutinizer05>
"prtscreen" which is usually used for dunnowhat but not for printing a screen copy
<DocScrutinizer05>
"break" which is generally ignored nowadays, and if it's not then it's a lame hotkey for ^C
<DocScrutinizer05>
same with "pause" and ^S
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<wpwrak>
"can you please F1 me with this ?"
<wpwrak>
i think Pause is pretty much meant to be like ^S
<wpwrak>
and what's more worrying are all the "multimedia" keys they're putting on keyboards nowadays. as if they weren't big enough already.
<wpwrak>
and even small keyboards get an obligatory row of dedicated function keys. even the ben has that madness !
<DocScrutinizer05>
right. sorry I'm supposed to appreciate that I'm not well and shouldn't touch any IT. Of course "Pause" is ^S
<DocScrutinizer05>
funny enough it's sometimes also ^Q
<wpwrak>
i think it's a toggle
<wpwrak>
got a flu ?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, that's what it's technically meant to be, emulated by sending ^Q when ^S-mode active, and ^S when no ^S-mode active
<DocScrutinizer05>
no, severe burnout all levels
<wpwrak>
uh uh. then you should perhaps have a beer and take a nap.
<DocScrutinizer05>
saw it coming, for like 6 months now
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm afraid one beer and one nap will not do anything
<wpwrak>
well, it'll be a start :)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod: pending since errr Thursday
<DocScrutinizer05>
the beer, not the nap
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<DocScrutinizer05>
actually i had 11h of nap last night, feels like being sick
<wpwrak>
beer FOUR days overdue ?!? oh dear. someone please call an ambulance !
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually not only the beer but also the shower and leaving flat
<DocScrutinizer05>
I prolly shouldn't elaborate on all that
<DocScrutinizer05>
I should shut down that friggin PC and take care to restore some normality to about every other aspect of my life. Internet is the only domain that actually doesn't need such care yet
<wpwrak>
yeah, we'll try to keep it running while you have your shower and your beer :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
funny side effect: you can't catch a flu when you live in quarantine
<wpwrak>
naw, it somehow finds you anyway
<wpwrak>
plus, your immune system gets weaker that way
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<apelete>
larsc: are you there ?
<larsc>
yes
<apelete>
hi
<apelete>
I've been trying to figure out what was wrong with the dma code in jz4740_mmc, to no avail
<DocScrutinizer05>
Low-power SoC wireless application soperating in the 315/433/868/915 MH zISM/SRD bands
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<DocScrutinizer05>
((<larsc> invalidate means you tell the cpu that the data in the cache is outdated)) something some CPUs do on a hw level by snooping on RAM addr/ctrl-lines to detect writes to addresses that are in dcache
<DocScrutinizer05>
flush is particularly important when you do mem-mapped IO
<DocScrutinizer05>
...or are working on a multicore platform
<DocScrutinizer05>
...for data that's supposed to get transferred from one CPU to the other, when both CPUs don't use same dcache
<DocScrutinizer05>
ARM has a special "mailbox" IP for that, basically a hw FIFO that creates some datalink between any arbitrary 2 cores on SoC
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<DocScrutinizer05>
PL320 PrimeCell
<DocScrutinizer05>
on some modem+AP SoC the mailbox is used to transfer addr of a RAM buffer from sender to receiver CPU. In that case you need to make sure the buffer got flushed from dcache before you hand it over to the desination CPU
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<DocScrutinizer05>
similar considerations apply to USB and HSI and generally any high speed DMA based IO interfaces
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: TI have quite a lot of CCxxxx chips with similar characteristics. the sub-GHz bands have long range and are usually not as crowded as 2.4 GHz but they have the disadvantage of being more restricted and having limited geographical reach
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah. Anyway that chip looks quite nice for the requirement spec "general purpose 433/868MHz radio, for all sorts of home automation, garage door openers, stereo headphones, etc"
<DocScrutinizer05>
X10 is 433MHz?
<apelete>
wpwrak: couldn't find 63/37 solder wire in EU, it seems they only sell 60/40 around here