<DocScrutinizer05>
we had similar incidents here, for our football stadium floodlight
<DocScrutinizer05>
My dad was responsible for the technical aspects, and once the lights were out of order for >60min since a rabbit got between the contacts just like that mouse
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm not sure though if that switches were already so called "low voltage" aka 4kV or 15kV
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh, "low voltage" is up to 1kV only, above it's already "middle voltage"
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<wpwrak>
nice. you can still see the fur pattern :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's indeed weird
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<wpwrak>
it would be even more impressive if you could also distinguish feet, tail, head, ... and of course the bulging eyes :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
UPS are evil
<wpwrak>
yeah, pulling the plug won't save you
<DocScrutinizer05>
my personal statistics suggest that UPS cause 10 times more blackouts than they avoid. Thanks to mice, broken relays, defect batteries or electronc defects
<wpwrak>
only had dead batteries so far. but yes, once the battery goes bad, the UPS makes small problems worse.
<whitequark>
why do UPS batteries tend to inexplicably and quetly die all the time?
<whitequark>
I thought Pb batteries really like being continuously recharged with tiny current
<DocScrutinizer05>
because the UPS designers have no real clue about treating batteries nicely
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually it seems to me they simply don't care
<wpwrak>
or maybe they do care - about making money with replacement batteries
<DocScrutinizer05>
but that's for tiny UPS only
<DocScrutinizer05>
the size like that one with the mouse is usually fine with batteries for 10..20 years
<DocScrutinizer05>
when a whole datacenter goes down, you can bet on "UPS defect"
<DocScrutinizer05>
which doesn't mean much since when the UPS wasn't defect, the DC wouldn't go sown
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<DocScrutinizer05>
down even
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<nicksydney>
wpwrak: i think you can enter competition for the MDO3000
<nicksydney>
who knows you can win :)
<wpwrak>
you never win in this sort of things ....
<wpwrak>
besides, it wouldn't pass customs
<wpwrak>
it's about time someone makes a nice open hardware scope and put an end to the "option" mania. there's a clear trend towards marketing very nice devices but selling crippled junk that you have to "unlock" with option packages that cost you more than the original device
<nicksydney>
open hardware scope...hmmm......using FPGA ?
<wpwrak>
you can't build a non-toy scope without an fpga :)
<wpwrak>
100 MSa/s is still very low. (suitable for signals up to around 10 MHz, maybe a bit higher but not a lot). they also have an fpga, not a cpld. so they might even be able to do a bit of protocol decoding.
<whitequark>
wpwrak: I wonder, how do you determine which MSa/s value corresponds to which MHz?
<whitequark>
won't you need 2x MSa/s by Nyquist theorem/
<whitequark>
*?
<wpwrak>
depending on a pc for processing is a major bottleneck, though. you generally can't get the data through fast enough. that's why integrating the display in the scope makes sense - direct path between display and sample memory
<wpwrak>
whitequark: correct. but that's a sine wave under ideal conditions. there must be another limitation in there, e.g., about phase and phase drift.
<wpwrak>
e.g., if i give you a series of all the zero crossings, nyquist would be happy, but you'd still have a hard time reconstructing the signal :)
<wpwrak>
so for reconstruction you need more. as a rule of thumb scope manufacturers recommend a sample rate that's 10-12x signal bandwidth
<wpwrak>
(for real-time sampling. if you use equivalent time, then things change)
<wpwrak>
"In practice, infinite sequences," ... and " must be strictly less than ½ the sample rate"
<wpwrak>
that was "B must ..."
<whitequark>
wpwrak: oooooh sine wave
<wpwrak>
actually, i could imagine that it may work with any not too crazy waveform you agree on
<wpwrak>
but don't forget that it has to be infinite
<wpwrak>
so it's similar to equivalent-time sampling
<wpwrak>
only that the latter has a trigger while nyquist doesn't need that
<wpwrak>
of course, if you had to tell your scope what waveform you expect to see, that's kinda cheating ;-)
<whitequark>
haha
<whitequark>
wpwrak: though: any waveform is a bunch of sine waves ;)
<whitequark>
in fact, *you* are a bunch of sine waves
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<wpwrak>
i prefer to think of myself as a bunch of particles with an occasional identity crisis
<whitequark>
:D
<whitequark>
I recently learned that in modern physics there's no more notion of particle/wave duality, which, in fact, was always an 'educational' construct
<whitequark>
all elementary, um, things are always treated as waves, period.
<whitequark>
obviously this isn't physics that changed, just the way it is taught. but still interesting.
<wpwrak>
guess it's the same as meters/inch. eventually you get tired of carrying around the one you don't like anyway. so there goes the 0.0197" QFN pitch ...
<whitequark>
yep. it was more confusing to keep it around.
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<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: you'll like this, I've just seen an ad for a smartphone with 3 sim cards
<whitequark>
explay someshit
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, 3SIM isn't new
<whitequark>
ah
<DocScrutinizer05>
even 4 SIM seen occasionally. But no particular use in that automated SIM swapper
<wpwrak>
the world need smartphones with a mechanical sim card changer. like the cd changers of old
<DocScrutinizer05>
exactly like that
<DocScrutinizer05>
dual-standby is the thing we want
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I haven't seen triple-standby yet
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<whitequark>
ahh
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually that concept pretty soonish runs into technical limits
<wpwrak>
naw, you want "all out" and "insert by gps location / fake identity". also set the IMEI accordingly :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
complete nonsesne
<wpwrak>
give the nsa something to chew on :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
authorities and carriers have no difficulties whatsoever to track that IMEI/SIM change
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<wpwrak>
how ? if you change location and keep very low duty cycles ?
<whitequark>
yep, they even readily give that to my bank
<DocScrutinizer05>
one IMEI vanishing and a new one appearing same time and same location? Dang, what the heck might THAT be???
<whitequark>
each time I change SIM they get aroused and send me SMSs
<whitequark>
if I dare to get a new SIM for same number I'm locked out of account
<whitequark>
and I don't remember signing anything that gives them this privilege...
<whitequark>
ugh
<whitequark>
OR reading about that feature at all
<wpwrak>
aroused bankers. now there's an ugly thought
<wpwrak>
reminds me of that 80es (?) song "lawyers in love". that also had a certain creepiness to it.
* DocScrutinizer05
feels nausea
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<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, I guess they are running a SIM app to authenticate you against the bank account
<DocScrutinizer05>
that SIM app may send IMSI, IMEI, phone number, whatnot else
<whitequark>
no, see, the only thing I did is I gave bank my number
<whitequark>
well, maybe they can remotely install something on SIM only given number. that makes it even worse
<DocScrutinizer05>
you're doing no eTAN or mobile banking or whatever?
<whitequark>
nope
<whitequark>
never heard of
<whitequark>
eTAN?
<DocScrutinizer05>
bank sends TAN per SMS
<DocScrutinizer05>
or wasit iTAN?
<DocScrutinizer05>
mTAN?
<whitequark>
no clue
<DocScrutinizer05>
first there been TAN, like 100 one time passwords on a paper they sent to you. Then they added index numbers to that and asked for TAN #42
<DocScrutinizer05>
then they came up with TAN via SMS
<whitequark>
well yes, they do send me confirmation code for transactions to that phone
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<DocScrutinizer05>
no surprise your bank is taking measures to make sure you are the legal owner of that SIM
<DocScrutinizer05>
however they do it. Prolly by cooperation with your carrier
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't think bank can send SIM applications right away
<DocScrutinizer05>
but SIMs *can* get updated OTA, no news in that
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<DocScrutinizer05>
and your carrier might even diclose more than the usual phonenumber to banks that send mTAN
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<DocScrutinizer05>
the carrier knows your IMEI and IMSI
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's just usually not forwarded with SMS or ACK-SMS-replies
<DocScrutinizer05>
banks may negotiate to receive such details, since they have an obvious interest in it
<DocScrutinizer05>
however only after first mTAN sent to you
<DocScrutinizer05>
bank receives a reception-confirmation feedback, and that may contain rich info
<DocScrutinizer05>
SIGH! >>** PROBLEM Service Alert: firewall-b.maemo.org/SSH is CRITICAL **<<
<DocScrutinizer05>
o.O web interface has no alarms
<DocScrutinizer05>
meh, prolly backup
<DocScrutinizer05>
o/
<wpwrak>
finally fission can begin :)
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<whitequark>
grmbl. lost all day to figuring out how to get to the warehouse with the reagents sent to me
<whitequark>
*no* public transport whatsoever stops within 1km of that area
<whitequark>
however that didn't stop Google from trying to tell me to board a bus that doesn't even exist
<whitequark>
wtf
<whitequark>
on the good side I got aerosol spray paint (not water based, judging by how hard it is to get it off my hands), and bought a *new* thermoregulated oven for $30 from some guy
<whitequark>
it even has a °C scale (instead of parrots, as it usually is) and the thermoregulation is surpsiginly good, according to my IR thermometer
<whitequark>
so, I don't even have to mod it.
* whitequark
ponders cooking something in it before condemning it to an industrial purpose
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<whitequark>
naw, that'll make it dirty with grease. and I could always repurpose it back to food later...
<wpwrak>
... with all the health benefits of the added nutrients, namely lead, flux vapours, ...
<wpwrak>
degC vs. ... parrots ?
<whitequark>
oooooh you don't know
<whitequark>
hang on
<wpwrak>
(warehouse) the 1 km blast radius may mean something. also, the disappearance of the bus may have a perfectly logical if tragic explanation
<DocScrutinizer05>
parrot seems a useful unit for heat
<wpwrak>
(parrots) i'm sure there are places where there are a common food source. but russia ?
<whitequark>
it's 8 minutes but it's totally worth it
<DocScrutinizer05>
wth? what were those authors smoking?
<whitequark>
hang on, it's not just some drug-fueled children's cartoon. it's a drug-fueled children's cartoon tackling a deep philosophical problem!
<whitequark>
for some reason pretty much all USSR cartoons have this, erm, "smokey" feel to them. "what was the author smoking" is a rather commonly used idiom...
<wpwrak>
hmm, i learned a lot about the rational number pi there :)
<whitequark>
hehe
<whitequark>
I especially like python's catharsis upon successful measurement
<wpwrak>
i was waiting until he got to have lunch. alas, they skipped that.
<whitequark>
nah, they're for preschoolers. strictly no violence
<whitequark>
to be honest, they're also much better than the pointless mundane crap people usually try to show preschoolers
<wpwrak>
hmm, considering what - thanks to youtube - russians are known to do for weekend entertainment, i'd expect a rather flexible definition of "no violence" :)
<whitequark>
well... keep in mind it's from USSR days. state controlled media rather tight, *especially* whatever could have an effect on children.
<wpwrak>
ah, only vegetarian pythons and peaceful military parades :)
<whitequark>
there also was a certain fragment which is I'm absolutely certain was produced by an LSD-fueled binge and nothing more, it didn't even make sense in context
<whitequark>
(the stuff above kinda does, it's from fairy tales... the author definitely did add an unique touch though)
<DocScrutinizer05>
what's the philosophical problem tackled now? the number of dimensions in a parrot?
<whitequark>
in the parrot cartoon? well, "what is measurement?" and the fact that you need an ethalon
<DocScrutinizer05>
or how much are 38 parrots in Liters Vodka
<whitequark>
I mean, that's not obvious to 5-year-old children unless they're DocScrutinizers. I've met 30-year-olds to whom this wasn't obvious :p
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh, such questions probably never occured to me
<whitequark>
oh?
<DocScrutinizer05>
probably I always seen measurement as an arbitrary relation between two entities
<DocScrutinizer05>
and it's never meaningful without the proper contect/definition
<DocScrutinizer05>
context*
<wpwrak>
i feel some relief that "dict" doesn't know "ethalon" either. google does, of course, but it's a bunch of names
<whitequark>
hm
<whitequark>
"standard"
<whitequark>
always thought it was a loaned word
<wpwrak>
maybe it moved straight up north, without stopping in the west
<whitequark>
I've realized a rather huge problem with my stencil milling ide
<whitequark>
*idea
<whitequark>
namely if I mill out, say, an outline of a chip... guess what it'll fall out.
<wpwrak>
closed polygons ? :)
<whitequark>
exactly
<whitequark>
two options: 1) not mill it out but engrave rather, then do as DocScrutinizer05 suggested: copper plate printing
<wpwrak>
so you have to leave little bridges
<whitequark>
2) bridges, yes
<whitequark>
I wanna try both options
<wpwrak>
else, you can always try the cnc mill + brush + pot of paint idea ;-)
<whitequark>
nah, too unstable
<wpwrak>
or, use an airbrush. but that limits you to about 1 mm minimum width
<whitequark>
airbrush?
<whitequark>
how'd I?
<wpwrak>
mount on cnc mill, add computer-controlled air valve
<wpwrak>
lock the airbrush's own control knob into a suitable position
<whitequark>
meh
<wpwrak>
would probably take about a week to get it right. but hey, the views on youtube ! :)
<wpwrak>
add some fancy music and dance around the mill (while painting) like a wild dervish and yours is gangnam style 2014 :)
<wpwrak>
you have to add girls, though. else, it's just some sad geek. but having girls in the picture means, whatever it is you're doing, it's not an evolutionary dead-end.
* whitequark
sighs
<whitequark>
now I can segfault eagle
<wpwrak>
that's an unusual request
<whitequark>
it's not request, it's a bug in this damn CAD
<wpwrak>
ah :) right ... "now", not "how". need stronger glasses
<wpwrak>
why use eagle when there's open and free kicad ?
<whitequark>
I'm used to eagle and practically everyone (sparkfun, dangerousprototypes, etc) use it
<whitequark>
also, pcb-gcode CAM
<DocScrutinizer05>
ROTFL
<DocScrutinizer05>
GANGAM STYLE!
<DocScrutinizer05>
segfault eagle? :-o
<DocScrutinizer05>
FFS!
<DocScrutinizer05>
Send the file to me, I might turn it into something useful! ;-)
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: it's an ULP. repro: UL_WIRE w[]; int n; B.elements(E) E.texts(T) T.wires(W) { w[n++] = W; }; UL_WIRE W = w[0]; W.layer;
<whitequark>
put any package on board and smash it
<DocScrutinizer05>
ow that's true gibberish to me ;-P
<DocScrutinizer05>
do you think upper and lowercase W/w is a smart idea?
<whitequark>
well, that's just the abridged version I posted here
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd not be surprised when that does havoc to the interpreter, when at one occasion those two vars are considered entities and other occasion does a toupper() or whatever
<whitequark>
nah, it's irrelevant
<whitequark>
the interpreters which are that shitty died out at about 2000 :p
<whitequark>
(I've checked)
<DocScrutinizer05>
eagle is older
<DocScrutinizer05>
;-P
<whitequark>
its ULP language is surprisingly good
<DocScrutinizer05>
still looks like dark voodoo to me
<whitequark>
I mean, it's not painful to use, that's already something
<whitequark>
haha, nice bug. that ULP blows through eagle stack
<whitequark>
now the problem is, how do I make it work? -_-
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<wpwrak>
("everybody" uses eagle) billions of flies can't be all wrong about the taste of feces ... ;-)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: everybody uses eagle means there are designs and libraries available
<whitequark>
last time I checked you had to do practically all cases AND symbols yourself for kicad
<wpwrak>
did you ever machine-copy from a design ?
<whitequark>
hm?
<wpwrak>
well, yes, but i made sure i spend very little time on such things :)
<whitequark>
okay... hm. stencils. I wonder if I can position this shit well enough to engrave on film.
<whitequark>
surprisingly, yes, but the engraving is crap
<whitequark>
um... it worked, in a weird way
<whitequark>
I pushed the ink into grooves on stencil *and it stayed there8
<whitequark>
absolutely no ink transferred to board
<whitequark>
guess when I spread it in a thin layer, it dries so much quicker that there is no way I can transfer it quickly enough
<whitequark>
okay... tomorrow I'll try to figure something out
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<wpwrak>
apply solvent ;-)
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<whitequark>
meh
<whitequark>
not reproducible well enough
<whitequark>
I think I devised a way to make CAM output bridges
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<wpwrak>
maybe like this: order corners by angle. place bridge on the ones with sharpest angles unless there's another sharp-angled close enough that making a bridge there will do. when done with corners, consider all straight lines that are too long. divide by two until you have the right distance. then add bridges.
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<whitequark>
nah, I'll do simpler
<wpwrak>
i think that should look reasonably well for most patterns
<wpwrak>
for text, you may want manual rules
<whitequark>
the CAM is really simple: it just asks eagle for list of wires and then outputs those as gcode
<whitequark>
so what I'll do: I'll make it record the length of the toolpath it wrote since last plunge into material
<whitequark>
when that length exceeds X mm, it takes cutter out of material for Y mm while following same toolpath
<whitequark>
eg X=5mm Y=0.4mm
<whitequark>
text to me is just wires. I don't render it
<whitequark>
well, "wires", it's really lines when talking about silkscreen.
<wpwrak>
okay. you'll get some funny results that way, but at least it will let you explore the process
<whitequark>
funny? I'd think the result would be rather good
<whitequark>
sure, lines would be interrupted in random places, but who the hell cares. it's an inherent defect of this proces
<whitequark>
rearranging bridges to make it more regular changes absolutely zilch
<wpwrak>
X= 4 mm, line of 10 mm. bridge from 4.0-4.5 and 8.5-9.0, meaning slot 0.0-4.0, 4.5-8.5, 9.0-10.0 :)
<whitequark>
so?
<wpwrak>
it'll look odd. don't forget that your patterns aren't necessarily closed polygons
<whitequark>
took that into account
<wpwrak>
i mean for the visual effect
<whitequark>
distributing brides evenly is a rather inordinate amount of work I'd rather not do
<wpwrak>
well, it's the same for a closed polygon. two bridges very close to each other will look odd. but then, you can always optimize later.
<whitequark>
why would they be close in a closed polygon? if lines are arranged in just the right way, the entire polygon would be considered "one line"
<whitequark>
in CAM
<whitequark>
not always the case, e.g. whoever drawn the symbol for pinhead arranged wires in a *weird* way
<whitequark>
almost random
<wpwrak>
i mean like in the 10 mm example, well, actually no. it's the opposite - you'll get larger gaps
<whitequark>
eh?
<whitequark>
well whatever, you'll see it soon enough
<wpwrak>
e.g., 0 to 10 mm, closed path. X=3, Y = 1. the slots you get: 0-3 4-7 8-0 -> 8-3
<whitequark>
ah yes, at the closing point of path there'll be an irregularity
<whitequark>
can't do anything with that
<whitequark>
not without treating path as proper polygon and not just a bunch of lines
<DocScrutinizer05>
the paint won't magically flow out of trenches and onto your PCB. You need to apply some arguments that convince paint to move
<DocScrutinizer05>
a) wet the copper plate with e.g water with a drop of detergent
<DocScrutinizer05>
b) use very thin paint
<DocScrutinizer05>
c) use any form of knocking. Like maybe ultrasonic
<whitequark>
eugh
<whitequark>
well... let's first look how the bridges idea fares
<wpwrak>
if you can "collect" paths from tool down to tool up, you could just adjust your initial distance value to distribute it evenly. and, to make closed polygons nice, make the initial slot not much larger than X/2
<whitequark>
I know, I just don't really want to implement that in ULP
<DocScrutinizer05>
when you cut V shaped trneches into copper plate, you can count on some water stciking in tip of that V. When paint sits above that minimal amount of water, then laminator heating up the copperplate to >100°C will probably work