<wpwrak>
or just move to japan and let the earthquakes do the stirring ;)
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<whitequark>
damn! no free lunch for me
<whitequark>
the laser printer has a systematic error
<whitequark>
actually, hm, no, I don't think it's printer, I've explicitly verified that printer has less than .05mm deviation on 10cm square
<whitequark>
inkscape? I bet it's inkscape.
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<whitequark>
hah, an interesting physical effect: etchant is so concentrated that if I leave a drop of water, it doesn't dry to leave some white markings
<whitequark>
rather it dries to become a sphere with a hard crystallized shell and soft "sludge" inside
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<wpwrak>
(the title is correct, but what follows is half-truths at best)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: I'll be able to speak about it concretely after I ship the next parcel in a few days..
<wpwrak>
you must have made their major importers watchlist by now ;-)
<paul_boddie>
wpwrak: Well, who is truly able to keep on top of what the Argentine government is doing?
<paul_boddie>
It's Whitequark Industries now!
<wpwrak>
paul_boddie: not even themselves ;-)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: that is quite likely actually
<whitequark>
since I truthfully declared what is classified as "industrial equipment"
<whitequark>
it is both flattering and inconvenient at the same time :p
<paul_boddie>
wpwrak: I think people just started to give up trying to follow them. The Economist refused to print their statistics and more or less called them liars.
<wpwrak>
hah. what would Marx say about that ? industrial equipment in private hands ? never ! comrade whitequark, you have been a very bad boy. we'll have to confiscate all your toys.
<paul_boddie>
No, he's surely seizing the means of production from the borgeois ruling classes.
<wpwrak>
paul_boddie: well, that is certainly true. the official inflation figures are in the 10% p.a. range. more credible sources have 25-30%
<wpwrak>
paul_boddie: ah, the new strategy - just buy up all the means of production from the capitalist class enemy, so they'll starve. clever.
<paul_boddie>
Well, if the capitalists are Anglo-Saxon, they'll probably sell you the means of production and rent it back just to get some quick cash.
* whitequark
doesn't get it
<paul_boddie>
I think it was another wpwrak joke about life in the former USSR.
<whitequark>
no, the anglo-saxon one
<paul_boddie>
But the selling off and renting back thing is classic modern capitalism.
<paul_boddie>
Business owners thinking that they have too much money "tied up" in assets and want some more to spend, so they sell the assets off but still need them to actually make money.
<wpwrak>
yeah, lots of fun stuff there. also in the form of cross-border leasing. usually pretty ruinous.
<paul_boddie>
You get this in "economically liberal" countries where they privatise essential services or industries: there's a "lottery winner" moment of being given lots of cash, but then you have to pay for everything.
<paul_boddie>
Where "you" is the state and, of course, the individual (via taxes or fees for things that used to be included in taxes).
<wpwrak>
well, the taxpayer pays either way. but usually prices go up, service quality goes down, and maintenance gets neglected when you take that route. there are countless examples for this.
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* whitequark
. o O ( what if I add H2O2 to (NH4)2S2O8? )
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<CYB3R>
pcercueiS2: hi! could you please share your jz-boot configuration?
<pcercueiS2>
ehrm
<pcercueiS2>
I don't have any specific configuration
<CYB3R>
I mean that config files
<pcercueiS2>
I don't use anything else than the default config
<CYB3R>
so you just 'nprogram' your image to nand?
<pcercueiS2>
yes
<pcercueiS2>
nerase one block first
<pcercueiS2>
then nprogram
<CYB3R>
Do you have only 2 binary images? Bootloader and ubifs?
<pcercueiS2>
well I never flashed an UBI image using jz-boot, when I did it it was through a running system
<pcercueiS2>
but I believe you can do that, yes
<pcercueiS2>
beware, ubiboot will run a kernel stored on a UBI volume, but it does not understand ubifs
<CYB3R>
pcercueiS2: I can't understand it. How could it load a kernel from ubi volume without ubifs?
<pcercueiS2>
well, UBI is not a filesystem, it's a FTL
<pcercueiS2>
ubifs is a filesystem designed to run on top of UBI
<CYB3R>
What does FTL stands for?
<pcercueiS2>
basically, UBI provides you with volumes (sub-partitions, sort of)
<pcercueiS2>
where you can store raw data, or ordered data with a filesystem
<pcercueiS2>
flash translation layer
<pcercueiS2>
it's mostly a software layer that provide wear levelling and handling of bad blocks
<CYB3R>
Is it kind of abstraction on NAND flash?
<pcercueiS2>
yes
<pcercueiS2>
without it, it would die in no time
<pcercueiS2>
SD cards have such a layer too, but it's internal to the card and not exposed to the SD card reader
<CYB3R>
Do UBI and MTD have similar functions?
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<pcercueiS2>
MTD gives you low-level access to the physical blocks of the NAND
<pcercueiS2>
UBI spreads its logical blocks on the NAND device; two consecutive logical blocks in UBI may not be physically consecutive
<pcercueiS2>
you could store data directly on the NAND via the MTD nodes, but you'd trash your NAND in no time
<pcercueiS2>
that's why UBI exists
<CYB3R>
Okay, it's some memory controller logic to manage bad blocks and all this things. This is a good thing. How do I start using UBI?
<pcercueiS2>
I think ubiboot expects the UBI to exist at a specific address and size on the NAND
<pcercueiS2>
basically create a file of the correct size, create an UBI layer on it, create a volume named "kernel", then write there your vmlinuz.bin file
<pcercueiS2>
and then flash the image at the correct address using jz-boot
<CYB3R>
Can I write a file to volume with no filesystem?
<pcercueiS2>
yes, and that's what ubiboot expects
<pcercueiS2>
for detailed steps you'll have to search the web, I don't remember the commands
<CYB3R>
I don't understand this part about writing file to volume with no filesystem
<pcercueiS2>
...
<CYB3R>
Do you use dd with an offset for this?
<CYB3R>
I'll try searching tools for ubi
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<CYB3R>
Btw, is SDRAM initialisation code in UBIBoot taken from ingenic's nand-boot?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: 30min sounds exactly OK
<DocScrutinizer05>
((<CYB3R> Can I write a file to volume with no filesystem?)) hardly since then you got no bad block management at all
<DocScrutinizer05>
since there's no bad block handling on hw level and in mtd drivers, you need something in your "filesystem" drivers to do that. dd and similar tools don't have any idea about bad blocks
<DocScrutinizer05>
ubifs does
<DocScrutinizer05>
usually the bootloader checks first 4 blocks to find a vmlinuz image header. vmlinuz afaik is a "self extracting archive" and should manage (and skip) bad blocks while decompressing. During flashing the tool that is flashing your kernel will need a method to handle and "skip" bad blocks
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak probably knows much better than I do
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<pcercuei>
hey larsc
<pcercuei>
at which hour should I show up tomorrow?
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh, sorry for the nonsense about vmlinuz, when you use UBIboot it is obviously the UBI FTL that handles the bad blocks, and thus you need a UBI aware tool to flash vmlinuz to NAND
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't know what exactly uBoot is using for FTL, and I never looked into UBIboot before
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