<whitequark>
why the F the .35mm one is still smaller than .30mm one
<DocScrutinizer05>
and those transparent foils are maybe charged with static and thus attract dust before you even feed them to printer
<whitequark>
they are
<DocScrutinizer05>
is it?
<whitequark>
yes. also look at .25mm one
<DocScrutinizer05>
hard to tell exact size from that photo
<whitequark>
both .25mm one and .35mm one are clearly wider than .30mm one
<whitequark>
I've verified it by measuring pixel size in gimp
<whitequark>
look at the very bottom, 0.45 one
<whitequark>
it's squished
<DocScrutinizer05>
weird
<whitequark>
actually the whole column of numbers is just awfully distorted
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep
<DocScrutinizer05>
comparing 45 and 25 it looks nasty
<whitequark>
yep, they were identical size in .svg
<whitequark>
hm... let me try it on plain paper
<DocScrutinizer05>
which direction is paper transport? perpendicular to lines?
<whitequark>
yep
<DocScrutinizer05>
then it's probably cause by transport
<whitequark>
so, uneven transport speed can totally cause this
<whitequark>
no distortion on paper
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-S
<whitequark>
well, let me check again
<DocScrutinizer05>
print a fine grid pattern to check
<whitequark>
wow, I found the cause
<whitequark>
if I tell the printer I'll print on "transparencies" it produces this horrendous distortion
<whitequark>
even on paper!
<whitequark>
however if I tell it "plain paper" it does ok
<DocScrutinizer05>
you easily can wrap the foil or use two prints to compare them by laying them top on top and then sliding against the other one
<DocScrutinizer05>
wow
<whitequark>
so, let me feed it the transparent sheet and say it's paper...
<whitequark>
ohhh... found another cause of defect. you can't print on same transparent sheet twice.
<whitequark>
it gets physically distorted by some transport machinery right after the heating elements
<whitequark>
so it's not flat anymore and the printing is screwed up next time
<DocScrutinizer05>
oooh, NEVER print on dirty sheets
<DocScrutinizer05>
no matter what's the dirt
<whitequark>
but I have, like, 10 transparent sheets! and they're A4 and my boards are 10x10cm max
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh
<whitequark>
it's absurd to throw away so much sheets
<whitequark>
I can buy more I guess, they're not exactly expensive
<whitequark>
but it is still wasteful
<DocScrutinizer05>
just in case you're really in a pinch: i've seen "holders" made of carton or somesuch, where you can insert the corners of envelopes or postcards or similar into slots of the holder to feed it to printer
<whitequark>
left to right: new transparency; used once transparency; transparency+paper
<whitequark>
it is truly horrible imprint and probably not good for drum
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: o/ I'm off to sleep.
<DocScrutinizer05>
hah, I guess that's *all* about temperature
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<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: how about putting your printer to the polygraph and first check out how it really thinks? a storage scope or even logic analyzer might go a long way in checking fixation drum temperature (from heating voltage), transport speed (from stepper voltages or even sensor output), maybe you even can analyze charging voltage and laser control?
<DocScrutinizer05>
is your printer still a true laserprinter or already a LED matrix printer?
<DocScrutinizer05>
seems I have a deficit of experience with disassembling to-the-bones some laserprinters. I don't actually know how they *really* work inside
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* DocScrutinizer05
guesses all contemporary "laser" printers to work with 600DPI LED lines of some 22cm width
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>Numerous patents[specify] describe the photosensitive drum coating as a silicon sandwich with a photocharging layer, a charge leakage barrier layer, as well as a surface layer. One version[specify] uses amorphous silicon containing hydrogen as the light receiving layer, Boron nitride as a charge leakage barrier layer, as well as a surface layer of doped silicon, notably silicon with oxygen or nitrogen which at sufficient
<DocScrutinizer05>
OK, a few things I learned from service manual: *) media type directly controls fuser temperature; *) media (paper) humidity is relevant, even too high (or too low) air humidity may result in sup-par printout.
<DocScrutinizer05>
learned from unspecified source: Toner is hygroscopic and thus ages, by adsorbing water
<DocScrutinizer05>
^^^ s/media type/ media type setting/
<DocScrutinizer05>
some sources speak of "180°C +/-10° according to media type setting"
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: suggestion: consider using thin non-transparent but translucent media (thin paper). It might create a light spreader layer causing way less shadowing even when light beams are nor perfectly perpendicular and parallel to mask
<DocScrutinizer05>
when you have a toner thickness of let's say 0.1mm then at 30° angle between trace in mask and light source you already have a 0.05mm shadow seam on the side of trace that is next to light source
<DocScrutinizer05>
when you have a light spreader layer (paper) directly on top of toner, there can't be any shadowing
<DocScrutinizer05>
of course the paper has to be translucent for the relevant light wavelength. For UV this might get tricky
<DocScrutinizer05>
a matte sheet of transparent plastic material might work much better, both for UV passing thru and for toner nicely adhering to the matte roughened surface. The surface structure creating micro diffusion "lenses" for the light
<DocScrutinizer05>
NFC what's the trade name for such media, or if it exists at all
<DocScrutinizer05>
for your major problem, the dust problem: your only other option except bathroom is building a mini cleanroom out of a glass cabinet and a strong fan with air filter that blows out all the dust from the cabinet thru the manipulator window
<DocScrutinizer05>
by creating a air pressure inside the cabinet (all old computer racks will work for your purpose. They did exactly that)
<DocScrutinizer05>
(since IBM PC - for "economy reasons, read "only one fan for PSU and mainboard - industry exactly inverted that principle, turning PC cabinets into giant vacuum cleaners collecting dust inside in a way that makes your real vacuum cleaner turn green from envy)
<CYB3R>
whitequark: do you know if it is possible to find the source of spl_stage1.bin?
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<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: hmmm, you tempt me to actually disassemble it and look at it from inside
<whitequark>
a pity I can't look into its firmware to determine what it uses for different specified media types (yay for proprietary hw :])
<whitequark>
I can measure hotrod temperature quite simply: open its backcover where the hotrod is visible and point my IR temperature meter at it
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: (disassemble) I tried to find a service manual for DCP7010R but to not success
<DocScrutinizer05>
I find it quite puzzling that HP P1505 allegedly is a class1 laser product. Probably only after mirror wheel spreading stuff
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess the laser itself must be sufficiently powerful to properly expose the area of 12 A4 sheets per minute
<DocScrutinizer05>
I dunno shit about the sensitivity of the photo drum surface
<DocScrutinizer05>
my service manual mentions too low fixation temperature as a possible cause of toner spearing and wavy effect in distorted character shapes
<DocScrutinizer05>
seems the fixation unit works with a foil sliding with the paper and the toner under a pressure&heat plate that's fixed
<DocScrutinizer05>
when the "friction" between the foil and paper/toner isn't high enough, the foil will not get transported properly by the moving paper and thus gets stopped by friction to the heating plate
<DocScrutinizer05>
thus the paper and toner slip under the foil and toner gets smeared or even moved across the paper surface
<DocScrutinizer05>
s/spearing/smearing|spreading/
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<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: reading this P1505 manual actually is kinda educating
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<CYB3R>
I finally figured out what is wrong with my board
<CYB3R>
sdram doesn't work at all
<CYB3R>
it only read 0x01230123
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: >>The thermistor keeps the surface temperature of the heat roller constant by detecting the surface temperature of the heat roller and turning on or off the halogen heater lamp.<< makes me wonder if that creates some discontinuity when media type setting is "transparent"
<whitequark>
yep
<whitequark>
oh neat, maintenance mode
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<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: 8.4.13 Paper Feeding and Ejecting Test (Function code 67)
<whitequark>
Function
<whitequark>
This function allows you to check that a sheet of paper is fed and ejected correctly by
<whitequark>
printing the grid pattern on a page, whose interval is 1cm.
<whitequark>
think I'll run this one on a spare transparency sheet
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah
<DocScrutinizer05>
however I wonder if it regards media type setting in this test
<whitequark>
I don't think there is even a way to set media type in this test
<DocScrutinizer05>
exactly my concern
<DocScrutinizer05>
the test been designed to run on plain paper
<whitequark>
hmmm
<DocScrutinizer05>
though, who knows
<whitequark>
grids printed on paper and transparency don't seem to match
<DocScrutinizer05>
stretch foil may shrink when exposed to high temperature
<whitequark>
(high-temp usage) oh yes, it was sold specifically as "transparency sheet for printing pcb photonegatives on laser printer"
<whitequark>
by mgchemicals
<DocScrutinizer05>
make some markers on transparent *before* rointing/heating. check for shrinking
<whitequark>
uhh, won't that make drum dirty?
<DocScrutinizer05>
printing even
<whitequark>
though I can make markings on non-drum side
<DocScrutinizer05>
depends
<DocScrutinizer05>
exactly
<DocScrutinizer05>
and you can use scratches instead of ink
<whitequark>
it's a bit hard to make them precise
<whitequark>
oh, hm, I can just compare a sheet with an unused one
<DocScrutinizer05>
is a pin to pierce tiny holes in 10mm distance to sheet
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure
<whitequark>
crap, this was the last one
<DocScrutinizer05>
when even over-all length changed, then you know what's up
<DocScrutinizer05>
the fact that used sheets are not printable for a second run in my book indicates that material suffers and is not really resilient to the fixation heat
<whitequark>
you are right here. so, I guess I need to buy new ones anyway
<DocScrutinizer05>
this might make the difference between a cheap and a quality product
<whitequark>
yeah it was $3
<whitequark>
per 5 films
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm
<DocScrutinizer05>
I can't recall prices when I last bought that stuff
<DocScrutinizer05>
obsolete info anyway
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<DocScrutinizer05>
buying some foils that are specified in DS for a certain temperature should probably work better
<DocScrutinizer05>
particularly when that temperature is significantly higher than what you probed on your fixing drum
<whitequark>
hm, I know what experiment I want to run
<whitequark>
run that mangled foil through my laminator with known temp.
<whitequark>
I know. it's just a bit hard to buy here. can't find any in local shops
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>Not designed for color copiers.<< .oO(???)
<whitequark>
nfc
<whitequark>
oh, troubleshooting -> wrinkles or creases
<whitequark>
page 204
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: ran through laminator. 1) it removed wrinkles due to printer's feeding mechanism (four vertical depressions)
<whitequark>
2) the whole sheet is now wavy
<whitequark>
so, shitty film
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod:
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>3M also recommends the use of thicker and more robust transparency products, such as PP2950, for hot-temperature or slower-printing machines.<<
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<whitequark>
*nod*
<whitequark>
oooh take a look at page 215
<whitequark>
it has a comprehensive guide to fixing image distortions
<whitequark>
why is that not in user manual?!
<whitequark>
(film) no shops in russia seem to stock m3 transparencies
<whitequark>
at least search comes out with 0 results
<whitequark>
it's all Lomond
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>A: We don’t advise using CG3300 in your color laser printer. Color laser printers have higher fuser temperatures than black-and-white laser printers. The toners in these two machines also are different. For these reasons, we strongly encourage the use of the following recommended color laser printer transparency products: 3MTM Color LaserPrinter Transparency Film CG3700, 3MTM Color Laser Printer Transparency Film CG3720, or
<DocScrutinizer05>
3MTM Color Laser Printer Transparency Film CG3710.<<
<DocScrutinizer05>
cg3700 is high-temp color laser printer spec'ed
<DocScrutinizer05>
cool stuff
<whitequark>
seems like only some corporate resellers stock this
<whitequark>
and it's out of stock everywhere, too
<whitequark>
aha, found it locally
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: ((was sold specifically as "transparency sheet for printing pcb photonegatives on laser printer")) maybe that means it shall be treated like normal paper, not like transparent film
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: but I *was* printing on it like on normal paper and it still got mangled
<whitequark>
like right now in last test
<whitequark>
or yesterday
<DocScrutinizer05>
shit crappy product then
<whitequark>
that's what I wrote in my amazon review
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<DocScrutinizer05>
get that 3M stuff, they at least give a 100%_satisfied_or_money_back warranty
<whitequark>
well... I'd have to be in US to get that, no?
<DocScrutinizer05>
dunno
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think that such warranty exists gives a certain hint on product quality
<DocScrutinizer05>
though... might be a trick as well
<DocScrutinizer05>
not by 3M though
<whitequark>
ah
<DocScrutinizer05>
ideally PP2950 it seems
<DocScrutinizer05>
thicker/stronger and higher fusing-temperature than other stuff
<DocScrutinizer05>
or you find CG6000
<whitequark>
for PP2950 all hits are to resellers from ebay
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<whitequark>
CG6000 is same thing as CG3700 wrt/ availability
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<DocScrutinizer05>
quite surprising they make a difference in their products for B&W and color laser printers, claiming that the color sheets are specifically coated for transparent color toner
<DocScrutinizer05>
they don't say the color stuff doesn't work for b&w though
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess it's just more expensive
<DocScrutinizer05>
the often mentioned "3M Transparency Film Compatibility Guide" is nowhere to find
<DocScrutinizer05>
and the prices are breathtaking - up to 1 buck per sheet
<whitequark>
I found 50 pages here for 980 RUB, that's 28 USD
<whitequark>
so, yeah
<DocScrutinizer05>
designed for "normal temperature mode"
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>Polyester clear film is designed for printing on black-and-white and several types of colour laser printers and copiers with normal temperature mode.<<
<DocScrutinizer05>
so definitely no high-temperature aka color laserprinter
<DocScrutinizer05>
no safety margin for your usecase
<DocScrutinizer05>
duh! that stuff comes with a paper "mount2 to get removed after printing
<DocScrutinizer05>
is that usual?
<whitequark>
hmmm
<whitequark>
not really, never used such film
<whitequark>
probably wrong product then, one sec
<whitequark>
no, right product
<whitequark>
hmmmm
<whitequark>
ahhh, I know what they mean
<whitequark>
it's a small piece of paper *at the front edge of film*, presumably to assist printer feed mechanism
<whitequark>
I've had it on that type of film before, yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
I once owned a AGFA copier that used only pressure (no heat) for fusing toner
<DocScrutinizer05>
judging by the springs used to push the two rollers together, it must have operated with several hundered kp/cm^2
<DocScrutinizer05>
cute: it needed zero heatup time
<DocScrutinizer05>
alas it weighed ~40kg
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway I love those Brother printers. They seem to really just work, particularly with linux
<DocScrutinizer05>
a friend ahd a MFCdunnowhat with scanner, and it was a matter of plug&print/scan, pretty unusual particularly for scanners
<DocScrutinizer05>
while damn HP needs HPLIP
<DocScrutinizer05>
which is a PITA really
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<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: yeah I got the brother printer for exactly that reason
<whitequark>
and you indeed can just get a ppd file from brother site and it'll work
<whitequark>
also: no DRM in cartridges. refill however many times you want, change any parts you want
<whitequark>
(although in the most recent printers that seems to have changed :(
<whitequark>
btw: scanner doesn't really work in linux due to some obscure changes in cups... the driver was written in like 2006. so I just use a windows xp vm for scanning.
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<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: haha, the film manufacturer claims it's stable up to 200°C
<whitequark>
must have a different definition of "stable" than mine
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, read the 3M FAQ, particularly about why they do NOT rate a temperature - it depends on 2 factors: true temperature of roller, and time of contact to media
<whitequark>
right
<DocScrutinizer05>
the faster your printer, the higher the true temperature to still heat up "paper" sufficiently. For sure the heating up is not identical to temperature of roller
<DocScrutinizer05>
lol, some fool tries to log in a ibot once again
<whitequark>
waitwaitwait
<whitequark>
I was browsing the MGChemicals catalog idly
<whitequark>
after looking at their crap paper
<whitequark>
and apparently they offer Fluorinert fluid, which looks kinda like Galden
<whitequark>
A unique combination of properties and a high boiling point (215 ° C) makes this liquid ideal for many electronics applications, including high temperature heat transfer, vapor phase reflow soldering and many electronic quality and reliability tests.
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, 215°
<DocScrutinizer05>
I know that stuff, been there
<whitequark>
they sell to canadians. that's not a problem for me, I prolly can arrange
<DocScrutinizer05>
what do you want to do with 215°C "Galden"?
<DocScrutinizer05>
isn't that a bit low?
<whitequark>
VPS?
<whitequark>
well... leaded solder is 180°C
<whitequark>
I'm not that much interested in lead-free
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, right
<DocScrutinizer05>
you'll maybe have a hard time finding suitable components
<whitequark>
how so?
<DocScrutinizer05>
seems I've read about components that cannot get soldered lead
<whitequark>
I've never encountered this so far. all is perfectly soldered by leaded
<whitequark>
perhaps some BGA have lead-free balls
<DocScrutinizer05>
right, all have
<DocScrutinizer05>
a tad tricky to solder this stuff with lead temperature
<whitequark>
hm well... BGA isn't for your average hobbyist though
<DocScrutinizer05>
right
<whitequark>
you need a CAD with >2 layers, board with >2 layers
<DocScrutinizer05>
but quite in range of VPS
<whitequark>
know-how to design all that
<DocScrutinizer05>
aah right
<whitequark>
sure. I mean quite a bit of time will pass before I'll get to BGA probably
<DocScrutinizer05>
there are 4pin "BGA" cases
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<DocScrutinizer05>
but sure, you don't need to use those packages
<DocScrutinizer05>
or those components
<whitequark>
yeah, it sounds like an extreme case useful for phones maybe
<whitequark>
it's ß in the actual title. stupid wordpress
<larsc>
that's actyally not a bad translation
<larsc>
ah, I thought this was some kind of auto-translation by google
<whitequark>
larsc: nah, google translates "Die spinnen" as "spin"
<whitequark>
which is apparently correct as well
<whitequark>
I need to make myself a tshirt with those spiders
<larsc>
whitequark: that's the literal translation
<whitequark>
larsc: yeah, I looked it up in the dictionary
<whitequark>
apparently google translate can't sense that much context
<larsc>
they can, they just don't want you to know ;)
<larsc>
and the search bar on the google page is only there so you don't get suspicious as to why they already know what you can to search
<larsc>
s/can/want/
<qi-bot>
larsc meant: "and the search bar on the google page is only there so you don't get suspicious as to why they already know what you want to search"
<whitequark>
hehe
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess there just isn't that much context
<DocScrutinizer05>
"wenn Fliegen hinter Fiegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen hinterher"
<DocScrutinizer05>
now remove uppercase and feed that to google ;-)
<larsc>
when flies fly behind flies, fly fly fly behind
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: interesting thing I found in manual for my printer
<whitequark>
you can set default contrast to "super dark"
<whitequark>
there's no such setting exposed to cups!
<DocScrutinizer05>
\o/
<whitequark>
though, you see, this printer secretly believes it's a fax machine, despite no fax mechanical or electronical parts
<whitequark>
so maybe it's only for that imaginary fax
<whitequark>
oh wow, it includes complete circuit diagrams
<whitequark>
no, not complete, just power supply
<whitequark>
that setting doesn't really appears to have changed anything
<whitequark>
so prolly "imaginary fax"
<larsc>
interesting plan9 is now GPL
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<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, plan9. nice. first time I really took a look into it
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<benn__>
hi everyone, I am a new to the ben nanonote and I have a specific question regarding the use of spectec wifi card
<benn__>
to make it short: i have the kernel 3.2.1 and the related image from the qi-repo; the needed modules for the spectec card are in /lib/firmware; everything seems to load fine at boot
<benn__>
but: I don't get a 'eth0' device when I do iwconfig; dmesg does not show me any line with mmc0
<benn__>
I don't know if I am missing something obvious
<whitequark>
post dmesg output here
<benn__>
I am sorry, I don't have my nanonote connected to my computer now; do I have to inspect something specific regarding dmesg?
<benn__>
my boot process: I have pluged the spectec in the ben, and boot; right after boot, there is a little green light on the spectec card which only remains 3 secs, then no light anymore
<whitequark>
well, there should be something mmc-related in dmesg
<whitequark>
the card detect switch is usually mechanic...