<wpwrak>
(ir sensor) i wonder how long until someone finally makes a low-cost high-res sensor ...
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<whitequark>
okay, the cnc has arrived
<wpwrak>
i pity your neighbours
<whitequark>
hm, why?
<wpwrak>
you don't expect it to be silent, do you ? :)
<whitequark>
well, those fuckers just *love* to drill some walls when I'm trying to sleep
<wpwrak>
and at, say, 4 am, sound carries far ...
<whitequark>
so, let them suffer
<whitequark>
(it goes without saying that I don't necessarily try to sleep at night)
<wpwrak>
hint: you get the best sound effects when milling aluminium. since it's not self-lubricating, it will screech ...
<wpwrak>
yes, i took that into consideration :)
<whitequark>
unfortunately, there's some $work to do before I can play with it...
<wpwrak>
to avoid turning my friendly neighbours into mortal enemies, i constructed a double-walled box for my mill, with foam between the walls. that keeps moderate amounts of noise in quite well.
<wpwrak>
good enough for pcbs, acrylic, mdf, wood, and such.
<nicksydney>
after 2 days of troubleshooting 555 issue the problem lies in with the IC
<whitequark>
mmhm. on the serious note, the walls here are not *that* bad. if you're not drilling the wall directly, it's not really loud
<whitequark>
not annoyingly loud
<wpwrak>
you'd probably still hear the mill's pitiful screaming is it works it way through aluminium, though. my mill isn't very strong, so it has to go very slow for Al.
<nicksydney>
lesson learned : make sure you have *ENOUGH* of component that you are using for your project in hand !!!!
<wpwrak>
nicksydney: did you overcook it ? :)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: are houses in Argentina also made of cardboard, like they do in US for some weird reason?
<wpwrak>
and yes, that's why i always buy something like 10 at a time ;-)
<nicksydney>
wpwrak: i think so.....i remembered for some reason i was testing it with a mobile phone power supply (5v , 800ma) to use it on the breadboard...as i don't have enough batter lying around !
<nicksydney>
when it flash man !! I feel so exposed ! :)
<wpwrak>
whitequark: the walls are reasonable. not medieval fortress-style, but okay. hollow bricks for interior walls. the sound may not get that much through the walls but through other openings. isolation isn't a very high priority around here.
<wpwrak>
;-)
<whitequark>
ahh, I see. I can say that, say, screams of children are appropriately attenuated
<whitequark>
okay, that sounded a little bit more weird than I wanted it to
<whitequark>
anyway, we'll learn soon enough. if there's an angry crowd and a battering ram at my door, I need to invest in soundproofing
<wpwrak>
i guess the adult dissidents are more of a nuisance. stronger lungs and lower frequencies ...
<nicksydney>
next step is to make the PCB for the police siren with 2 x 555 timer
<wpwrak>
i'd skip the 555. it's too obsolete. you don't learn anything useful with it.
<nicksydney>
wpwrak: should i just jump to KL chip ?
<wpwrak>
you could make a little development board with the kl25. have a few leds, some headers, usb, and use the frdm-kl25z for programming
<nicksydney>
these 2 days really thought me something ... multimeter does not tell you the problem it can help you to detect voltage and current but it does not "show" you what wave pattern the voltage is in
<wpwrak>
(i hope you got the latter to work now)
<nicksydney>
damn it! haven't done the kl25z upgrade using Windows ....crap !
<wpwrak>
(wave pattern) now, miracles not included ;-)
<wpwrak>
hah ! :)
<nicksydney>
if i have used a scope perhaps i could have seen that it is not giving out any wave pattern .. so at least i know it was a screwy IC
<nicksydney>
wpwrak: i don't understand why doesn't freescale provide flashing using USB ?
<wpwrak>
you'll need a scope in the longer run. better plan on getting one. and don't look at the ultra-cheap ones. they're just trouble.
<nicksydney>
like Atmel
<nicksydney>
wpwrak: i'm saving for one...hopefully will save around $400 in the next 2-3months time
<wpwrak>
(flashing via usb) dunno. the chips would certainly be in a range where such a feature could be expected. maybe they'll add it in the future.
<wpwrak>
the frdm-kl25z is actually quite nice once you get it to work. the file-based interface avoids all the trouble with drivers. their only (big) mistake was to not care about linux compatibility right from the beginning.
<nicksydney>
wpwrak: so if i didn't have the kl25z board and i design a board with the KL chip how do one go about flashing it then ?
<wpwrak>
you'd have to cook up an SWD solution with openocd and such. this promises to be messy. i wouldn't go that route.
<whitequark>
openocd's swd support is meh
<wpwrak>
i'd get the frdm board to work, then either use that all the time or make a dfu loader and work with this
<wpwrak>
exactly :)
<wpwrak>
it exists but it's a mess
<nicksydney>
what is a dfu loader ? it's a bootloader ?
<wpwrak>
what i've seen regarding swd has convinced me that it should be possible to piece an open solution together but that it would be a piece of work
<wpwrak>
dfu is a transfer protocol, not too unlike tftp. it's very simple, designed for firmware uploads. it's also what atmel, stm, etc. generally use.
<wpwrak>
i haven't made a loader for the kl25 just yet, but more or less all the code for it is around from ben-wpan
<wpwrak>
e.g., the new y-box will get a dfu loader
<wpwrak>
(scope) if you want rock bottom pricing, a rigol ds1052e or ds1102e will be a good choice (USD 329-399)
<wpwrak>
if you can spend a little more, i'd go for the ds1074z (usd 585). it has four channels, which will be very handy at times. and some other advanced features as well. probably has the best price/performance ratio in today's market.
<nicksydney>
wpwrak: i think that price range is suitable for someone like me :)
<nicksydney>
($585) if i have to spend this much then i will need at least 4-5 months to save first :)
<wpwrak>
tell the wife to go easy on the shoes for a while ;-)
<wpwrak>
(cost living) probably all the glue ... the glue you need that you don't fall off the earth :)
<whitequark>
dfu-util++
<nicksydney>
so in order to 'download' to the device the device must be running an 'app' or 'daemon' that is listening to USB ?
<wpwrak>
yes, it must run either the dfu loader or a usb stack that can switch to the dfu loader
<whitequark>
it needs a stub in the application which would transfer it to DFU mode, and a DFU bootloader
<whitequark>
usually the loader is separate to make it more robust
<wpwrak>
what i do is that i run a dfu-only boot loader first for maybe 2 seconds.if nobody tries to talk to it, then it jumps to the application
<wpwrak>
that way, if the application is broken, you can still dfu
<wpwrak>
you can see the whole architecture in ben-wpan/atusb/fw/
<nicksydney>
wpwrak: thanks will read it
<wpwrak>
note that boot loader and application are really two separate programs, although they share a lot of code
<nicksydney>
understood :)
<whitequark>
HAHAHAHAHA
<whitequark>
this chinese power supply has an excellent manual
<whitequark>
quoting: " power supply are not allow at full load state for long time. control your utilization rate of less than 60%, or they may cause human early failure"
<wpwrak>
reminds me a bit of the owner's manual of the alfa romeo i had in switzerland. it said something like "do not drive at excessive speed for prolonged time"
<wpwrak>
i have to admit that the car, small as it was, was perfectly capable of doing just that :)
<whitequark>
the box has really creative packaging
<roh>
whitequark: i once had a manual which sayd something like 'if there is conflict between reality and manual, please give priority to reality'
<whitequark>
they take polyethylene packages and inflate them with polyurethane assembly foam
<whitequark>
roh: hehehe. that's some good advice, you must admit!
<wpwrak>
roh: that's what you get when you hire philosophy students for your documentation department ;-)
<roh>
i found that really sane. compared to other manuals.
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<whitequark>
hrm. some assembly required
<whitequark>
instructions for assembly... not included?
<whitequark>
except maybe they're on the CD-R. CD-R, LPT, PRC is certainly not on a forefront of technological innovation
<whitequark>
do I even have anything to read it with.
<whitequark>
"comes with a two year warranty" now that's neat!
<whitequark>
I actually know what this reminds me about. USSR. sturdy, absolutely massive (both literally and figuratively) machinery with solid repairability and "some assembly requirements"
<whitequark>
it even looks that way
<whitequark>
well, it's not really surprising
<whitequark>
lol no. the CD only includes a pirated version of MACH3 CNC control software
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<whitequark>
... fuck.
<whitequark>
the control block is rated 110-120VAC.
* whitequark
sighs
<wpwrak>
it runs directly off mains ?
<larsc>
nothing you can't slove with a bunch of copper wire and two sticks ;)
<whitequark>
well, it includes the stepper drivers
<whitequark>
s
<whitequark>
and looking at how they're still with LPT, I have this suspicion they haven't discovered switch-mode power supplies yet
<wpwrak>
do they already use valves ? or is it still relays ? :)
<whitequark>
haven't disassembled it yet
<whitequark>
yeah, it contains an enormous transformer. input; 110V 50HZ; output: 18V white 36V yellow
<whitequark>
and it is truly enormous, the damn thing weights, I think, about 3kg
<whitequark>
yeah, 3100 g
<wpwrak>
now you need another 3 kg 220 V to 110 V transformer ;-)
<whitequark>
yeah I'll try to find one. might be tricky.
<wpwrak>
really ?
<whitequark>
I'll also contact the vendor, they seem to present themselves as extremely helpful. time to check that!
<whitequark>
(tricky) yeah, why would people want such transformers?
<whitequark>
99% of electronics already supports 110-240V, because they're not living in the damn 19th century
<whitequark>
and the rest is localized and sold in variants
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: you finally received your CNC?
<wpwrak>
still. there's always the odd 110 V item. even modern products.
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: yeah
<whitequark>
and it's rated 110V :/
<whitequark>
and it has a fucking transformer
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<whitequark>
I *thought* they would include a switch-mode supply, but noooooo, of course not!
<wpwrak>
would you have preferred resistors ? :-)
<whitequark>
lol
<DocScrutinizer05>
check transformer, it may have a 220V setting
<whitequark>
no, already disassembled it. clearly rated as 110V only on the label
<DocScrutinizer05>
dang!
<wpwrak>
maybe there's a 9 V output ? then you could apply chinese pragmatism :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
you are in for a 220->110 converter then
<whitequark>
(9V output) nah
<whitequark>
thought about it already ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
find any 220V transformer that consists of 2 times 110V primary coils
<DocScrutinizer05>
and is heavy enough
<whitequark>
welp, I don't really collect antique power supplies
<whitequark>
anything I might have is strictly switch-mode
<DocScrutinizer05>
connect it o--110V-^-110V-^-o
<whitequark>
I have one adjustable power supply, but this thing needs 36V and 18V
<DocScrutinizer05>
where "o" are your 220V mains, and "^" is your CNC
<whitequark>
and this one only goes up to 27V anyway
<whitequark>
yeah I understand how transformers work :p
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
this is a special way though
<wpwrak>
in the good old days, you'd just have connected it to 220 V or whatever, and it would have worked :)
<whitequark>
by the way, the insides have some veeeery interesting exposed and labeled pads
<DocScrutinizer05>
what usually isn't considered though: each transformer with more than one primary coil can get used as a autotransformer. Actually since there's no difference between priimary and secondary coils you can use every transformer as a autotransformer ;-)
<whitequark>
ok, asked the vendor for the 220V control box. let's wait...
<DocScrutinizer05>
you're sure the transformer has no 220V tap?
<whitequark>
well, it's tightly wrapped in some plastic crap, and there aren't any unconnected wires
<whitequark>
I'd rather not unwrap it
<DocScrutinizer05>
no wires -> no tap
<DocScrutinizer05>
a pity
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess the priimary coil isn't built to cope with 220V and you simply use a different secondary voltage/tap
<whitequark>
likely
<DocScrutinizer05>
fools
<DocScrutinizer05>
I bet they will offer to send you a 220->110 converter
<DocScrutinizer05>
or refund you for purchasing one
<whitequark>
either one is fine for me
<DocScrutinizer05>
asia?
<whitequark>
they send from US, but, yeah, china
<DocScrutinizer05>
then they for sure don't want you to send back the wrong controlbox
<whitequark>
that would be bloody expensive, shipping back 3kg of metal
<whitequark>
I've spent almost half of the cost of the CNC getting it to russia
<DocScrutinizer05>
get a autotransformer from next surplus store, and offer them to pay a refund
<DocScrutinizer05>
such transformer converter is useful for other stuff as well
<DocScrutinizer05>
;-)
<whitequark>
well, I have a bunch of other stuff with 110V plug, but you see, I just pop it into my 220V mains and it works
<whitequark>
because switchmode supplies are so. fucking. awesome.
<DocScrutinizer05>
and the heck, Russia for sure has the best most rugged converter transformers you could possibly find in this universe
<whitequark>
there's basically three options for that
<whitequark>
1) LATR, laboratory autotransformer. kinda expensive and I don't really need adjustable output voltage
<whitequark>
altohugh maybe I could find some other use for it...
<whitequark>
2) antique soviet transformers. I'm sure they were fine when they were first made, but I'm wary of buying 40+ year old stuff stored in unknown conditions (likely just outside in the cold, at least for some time) and plugging it into mains
<whitequark>
3) some new ones. also expensive and there isn't a lot of options.
<DocScrutinizer05>
no worries, transformers are a rare case of "lasts forever"
<DocScrutinizer05>
the app pings the camera somehow
<whitequark>
mhm
<DocScrutinizer05>
or opens a port and listens, at least
<whitequark>
pc_autosave thing is the PC one?
<whitequark>
well, dumb question
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep, I guess
<whitequark>
ok, I'll check in a virtualbox
<DocScrutinizer05>
when I start "wireless" on camera, it tells me to "start app on PC!"
<DocScrutinizer05>
camera acts as a AP
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-o
<DocScrutinizer05>
I made it "connect" to another AP nevertheless, so in some cases it seems to act as wlan client
<DocScrutinizer05>
but it doesn't talk
<DocScrutinizer05>
neither does it show up in DHCP
<DocScrutinizer05>
so I guess the damn PC-app is semding a broacast
<DocScrutinizer05>
I bet once it got associated and has an IP, I can talk pictbridge or even ftp to it
<DocScrutinizer05>
I have no WLAN stick for my PC, otherwise I'd fire it up and snoop on it with wireshark or even airodump
<DocScrutinizer05>
aunt google knows shit about XQ1 WLAN protocol
<DocScrutinizer05>
my N900 detected AP as "Fuji-XQ1" AP without any encryption
<whitequark>
iw phy phy0 interface add mon0 type monitor
<whitequark>
wireshark -i mon0
<whitequark>
that's all you need
<DocScrutinizer05>
"Fuji-XQ1" been the name I assigned to the cam in on-board menu before
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: you're talking in tongues to me
<whitequark>
that's a command to create a monitor interface for an existing wlan phy
<DocScrutinizer05>
you think I could monitor the traffic on router's WLAN from my PC?
<whitequark>
if you have a wifi stick in it, yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
my PC *has* *no* WLAN
<whitequark>
yes, I just seen you metnion airodump
<whitequark>
and airodump is silly and I hate it, all it does is the iw command above
<whitequark>
that's all
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-01-24 22:54:30] <DocScrutinizer05> I have no WLAN stick for my PC, otherwise I'd fire it up and snoop on it with wireshark or even airodump
<whitequark>
I just spent some hours figuring out how to invoke iw properly to add a monitor iface
<whitequark>
btw
<whitequark>
what's on your router?
<whitequark>
mine has openwrt
<whitequark>
so, yeah, would be totally possible to snoop on wlan
<DocScrutinizer05>
dd-wrt
<whitequark>
should be possible as well
<whitequark>
it either has a mon0 iface or you can create it with the command above
<DocScrutinizer05>
thanks for the tip about iw monitor
<whitequark>
then tcpdump it
<whitequark>
tcpdump is one hell of deceptively named software
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod:
<DocScrutinizer05>
but that shell (and /bin/*) on that dd-wrt is a PITA
<whitequark>
well, coreutils weigh how much, 50MB?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I bet such stuff like tcpdump is pretty totally unknown to it
<whitequark>
hard to put on a 4MB squashfs
<DocScrutinizer05>
you think I can install them, from the errrr pinkpony-repo?
<whitequark>
(tcpdump) yep, busybox doesn't have a tcpdump, it's an external package
<whitequark>
in openwrt it's in the official repo
<whitequark>
dunno about ddwrt, but it seems like an obvious tool to provide
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't even know of *any* repo to install additional stuff on that router
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, that camera has a diabolic potential to waste my time on totally irrelevant stuff
<DocScrutinizer05>
ssh: connect to host 192.168.4.1 port 22: Connection refused
<DocScrutinizer05>
saturn:/ # telnet 192.168.4.1
<DocScrutinizer05>
Trying 192.168.4.1...
<DocScrutinizer05>
telnet: connect to address 192.168.4.1: Connection refused
<DocScrutinizer05>
I seem to recall I made it to telnet to the router previously
<whitequark>
log in through the web interface and upload your ssh key
<DocScrutinizer05>
some year and a half ago
<DocScrutinizer05>
nah, I'm not too eager to mess with this damn router now
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'll rather use my CF-27 anti-tank-mine to connect to the XQ1 directly
<whitequark>
lol
<whitequark>
oh, not a literal anti-tank mine
<whitequark>
wouldn't be too surprised
<DocScrutinizer05>
TankBomb err ToughBook
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's in 24/7 standbay in some closet, waiting to get unplugged from power supply and resumed
<DocScrutinizer05>
in case somebody throws a real bomb
<DocScrutinizer05>
(which reminds me about the missing SIM in the 2G modem of that laptop)
<whitequark>
grab money, papers, toughbook, run ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
sth like that, yep
<whitequark>
you're living in germany. not libya. no?
<DocScrutinizer05>
the toughbook is an excellent weapon
<DocScrutinizer05>
catches bullets, crashes through everything you swing it against
<DocScrutinizer05>
you can sit on it
<DocScrutinizer05>
and even use it to communicate
<whitequark>
hehe
<DocScrutinizer05>
or watch maps etc
<whitequark>
ok, your fujicrap downloaded to my vm
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-D \o/
<whitequark>
ugh, .NET framework
<DocScrutinizer05>
thought as much
<DocScrutinizer05>
for sure fujiCRAP
<whitequark>
.NET is not exactly bad, I mean, C# is a nice language if you have to use windows
<whitequark>
but my VM is winxp and doesn't have any of the frameworks installed
<whitequark>
so now I'm stuck downloading even more crap
<DocScrutinizer05>
see, this whole stuff is poisonous
<DocScrutinizer05>
toxic
<whitequark>
no traffic generated
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess if we could come up with a sane solution allowing to download pictures from the XQ1 via WLAN (maybe even use the "instant download to PC" function that's supposed to transfer each shot instantaneously to the PC after shooting), we could even *sell* that
<whitequark>
can you connect the camera to AP?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, seems like I can
<whitequark>
see, if the camera generates broadcast packets, you can watch them from your PC
<whitequark>
precisely because they're broadcast
<whitequark>
and now we know PC doesn't emit anything
<DocScrutinizer05>
there's the "PC download" mode that's supposed to do that
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, will fire up wireshark to see if any broadcast inbound
<whitequark>
oooh a wild guess
<whitequark>
it uses SMB
<whitequark>
see, the connection screen displays the SMB hostname of the PC
<whitequark>
and SMB does the broadcast thing
<whitequark>
you might be able to set it up with samba
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<DocScrutinizer05>
hmmmm
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<DocScrutinizer05>
ok, UDP from 192.168.4.20 to 192.168.4.255: >>DISCOVER * HTTP/1.1\\\MX:3\\\HOST:192.168.4.255:\\\DSCADDR:192.168.4.20\\\SERVICE:PCAUTOSAVE/1.0<<