<wolfspraul>
how could this project relate with Milkymist?
<kristianpaul>
well, i just see another SoC coming,so is an alternative, but in early state still it seems
<phr>
i don't understand why moxie.  doesn't opencores.org have lots of those?
<blogic>
wpwrak: ping
<wpwrak>
blogic: phew. back home from dinner with quite a lot of beer. let's see how useful i'm now :)
<blogic>
haha
<blogic>
wpwrak: the story goes like this ... i was contatced by some old friends that are playing with 802.15.4. the aim is to integrate it in owrt and build some demo apps
<wpwrak>
blogic: do you have any specific hardware in mind ?
<blogic>
i saw that there are patches sent upstream to support the 802.15.4 inside the kernel and then went on to find hw
<blogic>
yes, that is where you come into the play :)
<wpwrak>
hehe :) we have the finest hardware :)
<blogic>
i browsed around and saw the nanonote has the wpan dongle
<blogic>
so i ma told
<blogic>
anyhow i know mirco and lars quite well and the pinted me your way
<blogic>
*pointed
<wpwrak>
(well, actually we don't. but that's a good marketing message nevertheless. and the other may be harder to put to use than ours anyway :)
<blogic>
hehe
<blogic>
is the dongle already on sale ?
<blogic>
i saw some pics i think on your web site of a large batch of pcbs
<wpwrak>
yup. both - the one for the ben and the one for usb
<blogic>
got a link ?
<wpwrak>
not a lot have been made, but i think tuxbrain would be more than happy to tell the fab to produce some more
<blogic>
ok
<blogic>
do you know whom at tuxbrain i oculd contact ?
<paroneayea>
wolfspraul: I missed your welcome, but thanks :)
<wolfspraul>
no problem, of course
<wolfspraul>
happy to see you here
<paroneayea>
linuxperv is also a pretty great person who does a bit of stuff in the maker / electronics space and was getting interested in the milky mist
<paroneayea>
her joining was a reminder that I should probably join this channel also :)
<wolfspraul>
nice - any links to linuxperv's projects or areas of interest?
<wpwrak>
"unixsluts.com" nice ;-)
<linuxperv>
oh hi
<linuxperv>
no i don't have much on the web and don't do anything too exciting ;p
<methril_work>
i remember you did a sw for the 3D scan of the Ben case, isn`t it?
<wpwrak>
(openscad) yes, i experimented a bit with it. i like the approach, the speed at which it works, and also the "IDE"
<wpwrak>
what i don't like about it is the still very limited set of functions, the rendering artefacts in the "quick preview", and the poor handling of ambiguities in the model
<wpwrak>
i didn't make software for the actual scanning, but i made a tool for bringing a top and a bottom scan into alignment
<LunaVorax>
Damn I'm angry at Apple
<LunaVorax>
iOS 5 looks so cool with it's voice recognition that understand what you mean
<LunaVorax>
Why don't I have the same thing under Linux ?
<LunaVorax>
It would be like the future is now :P
<Ayla>
because at Apple, they're paid
<LunaVorax>
Aren't Linux developers paid also ?
<Ayla>
5% of them, maybe
<LunaVorax>
Hum
<LunaVorax>
Just a moment
<LunaVorax>
I've read an article about that some time ago
<mth>
which also explains why the desktop is in a relatively poor shape
<LunaVorax>
Yep I made a misconseption
<LunaVorax>
It really is a shame imho
<Ayla>
and that also explains why I feel Android is so great :D
<LunaVorax>
Android sucks
<LunaVorax>
(imo)
<mth>
at least with Linux you can run apps that are not signed; iOS won't let you do that
<LunaVorax>
Yeah... But Java, seriously ?
<LunaVorax>
On a phone ?
<mth>
Java has been running on phones for ages: J2ME
<mth>
the main problem with J2ME was that all phones had different bugs
<Ayla>
what's wrong with Java?
<LunaVorax>
Yeah and therefore been criticized for ages
<LunaVorax>
Virtual machines
<LunaVorax>
That's the whole problem
<LunaVorax>
I have yet to experience a non-sluggy Java application
<LunaVorax>
I'm not joking
<Ayla>
the problem is not Java or virtual machines
<Ayla>
the problem is how those Java apps are coded
<LunaVorax>
Java have his part in the process
<LunaVorax>
As well as some other languages have other problems
<LunaVorax>
I just happen to hate Java more than the others
<LunaVorax>
(maybe not as much as C# though)
<Ayla>
Sorry, I disagree.
<Ayla>
and Android's virtual machine seems to be quite good
<wpwrak>
LunaVorax: you anger is good. the more you hate a problem, the more likely you are to solve it :-)
<LunaVorax>
Hahaha
<LunaVorax>
Probably not, I don't use to be a smart person.
<LunaVorax>
wpwrak, but I would just head down on similar software for the Nanonote :P
<wpwrak>
no, really. the motivation for almost anything that is done well is some deep discomfort with the status quo ante
<LunaVorax>
Oh I see
<LunaVorax>
wpwrak, an unrealted serious question
<LunaVorax>
Is wanting to work at Qi a good goal in like ?
<wpwrak>
what you need is what is called "an itch to scratch". something that fills you with an irresistible desire to solve the problem
<wpwrak>
there is not much of "working at qi". qi is just some 3-4 people, not a big company
<LunaVorax>
That's what I wanted to know in fact
<LunaVorax>
If in some future there could be some place
<wpwrak>
but doing the kind of work that's happening here, be it for qi or in some other way, seems very reasonable goal to me
<LunaVorax>
Ok so I'm on the right road already
<LunaVorax>
A long one but still the good one
<wpwrak>
i don't know if qi will ever be a big employer. but the movement is not limited to qi.
<LunaVorax>
Maybe it needs a big income boom to think about it
<Ayla>
do you guys use Dosbox on your nanonote?
<wpwrak>
of course, having more money will help to move things forward
<Ayla>
and if so, are you using Slaaneesh's statically linked and closed source port?
<LunaVorax>
I tried to and I failed Ayla it seems to have some troubles with the screen res
<Ayla>
yes, same here, on dingoo ...
<wpwrak>
Ayla: me, no. gave up on DOS some 20 years ago :)
<LunaVorax>
Ayla, indeed :)
<Ayla>
it wants to use a 640x400 screen resolution
<Ayla>
wpwrak: what about your "msdos" driver then? :p
<wpwrak>
1992 ;-)
<Ayla>
fair enough :)
<wpwrak>
and i didn't need DOS for it ;-)
<LunaVorax>
wpwrak, I think Qi needs better advertisment but it's kind of hard since Qi's product aren't really for "everyone" for now (exemple, I don't really see my brother buying a Nanonote)
<Ayla>
you must be old
<Ayla>
I bet you have a big beard
<wpwrak>
LunaVorax: oh yeah, advertizing is weak.
<LunaVorax>
Beware, MS-DOS fanboys still exist
<Ayla>
like every linux guru
<wpwrak>
Ayla: naw, i shave almost each time i crawl out of my cave
<LunaVorax>
Linus doesn't have a beard
<Ayla>
and I get laid everytime I reboot my linux computer
<wpwrak>
considering that linux needs rebooting almost never, i kinda feel sorry for you :)
<Ayla>
and do you actually crawl out of your cave from time to time? :p
<LunaVorax>
wpwrak, don't even reboot when you recompile the kernel ? :o
<Ayla>
maybe he uses kexec
<LunaVorax>
Oh, I don't know that
<LunaVorax>
...yet
<wpwrak>
Ayla: oh yes, often enough to make the unbearding experience not too dreadful :)
<Ayla>
ok :)
<wpwrak>
Ayla: (kexec) i actually like clean reboots, at least during development. but yes, being one of the kexec lobbyists, that would indeed be a choice :)
<Ayla>
about kexec
<Ayla>
I've been working on a bootloader for the JZ4740
<Ayla>
the goal is to have a small (< 8k) bootloader which can then load a linux kernel from a UBI drive
<Ayla>
or better, to launch kexecboot
<Ayla>
I thought you'd like to hear about that
<whitequark>
does anyone possibly know a place where one could talk with an experienced USB developer?
<whitequark>
I'm trying to de-proprietarize an h.264 HD webcam
<steve|m>
whitequark: you could pm 'CareBear\' (Peter Stuge, one of the libusb/coreboot devs)
<whitequark>
steve|m: thanks!
<steve|m>
but sniffing what the windows driver does and then trying to replay it with a small libusb-application and see what happens is a good start
<whitequark>
steve|m: O
<whitequark>
oops
<whitequark>
I'm currently doing that, but it does several hundreds of control transfers at init
<whitequark>
(I'm sniffing WinXP machine under virtualbox, by the way)
<whitequark>
I am able to capture a valid H.264 stream from the webcam, but it has one weird property
<whitequark>
each frame is compressed to ~12K (yes, kilobytes) of data
<whitequark>
they contain a very distorted, but actual image
<steve|m>
hmm.. some sort of RLE?
<whitequark>
steve|m: nope
<whitequark>
it's h.264
<whitequark>
but compressed with a ratio of maybe 99%
<whitequark>
there are 7 extension units defined in this camera, of which 4 are also present on non-h264-capable ones (checked by googling up lsusb -v's)
<whitequark>
so, other three (which are only defined on my exact webcam) somehow tune the encoder
<whitequark>
they contain a total of 19 vendor-specific controls.
<steve|m>
does the h264 data you captured on windows have the same properties?
<whitequark>
steve|m: well. the only app known to capture h264 from this camera is Skype (it's skypecam, moreover, it is originally intended for use with skype TVs), and it crashes on my VM by some reason
<whitequark>
but it is known to work on a real machine
<whitequark>
I cannot capture h264, however, as only Skype knows how to handle this webcam
<steve|m>
ah okay.. so it can't be used as a WDM camera device on windows?
<whitequark>
it's a valid UVC cam
<whitequark>
it supports MJPEG, YUYV and H264
<whitequark>
mjpeg and yuyv work perfectly on both windows & linux
<steve|m>
I see, so only h264 doesn
<whitequark>
Windows itself does not even try to initialize h264 stream, as that is an extension or something like that
<steve|m>
't work..
<whitequark>
well.
<whitequark>
there is a standard on H264, but it is broken
<whitequark>
so they just took the way MPEG streams are presented, changed first four bytes (they're fourcc by convention) in GUID to H264
<steve|m>
maybe the ffmpeg/vlc guys could help you
<whitequark>
and that's it -- now they have an "h264" webcam
<whitequark>
the problem isn't with the stream, actually
<whitequark>
it's with the way to tell the camera to compress the stream with a given ratio
<whitequark>
stream is fine, it can be played by mplayer e.g.
<whitequark>
I just concatenate all the frames and that's it
<whitequark>
I should somehow snoop the URBs which are setting XU parameters on Windows, but to date I'm unable to filter them from all the requests stream
<steve|m>
which tool are you using? device monitoring studio?
<mth>
is it possible the H.264 encoder has a configurable maximum bitrate and it's set extremely low by default?
<whitequark>
currently I start WinXP in virtualbox, load usbmon module on Linux host and launch wireshark there
<whitequark>
mth: that's it
<whitequark>
I think it is exactly the problem
<steve|m>
ah yes, wireshark
<whitequark>
now I "just" need to determine which of the 19 (at least) vendor-specific parameters with an unknown type control that.
<mth>
can you selectively block them between the VM and the hardware?
<whitequark>
mth: I think no. EHCI controller in VirtualBox is a blob
<mth>
and between VB and Linux? is there only monitoring there or also filtering?
<whitequark>
only monitoring, VB uses a kernel module to forward requests
<mth>
ah, that's a pain
<whitequark>
steve|m: so, Device Monitoring Studio is an analogue of usbmon+wireshark for Windows?
<whitequark>
mth: even if there were some filtering capabilities, I am still unable to determine which requests go to XUs
<whitequark>
there are over 800 of them in the init sequence. I'll get mad knocking them off one by one
<mth>
not one by one, ideally you should be able to filter out about half
<steve|m>
whitequark: yes
<mth>
is there a client setting for image quality maybe that changes the max bitrate?
<mth>
I mean, if they go through the trouble of making it configurable, I'd expect there could be a way to change the value at runtime
<whitequark>
mth: it is adjusted by Skype automatically according to network conditions
<whitequark>
that may be exploitable, yes
<whitequark>
even funnier, Skype actually has a nice spec for encoding webcams on their site
<whitequark>
of course, my one is not even nearly conformant
<mth>
can you do record and playback of the full init sequence?
<mth>
if so, you could also stop halfway and check if the bitrate config was already applied
<whitequark>
mth: I don't think there is an easy way (i.e. not manual) of replaying a recorded usbmon dump
<whitequark>
steve|m: that looks affordable. I think my employer may get it for me.
<whitequark>
okay, thanks for the suggestions. I'll try these tomorrow