<wolfspraul>
actually I don't know how boom can generate a shopping list for multiple distributors
<wolfspraul>
right now it only displays one list, and the p/n are digikey numbers
<adamwang>
the P1 I calculated is 6.05mm AT MOST. So we should can use 3M low profle
<wolfspraul>
so you will get this from mouser?
<adamwang>
i know, this P2 temporarily we may pick from other distributer
<wolfspraul>
how about the jtag (7*2) connector?
<wolfspraul>
also mouser, or that one digikey?
<adamwang>
can use that one in Digi-Key (79109-1006)
<adamwang>
of course if later we found omst of shipping list can buy from mouser, then we buy from mouser.
<adamwang>
right now , i don't know. i just tried to find the parts I am worrying first.
<wolfspraul>
yes sure
<adamwang>
other electronic parts should be ok.
<adamwang>
how do you think?
<wolfspraul>
I can discuss with wpwrak how we can extend boom to multiple distributors (it's already possible, just needs a bit of work at the surface)
<wolfspraul>
yes sure, all good
<wolfspraul>
only keep us posted for any differences from the shopping list boom generates right now
<adamwang>
let me first review all parts done in shopping list and memo the new links I found first.
<wolfspraul>
so for everything on that list that you actually don't buy, or buy in another quantity, or from another source, I would like to update boom
<wolfspraul>
but you should definitely move ahead and just get these things produced
<wolfspraul>
boom has to be able to handle reality :-)
<wolfspraul>
so no waiting
<adamwang>
yes..i just recorded on my BOOKSHELF first then we determine later...
<wolfspraul>
those connectors will always need to be matched manually anyway, I'm sure. that's not worth trying to automate in boom.
<wolfspraul>
good, yes
<adamwang>
cu
<wolfspraul>
[bookshelf]
<adamwang>
wpwrak, wolfspraul when i use 'dsv' to review bookshelf, the bookshelf itself only shows few components(or just classify simply already).
<adamwang>
from bookshelf it seems that I can not sure for example resistors or capacitors will be missed? is it possible?
<adamwang>
because i can see the final 'make show' parts list with every part without doubting.
<wolfspraul>
that was too fast for me
<wolfspraul>
dsv and boom are two totally separate tools
<wolfspraul>
which one do you want to talk about - dsv or boom?
<wolfspraul>
adamwang: got disconnected...
<wolfspraul>
dsv and boom are 2 totally separate tools
<wolfspraul>
dsv works with BOOKSHELF, that's all
<wolfspraul>
adamwang: is your question about dsv or boom?
<adamwang>
i'm trying to understanding the system more. when I review footprint of 1206/0603/0402 package
<adamwang>
i have many ways can review: one from layout/or gerber file, one from shopping list (digi-key)backward to check if the part link is correct.
<adamwang>
so i am now from the shopping list backward to review actually footprints used in PCBnew.
<wolfspraul>
we should pull all links to PDF files into BOOKSHELF
<adamwang>
wow..damn it. current bookshelf itself doesn't have resistors and capacitors' pdf link.
<adamwang>
so you're saying i need to do this now?
<wolfspraul>
let's do one together
<wolfspraul>
which one are you looking at?
<wolfspraul>
it's not that bad :-) BOOKSHELF has 12 entries right now
<wolfspraul>
let's add one...
<wolfspraul>
for example the 33pF capacitor
<wolfspraul>
digikey p/n is 311-1020-1-ND, as shown by boom
<wolfspraul>
the dc-10 is slightly better too now, the one for bearstech was still glued :-)
<wolfspraul>
we have ordered adapters with US connector as well
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: another thing, I want to remove all usage of microSD, *SD* everywhere. we discussed a bit yesterday here, and our proposal is to call it 8:10 card
<wolfspraul>
8 pins, 10 mm (rounded)
<wolfspraul>
on the side we can say something like (*) microSD-like, but primarily we say 8:10 card first
<wolfspraul>
what do you think?
<lekernel>
I say "memory card"
<lekernel>
I've already removed usage of the "microSD" brand
<lekernel>
people will immediately understand "memory card", but "8:10 card" means nothing
<lekernel>
even in the source code it's called "memory card"
<wolfspraul>
both works for me
<wolfspraul>
ok good that is great, main point is to stop using the *SD* trademarks
<wolfspraul>
adamwang: did you see lekernel's feedback on the milkymist sticker?
<lekernel>
if we say "memory card reader that works with microSD cards", is that trademark infrigement?
<wolfspraul>
in such a sentence - probably not
<adamwang>
wolfspraul, ok with 4 pixels.
<wolfspraul>
but the risk is that our own people simplify this and write "microSD" everywhere
<wolfspraul>
that's why a new 'name', even if it is bulky like 8:10 card, helps align the home forces
<wolfspraul>
when speaking about 'our' side, the Milkymist One, the most we can say is that it is microSD-like
<wolfspraul>
in your sentence, you are describing that our 8:10 card holder happens to also work with microSD cards
<wolfspraul>
that shouldn't be a trademark infringement
<wolfspraul>
there is a line somewhere
<wolfspraul>
we don't want to dance around with this line too much
<wolfspraul>
the best is if microSD, or *SD*, just doesn't appear anywhere in our literature, web sites, etc.
<wolfspraul>
that's also the easiest to enforce and maintain
<wolfspraul>
he he
<wolfspraul>
maybe it's even better to say "memory card reader that might work with microSD cards"
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
we probably must not claim that we can guarantee compatibility
<lekernel>
sounds a bit too unprofessional
<wolfspraul>
because without license we have no access to the standard
<wolfspraul>
and without access to the standard we cannot claim compatibility
<lekernel>
there's the "simplified" standard available for free
<wolfspraul>
yes but you ask about my opinion. I'm not a lawyer but from past cases this is the kind of stuff you will hear from a lawyer.
<wolfspraul>
if you say "that works with microSD cards" - that may be too much already
<wolfspraul>
because you don't have access to the standard
<wolfspraul>
so how can you say that?
<lekernel>
"we tested it"?
<lekernel>
I don't really want to say "might work" either
<wolfspraul>
no I was kidding
<wolfspraul>
but I realized the standard and compatibility problem
<wolfspraul>
for example 'compatible' is a strong word
<wolfspraul>
we cannot use it
<wolfspraul>
we will be shut down legally
<wolfspraul>
you cannot say microSD compatible
<wolfspraul>
the most is microSD-like
<wolfspraul>
so I took that a little further to make it 'maybe' :-)
<lekernel>
"designed for microSD cards"?
<wolfspraul>
sounds very dangerous
<wolfspraul>
that's exactly what you cannot claim
<wolfspraul>
we can say that we bought a lot of cards, some of which claim to be microSD compatible
<wolfspraul>
our tests show that all of those cards work
<wolfspraul>
but you cannot say that you know that you are microSD compatible
<wolfspraul>
or that you 'support' microSD
<wolfspraul>
or that you 'have' microSD
<wpwrak>
good morning :) let's see what's in the backlog today ...
<wolfspraul>
afaik the maximum is microSD-like
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: sebastien is not very fond of our beautiful 8:10 card
<wolfspraul>
he wants to have a microSD card
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<lekernel>
yeah, or maybe not mention "microSD" at all
<wolfspraul>
(joking, joking...)
<wolfspraul>
of course that's the best
<lekernel>
and keep "memory card"
<wolfspraul>
fine by me, it's not a very central feature of Milkymist One anyway
<lekernel>
external people will eventually say "microSD" anyway
<wolfspraul>
fine
<wolfspraul>
we just need to keep ourselves clear from trademark infringement
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: the defense line goes like this:
<wolfspraul>
someone says "you need a SD HALA license"
<wolfspraul>
we say "no, we don't support any SD standard or protocol"
<wolfspraul>
they say "yes, you support microSD cards"
<wolfspraul>
"no, we don't"
<wolfspraul>
"but what is that connector there"
<wolfspraul>
"that's a 8:10 card holder"
<wolfspraul>
etc.
<wolfspraul>
it's difficult they have patents, copyrighted stuff, trademarks. but we need to start somewhere and staying clear of the trademarks is relatively easy.
<lekernel>
patents? besides the connector, there's nothing that's patentable (at least in EU)
<wpwrak>
(boom & multi-distro) yes, you can have multiple distributors. see gta02-core. you have to modify the output generator to see them, though. (in gta02-core, you have a different makefile target for each, but that's probably not the most elegang way)
<wpwrak>
(boom: count/ref) good idea. let me add it to my to do list :)
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: we seem to have a solution for now. We are purging *SD* everywhere. You say 'memory card', I say '8:10 card' when pressed or in tech specs, otherwise also memory card or flash memory card when explaining.
<wpwrak>
(usd/8:10 - claim compatibility) i don't see why a compatibility claim would be a problem. it's an assurance you make about your product. as long as you don't say it's certified ...
<wolfspraul>
no, 'compatible' is definitely no good
<wolfspraul>
that word has been 'taken' by the other side :-)
<wolfspraul>
we cannot claim compatibility unless sanctioned to do so by the other side
<wolfspraul>
we absolutely cannot claim microSD compatibility
<wpwrak>
("memory card" vs. "8:10") i think "memory card" works fine in MM1 "product documentation", for descriptive purposes, because there's only one card anyway. the 8:10 is more something we need to identify cards if there could be other possibilities.
<wpwrak>
("compatibility") ah, language is tricky ;-) i meant the "works with microSD" or maybe "use with", so you give the customer instructions, without making any explicit claims about your product
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: if you really want to take this to the end,  then have some "8:10 card" in your shop ;-)
<wpwrak>
lekernel: (card name) one problem is that any names that "sound familiar" are dangerous. it just sucks, no matter what you do.
<wolfspraul>
yes all sounds good, I think we are all on the same page
<wolfspraul>
let's see how it goes
<wpwrak>
now, the dreaded connectors ... what are the possible actions available ? replace any part with one with a fitting (let's avoid "compatible" :) footprint ? replace only some parts ? re-layout JTAG ? ...
<wpwrak>
(JTAG) the JTAG board i mean
<wolfspraul>
"use with microSD" might just be OK still, especially if it is in a larger explanatory text
<wolfspraul>
we have to stay away from saying that _OUR_ stuff is somehow *SD*, and we have to stay away from 'compatible', because that is understood to be a mutual thing
<wolfspraul>
for the rest, we do as discussed here, should be OK
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: no re-layout now, because we sent the gerbers out already
<wolfspraul>
the connectors need to be positioned without through-hole, or soldered manually
<wpwrak>
so which parts can be replaced with different ones ?
<wpwrak>
different but same-footprinted
<wpwrak>
(avoiding "compatible" is fun ;-)
<wpwrak>
"commensurate" is a good word :)
<wpwrak>
commensurate parts :)
<wolfspraul>
I think adamwang found solutions for the connectors already.
<wolfspraul>
I just want to make sure we keep updating the bom and bookshelf so our KiCad files are in great shape :-)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (8:10 card) you should post reason and proposed name on the list, perhaps also mentioning that in a reduced context like MM1 one can also use things like "memory card". then let's wait a few days. once the storm of indignation passes, we can start renaming the few references we already have
<lekernel>
there are no references to SD in milkymist afaik
<lekernel>
I used "memory card" everywhere
<wolfspraul>
what does the leaflet say?
<lekernel>
and no one said a thing btw :)
<lekernel>
memory card
<wolfspraul>
good
<wpwrak>
lekernel: "memory card" works well in the context of a specific product, because you already know that it has to be congruent with uSD
<wpwrak>
(hmm, all this avoiding of "compatibility" makes me wonder if some of the strange translations we get in the manuals of asian products may actually be intentional ;-)
<wpwrak>
lekernel: "memory card" wouldn't work when specifying/discussing a new design, where is may also be full-size SD, CF, memorystick, or maybe a DIMM.
<wpwrak>
lekernel: that is, unless you want to explain each time that it has to agree with uSD
<lekernel>
no big deal...
<lekernel>
see, it's about the first time I hear about this "problem" when there are already 46 milkymist boards out
<lekernel>
all using the "memory card" terminology
<wpwrak>
lekernel: the "problem" right now are more those 1000+ bens out there that proudly proclaim "microSD" on the case ;-)
<lekernel>
mh
<lekernel>
just rename it to "memory card", I'd say
<lekernel>
8:10 card really does mean nothing
<wpwrak>
it's a name that is descriptive yet hasn't been taken yet. so yes, it doesn't mean anything _yet_
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: the point of 8:10 card is that it means nothing
<wolfspraul>
this is not meant to force a re-education upon people
<wolfspraul>
it's a placeholder for some tech specs that will give us a clean legal shield against claims of trademark infringement
<wolfspraul>
and it's a good name. 8 pins, 10 mm. we can use it in other places later.
<wpwrak>
think of it like "the glass". if you're asking someone you're eating with to pass their glass, you won't bother to specify what the glass is like. if you go to a shop and are looking for one that matches your existing collection, you will use something more descriptive.
<wolfspraul>
of course we are not using 8:10 to explain anything
<wolfspraul>
so we are all on the same page I think
<wolfspraul>
memory card is fine, it's great
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: eventually, 8:10 will become a meaningful name by itself ;-)
<lekernel>
yeah, like GNU/Linux and Iceweasel...
<wolfspraul>
8:10 card is the fallback for places where we don't want to say memory card. how about that? :-)
<wolfspraul>
and for Milkymist One, we can probably say memory card almost everywhere, maybe everywhere.
<wpwrak>
just wait until places like amazon get so many customes asking for "8:10 cards" that they add them as a product category ;-))
<wolfspraul>
I think we are all on the same page actually.
<wpwrak>
hah, better example. "meat". at a barbecue, everybody will understand things like "is the meat ready ?". but you'd look rather foolish ordering "meat" at the butcher shop.
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: wpwrak works on a 8:10 card that has an Atmel RF IC on it. not quite a 'memory card'. but it wouldn't fit into the m1 board anyway... :-)
<zear>
well, aren't SD cards more or less a dominent card standard on the market?
<wolfspraul>
now we can test it!
<wolfspraul>
zear: we don't support SD
<zear>
you mean you support uSD instead?
<wolfspraul>
what is uSD? do you mean microSD?
<wolfspraul>
we don't support microSD either
<zear>
yes, i mean micro
<wolfspraul>
(sorry need to warn you, you are in a guinea pig test right now...)
<wolfspraul>
zear: no, we don't support microSD
<wolfspraul>
that's a proprietary standard we don't have access to
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: at least we're not "compatible". maybe we're "friendly" ? :)
<zear>
wolfspraul, i just want to say that here all the non-tech people call SD cards simply by "memory card"
<wolfspraul>
yes we are friendly to microSD, definitely
<wolfspraul>
great
<wolfspraul>
we support many memory cards
<zear>
since nobody used any other format
<wpwrak>
zear: your digital camera uses uSD ?
<wpwrak>
zear: like the Ben uses full-sized SD ? :)
<lekernel>
yeah, exactly, that's why the "memory card" term is good (for M1 at least, where I don't plan any other use of the card connector)
<zear>
wpwrak, yes, i use uSD for my digital camera
<wolfspraul>
argh
<wolfspraul>
Werner is raining on my parade
<wolfspraul>
I didn't see any of this.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: we're very supportive of memory cards ;-)
<wolfspraul>
I have never seen or heard about anything SD
<wolfspraul>
ahh
<wolfspraul>
good
<wolfspraul>
memory cards
<wolfspraul>
that I know
<lekernel>
though I'm not shocked of "wireless adapters" that plug into memory card connectors either
<lekernel>
SD means "secure digital", so it's not a good term anyway
<wpwrak>
lekernel: "wireless" is a good example for a term that's easily used in an overly generic way. e.g., it would be borderline fraud if you sold the ben-wpan card simply as a "wireless card"
<zear>
when you say "a floppy disk", nobody thinks about 8 inch ones, am i right?
<wpwrak>
SD = Synchronous Data ;-)
<zear>
the same way when you say "memory card" nobody thinks of anything else than SD family
<andres-calderon>
newcomer...  What is the problem with the uSD connector? legal issue?
<wpwrak>
zear: i remember the days where you had the choice of 5.25" and 3.5", HD and DD, nicely on the rack next to each other
<wpwrak>
andres-calderon: yes. the name "microSD" is protected (trademark)
<zear>
wpwrak, lucky you, i never had a chance to mount a floppy on linux :P
<wpwrak>
zear: "sd family". perhaps. but you still don't know which member of the family.
<andres-calderon>
ok, SDIO is protected  too?
<zear>
wpwrak, yes, but you have adapters
<wpwrak>
zear: i wrote some code in floppy.c ;-)
<zear>
wpwrak, nobody buys full SDs anymore, they usually sell microSD + fullSD adapters
<wpwrak>
zear: (adapters) like for putting that full-sized SD into your phone ? :)
<zear>
wpwrak, no, the other way out one ;)
<zear>
although i have such one
<wpwrak>
zear: you can still buy full-sizes SD pretty much everywhere
<zear>
wpwrak, they're mostly leftovers
<zear>
at least here
<wpwrak>
see what "memory card" you get at a sony shop ;-)
<zear>
i think they still sell that high speed fullSDHC for cameras, for any other task they sell microSDs
<zear>
wpwrak, why would you want to shop there? :D
<zear>
the last time i went there, i returned with the only sony bravia tv that wasn't linux based
<zear>
quite a disappointment
<wpwrak>
one criterion for the name is also that it has to be non-interactive. "a memory card" followed by "no, the other kind" is not an option.
<zear>
wpwrak, then call them "es-dee cards"
<wpwrak>
(tv without linux) see, that's what happens if you're not specific enough ;-)
<wpwrak>
i suggested 5D ;-)
<zear>
5D sounds great
<wpwrak>
the enemy lawyers would have feeding frenzy :)
<wpwrak>
s/have/have a/
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: exactly, 'secure digital' is a trademark, not a name
<zear>
why not call them "insecure digital" then
<wolfspraul>
andres-calderon: we call them 8:10 cards now
<wolfspraul>
8 pins, 10 mm (rounded)
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
ah no, not 'them'
<wolfspraul>
our cards _are_ 8:10 cards
<wolfspraul>
we don't know whether they are compatible with microSD or not
<andres-calderon>
where i can found  any  document to read about the uSD issue?
<wolfspraul>
andres-calderon: the issue is that 'Secure Digital' and anything *SD* is trademarked
<wolfspraul>
in addition they claim to hold patents, and copyrighted whatever
<zear>
wolfspraul, what about microMMC cards, are they different?
<zear>
in size/number of pins
<wolfspraul>
yes I think that's owned by someone else
<wolfspraul>
ah
<wolfspraul>
are you asking a legal or technical question?
<wolfspraul>
technically it's probably 'the same' :-)
<zear>
though i guess the driver can support them as well if they only can fit the slot
<wolfspraul>
legally it's not the same
<wolfspraul>
we are mostly talking about legal stuff here
<zear>
but 8:10 cards would point to two different things then ;)
<wpwrak>
microMMC has a different size. not sure about number of contacts/protocol
<wolfspraul>
as copyleft hardware, we try to make hardware that is as little dependant on such proprietary technology as possible
<wolfspraul>
otherwise the licensing requirements, even if Sharism Ltd. would sign the license, would perpetuate upon anybody making use of the copyleftness of our work
<wolfspraul>
so it would taint the copyleftness of our work
<wolfspraul>
hence we work on removing such taintedness
<zear>
btw wolfspraul, i remember you mentioning somewhere once that you guys had 2 or 3 cases of nn warranty replacement due to weird stuff happening on screen, am i right?
<wolfspraul>
yes
<zear>
because my nn seems to change the LCD colors when i move with the hinge
<wolfspraul>
not good :-)
<zear>
and i'd like to know what can be the problem
<zear>
mine is the pre-retail unit, so i have no warranty, and the make quality is probably worse as well ;)
<wolfspraul>
ideally it's just a problem with the fpc going into the mainboard
<wolfspraul>
then you could open that, reseat the fpc, and it would be stable again
<zear>
ah, sounds like something an unskilled person could do
<wolfspraul>
worse, it could be a problem with the soldering of the connector the fpc goes into, or on the other side (the side of the lcm), where the cable is soldered onto the pcb right away
<wolfspraul>
you have to be careful a little
<andres-calderon>
SDA sowed terror in the linux kernel community a  time ago.  But after reading the legal terms they found a simple solution: "we have not signed anything"
<wolfspraul>
have you ever opened your nanonote? taken off the plastic around and above the keyboard?
<zear>
wolfspraul, nope, never
<wolfspraul>
how bad is the color problem?
<wolfspraul>
if it's not very bad, maybe fix it when it gets worse
<wolfspraul>
we'll fix it, no worries
<zear>
wolfspraul, the colors are sort of reversed
<wolfspraul>
always?
<zear>
they're not mirror reversed, so black -> white
<zear>
it's more like what happens when you try to run on a different color depth
<zear>
and only in certain hinge positions
<zear>
and not always, but there's about 50% chance of this occuring when you open the case and move with the hinge
<wolfspraul>
first thing would be to try to reseat the fpc cable on the mainboard side
<zear>
my nanonote is still pristine, i wish i had skills to fiddle with it a bit
<zear>
like, to install that serial console chip i got from wpwrak via rafa
<zear>
unfortunatelly certain people forgot to take soldering tools with them for the jlime meeting, so they weren't able to install it into my nn ;P
<wpwrak>
zear: yeah. real pity that one.
<zear>
i'd love to play with the serial console, but as long as i don't find someone with hardcore soldering skills, that won't happen :(
<wpwrak>
zear: here's your chance to become a hardcore soldering man yourself ;-)
<zear>
nah, i already toasted my pc by resoldering a broken gamepad's cable and plugging it to the usb port
<zear>
i don't want to experiment with soldering anymore :D
<wpwrak>
zear: naw, don't worry. it's easy - and wolfgang likes to sell more bens ;-)
<zear>
;D
<zear>
only if he accepts 100 ubuntu 5.04 cds as currency :)
<zear>
i once ordered 212 of them, but managed to giveaway only 112
<wpwrak>
ah, the tragedy of the commons :)
<zear>
this was back in 2006 or something, people weren't used to linux yet
<wpwrak>
we live in very different timescales, it seems ;-)
<wpwrak>
if you had written 1996, maybe ...
<zear>
;P
<zear>
well, back then there were no netbooks and linux wasn't popular on mobile phones
<zear>
now most of the people i talk to heard of linux and are interested in getting free printed cds
<lekernel>
how does canonical get money, btw?
<viric>
in the firefox, in ubuntu, they put "client=ubuntu" in the google requests.
<zear>
shuttleworth is also a multimilionare
<lekernel>
viric: that's all?
<lekernel>
zear: yeah, but this won't last undefinitely (except maybe through the magic of "financial instruments")
<viric>
no idea :)
<lekernel>
and why did he create canonical as a commercial company, if the objective is to operate at a loss?
<zear>
lekernel, well, he was the second space tourist, if he's still a millionaire after that, he must have a nice money flow
<lekernel>
a non-profit organization would have been more appropriate
<lekernel>
well, afaik he got all of it by selling thawte to verisign
<lekernel>
that was a huge shot of cash, not really a flow
<wpwrak>
viric: maybe andres would like to work for the FBI. well, CIA in his case. i'm sure they're recruiting ;)
<andres-calderon>
viric: wow
<rxvt>
ok ive been looking for hours and i can not find a mico sd wifi card anywere, if anyone knows were i could buy one of these and could point me in the write direction it would be nice
<andres-calderon>
wpwrak: jeje
<andres-calderon>
That risk will always exist in open source SW model. But, we just can  imagine the nice collection of  backdoors, troyan, etc in the most popular closed OS
<andres-calderon>
the big brother also write code.
<wolfspraul>
andres-calderon: we need to jump into the kicad files too! :-)
<zrafa>
lekernel: if IIRC canonical offers IT linux services like red hat and others.. so they admin servers, do virtualization solutions, etc.. Nothing special I would say, the same like red hat, suse, ibm, hp.. etc etc.. If you ask them to put a pet shop for you they will do
<wolfspraul>
I was slowed down by some work on snapshots and server rescue stuff, but it's almost done now, then back to more the stuff at the surface...
<lekernel>
ah, yeah
<kristianpaul>
if i want remove or move files, later sync with git, should i do care of soemthing?
<kristianpaul>
or just git add as usual and he will realize new folder and deleted files?
<kristianpaul>
s/he/it
<wpwrak>
git rm  and  git mv  ?
<kristianpaul>
ahhh ;-)
<kristianpaul>
i'm a dumb with git :(
<qwebirc30669>
hi
<Textmode>
...30s?
<wpwrak>
ADHD ;-)
<wpwrak>
wonders if jlime has as much trouble with their menu system as openwrt has with gmenu2x ...
<kristianpaul>
i dont think so wpwrak
<kristianpaul>
well it run on X :)
<kristianpaul>
Xfdev**
<kristianpaul>
is at home today :)
<kristianpaul>
well comparative is not fair
<kristianpaul>
matchbox is not a menu
<kristianpaul>
and gmenu2x want to be more that a menu ;)
<wpwrak>
well, "launcher"
<kristianpaul>
ah yes
<wpwrak>
there seem to be a heck of a lot of very basic issues with gmenu2x. well, some may be just the result of an attempt to optimize for the last byte ...
<kristianpaul>
6Mb in ram is too much, for just a wallpeper and some icons
<Jay7>
latest is old mockup, now we have other outlook
<Jay7>
sorry, have no screenshots of new UI
<Jay7>
I should do some for site
<wpwrak>
thanks ! looks nice !
<kristianpaul>
looks good
<Jay7>
new UI is even better ;)
<kristianpaul>
And is avalible for nanonote as well? :D
<Jay7>
it should be
<Jay7>
I've just not tried
<kristianpaul>
thanks !!
<wpwrak>
kewl. i guess it tool some inspirations from the PS3 version ? as far as i remember, they were the first (several years ago)
<kristianpaul>
You can write to qi list
<Jay7>
it even was compiled last time iirc
<kristianpaul>
i'm sure you'll get beta testers (including me)
<wpwrak>
s/tool/took/
<Jay7>
wpwrak: thesing (Thomas Kunze iirc) is original developer
<Jay7>
may be it was inspired by PS3 something :)
<Jay7>
but kexecboot was written almost from scratch (except FB code was taken from psplash)
<Jay7>
now I've changed most part of that code to do UI faster
<Jay7>
but I have at least one bug there :)
<Jay7>
kristianpaul: I should try to run it on nanonote at least before :)
<kristianpaul>
Please :)
<Jay7>
well.. I'll try as soon as possible
<Jay7>
kristianpaul: what was your original problem about UI?
<Jay7>
some launcher for what?
<kristianpaul>
Currently owrt is used on default nanonote image
<kristianpaul>
inittab lanuch an app called gmenu2x, originally taken from dingox
<kristianpaul>
other xbusrt based device
<kristianpaul>
but gmenu2x well have some issues, one i'm afraid as i realized is that uses 6Mb of memory
<kristianpaul>
wich is a  LOT i think
<kristianpaul>
As far i know one of the nanonote sofware goals is fast boot
<kristianpaul>
that cold be achieve
<kristianpaul>
1: removing uboot and replace it by kexec
<kristianpaul>
2: replace current app launcher for one lighter and faster to run,
<kristianpaul>
the last one will be nice if support wallpaper and icons for each apps
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: before 1, you need some simple first-stage loader
<kristianpaul>
thats the original problem Jay7
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: true
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: why do you think that 6MB is a lot?.. which applications you want to run which needs those 6MB of ram+free ram?
<wpwrak>
zrafa: 6 MB is almost 20% of your memory :)
<zrafa>
wpwrak: yes, I know
<zrafa>
wpwrak: I want to know which applications people want to run using the ram
<wpwrak>
OpenOffice, of course ;-)
<Jay7>
well..
<zrafa>
I read all the time : it is slow and it eats a lot of ram.. but nobody seems to use the ram
<zrafa>
which something more than ls, top, moc, vim
<zrafa>
with something*
<wpwrak>
i saw someone mention allocation failures. was that with emacs ?
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: because is ~21% from our 28M ram memory :/
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: ??
<Jay7>
I can create some form of laucher from kexecboot
<Jay7>
it should be easy enough
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: wpwrak already told that, i dint notice it :)
<Jay7>
but I can start only from 1-5 Jan
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: and what wpwrak said does not answer the question
<Jay7>
so if you need something before - do it yourself ;)
<zrafa>
the main question is which application users want to run to use the whole ram
<kristianpaul>
i was afraid for that answer Jay7 ;-)
<Jay7>
we can use kexecboot as second-stage loader to run kernel from any available media
<kristianpaul>
Jay7: We thanks your help when you can :)
<Jay7>
then run some tool based on it to run apps
<Jay7>
interface will be almost the same :)
<Jay7>
kristianpaul: if Qi can pay me for that work, I'll do it faster ;)
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: (first stage) i was thiking a reduced/cuted/hacked uboot code..
<zrafa>
wpwrak: one answer could be : users want to run 1000 ls at the same time, 50 tops and 100 vim
<Jay7>
first stage loader should just load kernel from NAND
<Jay7>
all other thing will be done by kexecboot
<kristianpaul>
Jay7: (pay) dont know, but as if you can help us later will be nice, all we here are unpaid :)
<kristianpaul>
from qi
<Jay7>
kristianpaul: well, np :)
<kristianpaul>
i meant
<Jay7>
it was (semi-)joke :)
<zrafa>
"I will not but that house, the extra room is small".. okey, now tell me: "who will use that extra room?".. mmehhh.. "nobody.. but I will not buy that house, the extra room is small"
<zrafa>
:P
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: well i dont care too much for ram, but if i can get my menu faster that now, i will be happy guy  (and others as well i think, endusers??? :))
<Jay7>
so, I'll add this channel to znc and will hang here
<kristianpaul>
Wellcome then :)
<Jay7>
my working timezone is like CET :)
<kristianpaul>
Jay7: i'm adding #oe too to my irssi
<Jay7>
so, feel free to contact me :)
<wpwrak>
zrafa: naw, uselessly wasting memory is always bad. the sooner or later, there will be something that fails because of it. remember "640 kB is enough" ? :)
<Jay7>
kristianpaul: you can look at boot.cfg sample and try to imagine some config for apps launcher
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: (reduced u-boot) naw, u-boot is a mess. don't go there. i think lars already has some small loader.
<zrafa>
wpwrak: yes, I know, but I would not be so worry about those 6mb gmenu uses.. if nobody is going to use those 6MB yet I would try to complain with other kind of stuff :)
<Jay7>
multiple sections is needed here.. but I'll do the same for multiple kernels
<kristianpaul>
Jay7: hey looks  simple setup (from what i can read)
<Jay7>
yes, it is
<Jay7>
bad thing that current implementation is only for single kernel (single boot.cfg) per partition
<Jay7>
but multiple kernels per partitions (i.e. multiple sections inside boot.cfg) is also proposed work for CELF
<Jay7>
so I'll do this anyway..
<kristianpaul>
hmm the forth oriented CPU (J1), interesting aprouch, when talking about CPU oriented to certain programing language
<kristianpaul>
now wich program language to choose :) ?
<kristianpaul>
argg i still getting randon reading, i think i missed a verilog wire
<wpwrak>
i'd pick a cpu optimized for C ;-)
<kristianpaul>
FPGA can beat current CPU in that way i think, plus the reconfiguration stuff
<wpwrak>
you, switch from C to verilog :)
<kristianpaul>
well is not the same aprocuh (procedural vs cocurrent)
<wpwrak>
actually, once synthesis is opened. i wonder how long it would take for someone to come up with a C compiler that programs the FPGA
<kristianpaul>
I was pointing, ie, from you pick, C is the assemlby language
<kristianpaul>
but is hard, you dint program a FPGA at all
<kristianpaul>
just load a hardware model
<kristianpaul>
i still been hardware some how, you still needing the sofware logic glue
<kristianpaul>
mostly because the *soft* part
<wpwrak>
think of compilers for vector processors. they also need to split into vectorized and scalar part.
<kristianpaul>
Nice times are coming  :)
<wpwrak>
some cpus also have some very low-level run-time core. e.g., look at the propeller.
<wpwrak>
(or just any microcode)
<kristianpaul>
(vector processors) yummy :)
<kristianpaul>
parallax propeller, looks interesting, i dint knew it of it
<wpwrak>
it's an interesting concept. probably not really worth the trouble for real-life applications, though.
<Jay7>
kristianpaul: I remember some java-bytecode-compatible processors
<Jay7>
and I'm sure we can see .net-compatible in the future
<wpwrak>
are the java cpus any commercial success ?
<kristianpaul>
is java a sucess?
<kristianpaul>
no, are not  (cpu)
<kristianpaul>
commercially talking is hard to define sucess from techincal point of view
<Jay7>
wpwrak: seems no :)
<wpwrak>
Jay7: then i wouldn't hold my breath when it comes to .net cpus ;-)
<Jay7>
well.. there will be microsoft behind ;)
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: i suspect that, by the time the things are mature enough, regular cpus will have caught up with them :)
<wpwrak>
Jay7: well, M$ have a long history of "strategic" projects that are epic commercial disasters ;-)
<wpwrak>
e.g., Windows HPC anyone ? ;-)
<Jay7>
I hope this will one of that :)
<wpwrak>
i don't see how it could fail to be ;-)
<Madridman>
hi folks
<Madridman>
a question, what's the meaning of "qi" on the room's name?
<kristianpaul>
he now i read zeros, well better than randon :)
<wpwrak>
sounds a bit like my misadventures with the latest atusb board :-( the beast was happy enough to begin its first programming, but then failed the checksum and stubbornly refused any further updates
<wpwrak>
voltages look good. soldering looks good. no shorts i can see. very mysterious.
<wpwrak>
current consumption is perfect
<kristianpaul>
mcu issues?..
<wpwrak>
could be broken, yes. strange, though.
<wpwrak>
programmer works perfectly with a different kind of board. so it's really this critter that's having issues.
<wpwrak>
not a good day so far. the first board i made had an irreparable soldering problem (a solder bridge that didn't go away, no matter what i tried)
<wpwrak>
then i found that the ben had a ubifs corruption that prevented it from booting. so, a little detour with a full reflash.  (reflash_ben.sh works nicely, particularly when used in combination with idbg :)
<wpwrak>
and now the damn mcu won't flash :-(
<kristianpaul>
he
<kristianpaul>
i was reading an int, so make sense now !
<kristianpaul>
schar*
<kristianpaul>
good !
<kristianpaul>
now, time to dump to a file, lets see what option is better
<wpwrak>
which are the options ?
<kristianpaul>
as this need to be fast i tought:
<kristianpaul>
1: allocate some Mb of memory and dump to it, when finish , write to disk
<wpwrak>
that's what i'd do
<kristianpaul>
2: write to disk, wich is kind slow i think, i tough use memory flash 10:8, but tahts no recommended in SIE
<wpwrak>
2: no way :) it also adds stray delays and such, which will probably make you overrun your buffer
<kristianpaul>
oops :)
<wpwrak>
do you have an indication for buffer overruns ?
<kristianpaul>
ah...
<kristianpaul>
no
<wpwrak>
maybe add one. otherwise, you'll have no end of trouble with strangely incorrect data
<kristianpaul>
ok lets see how to do it :),
<kristianpaul>
btw are you using some indication for buffer overruns in atusd code? :D
<wpwrak>
worse yet, even if your data is perfectly good but something else is wrong, you'll always suspect the data :)
<wpwrak>
right now, a new frame would just overwrite the old one
<kristianpaul>
ah no dump
<kristianpaul>
you may consider one ! ;-)
<wpwrak>
there's the possibility of disabling the receiver until the frame has been received, though
<wpwrak>
dump ?
<kristianpaul>
data dump?
<kristianpaul>
( disabling the receiver) is that a question for me?
<wpwrak>
hmm ? when the chip has received the frame, it generates an interrupt. then i transfer the frame. if i'm too slow and a new frame is being received, it may overwrite the first one
<kristianpaul>
ah ok, nv last question :)
<wpwrak>
no, talking about atusd/atusb
<kristianpaul>
yes yes
<wpwrak>
i'll probably let the microcontroller do the first response to interrupts on atusb. otherwise, it'll just sit around lazily and get fat ;-)
<wpwrak>
on atusd, there's no mcu, do it's the ben who has to react
<wpwrak>
s/do/so/
<kristianpaul>
after all i can have a decent 8bit IO in SIE plus 13bits of addresing (multiplexing), just deleting the sram and adding some case staments
<kristianpaul>
simple :)
<wpwrak>
whatever you say ;-)
<kristianpaul>
between SIE and FPGA i mean—*
<kristianpaul>
s/SIE/Xbusrt
<wpwrak>
that's the part i understood. the rest sounds mysterious ;-)
<kristianpaul>
You have nice workspace bte, (white) all here is brown :)
<kristianpaul>
s/bte/btw
<kristianpaul>
wow there are really tiny resistors in nemesis
<kristianpaul>
s/resistors/pasive components
<kristianpaul>
do you glue it some way before reflow?
<kristianpaul>
s/do/did
<kristianpaul>
oh i can see a Ben naked board on the right botton corner :)
<wpwrak>
(workspace) all DIY :)
<wpwrak>
(reflow) soldered them manually, no reflow
<kristianpaul>
so how helped the hotplate?
<wpwrak>
if i did reflow, i wouldn't need to glue them. they don't move around too easily. but i think i need to make a stencil for proper reflow. just depositing solder paste with a syringe doesn't produce nice results.
<kristianpaul>
ah ok
<kristianpaul>
is nemesis the bad-mcu guy?
<wpwrak>
the hot plate heats the board to about 100 C. so when for melting the solder, i only need to overcome a temperature difference of about 70 K, not 150 K. for simple things, this doesn't make a big difference. but in this case, i have a lot of ground and a gazillion vias connecting both sides. the ground planes suck away the heat. so there are several trouble spots where a 270 C iron is difficult or insufficient.
<kristianpaul>
why nemesis have that green-like wire, is not enought the pcb atenna?
<wpwrak>
with the hot plate, these problems disppear :)
<wpwrak>
(wire) this is for the scope, to monitor the voltage :)
<wpwrak>
(nemesis) yup, that's the problem board
<wpwrak>
i'm now making two new boards. i hope they'll end up being better.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: i should actually integrate the iron into the table :) and while i'm at it, add also an area with under the table lighting, for aligning transfer sheets and such. ah well, so many ideas, so little time :)
<kristianpaul>
(270) wow which component needs that ?
<kristianpaul>
(integrate the iron into the table) good idea
<wpwrak>
270 C is my regular setting with lead-free solder. not sure how hot the thing really gets. the tip is quite worn, so it's probably colder.
<wolfspraul>
why do you use lead-free solder?
<kristianpaul>
less hot to apply no?
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: to give customs no excuse ;-)
<kristianpaul>
ahh
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: no, it's actually very inconvenient to work with. needs more heat and generally doesn't handle as well as leaded solder.
<wolfspraul>
manual rework is always exempt from RoHS
<wolfspraul>
just fyi
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: mechanical properties after soldering probably aren't so great either. e.g., i think it's more brittle. so things may break off under stress.
<wolfspraul>
there are many exceptions, but a simple claim of 'manual rework' is already enough
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: also without the "re" in "rework" ?
<wolfspraul>
I'm not aware of any country that would really go after every gram of lead. it's quite political, and the important idea is 'self-enforcement' and to start with the big amounts somewhere, the stuff that is handled by the machines...
<wpwrak>
interesting exemption. they're nicer than i would have thought.
<wolfspraul>
well I'm also not aware of anybody who would use that excuse and keep their machines running with leaded solder while claiming the rework thing.
<wolfspraul>
maybe people are more honest than thought, sometimes
<wolfspraul>
but for that reason, alsmost all rework people use leaded solder still, because apart from you I have never heard anyone saying lead-free is easier to work with
<wpwrak>
well, customs have to process the package either way, so if they feel bored, they may cause trouble. also, they don't know if this is really a unique piece or whether there's a million more to come, each shipped individually (like bens :)
<wolfspraul>
(ah sorry, I misread you)
<wolfspraul>
you also say it "doesn't handle as well as leaded solder"
<wpwrak>
yeah. it's a pain.
<wolfspraul>
no I doubt there is any such check ever
<wolfspraul>
you think too complicated again :-)
<wolfspraul>
RoHS is a great success, it was very effective. but that was _because_ the system was setup as a 'self enforcement' system, and with generous exceptions.
<wpwrak>
well, based on my experience with argentine customs, i expect the very worst
<wpwrak>
... and sometimes still get nasty surprises
<kristianpaul>
oh really?
<wolfspraul>
I highly doubt they will go after lead, but OK. every rework station in all of Asia uses leaded solder.
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: well, i didn't have issues with RoHS so far. but they had me twice with "seguridad electrica"
<wolfspraul>
that means there is a good chance, < 10 %, that somewhere on every piece of electronic that are a few spots of leaded solder
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: and they also hinted once that "PCB" could be a banned chemical
<kristianpaul>
ahh¡¡ (PCB)
<kristianpaul>
thats the top
<kristianpaul>
amazing
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: so bottom line, in my experience you can safely use leaded solder for your work, and still be rohs compliant.
<wolfspraul>
there are also exceptions for machine cleaning and such
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: so what would happen is that they'd hold it at customs. then i'd have to go to the airport, spend about half a day before i can hear what the issue is. then i could of course explain that pcb is the board and not the banned chemical. but they can of course simply reject this explanation.
<wolfspraul>
so when a factory switches between leaded and lead-free runs, they don't have to go crazy over the cleaning thing
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: (reject this explanation.) reasons? technically talking
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: then i could either take a certainly complex and expensive bureaucratic appeal process, or find out how much of a financial incentive they would require for changing their mind
<kristianpaul>
ha
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: no technical reasons. it's a plausible explanation. of course they know there's nothing wrong. but this way, they can improve their personal income.
<kristianpaul>
i hope i dont have to pass for that in colombia
<wolfspraul>
in my experience colombian customs is good
<kristianpaul>
(they can improve their personal income) Wellcome to South America :) !!
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (cleaning) nice. all this sounds amazingly reasonable. what happened ? did they exclude the politicians when they made those regulations ? :)
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: yeah ...
<kristianpaul>
:/
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: argentine customs are probably among the worst
<wpwrak>
well, i've heard good things said about russians/ex-USSR customs ...
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: I think they understood they are dealing with mass production.
<wolfspraul>
so even if you pull one out, of 10,000, and you find something, then what?
<wolfspraul>
so a top-down, fines, punishments, regulations to the last detail approach simply would not have worked
<wpwrak>
still, amazingly reasonable :)
<wolfspraul>
it needs to start on the other side, where the big machines are being operated
<wolfspraul>
focus on the x tons of solder first, not on reworks or all sorts of other small stuff happening in a real factory
<wolfspraul>
of course that removes the ability to deduct too much from an individual piece in front of you
<wpwrak>
oh, a system that has lots of traps is good for political purposes. e.g., you can enforce it mainly against unwanted foreign competitors
<wolfspraul>
but that was not the point, the point was to move mass-production away from leaded solder
<wpwrak>
collateral advantages :)
<wolfspraul>
so even if 1 piece in front of you is full of lead, that doesn't mean much in terms of RoHS, at least at the beginning
<wolfspraul>
so anyway
<wolfspraul>
you can relax about that in your home station, although the heating plate of course is very cool
<wolfspraul>
ah
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
hot
<wolfspraul>
it also helps with large chips, or when you have to work with hot air
<wolfspraul>
it helps to avoid cracks in the vias inside pcbs
<wpwrak>
i probably need it anyway even with lead. the problem there are the vast ground planes.
<wolfspraul>
sure, it's good
<wolfspraul>
I was just surprised when you said you use lead-free solder for reworks.
<wolfspraul>
that sounds like additional trouble/risk for no good
<wolfspraul>
nobody is doing that, afaik
<wpwrak>
all my vias are hand-made. so they're a little special :) one advantage of the process is that they won't crack. (it's a solid wire)
<wpwrak>
kewl
<wpwrak>
welcomes back the 60/40 eutectic leaded solder :)
<wolfspraul>
I'll ask around a bit more...
<wolfspraul>
maybe some factories are proud to move to a 100% lead-free process? never heard of it though
<kristianpaul>
ah wikireader is awsome my mother really liked it :) (no trouble with classic keyboard)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: of course, the dark side of my environmental footprint would then be all those heavily leaded counterweights ;-)
<wpwrak>
wonders if tuxbrain did anything with them
<kristianpaul>
I need one
<kristianpaul>
my ben fall all the time..
<wpwrak>
i'm actually surprised that nobody seems to complain about this
<kristianpaul>
hmm may be they are taking it like a faeture? :)
<kristianpaul>
that could be an indicador of dailly use of it, on the desk
<kristianpaul>
wich  as pocket computer is hard to realize
<wpwrak>
hmm. if you can make people believe this is a feature, then i think we need a nobel price for marketing, and you're the first to get it :)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: just googled a bit and what I said about manual reworks and RoHS may be wrong.
<wolfspraul>
a good reminder that I need to refresh my RoHS knowledge again, it seems to be constantly evolving (in general tightening)
<wpwrak>
puts the 60/40 leaded solder back into the drawer :-(
<wolfspraul>
ha :-) relax...
<wolfspraul>
there are still many big fat exceptions
<wolfspraul>
it's a moving target
<wolfspraul>
of course the point is not to ever get more creative to define oneself into the exceptions
<wpwrak>
good for customs. so they can spring surprises
<wolfspraul>
most people I have seen that deal with rohs take it very seriously and professionally, it's quite nice actually
<wolfspraul>
on the enforcement side, there is little if any aggression, on the production side, there is little if any cutting corners
<wolfspraul>
the telecommunications industry seems to have been quite active, see exemption 7b for lead
<wolfspraul>
"Lead in solders for servers, storage and storage array systems, network infrastructure equipment for switching, signalling, transmission, and network management for telecommunications"
<wpwrak>
yeah, pretty broad ;-)
<wolfspraul>
so who knows. I still think your manual reworks are totally safe, even with leaded solder.
<wpwrak>
amazingly, no exceptions for automotive
<wolfspraul>
not reworks
<wolfspraul>
manual 'works'
<wolfspraul>
but I need to take this more serious again too, will dig next time I visit a manufacturer.
<wolfspraul>
maybe they are already further than I realize
<wolfspraul>
on that website (seems UK related), it says about enforcement "We will help those that are aiming to comply and pursue vigorously those that intend to flout compliance."
<wpwrak>
repair of "new" (> july 2006) devices is also under the directive
<wpwrak>
there's an exception for demonstration purposes, but the interpretation may be quite narrow, perhaps only for trade shows and such, not even general in-house evaluation
<wpwrak>
well, it's probably okay: "Prototypes for experimentation may be used providing they are not made available on the EU market."
<wpwrak>
the next paragraph is confusing, though
<wpwrak>
"Ultimately only the courts can provide a definitive answer on the meaning of the Regulations," yeah :)
<wpwrak>
we need wikilaws ! then anything with "weasel words" gets deleted ;-)
<wolfspraul>
from what I hear, rohs is not about customs trying to hunt down individual products
<wolfspraul>
that would be totally impossible given the complexity of it
<wolfspraul>
it's about authorities working with the industry
<wolfspraul>
also I think rohs will be tightened more, it's such a big success
<wolfspraul>
so more substances, processes, what not can be attached to it :-)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: what do you think about introducing datasheet pdf urls into boom?
<wpwrak>
i think the feature per se is desirable. semanstics aren't trivial, though.
<wpwrak>
for best effect, the data sheets would come from multiple sources, including distributors.
<wpwrak>
si the digi-key database download would also try to access data sheets, and make them available for the respective digi-key part numbers
<qi-bot>
[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: removed two generated png files, leaving svg originals http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/fb852f7
<wolfspraul>
got it, and sounds good. on the todo list then...
<wpwrak>
yup
<wpwrak>
there are several access paths. e.g., by component reference, a) for the "current" data, b) for historical data.
<wpwrak>
(b) could be outside boom, e.g., just archive a snapshot when doing something with the data)
<wpwrak>
then by item in an order
<wpwrak>
and finally in a yet-to-be-written component browser that would interact with kicad when adding a component and its characteristics in the schematics (or editing, etc.)
<wpwrak>
that's the one that would make carlos happy :)