stebalien changed the topic of #ipfs to: Heads Up: To talk, you need to register your nick! Announcements: go-ipfs 0.4.21 and js-ipfs 0.35 are out! Get them from dist.ipfs.io and npm respectively! | Also: #libp2p #ipfs-cluster #filecoin #ipfs-dev | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | Logs: https://view.matrix.org/room/!yhqiEdqNjyPbxtUjzm:matrix.org/ | Forums: https://discuss.ipfs.io | Code of
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<Swedneck_>
what's the best way of adding large amounts of data to ipfs?
<Swedneck_>
you can pin your stuff on however many services you want
<ShalokShalom>
well, they are still one single point of failure?
<Swedneck_>
or ask others to pin it, or set up your own nodes
<ShalokShalom>
yeah, sure
<Swedneck_>
no
<ShalokShalom>
you know what I mean
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<Swedneck_>
the single point of failure is the gateway for your website, which you can't fix because no web browser supports IPFS
<ShalokShalom>
well, if they are the only service I use, they are a single point of failure
<ShalokShalom>
yeah sure
<Swedneck_>
well yes..
<ShalokShalom>
the javascript version is not enough?
<Swedneck_>
just use more than one? pin it on your desktop?
<ShalokShalom>
And an IPFS browser?
<ShalokShalom>
Like beaker
<Swedneck_>
there is no IPFS browser
<ShalokShalom>
sad
<ShalokShalom>
Why?
<Swedneck_>
firefox does let you use `ipfs://` and `ipns://` if you have ipfs-companion extension installed, however
<Swedneck_>
because making a browser is an Insane amount of work
<ShalokShalom>
The Go implementation could be compiled to WebAssembly soon
<Swedneck_>
it also doesn't help anyone that's not using that specific browser
<ShalokShalom>
sure
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<Swedneck_>
until chrome supports IPFS natively there's no getting around needing HTTP if you want the average person to access your website
<ShalokShalom>
Why do you think the Javascript implementation is insufficient?
<olizilla[m]>
Hashbase acts as a lender of last resort for dat content. Multiple ipfs pinning services offer the same thing for IPFS, and have a free tier. Any ipfs node on the network will cohost any blocks it's fetches
<ShalokShalom>
Dont you think that a complete community based, open source solution is interesting?
<Swedneck_>
<ShalokShalom "Why do you think the Javascript "> that requires users to install an extension
<Swedneck_>
<ShalokShalom "Dont you think that a complete c"> it's just not possible
<ShalokShalom>
why is it possible for dat?
<Swedneck_>
it isn't
<ShalokShalom>
And I thought the js version is working without the extension?
<Swedneck_>
they still need gateways to serve content to people who use chrome or firefox
<ShalokShalom>
why should it need one?
<Swedneck_>
...because chrome/firefox/safari doesn't support DAT
<olizilla[m]>
The ipfs companion web extension let's Firefox and chromium based browsers use ipfs: scheme URLs and serves /ipfs/qmhash URLs via a local ipfs node
<ShalokShalom>
Swedneck: I mean JS-IPFS
<Swedneck_>
hell even with js-ipfs you're still using a local gateway
<ShalokShalom>
Hnn, then I am misinformed
<Swedneck_>
i feel like you lack knowledge about how browsers work
<ShalokShalom>
I got told you need only with the Go implementation a central gateway
<ShalokShalom>
might be
<ShalokShalom>
thanks a lot
<Swedneck_>
<ShalokShalom "I got told you need only with th"> if you just want to host a website on ipfs you only need 1 node hosting the content, and a gateway like https://cloudflare-ipfs.com
<olizilla[m]>
Your questions feel like they are loaded with context, perhaps you could give us some more info on what you're hoping to achieve?
<ShalokShalom>
thanks a lot
<Swedneck_>
and that's only if you want normal users to be able to access it
<ShalokShalom>
all my questions are answered
<ShalokShalom>
sure sure
<ShalokShalom>
thy
<Swedneck_>
if you're fine with only advanced users having access, you can literally just publish the hash of your website's folder
<ShalokShalom>
why is Mozilla not implementing it?
<ShalokShalom>
i think it works wonderfully with webassembly
<Swedneck_>
presumably they have other things to worry about
<Swedneck_>
to be honest firefox seems slightly mismanaged
<Swedneck_>
well i don't think the firefox devs really have much of a motivation for integrating ipfs, they're struggling to stay relevant as it is
<ShalokShalom>
why do you see it this way?
<Swedneck_>
implementing native ipfs support would take away resources that could be used to make the average person move to firefox
<Swedneck_>
<ShalokShalom "why do you see it this way?"> i'm just explaining how mozilla looks at it
<ShalokShalom>
it seems rather simple to implement, compared to its benefits?
<ShalokShalom>
i see
<Swedneck_>
nothing about browsers is simple
<Swedneck_>
they're a god damn mess
<ShalokShalom>
hnn
<ShalokShalom>
thanks
<ShalokShalom>
do you think Servo can change this?
<Swedneck_>
possibly, if firefox's engine become possible to use for other applications then that would most likely lead to more contributions to firefox's code
<ShalokShalom>
the cloudflare service seems awesome
<ShalokShalom>
I already read about it, seems its probably one of the most promising solutions
<ShalokShalom>
you mean like Node?
<Swedneck_>
<ShalokShalom "the cloudflare service seems awe"> really all they do is provide SSL certs for your domain
<Swedneck_>
?
<ShalokShalom>
and gateways?
<Swedneck_>
i'm not sure what you're getting at
<ShalokShalom>
possibly, if firefox's engine become possible to use for other applications then that would most likely lead to more contributions to firefox's code > like Node is useful for desktop and server side dev?
<ShalokShalom>
Node > V8
<Swedneck_>
<ShalokShalom "possibly, if firefox's engine be"> yeah
<ShalokShalom>
Clouodflare seems to provide gateways as well, next to certs
<Swedneck_>
<ShalokShalom "Clouodflare seems to provide gat"> it's an IPFS gateway that serves content with a valid cert for your domain
<ShalokShalom>
fine fine ^-^
<ShalokShalom>
and people can access IPFS pages with their default firefox and chrome, yeah?
<Swedneck_>
it's possible to selfhost it btw, all you need is go-ipfs and some reverse proxy like nginx, and a cert from letsencrypt
<ShalokShalom>
oh cool ^-^
<Swedneck_>
<ShalokShalom "and people can access IPFS pages"> yeah, although it's being served as normal HTTP from a single server
<ShalokShalom>
hnn, can I combine it with some pinning service?
<Swedneck_>
you don't need a pinning service at all, you can just host the content on your desktop
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<Swedneck_>
pinning services just host the content without downtime
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<ShalokShalom>
hnn. I am interested about combining different go-ipfs instances, so we create an alternative to hashbase..
<ShalokShalom>
so, to join forces in order to provide one community based approach
<ShalokShalom>
which we serve on our Pi, Laptops, Servers and so on..
<Swedneck_>
what's the point in centralizing them?
<ShalokShalom>
its not centralizing
<ShalokShalom>
its decentralised
<ShalokShalom>
my go-ipfs instance on the pi is part of a cluster
<ShalokShalom>
so everybody can contribute
<Swedneck_>
?
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<Swedneck_>
that's, uh, already how it works
<ShalokShalom>
oh fine
<ShalokShalom>
So I am hosting content for all the other instances?
<ShalokShalom>
once I setup MY go-ipfs, I help YOU sharing content?
<Swedneck_>
no, you're hosting the content you pin
<Swedneck_>
to help me share content you'd have to fetch the content
<ShalokShalom>
so....
<ShalokShalom>
and fetch automatically all the content that subscribes..?
<ShalokShalom>
thats the idea
<Swedneck_>
that would absolutely flood your storage
<Swedneck_>
not to mention that you might host illegal content like child porn
<ShalokShalom>
yeah sure. of course with balancer.
<ShalokShalom>
and to check, what ever gets hosted?
<ShalokShalom>
as said, this is what hashbase is working on
<Swedneck_>
hashbase just seems like a pinning service
<ShalokShalom>
yeah...
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<ShalokShalom>
thats what I am suggesting
<Swedneck_>
but pinning services already exist..
<ShalokShalom>
not really
<ShalokShalom>
that are very limited
<ShalokShalom>
*they
<Swedneck_>
how so?
<ShalokShalom>
people who are using the Cloudflare gateway are sharing the content?
<ShalokShalom>
without installing the extension
<Swedneck_>
cloudflare is not a pinning service
<ShalokShalom>
with js-ipfs on my side
<ShalokShalom>
I know
<ShalokShalom>
I am not asking this or suggesting this
<Swedneck_>
it's a gateway, something totally difference
<Swedneck_>
different*
<ShalokShalom>
i know
<ShalokShalom>
when I ship content via ipfs and use Cloudflare as the gateway: Is the user acting as a IPFS server?
<olizilla[m]>
You can "pin" files/datasets/any cid to any ipfs node you control. A "pinning service" is where there is an API to ask nodes run by other people to pin those files/datasets/CIDs for you
<ShalokShalom>
oh I see
<Swedneck_>
<ShalokShalom "when I ship content via ipfs and"> no
<olizilla[m]>
Every ipfs node also has and https-to-ipfs gateway built in
<ShalokShalom>
so why?
<ShalokShalom>
I dont see the point of ipfs then
<ShalokShalom>
to me, this is decentralised, not distributed
<Swedneck_>
<Swedneck_ "no"> however you could use js-ipfs on your website to host a temporary node in the browser, kind of like how peertube uses webtorrents to seed videos being viewed
<ShalokShalom>
A user has to install ipfs in order to share content?
<Swedneck_>
uh yes?
<ShalokShalom>
oO
<ShalokShalom>
Your previous sentence suggests the opposite?
<Swedneck_>
until browsers get native support
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<ShalokShalom>
including the case when I use js-ipfs on my homepage
<Swedneck_>
ipfs is "installed" temporarily by the website
<ShalokShalom>
they are still not sharing content?
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<olizilla[m]>
Any request to your https-to-ipfs gateway will result in your node trying to find that content on the ipfs network
<ShalokShalom>
yeah, I should have said "explicitly"
<ShalokShalom>
thanks
<Swedneck_>
they can be if you set it up that way, but it's subject to the browser killing the tab at any point
<ShalokShalom>
olizilla: And which ways are available, to send a request to my gateway specifically?
<ShalokShalom>
Swedneck: Sure
<ShalokShalom>
This is why pinning services..
<Swedneck_>
<ShalokShalom "This is why pinning services.."> not sure what you want, pinning services already exist
<ShalokShalom>
not really.
<ShalokShalom>
this is hardly a replacement for homebase, imho
<Swedneck_>
but homebase is just a pinning service
<ShalokShalom>
i am kinda wondering that the community here is fine with those servicews
<ShalokShalom>
and there is no replacement for ipfs
<ShalokShalom>
all the available services are commercial
<Swedneck_>
i have absolutely no idea what else you want
<ShalokShalom>
hashbase is community based
<Swedneck_>
all you claim to want is already available
<ShalokShalom>
nope
<ShalokShalom>
i have no free, openly accessibly pinning service
<Swedneck_>
<ShalokShalom "all the available services are c"> you are absolutely free to ask others to pin your content
<olizilla[m]>
By default only you can access the http to ipfs gateway that exists on your local ipfs node. Some folks like ipfs.io and cloudflare and Infura and may others make their https-to-ipfs gateways available to the community
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<olizilla[m]>
Any ipfs node can operate as a hashbase like thing
<ShalokShalom>
Swedneck I am asking for an API
<ShalokShalom>
A publicly available one :D
<olizilla[m]>
What we call pinning services are equivalent to hashbase, and there are several, and most have a free tier.
<ShalokShalom>
olizilla: Yeah, I am more asking for an organized way to access those :)
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<ShalokShalom>
I am not asking for a free tier, I am asking for a complete community based thing :)
<olizilla[m]>
Protocol labs also sponsors the ipfs.io gateway which caches all content requested via it for a period of timr
<ShalokShalom>
like hashbase
<ShalokShalom>
I think its kinda ending with using a Raspberry Pi
<olizilla[m]>
There is not just 1 hashbase. We are many hashbases
<ShalokShalom>
and all of them are commercial
<olizilla[m]>
I am gonna be working on tooling to visualise that more clearly
<ShalokShalom>
I have to register..
<ShalokShalom>
they may shut down
<olizilla[m]>
Nope
<ShalokShalom>
interesting?
<ShalokShalom>
why not community based?
<Swedneck_>
actually hashbase is way worse than most pinning services
<ShalokShalom>
might be
<Swedneck_>
only 100MB free and max 10G, for $7 per month
<olizilla[m]>
By community based you mean something like an open-collective pays for the bandwidth and admin time?
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<olizilla[m]>
Sounds like what you want exists, but you want it to be managed by an transparent non-profit?
<ShalokShalom>
more something like torrent
<Swedneck_>
both pinata and eternum are more than 3x as cheap, and temporal blows that out of the water
<ShalokShalom>
yes
<ShalokShalom>
i kinda assumed hashbased is free and unlimited
<ShalokShalom>
my mistake
<olizilla[m]>
Wat
<ShalokShalom>
olizilla: Yeah, that sounds awesome
<ShalokShalom>
dont think ya?
<olizilla[m]>
I would like that
<ShalokShalom>
how could we organize that?
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<Swedneck_>
a transparent pinning service run by the ipfs team would be nice
<olizilla[m]>
It takes effort to set these things up, and there is value in doing a good job of it, so it's is also great that there are professional folks doing that too
<olizilla[m]>
And yes, we are working on it
<ShalokShalom>
fine ^^
<ShalokShalom>
where can I track that?
<olizilla[m]>
Specifically we are working on making the ipfs.io gateway more transparent
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<ShalokShalom>
I see
<shokunin[m]>
I honestly think you guys shouldn’t work on a pinning service
<ShalokShalom>
that gateway is not a pinning service
<shokunin[m]>
I just want ipfs and ipns to work well
<olizilla[m]>
So folks can see how much it serving, and get some idea of how long content is cached (not a pinning service)
<ShalokShalom>
i see
<shokunin[m]>
Adding a file there should be as easy as drag and drop, and instantaneous
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<ShalokShalom>
shokunin[m]: do you think these developments could infect the already existing code?
<ShalokShalom>
or are you just scared about the potential loose of development time?
<shokunin[m]>
The way pinned files go in this weird .ipfs folder that’s semi hidden, and the files are in small chunks and you can’t just use them, it sucks
<olizilla[m]>
Indeed, I want to make it easier for lots of folks to set up pinning service and collaborative clusters
<shokunin[m]>
Why can’t I just serve the actual files?
<ShalokShalom>
collaborative clusters.. that a nice wording
<shokunin[m]>
Why can’t the files I pin just show up in a normal folder as normal files?
<olizilla[m]>
Agree, that is weird, but it doesn't cause significant issues right now
<olizilla[m]>
It can be better
<olizilla[m]>
Let's not thrash that out now as well
<olizilla[m]>
See y'all soon! I'm gonna get some more Sunday
<shokunin[m]>
I think it’s actually a major issue, but the top issue for me remains the speed of resolution
<olizilla[m]>
Also, thank you @swedneck:getepona.com for clarifying a bunch o things!
<Swedneck_>
np!
<Swedneck_>
and yeah i agree that resolution times are somewhat horrible ATM
<olizilla[m]>
Yes!
<ShalokShalom>
olizilla you helped me also thanks a lot :)
<Swedneck_>
you pretty much need to connect directly to a node to have things be bearable
<olizilla[m]>
There are a particular nasty confluence of bugs and a spike in network size
<olizilla[m]>
Hey great ShalokShalom!
<Swedneck_>
hm, for some reason i'm only connected to 150 nodes rn
<ShalokShalom>
is there some central source of truth which I can follow about this development?
<ShalokShalom>
you said there is some development going on about a ipfs.org organized pinning service
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<olizilla[m]>
I was unclear... the ipfs team are not working on. pinning. We're improving the gateway, and I want to make it publically observable. Good sources of info are the ipfs weekly newsletter, and the ipfs weekly video call
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<NatoBoram[m]>
shokunin To help a bit with the speed of resolution, you can ask a bunch of gateways for your content like this :