stebalien changed the topic of #ipfs to: Heads Up: To talk, you need to register your nick! Announcements: go-ipfs 0.4.21 and js-ipfs 0.35 are out! Get them from dist.ipfs.io and npm respectively! | Also: #libp2p #ipfs-cluster #filecoin #ipfs-dev | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | Logs: https://view.matrix.org/room/!yhqiEdqNjyPbxtUjzm:matrix.org/ | Forums: https://discuss.ipfs.io | Code of
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<stebalien>
Does anyone here use the go-ipfs writable gateway feature? rklaehn (IRC)?
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<SoreGums>
wuld other projects setup their own networks or join the existing DHT of ipfs and offer different services? that seems to be a solid feature of the libp2p stack: network has peers, peers can say they offer x service, other peers can find peers offer x service
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<stebalien>
SoreGums: yes.
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<raucao>
i mean, we have *cough* ipfs, but if that's too unstable, why no bittorrent links
<raucao>
we have perfectly working, performant solutions for this kind of p2p file transfer
<raucao>
even more hilarious is using microsoft github for the distribution of simple pdf files
<raucao>
(sry for the criticism, but it really gets me when people in decentralization projects use centralized *and* proprietary platforms for no reason other than convenience, but thereby making actually downloading the videos much harder for the target audience)
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<raucao>
oh, and btw, there's also peertube
<raucao>
here's an instance dedicated to conference vids https://conf.tube/
<raucao>
(so people can comment, fav, share, etc. on the fediverse)
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<npfoss[m]2>
I think one reason for keeping all that stuff on the 'standard' centralized platforms is that it makes it way more accessible to people new to the space, which is really important because those people vastly outnumber people well versed in decentralization who are used to the slightly less refined dapp alternatives.
<logoilab[m]>
There's also d.tube which is pretty mature blockchain based YouTube clone. Based on steem. Probably not distributed enough to me but still
<npfoss[m]2>
I'm definitely in favor of mirroring content on both at the very least, though
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<logoilab[m]>
Actually the about page says it's steem+ipfs so cool I thought it was all steem
<swedneckpermaweb>
videos should definitely just be put on as many platforms as possible
<swedneckpermaweb>
but i don't think using gitlab instead of github affects much, github can keep a mirrored repo for disoverability
<swedneckpermaweb>
hell i think gitlab makes it possible to poth push and pull from github
<logoilab[m]>
Yea my setup is github. Gitlab with automatic sync. And local copy
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<swedneckpermaweb>
selfhosted gitlab would be even better but i definitely understand why that would be difficult
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<logoilab[m]>
Yea you need an entire cluster to do that unfortunately
<swedneckpermaweb>
the ipfs community centering around matrix would also be nice, as it's decentralized
<logoilab[m]>
There's also orbit.io
<swedneckpermaweb>
or maybe orbitchat >:D
<swedneckpermaweb>
or maybe orbit >:D
<logoilab[m]>
<logoilab[m] "There's also orbit.io"> Sorry orbit.chat
<swedneckpermaweb>
matrix-orbit bridge when?
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<logoilab[m]>
Orbit is a little unstable to me. The rooms tend to disappear if you leave them long enough
<Swednec8>
yeah i don't think orbit is really production ready yet
<logoilab[m]>
Let's also not forget the matrix hack that had us all replacing our keys
<Swednec8>
that was matrix.org
<logoilab[m]>
Which affected every user of riot.im
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<Swednec8>
no, every user of matrix.org
<logoilab[m]>
Cause auth is done by matrix.org. Auth is still centralized
<Swednec8>
i believe decentralized bridges are an unsolved problem
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<Swednec8>
if you know how to bridge things without relying on a single server, please let us know
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<logoilab[m]>
I can see why no one has figured that out. Sounds pretty hard.
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<swedneckpermaweb>
i think they have some ideas for partial bridge decentralization, but yeah..
<swedneckpermaweb>
at least with matrix room contents are decentralized, unlike IRC (yes irc has federation, no one uses it)
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<npfoss[m]2>
isn't matrix just federated? because you still rely on someone like matrix.org keeping a server up to relay things to your client (and end up with the recent hack, etc)
<swedneckpermaweb>
i'm using permaweb.io right now and if matrix.org where to go down i'd just be unable to communicate with users on that server
<swedneckpermaweb>
communication with other servers like privacytools.io would be completely unaffected
<npfoss[m]2>
right, so federated?
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<swedneckpermaweb>
yes, but you implied i rely on matrix.org to get messages from all servers
<npfoss[m]2>
oh hm I didn't know that
<Mikaela>
and if you weren't already a Matrix user, you couldn't register on any server unless you knew the secret that identity server, email and password are optional
<Mikaela>
s/password/phone/g
<npfoss[m]2>
ah sorry swedneck, didn't mean that. I was using it as an example
<Mikaela>
oh and if matrix.org went down, you wouldn't also chat with us IRC users
<swedneckpermaweb>
honestly i blame freenode for that one
<swedneckpermaweb>
if freenode allowed anyone to use their own bridge we could just selfhost it
<Mikaela>
and as the result there would be many people with multiple clones per bridge
<npfoss[m]2>
well that's also a different issue, because bridged stuff is only as private as the least private platform
<swedneckpermaweb>
clones?
<Mikaela>
I would rather blame matrix.org/matrix-appservice-irc for not letting people choose which bridge they want to use, as currently if I join #irc:matrix.org and some KDE room, I have two connections to freenode, while I could just tell the room that I want to prefer one specific bridge
<Mikaela>
duplicate connections
<npfoss[m]2>
(he says from discord, currently that least private platform)
<swedneckpermaweb>
mikaela what do you mean
<swedneckpermaweb>
you're only using one bridge per room
<Mikaela>
I would argue IRC is currently the least private platform as this channel isn't mode +S which would enforce TLS for transport encryption (and then require trusting that the s2s connections are encrypted)
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<swedneckpermaweb>
of course if you have one room using matrix.org and one using kde.org bridge, there are going to be 2 connections
<swedneckpermaweb>
how else could it possibly work?
<Mikaela>
swedneckpermaweb, yes, if I join 10 rooms that have a different bridge each, I am going to get 10 different IRC connections. Why wouldn't I be able to specify that I want to use one bridge for all rooms?
<swedneckpermaweb>
because the bridge is the same for all users in the room?
<Mikaela>
My sympathies are with freenode on this, they have to send all messages to all ghosts and PING PONG them all
<Mikaela>
isn't that kind of design flaw?
<swedneckpermaweb>
no?
<swedneckpermaweb>
how could it work any differently
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<Mikaela>
I don't know in practice, but I think the idea would be better than the current system
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<swedneckpermaweb>
well, the way it currently works actually works
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<swedneckpermaweb>
if someone implements another architecture for bridges then great, we can all switch to that
<Mikaela>
except that it can result in duplicate connections and is likely a reason why freenode doesn't allow anyone to use their own bridge
<Mikaela>
what were the actual words freenode staff used when you requested a connection exception?
<swedneckpermaweb>
i haven't requested anything
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<kivutar>
about decentralized bridges, have you thought about having 4 or 5 bridges, that need to reach a quorum to agree on a batch of entries and seal them in a block like a PoA blockchain does for transactions?
<Mikaela>
What is the source for freenode not allowing anyone to run their own bridge reaching to this conclusion? 2019-07-23T16:27:33+0300 <swedneckpermaweb> if freenode allowed anyone to use their own bridge we could just selfhost it
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<swedneckpermaweb>
it could be something a matrix.org person said, in which case it's not feasible to find the source
<Swednec8>
kivutar: you still need a single server to send the messages
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<kivutar>
Swednec8 each clients could pull them instead?
<kivutar>
I'm not familiar with matrix and bridges, so don't take what I say seriously haha
<Swednec8>
that would make bridging to something like discord impossible
<Swednec8>
or at least really really difficult
<swedneckpermaweb>
:P
<raucao>
half the people in here are already on matrix, so i don't see why there should be any additional action taken. irc is perfectly fine. slack would be awful
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<raucao>
but anyway, whoever has all the sources and rights to those vids: want to upload them to conf.tube, or provide magnet links?
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<raucao>
or DAT, or whatever
<raucao>
if ipfs is supposed to work with video, then at least a mirror would make sense of course. not sure if that's an intended use case in the first place though
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<raucao>
would be nice to be able to copypasta some kind of hash list for easy pinning btw
<raucao>
like, when someone wants to mirror something
<swedneckpermaweb>
ipfs works with video
<swedneckpermaweb>
videos are just files
<raucao>
yes, but what about chunked transfer
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<swedneckpermaweb>
you mean streaming video?
<raucao>
will it transfer from the beginning and can my video player start playing before the whole thing has been downloaded?
<swedneckpermaweb>
iirc it works but some gateways disable it due to piracy
<raucao>
and how do i see download progress on a 1GB vid
<raucao>
cool, so the go-ipfs http gateway supports byte range requests then
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<swedneckpermaweb>
not sure what that means
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<raucao>
it means if you open the video in your browser and it shows you video player, if you skip ahead it will do an http requests asking the server to send the bytes at that offset
<raucao>
so you don't have to download the whole video to jump around in it
<swedneckpermaweb>
ah
<swedneckpermaweb>
well i'm testing right now
<kivutar>
the video streaming works yes
<raucao>
i would guess it only works once the gateway has the whole file tho
<raucao>
give me a random video hash, and i'll test with my own gateway
<swedneckpermaweb>
bear in mind it has to be a format like .mp4 or .webm, .mkv just prompts to download the file
<raucao>
sure
<swedneckpermaweb>
(that's just a random video i had on my drive btw)
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<swedneckpermaweb>
yeah streaming works fine even on other gateways
<raucao>
as expected, it seems to first have to download the whole thing to the local node
<swedneckpermaweb>
including jumping forward in the video
<raucao>
got a gateway timeout
<raucao>
lol
<raucao>
cloudflare be like: "ipfs: video streaming is not allowed"
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<swedneckpermaweb>
different issue
<swedneckpermaweb>
if you can get a direct connection to a gateway node it should work
<swedneckpermaweb>
i.e. `ipfs swarm connect /address/to/gateway/node`
<raucao>
that's not what i'm saying
<swedneckpermaweb>
try using permaweb.io/ipfs, you can connect to `/dnsaddr/permaweb.io`
<raucao>
the gateway that is serving needs to download the whole thing first
<raucao>
it can't stream from another ipfs node
<raucao>
so streaming is only a thing in the http gateway api
<swedneckpermaweb>
worked fine without it having to download the whole thing for me
<raucao>
not in ipfs itself
<raucao>
btw, that video isn't long enough to test
<raucao>
finally got it, and it's only 28 seconds long
<raucao>
try a conference video for a 45 minute talk
<raucao>
or even just 15 minutes
<raucao>
in HD
<raucao>
i don't think ipfs is a great match for such content
<swedneckpermaweb>
will do
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<Swednec8>
okay i tried a 20min video this time, since it took ages to load i guess it had to load the entire file before showing anything
<Swednec8>
at least it loaded somewhat quickly and jumping through the video is instant
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<Swednec8>
i realize i just contradicted myself, i meant ages to load relative to the previous video i tried
<Swednec8>
although trying with another gateway it didn't have to load long at all, and instead it takes a fraction of a second to load when i jump through the video..
<kivutar>
did you try from your own gateway?
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<swedneckpermaweb>
just did that, it loads instantly and jumping doesn't load at all
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<kivutar>
maybe the .ipfs/config has something to do with this
<swedneckpermaweb>
are there any plans to separate dnslink and ipns?
<swedneckpermaweb>
like instead of using `/ipns/domain.tld` it'd be `/dnslink/domain.tld`
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<agsv>
can I measure the popularity of my pins?
<ZerXes>
you mean like how peers have fetched the different pins from your node?
<swedneckpermaweb>
hmm, i don't get why everyone's talking about using `/dns` for dnslink
<swedneckpermaweb>
you'd think `/dns` would be used as a multiaddr path for general dns stuff, like `/dns/tld/domain/subdomain/recordtype` or something
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<aschmahmann[m]>
swedneck:permaweb.io: I think that the case you just mentioned is covered by `dnsaddr`. Although it's not unreasonable to ask/assume that `dns` would alias to something like `dnsaddr` over `dnslink`. Feel free to comment in one of the issues.
<aschmahmann[m]>
Yep you're right. I'm not super familiar with that area of the stack but it looks like dns4/6 seem do IP lookups, but dnsaddr does a TXT lookup
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<swedneckpermaweb>
what i'm talking about isn't specifically using `/dns` for ipfs, but as the multiaddr for doing stuff with dns records
<aschmahmann[m]>
I feel like I've seen an issue or something suggesting `/dnslink` which seems like the obvious thing to do. `/dns` definitely feels like a shortcut/alias that may cause problems in the long run
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<swedneckpermaweb>
yeah
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