<eligrey>
i don't understand why CC no dervivatives even exists
<eligrey>
might as well assert full copyright protection
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
er,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
seriously?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so people can use your work, because you want to release it out there into the world, even if you're uncomfortable participating fully in the open-source/remix culture.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
butts
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: since alexgordon isn't here, do you want to try and sanity-check my rewritten mess-of-an-algorithm?
<alexgordon>
eligrey: ?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I mean, that's a questionable proposition, given that you're barely sane and all,
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: I said I was here
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I didn't see your *single character* response ;P
<alexgordon>
I was being lazy :P
<alexgordon>
dammit eligrey gonna have to ignore you to save my tabcomplete
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-two people out of this entire channel
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: NUCK and SEPHR
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-4-letter people who frequent this channel
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: nuck, locks, and sephr
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what the fuck
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-factoid 4-letter people who frequent this channel
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: Popularity: 1, last changed by: elliottcable, 300ſ 183mſ ago
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
That was *me*!?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
apparently, 300 days ago, I couldn't count.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: which bit do you want me to read?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
the link
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
goes to `next()`
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I renamed `advance()` for the purposes of this spec, because I stopped trying to disentangle it into multiple pieces. Now it's just one huge, but straightforward, algorithm that Does Everything™.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
will fix that in the next re-write, but for now, I just wanted it to be complete and coherent.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: LOL your profile pic
<purr>
LOL
<eligrey>
do you have any public draft specs i can view?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Holy FUCK, dude
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
who just joined
<eligrey>
also are you talking about another programming language you're making
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
because you're not “Anonymous snake” or “Anonymous rabbit” or “dolphin” or “whale” or whatever,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
the only coloured anonymous-animal icon I've ever seen up there.
<alexgordon>
nyan
<alexgordon>
nah it's not me
<eligrey>
yeah i've seen it once before in gdrive
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
eligrey: same programming language. I abandoned Paws, and programming as a whole, months ago, but I'm kinda life-bored right now … so I'm taking some time to read over my abandoned spec-work, improve it a bit.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
call it an idle pas-time to remind myself how much I hate computer science.
<eligrey>
you should experiment with vr ux
<eligrey>
i'd like to see what you might come up with
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hm?
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PLejeck is now known as nuck
<eligrey>
its like designing a language except the language is me
<eligrey>
ELLIOTTCABLE: virtual reality ux
<whitequark>
fucking freecad is a fucking fuck
<eligrey>
s/me/your body/
<whitequark>
it just crashed and took everything I done with it
<eligrey>
also did you hear about rift DK2 supporting mounted leaps?
<eligrey>
since you were all into the leap a couple years ago
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Who what when where?
<eligrey>
the rift dk2 has a usb port on the side so you can glue a leap to the center of the front of the headset
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Rift dk2?
<eligrey>
devkit 2
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Oh, oculus rift. Sorry, forgot that's what it was called.
<eligrey>
combine this with myo armbands and you have full positional arm detection with very accurate/fast finger tip detection in front of the headset
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Meh. Not really my thing.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
In fact, it's exactly the *opposite* of my thing.
<whitequark>
for once I agree with ec, kvm is the best interface ever created
<eligrey>
i'll be experimenting with ui concepts for it once i get my DK2
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
KVM? Lolno.
<purr>
Lolno
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
The best user-interface is your couch.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
your shirt.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
your doorknob.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
your dog's leash, your pillow, your steering-wheel.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Interfaces that disappear are clearly the future. Not ones that, beyond having to go to a computer or console, but actually having to *don a special device* …
<whitequark>
that isn't going to happen.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ones that don't just inadvertently cause you to disconnect from the outside world, but ones that actively *require you to do so* …
<whitequark>
I mean, perfect ability to track you at every single second you exist, and no screen to shove a fuckton of ads on?
<whitequark>
modality is awesome. modality allows you to focus and concentrate on whatever you're supposed to be doing.
<whitequark>
when I want to eat, I prepare my table. when I want to draw, mill, or cut, I prepare my workbench.
* ELLIOTTCABLE
shrugs
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<whitequark>
when I want to do something in information-space, I sure as hell want to prepare whatever gate to information-space I'm going to be using, modally.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
not into big philosophical discussions, atm. feeling rather productive. feels good. going back to spec-work.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
last comment: Glass is *much* more in the right direction, IMO, than Rift.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: let me know what you see/think. Does that line up with your previous understanding from reading the spec?
<whitequark>
the idiot who wrote the last entry in particular. should just be tossed to a furnace.
<whitequark>
*shrug*
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh, the cable debate is totally a thing
<whitequark>
I'm well aware
<whitequark>
I'm also of opinion that people with too low IQ should be banned from life
<whitequark>
where do I sign up to donate my $1000 for that?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
They, at least, were discussing *actual analog audio cables*.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Scroll down and read the posts about $500 mains cables.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Or, worse, fucking USB or HDMI cables. oh gods.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Well, I hear there's an assassination Kickstarter clone somewhere on the torweb
<whitequark>
what? the last entry is about "digital cables sounding better"
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
OH
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
mis-read that
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh gods
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so much worse ;_;
<whitequark>
you see, there IS some truth that a $500 cable sounds better than an identical $5 one
<whitequark>
because that's how brains work
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: I'd love to see you start a blog where you “review” these cables and devices by breaking them down, and showing what's inside them. :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I can't *fathom* what on earth the chips and boards in those cords' terminators could possibly be for.
<whitequark>
but implying that they result in different waveforms being reproduced in case of a digital cable requires such an absurd level of willful malicious ignorance I don't think I would winch before putting a bullet in their brain.
<whitequark>
(terminators) well... will you pay for them?
<whitequark>
if you do, I might actually go through the trouble of completely reverse-engineering the assemblies
<whitequark>
down to sanding-down-the-PCBs to see the traces on all layers
<whitequark>
and decapping the ICs
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: or go straight to next level: wine.
<whitequark>
used gas chromatography machine: $10,000 on eBay.
<whitequark>
shoving absence of any correlation between experts' reviews and wine constituents: priceless.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
This is why I like scotch.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Unreasonably loud-ass differences between single-malt releases, not some stupid fancy shit you have to make up on the spot to describe faint, fleeting differences …
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
… a field where the *middle-ground* single-malts, in terms of price, are universally accepted as the most easy-drinking, straight-up delicious ones …
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(as opposed to the expensive thing being the coveted thing)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“his has good flesh.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
dying
<whitequark>
now someone just needs to go to a wine tasting whatever
<whitequark>
with a google glass
<whitequark>
and read that out loud and see if anyone even notices
<whitequark>
I bet you $100 no one will
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
best plan evah
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
In fact, I mildly want to release this as Glassware, now.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“Wine Tasting Tutor” or something.
<whitequark>
do it
<purr>
<locks> * notes to everyone, even elliott asks how the fuck does Paws work
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
thanks, locls
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
somebody drag locks back in here, and make him stop inexplicably hating me.
<whitequark>
FUCKING FREECAD ARRAGGHGH
<whitequark>
SDFSLDKFSDF
<whitequark>
I hate software in general
<whitequark>
but I hate EDA software on another fucking level
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: did you die?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: or get laid?
<alexgordon>
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
die or dial, only a couple characters off.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: ok all done
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: what did you want
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Couple things
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
in specific, feedback on the writeup of that next() algorithm. It's rather tangly and long and ewwey, but it *should* be complete.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
thus, enough, (assuming you can comprehend it despite messiness,) to direct you in your implementation.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and, in general, your attention and love and assistance with this whole process <3
glowcoil has joined #elliottcable
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
glowcoil!
<alexgordon>
glowcoil!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you're back on the irssi host? I'm surprised
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
when did that happen?
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: oh man, I'd have to find my implementation
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: eh. do you *need* to use it, to review it?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'd rather you ignore your old implementation, 'cuz I'm about to dive into writing on the shit we never got to.
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: tmux is being a fucking bitch
<alexgordon>
mmmm popcorn
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
in which case you'll have an excellent chance to start over with a *concise, sane* and above all *complete* specification to follow.
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: like, the reason to use tmux w irssi is so that it's *still open* when you ssh in again
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: and it hasn't stayed open like the last 3 times
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: mmm my implementation is more like a reference implementation
<alexgordon>
for myself
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: tbh your spec is actually saner than the C99 spec
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: also yes <3 burial
<alexgordon>
plainer english
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: which burial u listenin 2
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: d'awww love u lotz
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
glowcoil: haven't listened to burial in probably a solid year
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
my tastes have moved on, a bit. Which is really sad.
<glowcoil>
:c
* alexgordon
is eating so much popcorn you couldn't imagine
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It's like the time I realized I didn't really listen to any of my beloved classics anymore, and mostly reveled in rap and linkin park. >,>
<glowcoil>
burial is still literally my #1 favorite artist, at all
<glowcoil>
no one is better
<glowcoil>
got alexgordon listening to rival dealer ep the other day haha
<glowcoil>
i mean tastes shift around but often i come back to things
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: I really like trip hop and stuff
<glowcoil>
probably not permament
<alexgordon>
it's very close to jazz
<glowcoil>
alexgordon: mhm
<glowcoil>
yeah
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<alexgordon>
in terms of emphasising sounds over lyrics
<glowcoil>
yeah
<alexgordon>
I can never fucking understand what people say in lyrics, so they don't do anything for me
<glowcoil>
i feel like ther's a *lot* in common between jazz and the whole type of electronci music including trip hop and burial and stuff
<alexgordon>
yeah for sure
<glowcoil>
like i feel like those two things are what i personally connect with the most
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Trip hop <3<3<3<3<3<3<3
Poindextra is now known as kimhorne
<glowcoil>
there is a burial song that samples "teardrop"
<glowcoil>
:p
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
glowcoil: link. now.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
before I *explode*.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
kimhorne: 'allo!
<kimhorne>
hello!
<alexgordon>
what's a kimhorne?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Here's, basically, my belief system:
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I have trouble believing there's such a thing as an *invalid* reason for attraction / disattraction.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: are we talking about physics or fucking?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
With some things, though, your words are spot-on, probably moreso than you intended them: “You should ask yourself why.” With some attractions or disattractions, I would imagine that it's important to be excruciatingly introspective, and make sure there's not bigotry at play.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: a kimhorne is a twitter, and also a hair. sometimes glasses.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: ah, so like me but without the glasses
<kimhorne>
mostly glasses and tattoos.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
my own example: I've *never* been attracted to black girls. (Black guys, sure, but not black girls.) I have no idea why.
* alexgordon
is 94.9% hair
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
But, at the very least, I'm convinced it's not a larger bigotry at play; it's a simple mechanic of interest and attraction.
<alexgordon>
so we ARE talking about fucking
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but I've never talked to a black girl *about* that, so it's largely echo-chamber philosophy;
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hence this conversation being of interest to me:
<kimhorne>
and I think that's perfectly fair. Attraction isn't a science and there are all kinds of reasons to be attracted to folks...
<kimhorne>
but if you find yourself looking at someone and saying "I'd be attracted to them except..." then you might want to look closer?
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you've got to remember that "black americans" != "black people" in general...
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what do you think, about somebody who claims (and seems) to be otherwise unbigoted, expressing a lack of attraction to post-GRS people of their otherwise-claimed gender-of-attraction?
<kimhorne>
as a blanket statement, without qualification or exception? It's PROBABLY rooted in bigotry
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
mmmmm.
<alexgordon>
black americans are the children of slaves, they were chosen to be strong and fit, which (unfortunately) favours male attractiveness over female attractiveness
<kimhorne>
like, if you're attracted to them otherwise and that's what's holding you back?
<kimhorne>
whaaaat the fuck
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
kimhorne: ignore alexgordon.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: stop scaring away the visitors. ಠ_ಠ
<alexgordon>
?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you pissed off somebody yesterday, too, who was that
<alexgordon>
I think that was you ELLIOTTCABLE
<alexgordon>
you pissed off malia
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh, the conversation with glowcoil and, uh, rojoroboto, about gender diversity
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
yeah, I pissed off malia, not what I meant
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
kimhorne: I don't know, can anybody ever say “I'd be attracted to them *except* …”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
actually, I think that's rather your point. So I definitely agree, there.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: anyway my point was that it's probably not about skin color per se
<kimhorne>
well, imagine (as this is OFTEN the case) that you were attracted to someone and then found out
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
If you're *noticing attraction*, and having to except it and make excuses for it to yourself, then there's almost certainly bigotry at play.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
i.e. having some reason to deny yourself that attraction
<kimhorne>
yep!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
yeah. that case. exactly.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but, my point:
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what of someone making blanket statements *from experience*, instead of from bigotry? how can you tell the two apart, if at all?
<kimhorne>
well, that's kinda bigotry in a nutshell isnt it? Extrapolating to the whole population characteristics observed in a sample?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(that is, somebody trying to convey ‘I've never found myself attracted to trans people,’ as opposed to ‘I will never be attracted to a trans person’ … but with the ambiguous phrasings of “I'm not attracted to trans people”)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Not if you're extrapolating *your own* behavior, though. I suppose, at worst, that's bigotry against yourself.
<kimhorne>
huh. Good point. :)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Mmmm. That brings up another question, though.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Anyway.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
kimhorne: awesome of you to take time to educate and discuss. I always value that.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
You're welcome to hang around for a bit, if alexgordon doesn't bigot in your general direction. #everythingisaverb
<kimhorne>
Another question?
* alexgordon
still doesn't understand what he said wrong
<whitequark>
"extrapolating to the whole population characteristics observed in a sample" isn't bigotry, it's... basic statistics?
<kimhorne>
You caught me on a good day. :) Normally I'm all RAWR
<whitequark>
cherry-picking only those characteristics that reinforce your preexisting beliefs probably is, though
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: that's what bigotry is, though. Applying statistics to individuals.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Basically, “being judgmental.”
<alexgordon>
I thought bigotry was doing what your parents told you
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Everyone does it, I do truly believe so. But I also believe it's fundamentally wrong.
<glowcoil>
welllll i have to go :c
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It's a large part of what makes life, *life*. Or, I suppose, sentience.
<glowcoil>
hopefully tmux stays open this time
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: if statistics says avoiding black people will make my life longer, that's what I'm going to do. and it'd be pretty hard to convince me otherwise
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
If five dog-shaped animals try and bite a cat, the cat will always screech and run from dog-shaped animals.
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: o7
<glowcoil>
whitequark: statistics literally doesn't say that?
<glowcoil>
?
<whitequark>
glowcoil: I have no idea
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
If five dog-shaped animals try and bite a person, the person *can choose* to give the sixth dog a chance.
<glowcoil>
whitequark: idk just seemed like a weird statement to make
<kimhorne>
I'm most likely to be murdered by family so I probably should avoid them all. lol.
<purr>
lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
The human animal is inherently bigoted by their own fear. Overcoming that is what makes us human, and what makes us amazing.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
shaddup purr
<kimhorne>
probably murdered in my own house too so I should move.
<whitequark>
kimhorne: if cost of avoiding all families wasn't greater, yeah, that's what you probably should do
<glowcoil>
o7 each
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
glowcoil: goodbye lovely buttons
<alexgordon>
xD get a room
<alexgordon>
or don't. I'm not even sure that glowcoil is road legal
<kimhorne>
gotta jet myself. Apple pie wont eat itself. Toodles!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
kimhorne: o7
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
glowcoil: you have terrible timing
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
glowcoil: was going to make you read my revised spec-work from the last three days
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
finally came together and got over my confusion.
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<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: sry <3 :'(
<glowcoil>
byr
<glowcoil>
bye
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
byr bby
<joelteon>
what do you call unique permutations
<joelteon>
er wait no
<joelteon>
it's uh
<joelteon>
if you have a sample of 16
<joelteon>
or
<joelteon>
a dataset of 16
<joelteon>
how do you choose all the unique samples of 4 from it
<alexgordon>
joelteon: you have to be more specific
<alexgordon>
joelteon: all the subsets of length 4?
<joelteon>
yes
<alexgordon>
joelteon: that would be 4-combinations